Why Couldn't SMN summon everyting like Bahamut?

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

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I'm really not sure what you mean by "Abyssea powerful". Do you mean SMN actually having gear that enhances its functionality (the pet), like every other single job? Because that only started to happen at about this time, and that was nothing to do with Abyssea as a concept - that was to do with developers finally discovering that pet jobs need "Pet: X" stats on gear. I also honestly don't feel that "grouping era" has any meaning in this context. I mean, I've been playing XI today in a party of 6 doing an event. Yesterday I was in a full alliance doing a linkshell event (in which we had two SMNs, both focusing on DD). I was in a capacity points party (functionally similar to exp) on Sunday with six people. I also feel obliged to point out that Abyssea was seven years ago. Fields of Valor was a thing in 2008.

They definitely got SMN wrong in XI for a while. It was fixed by giving them functional equipment and a few changes to potency, not by altering the fundamental premise of the job. That's why I take exception when people cite XI as a reason that XIV SMN can't be pet focused.

Will stop talking about XI now. Apologies for slight derailment, even if it was intended to be relevant to XIV SMN ideas...

Honestly ffXI summoner is why i can't play FFXIV summoner. I feel in XI it was done better and in XIV it's a glorified BLM, and i already lvled BLM don't wanna lvl a second one that has a pet. But that just how I personally feel about the class here compared to XI.

In XI, people only really used it for Garuda's burst until Alexander's Perfect Defense burns became a thing. After that, they became a one trick pony. Before Alex and Abyssea, you could easily do without a summoner in leveling, merit parties and in end game. I don't know why so many people have such fond memories of it.

It's sorta similar to the XIV communities recollections of XI RDM being shrouded by nostalgia. You weren't even a RDM. You were a buff bot with enfeebling skills in end game. You spent most of your time as a back up healer otherwise. They told you to put your Joyeuse away because your paltry attacks fed the mobs TP. End Game tank RDM became a thing? They gutted it and reduce the enmity generation on all of your enfeebles.

Anyways, if we were to get a change to SMN, FF Dissidia Yuna is a great reference. She still interacted with her enemy whilst using the summons as a means of attacking. It was pretty cool to play with.

Garuda's Predator Claw, Leviathan's Spinning Dive, Titan's Mountain Buster(mostly Sea HNMs) and (occasionally) Diabolos' Nether Blast all had a place in HNMLS activity depending on the target. On top of Fenrir's Ecliptic Howl for getting NIN tanks eva and dps acc where it needed to be and sometimes clutch healing with Carbuncle's Healing Ruby II my time in XI proved to be pretty diverse though I admit this might be only because it was the endgame scene (Ragnarok). This was all before the Abyssea changes because I had to leave the game about 1/3 into WotG but it was a good time when I wasn't having to main heal in merit parties to repad my XP bar to prevent level downs during HNMLS activity.

I recall usage for Fenrir, Garuda for the Sky/Dynamis activity we did. Fenrir for Ward and most Garuda for Rage (they'd probably use her for ward too if the haste wasn't terrible back then).

Ifrit wasn't really utilized for his buffing. Ramuh was pretty useless. I don't recall our group really using Diablos post CoP. You may have had different experiences from me. I don't even recall avid usage of Shiva or Carbuncle for my group either.

SMN wasn't too hot in ToA either in regards to Salvage, Nyzul. I think they were at least picked up in Einherjar. I fell out of world HNMs when Chimera, Hydra and Cerberus were out so i can't really comment there.

Like you, I left in WotG and came back late into Abyssea. Then I played until seekers before I quit again. I do recall summoner shooting up to god tier with SCH when embrava and perfect defense became a thing. That was definitely when they hit their prime. Every party wanted a smn for burns.

I just want to add a little bit further to my first post: I care not for the pet aspect that SMN currently have. In my opinion, that should go to the creation of another class like beast master. My wish fulfillment is to play a transient style SMN. I don't want Ifrit or Garuda to stay permanently on the field until they die or get recalled. Ideally, I'd rather see them pop in for a few seconds (sized scaled down of course but detailed), culminate their attack into their signature move and then leave. Furthermore, to see this come true for basically all Primals you encounter as SMN would make my day.


But I have to live in the reality that S.E. will stick to the current SMN formula. Which is fine. I'll take my wins where I can get them, in this case being that awesome looking transient Bahamut.

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Originally Posted by Arutan

I prefer not, thanks, WHM spamming holy on the screen is already a pain but now imagine 10 summon of that size on the same place. Yay.

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I was just thinking that, even tho I do main smn on one of my alts, the moment I saw it in the video, I literally asked myself how annoying it will be for others or if I am going to cause a dc for any of my party members, because their pc's can't handle that. But then again, it's new - it's big - it's blue and it's bahamut and I would be damned for not getting excited about that. But would i want it as a actual pet? No thank you, as I stated many times prior, I wish SE would remove that whole pet system all together because it's an absolute horrible design to begin with.

Maybe they can have egi-glamour for Bahamut, turning him into Ramuh and so on...

I just hope like many other fellow summoners that all Egis will become like bahamut eventually.

Sorry if someone brought up this idea, I just skimmed through this thread quickly & morning coffee hasn't kicked in.

I think the egis should stay, but have an 'avatar' version of their own that doesn't have all the perquisites of the bahamut one (as they are lesser primals). Once you have 3 aether stacks you have a choice, DWT, or garuda/titan/ifrit avatar mode. Store up for the big one, or use it now for a lesser primal avatar.

I'm kinda attached to the egis for overworld stuff/PotD tanking/insert other, so I don't really want them to go away.

I like the idea of having a regular summon that you swap out for an 'ultimate summon' once you're powered up enough. It's similar to ideas I've posted myself and seen posted by others quite a few times tbh, so I'm very pleased with this direction.

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Originally Posted by Mature

I just hope like many other fellow summoners that all Egis will become like bahamut eventually.

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A trance glamour would be nice to replace the Bahamut trance with a different primal while keeping the system intact. Still, I'm very happy with what we are about to get.

I think one of the issues Summoners have is, yes we keep getting these shiny new Bahamut things(which is amazing regardless) but thats all we seem to be getting. We want variation with what we can summon. Hopefully this is the starting point for future trances similar to dreadwyrm.

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Originally Posted by bass9020

I think one of the issues Summoners have is, yes we keep getting these shiny new Bahamut things(which is amazing regardless) but thats all we seem to be getting. We want variation with what we can summon. Hopefully this is the starting point for future trances similar to dreadwyrm.

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Personally, I think this would be a good idea. Give us new trances if we cant have new egis. I don't even think about it much of a pet class anymore and would be totally cool if they did away with the pets and just let us be bad ass summoners who summon primals during our fights to throw a quick blast or two.

I'm not complaining the bahamut was the coolest ability shown by any of the the mage classes. So much that I forgot about BLM, RDM and SAM's showing completely.

I'm probably gonna say something that was said a million times before, but the Egis are quite underwhelming as they are now.

Summons have always been really iconic in any FF, this one included. Ifrit, Garuda, Titan and the others all look really amazing and it would be great to have them as a proper summon instead of these toy-looking Egis.

I understand the technical limitations and I still like the SMN job regardless, but I can't deny that without being able to summon powerful entities, the class lost a lot of its flavour.

Hopefully this Bahamut thing is going to pave the way for new possibilities.

Wouldn't it be lore-technicaly a Problem if two summoners are on the same scene and both summoning Ifrit? I think it would. That's said, thats why I believe as well, that new Bahamut "Summon" is more a visuable effect. Like "you use your charges and summone the essence of bahamut" but never the actual Primal. It happens to exist only once in the known universe.

However, remoddeling the Egis into something bigger that Looks more like the real deal - I'm all in for that one.

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Originally Posted by Talec

Wouldn't it be lore-technicaly a Problem if two summoners are on the same scene and both summoning Ifrit? I think it would. That's said, thats why I believe as well, that new Bahamut "Summon" is more a visuable effect. Like "you use your charges and summone the essence of bahamut" but never the actual Primal. It happens to exist only once in the known universe.

However, remoddeling the Egis into something bigger that Looks more like the real deal - I'm all in for that one.

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A visible effect doesn't fire off attacks like a normal pet, which is what Bahamut was doing, he fired off a normal attack while SMN used ruin, then akh morn. Since he is replacing your pet for a time, obviously he's going to attack the target otherwise the SMN will lose some damage because of it.

I'm just excited to see what else can we do :p