Machinist 4.0 - what do you think?

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Originally Posted by Myon88

Which is worrying if you ask me. If HW was any indication the 'invaluable support' the ranged bring is nothing more than tp/mp regen, which while great during progression, quickly becomes superfluous after that point. Paying a DPS tax for such 'invaluable' utility is a pretty bad deal.

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Well, we saw the new cross role skills and melee can give TP and caster dps can give mana.
Which means that as long as you have one caster, they can pick up these talent to help the healers if needed. It won't be as effective as bard/mach for sure, (I think it was 20% every 90sec)
But it's none the less a significant way to make bard/mach less mandatory as tp/mp battery. So perhaps they won't pay too much of that DPS tax.

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

But it's none the less a significant way to make bard/mach less mandatory as tp/mp battery. So perhaps they won't pay too much of that DPS tax.

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I wouldn't expect it too much. Smn can't afford it, and I doubt rdm can either. That just leaves blm. It's strange to me that they shifted all this support onto casters who havn't been doing it. Everyone is all the sudden looking at casters as mp batteries now but you have to remember you're asking them to give up their one resource for doing damage.

Well, if you're looking at it from a 'can they provide the healer mana without losing DPS', then the ranged 'can't afford it' either. You lose DPS promoting your turret, just as a SMN will lose ruin 3s if they donate mp to a healer - it's an emergency skill you use as a last resort to salvage an already bad situation.

But that's an interesting point I guess, if they're diluting tp/mp support into cross-role skills like that it does seem like a good sign for the ranged.

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Originally Posted by Yorumi

I wouldn't expect it too much. Smn can't afford it, and I doubt rdm can either. That just leaves blm. It's strange to me that they shifted all this support onto casters who havn't been doing it. Everyone is all the sudden looking at casters as mp batteries now but you have to remember you're asking them to give up their one resource for doing damage.

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Well, I can tell you you,re wrong for the rdm part, the manashift skill is a caster role skill, which means that BLM,SMN and RDM can do it.
Unless you mean they can't afford it because they need the mana for dps. In this case BLM can definitely afford it. SMN would need to be less agressive with their mana, yes the manashift would cost them 1-2 Mega Ruin.


And to support my previous claim, I do not think it is strange. They allowed caster to do some support if needed. Don't forget that these spells aren't Baseline. You need to pick those at the expense of Something else. If your healer don't need mana, there is probably more interesting choice than manashift.

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Originally Posted by Yorumi

but you have to remember you're asking them to give up their one resource for doing damage.

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I do remember it, which is why I said "if you don't have a bard/mch and your healer need the mana"
It's an option, it's not meant to be baseline. Like BRD/MCH mana battery aren't mandatory on every fight.
My guess was to just give group more choice if they miss Something.

Let say you pug the new primal, there is no BRD/MCH, (let say you play a caster), you can be like "mmm I'll take mana shift in case". Some people died, healer had to rez and now they're dangerously low on mana. You shift some of yours. You probably avoided a wipe. There is nothing far fetched in this scenario. People dying happens all the time, healer dying and being rezzed wih an empty blue bar is quite common. This skill will allow group to be less punished if they have no BRD/MCH.
It is also very unlikely to end up in a group with 4 melee dps.

And I agree people freak out way too much on this.
Even in my fc a BLM wants to reroll because he doesn't want to deal with that. I mean... he doesn't want to "maybe" have to give 20% of his mana (which replenish at a crazy rate) once or twice a fight. Not considering all the potential "stand still while the boss does his 15sec animation Attack" which wouldn't affect his dps at all.
If you don't want to use it just don't.

Not everyone value the same things. I tend to value safety over raw power.
I consider that if we wipe because we lack dps, it is not because I didn't pull those 3-4 Mega Ruins during the fight. The dps gained from those spell over the course of a fight is very trivial. The overall raid dps has much more impact. If someone die because one healer was oom, I consider that sacrificing those 2 Mega ruins to give back mana is well Worth it. If you do not care about your raid status and only car eabout your dps, just don't take it. Your raid shouldn't need it anyway. If everyone plays right, avoid everything, do top notch dps, your healer shouldn't need more mana.
Unless they drastically change Healing, I can't recall a single case where I always missed mana on a fight. I only missed mana when people just kept playing like shit.

Despite not minding casts on BRD (though mainly because they had so many oGCDs + Empyreal Arrow), and maining BLM, I absolutely hated casts on MCH; so yeah, with their removal, I may actually consider playing it more than once a year (outside of pre-50 content). I also like that the ammo mechanic has changed, as it was quite boring before, and if it loses the turret I can't say I'd miss it.

I like the changes and they introduce more tech skill theme as Machinist should be themed around more for being the Technology Job.

Heat meter is not that much of a issue as I have dealt with this mechanic before in other games. Just have to maintain the heat and avoid going crazy with skill spam to avoid overheating. Not many people will like how the Heat Meter prevents them frim mindlessly spamming every single skill at once due to Overheating but it is mostly down to how the Heat Meter may affect Machinist Damage and the benefits for maintaining proper balance with the Heat from overheating.

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Originally Posted by Neela

Anyway... seems that every cls will get a kind of charging-system with stronger finisher... the trailer and the skills seems a bit odd or to modern for a fantasy rpg imo...

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It is not that strange as Eorzea is now at the crossroad of advancement in technology. As Cid said there have been a lot of new technology being introduce into Eorzea's society due to his Ironworks. One such example is the Linkpearls which Cid reveal back in 2.0 is a actually a ear piece phone that use electronic microchips Ironwork's make but people think Linkpearls are powered by Magic due to lack of understanding in Computer, Electrical, and Mechanical Engineering. Cid also states he does not push too much of the knowledge on to Eorzea's society because it would confuse them so he just let them believe it is magic unless they are willing to learn how Computer, Electronical, and Machanical Engineering works.

The garlean empire has also been hinted to have a lot more advance technology we have yet to see and I would not be surprised if they have Television, Cafes, cars, more advance guns such as Machine Guns and Shotguns, motorcycles, and even the Internet within Garlemald considering they have Holographic computers, walkers, combat drones, and advance flying battleships.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

Well, if you're looking at it from a 'can they provide the healer mana without losing DPS', then the ranged 'can't afford it' either. You lose DPS promoting your turret, just as a SMN will lose ruin 3s if they donate mp to a healer - it's an emergency skill you use as a last resort to salvage an already bad situation.

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It's not so much about losing dps. For a smn(and probably rdm) they have to plan for it in advance. If a smn is going all out dps they won't have the mp to give in an emergency. For a brd or mch they don't use their mp while dpsing so it's highly unlikely they won't have the mp to turn on a song. A smn though would have to lower their dps for the whole find in order to save mp to give. And once they give it they'd probably still be low enough to severely hinder dps.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

The garlean empire has also been hinted to have a lot more advance technology we have yet to see and I would not be surprised if they have Television, Cafes, cars, more advance guns such as Machine Guns and Shotguns, motorcycles, and even the Internet within Garlemald considering they have Holographic computers, walkers, combat drones, and advance flying battleships.

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Also keep in mind the allagans. The state of the world now is more a regression and FAR more advanced technology has existed even without considering the garleans.

I wish they kept the 3.0 GB but gave us Multiple ways to play with and without GB. Gb could be a high burst damage play style while with out is a quick sustain play style.

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Originally Posted by Pence

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What I meant is, we will still be going for max wildfire damage. Rotation will change for sure, but the goal is still the same.

Also the reason I said fire = magic is because NIN fire (idk what is the name of that ability) is doing magic damage not physical, I made my assumption based on that. It is just speculations, I'm not saying this is the case.

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Originally Posted by Yorumi

It's not so much about losing dps. For a smn(and probably rdm) they have to plan for it in advance. If a smn is going all out dps they won't have the mp to give in an emergency. For a brd or mch they don't use their mp while dpsing so it's highly unlikely they won't have the mp to turn on a song. A smn though would have to lower their dps for the whole find in order to save mp to give. And once they give it they'd probably still be low enough to severely hinder dps.

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This is all moot really considering we have no idea how any job will play out in Stormblood. The fact of the matter is that casters have this cross-role skill now, that's not going to change, and there are certain things you can infer from that about how SE views caster raid utility.

The one thing that bothered me about 3.0 MCH was the ammo. When the class was announced, they made it seem like ammo would add a variety of effects, but all we got were 100% guaranteed proc chances on our main shots. I'm hoping ammo actually is more than a glorified proc buff in 4.0. Casts didn't bother me too much on MCH because we had ways to mitigate it at least (unlike Bards).

To be honest I kinda don't want to play mch now. It just seems they've changed it completely while other jobs are still similar. I'll see what SB brings.

Based on that distance from the target dummy (vs every other ranged dps/healer shown in the preview) almost looks like MCH is losing some of its range - maybe becoming more of a medium ranged class to differentiate from BRD. Could just be they wanted the action closer to show off the skills but thought it was interesting.