Never thought about divine veil but you're right.....having a healing req is very gimmicky....no actual perk. You can always time it properly by either inticipating the inc heal or heal yourself. But it's still gimmicky...
How about instead they make divine veil have some personal utility but also if you're healed while it's active the party get the shield so it would be liken to the way dark art modifies drk abilities (base effect +heal= additional effect).
Or just remove the healing requirement
Yoshi P's Paladin Love
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05-08-2017, 10:11 PMjavid
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05-09-2017, 02:50 AMwinsock
I speculate that the original implementations of clemency and dv were to avoid crossing roles where possible. Clemency's original cast time was long enough to where it was only useful if a healer wasn't doing their job. DV had a healer-like effect and as such it cost a healer gcd to activate.
I think clemency is a little too powerful atm. It's not the greatest thing in the world, but when you see things like dual PLDs carrying on and completing a duty after both healers have died, it seems to have crossed roles a little too much. I'd much rather see clemency either become self-heal only + buffed, or have it's functionality changed entirely. -
05-09-2017, 06:50 AMKingFrost
I wonder if an oGCD Clemency (I would rather this and still have it cost MP. Short CD as well. Or at least a 1.5 cast time as previously suggested) would make Divine Veil Better? I kinda like the idea of the combo (More MP management I suppose) but it hinges on Clemency being better.
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05-09-2017, 11:02 AMAcidbloodMaybe, but you are still relying on co-ordination with the healer(s) to either heal you, or not heal you, at the right time... and in most PUGs that is just not going to happen reliably.Quote:
Originally Posted by javid
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05-09-2017, 11:22 AMjavidI can only see an issue if you're precasting the ability such that it will avail itself sooner for second/third use in a fight; otherwise cast it exactly when u need it and heal yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Acidblood
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05-09-2017, 11:28 AMjaviddivine?? Divine veil isn't dependent on self heals to activate; even though precise coordination maybe an issue in a PUG fight. Whether or not clemency is a ogcd or gcd would only affect your dps (you could still self activate Divine and heal yourself on gcd or offgcd)Quote:
Originally Posted by KingFrost
But divine having a delayed effect, outside of recast benefits, poses no benefit to the party as currently implemented. AGain I'll like to see divine be given some kind of latent effect if its activated by self or if activated by someone else ( either nor not both).....otherwise just removed the healing requirement gimmick. -
05-09-2017, 06:00 PMaqskerorokero
It's a half truth... love for PLD? Does not mean Yoshi won't give WAY MORE LOVE to other 2 tanks....All we know now PLD has to give up 3 or 4 skill to role skill, and receive nothing from other two. Shall see later on for more details...
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05-09-2017, 09:20 PMjavidSo you right!! Lol. Before drk was invented the love would vacillate between war and pld...concurrently they've designed war as the MUST have with the option of drk/pld even though pld has the least functionality....(combo of it's NEEDED utility and dps)......Quote:
Originally Posted by aqskerorokero
I hope they make pld great again!! Lol. I hope they make the tanks synergize like 3 parts of a whole circle- no two combo offers the same utility and all have niche optimal advantages. -
05-09-2017, 09:37 PMjavid
ANOTHER issue with divine veil is it's radius. Completely too small. A tank/ party shouldn't have to be worried about if they're close enough together to all receive the buff. Change from 15 yalms to 25 yalms. THE logic being, BAMs are about 6 yalms in hitbox diameter and if a caster is at max range from BAM, directly opposite pld mt, that a total 21 yalms between pld and the caster .
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05-09-2017, 10:21 PMjavid
I'm on a roll this morning....
I would like to see sch lose fey covenant and that exact ability be transferred to PLD and renamed Divine covenant!! Sch already needs to be nerfed anyways..... sch losing that ability and PLD gaining it would be noticable yet not broken (sadly there are a bunch of nominal sch that don't even know what that skill does....lulz
It's a raid wide magic equivalent of foresight. Very decent utility ). -
05-09-2017, 11:54 PMSyzzleSpark
Divine Veil's proc duration is 30s.
To my way of thinking, if you and your healers are skilled enough that you require zero healing for a full 30 seconds, then you ought to be skilled enough know when the best time to use the ability is (when you're guaranteed to be getting healing...)
Converting it to a Fey Covenant rip-off would actually be a direct nerf, since the abilities have the same recast time but Divine Veil will cover physical and magical damage whereas Fey Covenant will not, and Divine Veil is calculated by the PLD's HP whereas Fey Covenant actually provides very little mitigation for your physical DPS as their magic defense stats are not high enough for a 20% increase to be a big deal, at least in comparison to what DV offers. So basically you'd be shafting the people in your party that stand to benefit most from DV over FC. Shield-based mitigation is head-over-heels better than stat-based % mitigation in most cases. This is probably why us tanks don't really have cooldowns like this, as our HP stats would make them brokenly powerful. (Shadeshift or Mana Wall on an i270 tank right now would be nearly an 8K physical damage shield, more with party VIT buffs/food/etc).
Look at it this way; if you could, wouldn't you much rather have Shadeshift or Mana Wall as a CC ability than Foresight? PLD wants DV over FC, trust me. -
05-10-2017, 12:20 AMCaduagmForesight is only physical...Quote:
Originally Posted by javid
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05-10-2017, 01:19 AMjavidYou trolling loool. I know it's physical that's why the words "magic equivalent " preface foresight (since i assume tank forum ppl would best understand what foresight does...now image a magical foresight aka fey covenant)Quote:
Originally Posted by Caduagm
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05-10-2017, 01:33 AMjavid
Uh 30 secs of no heals is what you might get in a static....so in that case only is that 30 sec OP. And i didn't say trade divine for fey. I said take fey from sch and give it to pld. So PLD has divine and fey not either or. Also divine is 10% of the effected player's max hp not the tanks max...that would be toooo OP!!
Lastly you underestimate the power of the fey!!! Only DRG has less magic defense than they do physical defense and even still 20% of that low magic defense is AT LEASSST 5-9% magic dmg reduction for 20 sec!!! And it's an aoe!!!! Don't sleep on fey
I.e. if you hit a fey on a11s during tower phase right after the first ga100 but just BEFORE the subsequent optical sight it would last until just after the double whirlwind
That's two optical+ personal hawk blasters + 2 whirlwinds.... nooooooo other cd in game could cover that many aoes except sacred soil (but soil isn't big enough!! To fit the mechs)
Or another example. Sophia has a 6 consecutive aoe sequence with a slight delay in between but even if fey was only 2% actual magic dmg reduction (lulzzz it's definitely not...) it would still be plus on divine after the 6 aoes (12% >10%).
Another point outside a dps or healer taking aggro or tanking an add most all raid wide dmg is magical so it doesn't really matter (most times) that divine can cover magic and physical.
Aannnnd one last thing... dmg reduction scales better than max hp stoneskin abilities (at least before echo......) -
05-10-2017, 02:29 AMTint
i usually see PLD using divine veil 2 seconds before a raid buster. that's simply not enough time to cast a heal, especially when i am pre-casting an aoe heal for said raid buster...
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05-10-2017, 03:06 AMjavidThose are Plds uncomfortable with the raid mechs....that's silly to wait 2 sec prior...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tint
and another point to the guy that wants to max the efficient recast of divine veil, the buff doesn't only remain on you for 30 sec after activation prior to a cure but it also last 30 sec on members prior to dmg . So can optimize both ways unless there is like stray aoe dmg that you don't really care to mitigate right before the REAL AOE dmg. And think thru current raid and extremes it escapes me of any such situation?
Note: I thought of one example of stray dmg you don't want to divine veil. The dmg during limit cut numbers. You could divine activate at the start and get a heal when the boss comes bk. Getting a heal during the cut sequence could potentially shaft everyone. -
05-10-2017, 07:09 AMaqskerorokero
I start to believe i can see the future. Saw those 3 screenshots about tanks just now, not mentioning the effects of those ablity, just look at their grafic effects! Now I believe the dev team and Yoshi have HATE for paladin.
Look at those pictures...
What pld gets? A meh slash that resembles more like a girlly dance. Where are holy lights? Angel feathers? flashy sparkles?
Drk? atleast gets more darkness..darkness..darkness.
Warrior gets full on G O D mode that may crash a ps4 grafic card. -
05-10-2017, 11:53 AMjavidit's only 1 frame. granted the one frame of the WAR PROVES ALREADY TO BE OP................................................... but there is still hope for pld and drk (imo drk still look underwhelming in that ONE frame).Quote:
Originally Posted by aqskerorokero
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05-10-2017, 02:50 PMaqskerorokeroYea, I guess when Yoshi took those screenshots he was thinking:Quote:
Originally Posted by javid
Uhmm, I have promised love for pld, what do i do now?!?!?! Bah whatever.
1 screenshot taken.
Dark enough? Can people see Drk covered in black smok? Good.
3 shots taken.
Wait wait wait, lights, angle, let's get it at right momentum, readyyyyy go! Nah, another one.
Multiple shots and posted the perfect one.
I see you Yoshi, I see you. -
05-10-2017, 11:09 PMADVSSQuote:
Originally Posted by aqskerorokero
yeah i totally didnt get the horizontal slash/vertical slash, warrior looks like he gets an aoe of infuriate, i mean like they just extended the animation to be a nuke
I guess these are new aoes of the three tanks, maybe. Horizontal cut, ok probably a cone aoe like overpower. Vertical? only guess is a line aoe, otherwise....what enemy pack stacks vertically that itd even be useful. War gets circle pbaoe, hmmm looks like all theyre doing for warrior is giving it everything it didnt have that the other two have. Im a little concerned now, after seeing the benchmark and these on top of rampart/shadowskin being cross role abilities. forget rdm or sam - WAR -
05-11-2017, 12:12 AMSpookyGhostJust speculation, but the WAR skill struck me as the Deliverance version of Unchained. Doesn't really look too much like an AOE.Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVSS
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05-11-2017, 12:17 AMADVSSoh was it unchained that does that animation? Not big on WAR so I thought it was infuriate. You could be right, I just sort of made the correlation when it seems like they introduce a pld slash which sounds like it could be an aoe combo finisher, and stating drk get an opposite one. So logically i figured theyd show off something similar for WAR.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
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05-11-2017, 01:02 AMSpookyGhostNah, Infuriate does do that animation, but I assumed it was used to be associated with a buff - though for all we know we could be getting 10 Wrath stacks and that's Ultimate Infuriate. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by ADVSS
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05-11-2017, 01:07 AMADVSShonestly never understood the purpose of max stacks = 1 move, but that would be awesome too. I mean maybe the devs just said like last time "well warriors always fell cleaving anyway lets give them 2 more to squeeze in" I mean i feel like deliverance was also influenced by the community already dropping defiance anyway so they decided to make it meta....you could be onto somethingQuote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
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05-11-2017, 12:58 PMAcidbloodTo some extent, but that is assuming you have the time / MP* to trigger it yourself... i.e. the best use I can think of for DV is just before a party wide AoE, however these typically either have a short cast time or require everyone to stack up (and PLD can't cast while moving), so while I'm admittedly not that practiced at it, I have a hard time triggering DV on my own in such situations.Quote:
Originally Posted by javid
* Technically you can use Cure, but that takes a cross-class slot and Cure is useless on it's own, which means you are basically sacrificing an ability purely to make DV more useful :/
Agreed, the ability to land it on the whole party at a good range would make it much more useful... although I would be more or less happy with the current range if they removed the heal requirement, as at least then you could trigger it exactly when you wanted it (and on the move).Quote:
Originally Posted by javid
In my experience this isn't really the case... as the best time to trigger it is generally just before an AoE, but if the healer has kept everyone topped up* then you aren't going to be receiving more heals until after the AoE, which is too late. And there is also the issue of range... i.e. when you are in front of a boss tanking, which is when you are most likely to be receiving regular heals, you are also most likely out of range of all but maybe the melee DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark
* This is especially the case with a WHM and the their relatively powerful regen(s), which ironically is the best healer to use DV with as they lack their own in-battle AoE shields.
Edit: Also, I'm not talking about savage raid statics, where the heal requirement on DV makes little difference (at worst it is an annoyance and a small waste of MP), I'm talking about general content with PUGs, where removing the heal requirement would transform DV from a skill that is mostly wasted (assuming it is ever used) into a skill that Paladins can use pro-activitely to at least make healers lives a little easier in certain situations, if not save someone, or the rest of the party from death.