Anima... its not fun anymore

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

My point was, they made the relics interesting, and people hated the difficulty, so they nixed that and made them grinds.

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There was absolutely nothing interesting about sitting around Outer La Noscea for 3 days waiting for Schism to spawn, having the unfortunate rng that causes you to run Aurum Vale 100+ times, or Spirit Bonding level 50 gear only to get Grade 1 vitality, the only branch of 2.0 relic that had any interesting background was the perfect crafts simply because it MAY have lead to players to start crafting.

Your point was to paint the community as people who whine about everything and want things handed to them. Fighting Titan for relic was many players first steps into the door of end game content. Despite what you think of the community in regards to relic progression, it's because we ALL complained about the steps of 2.0, and is why 3.0 only had one rng based requirement and one crafting requirement. Every other step aside from fates and craft, was 100% drop rates, they were just lengthy and costed a lot more tomes. 4.0 relic will likely be the same as 3.0 except it will likely have reduced item requirements or tome costs, more than one way to obtain items, and likely require old 3.0 content to be ran unsynched.

I feel you are completely ignoring my point and focusing on the bit that i'm not even talking about. But oh well.

Being currently on the phase to gather the Aetheric Condensation for the Anima, my biggest annoyance with the part is having to play only one class... I leveled multiple classes so I don't get burned out playing just one class...

But overall, before that, there was the Crystal Sands, which was a terrible step since the only realible way to really get them was the Amber Encased Vilekins... And Levequest Allowances don't exactly allow to do the thousands of Levequests it would need to get all the sands...

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Originally Posted by Windseraph

The Umbrite cost WAS cut in half, they used to be 300 lore :V

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I know i ment they cut it in half again

I don't think the Anime quest was ever meant to be fun or captivating, for that manner. It's a grind, and a test of patience, you didn't expect to easily obtain one of the strongest weapons in the game did you? Just be glad it's nerfed now, and you don't have to go through it pre-nerf.

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Originally Posted by NERV

I don't think the Anime quest was ever meant to be fun or captivating, for that manner. It's a grind, and a test of patience, you didn't expect to easily obtain one of the strongest weapons in the game did you? Just be glad it's nerfed now, and you don't have to go through it pre-nerf.

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No one said it had to be easy. People want it to be fun, the 3.x relic was not. I think the only part that was fun was the 230 part, only because it got people into crystal tower again.

The problem is that you are grinding, instead of gaining progress as you go. Many people spam A1S for Light. Me? I run anything Heavensward-related. It keep things fresh and reduces burning myself out.

The moment I got my PLD Lux I instantly began working on DRK, NIN, and AST's weapons.

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Originally Posted by NERV

I don't think the Anime quest was ever meant to be fun or captivating, for that manner. It's a grind, and a test of patience, you didn't expect to easily obtain one of the strongest weapons in the game did you? Just be glad it's nerfed now, and you don't have to go through it pre-nerf.

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Anima**** not anime -_-

I am not sure if getting relics was ever meant to be "fun" but giving us a time sink

They need to give us a "time sink" that is more entertaining and interesting, not doing the same thing a million times over, that is not creative.

I will say this, 3.0 relics > 2.0 because 2.0 was too much find this rare fate or camp this rare fate that fails in 10 seconds after pop, that was insanely frustrating. In 3.0 relics you can get them just by doing dailies off different things that does not take long, that is the reason I have one on this account as an alt. It just came naturally trying do dailies and once i saw enough accumulation I was like wow this is realistic after all, I was not sure at first but might as well save the items in case it was. I did NO LORE FARMING or SAND CRAFTING farming to get my smn book and I'm close to my sch. I got the sands off poetic/ casual hunting for that, squad ventures and the new crafting weekly. ofc the 2 quests for clusters make that step a joke, ill have 50 easy

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Originally Posted by Ririta

http://i.imgur.com/J37lqhW.png

I did the Zodiac but I can't justify the investment anymore, not when I saw my Excalibur turn into two worthless crystals.

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you could of done it if you just did dailies every day..... throwing out all those unidids is crazy.

https://s1.postimg.org/eqhde6b8t/ffxiv_weapons.jpg
;)lol10chars

Wish there was challenge to the anima weapons and not endless grind. Idk perhaps kill T13 with only 3 people or beat titan Ex solo. Something similar maybe not that outrageous, but challenges that aren't RNG or light grinding. Actual content that is challenging and makes the effort worth it. Having to grind light or stones in the same dungeon isn't a challenge. Sure it can be a challenge, but the challenge is based on time and not skill. Not the games skill, but the players skill, the guy sitting behind the screen. Like clearing a low lever dungeon without a tank or healer. Possible as an Archer or Thaumaturge while synced. It requires thinking on how you will deal with each pull and it makes the dungeon fun.

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Originally Posted by LalafellDown

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There is no skill, personal or game wise in clearing any content, unsynced though. Almost all those extremes can be two manned.

With that in mind, good luck soloing titan ex on ANY class synced to 50. Outrageous or not. Many fights would just upright kill you without proper healing or mitigation.

They should definitely put forth content like they had in ARR with Chimera, etc. Just probably not slapping it in content without thinking first.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I feel you are completely ignoring my point and focusing on the bit that i'm not even talking about. But oh well.

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Your point was Titan was to hard and people couldn't do mechanics, so they nerfed the difficulty of 3.0 relic and made the quest less interesting. You didn't attempt to explain how any of the other steps were even remotely more interesting or less challenging, I'm not ignoring your point in the slightest. But you're dodging my questions as to how the other steps were interesting, we had to fate farm in 2.0 and 3.0, we had to craft, we had to use tomes to exchange for special items, we had to dungeon run, had to fight primals, needed to increase stats, and we had to light farm. 3.0 was almost identical to 2.0 minus the mass of rng based progression.

Done 9 of them, finishing the 10th.

Simple game design philosophy being ignored:

Will players participate or play with a feature or content if there was no reward?

If yes. Add feature or content.
If no. Redesign.

Think that is impossible? Look at Super Mario Bros. You had the option to skip Worlds 1-3 through 3-4. And 4-3 through 7-4. So why did some of us play them anyway? There was no different ending. Nothing special to help at the end of 8-4. We did it because it was fun.

Doesn't apply to RPGs? Breath of the Wild apparently can be beaten in 35 minutes. But the game on its own is fun enough to just explore and take it all in.

Why is our relic quest grindy? Arbitrary 'reason's. Its the idea that to have something good, one must work for it. Let's change that philosophy from 'work' to 'play'. Actually why couldn't the relic quest be something akin to the MSQ? Something like a WSQ (weapon story quest). Time is the part that they want behind the weapon, and something like the MSQ would take the requisite time. Players would get a ton of lore and would not feel drained playing through the same content over and over.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

you could of done it if you just did dailies every day..... throwing out all those unidids is crazy.

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That's the problem... doing dailies every day burned me out.

I hope The Forbidden Land changes the way relics are obtained, I like having an important weapon with its own story to keep for the whole expansion but not when to do it I have to give up on doing other activities in the game.

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Originally Posted by Ririta

I hope The Forbidden Land changes the way relics are obtained, I like having an important weapon with its own story to keep for the whole expansion but not when to do it I have to give up on doing other activities in the game.

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It might change the "way" the relics are obtained, but not the time investment required to get them, because that is deliberate. So whatever content they intend to gate it behind - Quests, open world content, instances... prepare to get burned out from that if you're doing the relic.

Tomes are already fairly generous as they're rewarded by quite a lot of content and allow you to switch jobs whenever you feel like. I personally fear Eureka is gonna be a step down from that and force you into a sort of Diadem to advance your relic >_>

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Originally Posted by Zojha

It might change the "way" the relics are obtained, but not the time investment required to get them, because that is deliberate. So whatever content they intend to gate it behind - Quests, open world content, instances... prepare to get burned out from that if you're doing the relic.

Tomes are already fairly generous as they're rewarded by quite a lot of content and allow you to switch jobs whenever you feel like. I personally fear Eureka is gonna be a step down from that and force you into a sort of Diadem to advance your relic >_>

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To me the ideal would be a weekly duty, I wouldn't mind having to do Eureka with my main job if progress was made in large chunks every week, so like I take one day off to do it and then the other days I can do other stuff, kinda like the Crystal Tower phase of the Anima (you could get the oils quicker but you could also only do the weekly and still complete it in a reasonable time)

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Originally Posted by Ririta

To me the ideal would be a weekly duty, I wouldn't mind having to do Eureka with my main job if progress was made in large chunks every week, so like I take one day off to do it and then the other days I can do other stuff, kinda like the Crystal Tower phase of the Anima (you could get the oils quicker but you could also only do the weekly and still complete it in a reasonable time)

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I wouldn't mind something like this to be honest, but I could see other players being very upset with it. Time Gate vs. Grind Gate. Everyone has their preference. Ideally I wouldn't mind seeing both made available, so those who want to grind tomestones 4 days in a row without sleeping, eating, or using a bathroom, have that option, and those who prefer to take it a bit more slowly but progress in large chunks can do so. I guess the difference would be getting it done in 4 days or 4 weeks. Though there is no reason not to mix and match them.

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Originally Posted by Ririta

That's the problem... doing dailies every day burned me out.

I hope The Forbidden Land changes the way relics are obtained, I like having an important weapon with its own story to keep for the whole expansion but not when to do it I have to give up on doing other activities in the game.

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I am a little confused how, FFXIV is about doing dailies over and over again, did you keep capping scripts?

I do agree they should change it though, 2.0 to now it is the same basic thing while fights have different gimmicks.

The umbrite step has become infamous for being grindy as fuck, and my only problem with it, which is something I don't ever want to see repeated, is that there is only one method to get it, you grind lore.

When the umbrite nerf was announced I was hoping for a quest that gave umbrite as a reward for, say, completing all three of the heavensward 24-man raids, or making it an item attainable from diadem, either through lockboxes or exchange with brass spoils.

I wouldn't mind umbrite at all if I had 2 or 3 options to choose from, especially with how many ways you can get crystal sand.

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Originally Posted by Skeltal-Bons

I wouldn't mind umbrite at all if I had 2 or 3 options to choose from, especially with how many ways you can get crystal sand.

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The options of contents, that give lore tomes, is not really small

Anima is nerfed to oblivion already lol. Every step except light is completely trivial it's a joke. You can complete 13 Animas if you wish ez.

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Originally Posted by Skyrior

Anima is nerfed to oblivion already lol. Every step except light is completely trivial it's a joke. You can complete 13 Animas if you wish ez.

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Time =/= Difficulty

If you can collect one, you can collect ten, or one hundred. The question is when does it stop becoming fun to do?

Personally I'd like the see the grindy steps taken out entirely and replaced with actual skill based encounters. Of course those against the idea are content with their easy grind, because an actual challenge would be a wall to them.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Time =/= Difficulty

If you can collect one, you can collect ten, or one hundred. The question is when does it stop becoming fun to do?

Personally I'd like the see the grindy steps taken out entirely and replaced with actual skill based encounters. Of course those against the idea are content with their easy grind, because an actual challenge would be a wall to them.

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If you want an actual challenge for an i275 weapon there's Alexander Savage. Relic was never meant to be challenging but it IS meant to be time consuming.

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Originally Posted by DaikiKiyoshi

If you want an actual challenge for an i275 weapon there's Alexander Savage. Relic was never meant to be challenging but it IS meant to be time consuming.

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Bingo, Relics are there to keep people busy. Also for Anima you don't need to do anything special, daily stuff is enough not like Z weapons.

I quite enjoy the grindy aspects. I disagree that completely taking out the grind and switching it out with pure challenge content would solve anything, because really the only content that could replace the hours of grinding with challenge would be 4-8-12 Savage level. At that point you could just do A12S for a 275 anyhoo.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

Bingo, Relics are there to keep people busy. Also for Anima you don't need to do anything special, daily stuff is enough not like Z weapons.

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I find even current nerfed-to-oblivion Z-relics more difficult to obtain IF it is your first time leveling a class to 50+. I did two of them, separately. I am currently working on two animas simultaneously and the stress is nowhere near what it was for the Z-relics despite being my first jobs to 60.

But I agree, it is meant to be a time dump. It is meant to be grindy. Relics are a great way to keep a player occupied and into instances that are also being ran by others for a myriad of reasons. And in the end, you get a REALLY nice glamour; suitable for combat well into the next expansion, that cannot be obtained any other way. It baffles me that people gripe about choosing to partake optional content.