I agree personally, but: I think the nature of the game's content actually fosters the backwards idea of looking for insurance. a lot of the worst case scenarios (or situations that lead into are non recoverable in this game, or at least were before creator, not sure if it will stay. The vulnerability ups, the damage and haste ups, the paralyzes, the only member with a pontential of turning that around is the healer, and even that is toyed with thanks to raise sickness and the hard enrages.Quote:
Originally Posted by QuarIm
What is up with this toxic community
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03-02-2017, 03:09 AMKallera
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03-02-2017, 03:32 AMStarRosieHmmmm, maybe I got lucky then, When I first started on Balmung, I got pulled into a super friendly FC and haven't had any real problems with toxic people. Outside of RPers who get randomly mad at you cause "The tip of your tail was in this screen shot that was supposed to be a picture taken in our RP. Fuck you!" or something like that. If anything...Balmung is super quiet. Except for that one time in Ul'dah where I had a shout conversation with 5 strangers about Yu-Gi-Oh for half an hour.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexia
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03-02-2017, 03:42 AMSeredeelfer
Sprout checking in. Personally I find this community to be an actual community and quite helpful. I've made mistakes in DF groups and toons have died because of what I've done/not done. And I received constructive criticism on how to improve - which I appreciate. If you're finding toxicity could it be at all related to how long you've been playing this content which I'm finding refreshing and fun? I know the toxicity in the game I came from is driven by a lack of stuff to do at level cap.
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03-02-2017, 07:28 AMLadyKairi
I came from wow a couple years ago. I try to be sweet and patient (though I still have my bad days like everyone else). I've never wanted FF to be like WoW, because I love how unique it is. I left wow for a reason, and I would love for it to keep its own identity. I do not want it to be a wow clone.
I do see quite a bit of negativity. Heck, I always greet party members when loading in, and I tend to get a "haha no" ;A; -
03-02-2017, 07:43 AMFeidam
I left Gilgamesh sever because the community was very toxic in my experience. On Jenova now and it's a really nice server in my experience.
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03-02-2017, 08:05 AMbardaboo
The community is toxic because noone ever wants to be told they aren't playing well, or are doing something wrong. On top of that, people leap to defend them. You want a nice pleasant community? Stop defending lazy players. It only serves to frustrate those trying to actually help.
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03-02-2017, 08:13 AMFeidamThe opposite could be said too. The top players are elitist and expect everyone to perform at maximum performance every minute of game time and be just like them. It's way more complicated than players are just lazy. Some players are lazy. Some are simply uniformed about their class. While others are elitist pricks and then we have everyone else in between the extremes. It is simply not everyone has the same level of ability. The toxicity comes in when people behave badly for whatever reason. Want a pleasant community expect more from players in terms of their own behavior and hold them accountable when they behave badly.Quote:
Originally Posted by bardaboo
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03-02-2017, 08:15 AMKaedan
I haven't noticed any particular increase in toxicity. Must be a server-specific thing. I'm on Tonberry, which is mostly Aussies and Japanese people, and we have very few behavior problems.
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03-02-2017, 08:23 AMYasuhiroI tried playing on Gilgamesh when I first started out as didn't know I'd get better ping on Elemental or there was English speaking people on Tonberry (before I knew a lick of Japanese)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaedan
The cultural differences are amazing like how Alliance raids are done.
There's an unspoken rule on JP Datacenters that B tanks the main boss and A + C do add control but when I played on Gilgamesh all three tanks either don't pull at all until 1 finally gives in, argue over who's going to tank or have an aggro contest spinning the boss, it was the most bizzare thing I've seen. I don't know why a lot of Datacenters don't adopt what the Japanese do, it's completely flawless and things go heaps smoother. -
03-02-2017, 08:38 AMbardabooI mean it /could/ be the opposite, but most elitist players start out trying to be helpful and then get attitude and apathy in response to "hey. Heavy thrust is helpful you should try to keep it up" if players would not respond in a negative way to that, there would be a lot less "elitist pricks"Quote:
Originally Posted by Feidam
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03-02-2017, 09:01 AMKaedanI've only ever played on Japanese data centers, so I wasn't aware of that. Wow, that is surprising. I thought everyone knew the policy of B group main tanking and A and C doing add control/extra mechanics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yasuhiro
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03-02-2017, 09:06 AMAylisYeeeeeep~ Everyone has a eventual breaking point when it comes to patience and comes to grips that arguing just isn't worth it. After too many times of trying to be nice and saying to DPS "It would be a really big help if you please please please don't intentionally stand in ick while I'm trying to keep the tank up and cleanse debuffs." only to get in return "STFU!! LRN 2 HEELZ!! I PLAY AS I WANT!! MOVING HURTS MY DPS SO DON'T TELL ME HOW TO PLAY!" fastly just made me learn it's pointless to try and talk to them. It's less stressful to just say to them "Okay..you play as you want...but you can do so in another group, not this one" then vote kick.Quote:
Originally Posted by bardaboo
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03-02-2017, 10:00 AMRamath
I'm amazed that in this day and age people are still either confused or surprised at this concept.
1) With FFXIV being one of the more known and played MMO's, your chances of running into rude/mean people rise exponentially. More people means more of all types.
2) The internet affords people with the relative safety of anonymity. People are far more likely to be rude/mean when they don't have to look someone in the eye to do so.
3) Most, though not all, of your enjoyable social encounters will come from interacting with people you know a bit better. ie- your FC and/or LS. You get to know them better and are far more likely to be nice and good-natured around them.
With all of that being said and done, you're always going to have a much higher chance running into the lowest forms of human life out in the random wild. So, get to know some people, try and make some friends, and before you know it you'll be happily talking trash about the random dps in your roulette run over your FC channel. -
03-02-2017, 10:56 AMDPZ2Weird. I've been playing this game for over two years now, and I've never seen a single player respond this way. Of course, I don't have enough time to watch how other people play when I'm in a dungeon instance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aylis
The BEST veteran player I've ever met walked a guild member and I, both WoW hunters back in BC, through the Sunken Temple in order to teach us all about the use of Crowd Control (CC). He wasn't a guild member, and he didn't have to take the time to do so, but he did. He wanted us to be better hunters so that, in future, we would do better in higher level instances.
That is community. -
03-02-2017, 11:01 AMpawg
weird... I've found the game to have no community at all.
FFXI bless -
03-02-2017, 11:09 AMDPZ2There could be millions of copies of "FFXIV: The RPG" sold. I don't think that it would take that much to turn it into a single player RPG.Quote:
Originally Posted by MiaGrey
The problem is that the word "Massively" has changed meaning, from thousands to tens-of-thousands to hundreds-of-thousand to millions of players. Community works best in small increments -- your friends, your Free Company. Even there you will come across conflict.
People who play MMOs do so for a number of reasons -- including "I like to make other people's day feel horrible". Solo play in today's world, or small sub-group play with friends, is preferable to being actively scorned by players, regardless of reason.
Enforced group-play (aka "Main Story Quest") scares the heck out of some folks, who do just enough to get through it in order to get to the next non-group part of the story. -
03-02-2017, 11:20 AMDPZ2Quote:
Originally Posted by pawg
After reading FFXI forums from back when it was still active, I can only note that complaints and issues were similar to what you find on the FFXIV forums today.
After playing FFXI last year, I found that game to have no community at all. I assume I missed out on the glory days and that the extremely low population today still provides some level of clique/community for those veterans who have been there for years, but new players? Not so much. -
03-02-2017, 11:28 AMYasuhiroYou'd think that, wouldn't you? I mean as soon as you start araid B is in the middle hell, the layout is even in a triangle formation with B right at the front.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaedan
When it's just an add room with mobs in the centre, left and right B takes the middle on NA but as soon they reach a boss it's like the rules suddenly change. -
03-02-2017, 11:41 AMAylisConsider yourself lucky then. Before my full set group my two friends that are part of it and I would trip over them >_> we don't ask for perfection. Just simple rules. Don't over pull against the tank. Let the tank do the pulling and don't stand in ick on purpose. That's all really. We don't really see what the fourth random dps is doing rotation wise. We can work with anything in that light. We only notice and pay attention to the big rule breaks.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPZ2
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03-02-2017, 12:19 PMLexiaIf you just started playing XI in 2016 then yes you missed the glory days by lot by at least about 5 yearsQuote:
Originally Posted by DPZ2
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03-02-2017, 12:39 PMAdireI have more bad things to say about Balmung's community than good things, personally. If they offered free transfers from it, I'd gladly go to a smaller server.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexia
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03-02-2017, 12:41 PMJim_BerryThe Archers are my priority. If they are killing your group, the tank is doing it wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyTheSequel
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03-02-2017, 12:51 PMAniond
SquareEnix gives you many options to get up. Whether its Beastman dailies/ Raid Finger / Savage Raids / EX Summons or grind. You can find a something that you want/like to do. The problem with WOW is - Best gear is only obtainable by Mythic Raids. The rest of gear and rewards are yanked from you.
I think naturally peope will flock here whether they are good or bad people. -
03-02-2017, 01:16 PMSainya
I will tell you now why. It's people that expect to clear content quickly without putting in the work. They don't want to form a static, they don't want to make friends, they don't want to put anything into the community. The second those people go away, is when the community will improve. Unfortunately, the difficulty level makes it so these types of players are grouped up with other newer players (To enable the newer to catch up) and they don't understand why the fellow player isn't clearing. they don't know they're new. Or don't care.
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03-02-2017, 05:32 PMYukiko
The Problem is grinding...
Its not the "normal" thing, because in FFXIV you have to grind Content (not just items or xp)...
When running 100 times the same dungeon to get 100 items, but you need 10.000 items for your aim then at some point you just get crazy and become toxic towards others because of pure frustration! There are even calculations where you will need "years" to accomplish achievements in FFXIV (For the Notes: If you play only this single content, no variation that whole years).
Its not the grinding itself, its the scaling and incredible stupid balancing around it. The reward is not worth it and instead of lowering the grind they just giving insane rewards. Out of frustration players quit, but those few who burn out can get it... -
03-02-2017, 06:22 PMAnaviAnaelTrust me, on Aether you're lucky to find a tank willing to be main tank. Even when MT dies, it's a Christmas miracle to have one of the other two actually pick up the boss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaedan
Anyway back on topic...
I've encountered this so many times that my friends and I often joke that the ones who yell the loudest are upset because they couldn't get carried.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanazolol
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03-02-2017, 06:43 PMVoltyblast
Can relate: I just got harassed and kicked from a dungeon yesterday because they couldn't wait for me, the tank, to finish a single aggro combo, resulting in the dps pulling and dying twice (we wiped on first boss). The result was them (I think only one did not) harassing me, offending me and kicking me because I was "whining". Mind you that I never offended, nor attempted to troll or anything: i simply asked them, kindly too, to let me finish my first rotation and I told them to stop or kick me (with warning ensue). I got them reported anyway.
But to be fair I had all sorts of troubles in this game because of the community: heck it's also why i don't use my main toon in the forums, at least not right off the bat, because of a friend who got harassed ingame from the forums and so I took his advice. On top of that I can't seem to even criticize the game nor anything like that and it's a shame because I do kinda like the game, even if it lacks content, but if only had less of an elitistic community...
I mean I remember being "brutally" offended because I simply did not like the music track of Temple of Qarn HM, telling me that "I have no taste in music"...how is this the best community that everyone claim to be again? -
03-02-2017, 07:05 PMBourne_EndeavorSee, I'm the exact opposite. I have met some incredibly nice players on Balmung and very few outright toxic ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexia
Not that I agree with them harassing but... wait for your first rotation? Do you mean to imply not attacking until you've done a full aggro combo? If so, that's a mistake on your part. As a tank, you open with either your ranged aggro ability or aoe chain pull depending on what you're aiming to do. At lower levels, you'll want to spam your aoe aggro ability at least 2-4 times then rotate your combo between mobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltyblast
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03-02-2017, 08:02 PMMature
I don't see that many anymore. Occasionally I see a delusional deluded pro wannabe tell everyone what to do or saying how much DPS he is doing. But this has become very rare nowadays. I'm guessing the kids are growing up.
Apart from that the community in Ultros seems pretty solid and friendly with a good base of friendly and helpful players. -
03-02-2017, 10:02 PMcougarel
Rarely , but they are there. Like someone else said, the bad thing is that they don't even pull their weight , just start bashing x or y. If in the past i didn't say anything, in the last 2 weeks i had to take a stance towards this behavior, because if you're quiet they don't stop. It doesn't matter if it's not about me as I mainly heal or tank, but I can see if someone is doing or not doing specially my party members .
What it's baffling is that instead of providing helpful inside, they only bash the player and stop doing their rotations just to write their vomit on chat.
But hey, overall on Cerberus we have decent and nice players, the other ones will be set aside eventually. -
03-02-2017, 10:30 PMLeigaon
During the slow sessions between major patches to the game it's not bad at all. Well for me I've ran into a lot of nice people now that we can get people from other servers.
When you get to the point we're at now a few things come into play that cause the jerks to come out. Won't go through them all but the way gear / content is set up and mix it up with the mentality of "I need it all now" adds up. We're getting people now who want to have all the relics for 4.0 and just that alone is a frustrating experience if you do it so many times. You're running the same thing multiple times and realize that each job role is essentially the same for 90% of the content, and the bit that is different makes no huge difference. It's at these times I take a nice long break, come back renewed and jump into the beauty again.
The "pull it all" mentality comes from two things, one is that people see others doing it and getting it done faster. Not many people like seeing others do something quicker than them so they jump on board. Also, as you go along you'll notice after so much time if you pull a large group it's the same as pulling a small. The iLV makes things die faster, you're still doing the same AoE rotations.Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyTheSequel
Some later dungeons have things like the archers, people ignore them. Most were mini-tank busters but thanks to the iLV, made it obsolete after so long. This is just another version, DPS need to take those kinds down. I hope they do more of that later, mobs that do damage to random party members to make it harder to heal without it becoming worthless later through iLV.
Cheer up, when we get to 4.0 everyone will be happy! I will! -
03-02-2017, 11:00 PMIstaru
I do not have any problems being kicked from runs. I tank, DPS and heal while DPSing, and while I have seen people with poor attitudes, I usually run with at least enough friends to remove anyone who is being toxic to the party.
Personally, I don't kick bad players that don't do a certain amount of DPS, or won't DPS as a healer or pull everything as a tank. I don't really care that much.
I will kick for the following:- Poor attitude and being hostile
- Cheating the ilvl system by wearing inappropriate accessories
That is about it for me. All I ask is that you try to do your best, even if <500 DPS in a 60 dungeon is your best, and don't be a jackwagon. -
03-02-2017, 11:03 PMmolzilla
I've been noticing a fair bit of attitude/toxicity from player recently, surprisingly moreso from sprouts than anyone else.
Currently in the Novice Network as a returner and had a sprout in the NN who was a tank class (think they had previously stated that they were ex-WOW too) who began complaining that nobody was explaining mechanics to them when they were in dungeons/trials. When I suggested they quickly skimmed a wiki before jumping in so they knew what to do, they threw a minor tantrum at me. Seen a considerable increase in this sort of behaviour since I've re-subbed. -
03-02-2017, 11:09 PMFumaDon't think, know before you make a comment like that, just sounds petty otherwise, lol. And if you're in the middle of a duty and telling someone to go read a wiki it could easily be taken as rude even if you didn't mean it that way. It was new to all of us at one point in time. Next time just try to give them a real simple explanation as fights really aren't that hard to explain until you're doing extreme primals or any of the raids that require some coordination.Quote:
Originally Posted by molzilla
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03-02-2017, 11:16 PMmolzillaI was just saying think as I semi-recalled them saying in Novice Network that they tanked in WoW too. We weren't in a dungeon, just having a discussion in the Novice Network at the time! Probably should've been a little clearer about that, sorry! ^^;Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuma
Edit: edited my original post for a little more clarity! ^_^ -
03-03-2017, 02:39 AMVoltyblastFirst of all, it was Somh Al HM not some lame lower level dungeon where I'm so hindered that I can't even use butcher's block.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
Secondly, I did use tomahawk and even if I didn't, I couldn't keep up because even before using skull sunder (aka the second attack) they already overaggroed like crazy and the guy died because of it: I'm 262 with a 260 relic so unless I totally suck (and I don't considering that I did another dungeon right after totally flawlessly), I can safely say that they didn't allow me to grab enough aggro to keep it stable. And funnily enough, their aggro meters didn't even 1/4 of the bar when I finished my very first rotation, which means something was wrong on their behalf. Plus I have enough tanking experience to see these kinds of mistakes and I wasn't bothered with it: what bothered me is their reaction to such a simple mistake and putting the blame on me.
Or what, are you going to say that it's safe for BLM to use fire 4 right of the bat, WITHOUT quelling strike, and blame it on the tank? ((this is just an example)
And let's assume just for a second that you're right (you're not) and that I did a mistake on how to keep aggro and stuff, are you saying it was right for them to offend me calling me the B word, letting me die for no reason (i was mass pulling like usual: did that before this argument arrived) and then kicking me because of that for absolutely no reason other than to put the blame on me?
Geeze this community IS toxic.... -
03-03-2017, 03:21 AMIstaruYes, I was taught that as a tank, I should keep 100% of the enimity 100% of the time. If I didn't, then it was my fault. No excuses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltyblast
No, unless someone is mouthing off like a "B" or acting like one, they shouldn't be called one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltyblast
No, letting someone die for giggles isn't right unless they were rude or mouthy. If they are, have at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltyblast
No, I already stated when I will kick someone and being bad at their job isn't one of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltyblast
Lastly, no we aren't. Some people are rude or whatever and some aren't. That is life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltyblast
If this is how you judge things then I guess all of humanity must be toxic. I met a white person who is rude, white people are toxic. That lady was mean, all women are toxic, I could go on but you should be able to see this ends up. -
03-03-2017, 03:42 AMVoltyblastI could say the same for dps: I was taught that they should control their own aggro 100% of the time. If they don't, it's their fault. As a BLM I hardly overaggro and I do quite a good job thanks to "certain ways".Quote:
Originally Posted by Istaru
But serious talk here for a moment, no trolling no snarky comments and to prove it I'm using my main so I'm not hiding: mistakes happens and that is a rule of life and as I said before, let's assume I did something wrong (I don't honestly recall but I don't think so and If I did, I apologize in advance): they had no right to blame me like that. I wasn't bothered personally because hey, this is an mmorpg and frankly I expect nothing but awful people from them, FFXIV included. However, considering I asked them to be a little slower ("Let the tank finish the first aggro rotation maybe?" were my exact words), I don't see why they couldn't have done it earlier.
Still I tanked in this since 2.0, where Warriors were "bad", I have 2 tanking mounts, 3512 dungeons completed, 12 coils done (I never cleared turn 13) a Zeta Relic from ARR and completing the new one before the expansion hits, so I can safely say that I know what I'm doing. Sadly, mistakes happen and there might happen a moment, a single moment in these 4 years I played here, that I can commit a mistake and boom such as, I dunno, popping a wrong cooldown or using a wrong skill or anything andsuddenly my aggro is badly done, resulting in someone dying because of it. It's fine, "That is life" as you said and I am ready to apologize for said mistake: I have some dignity and I consider myself humble enough to say sorry when needed.
However you are saying there are no excuses? That a tank cannot do a mistake whatsoever? That a tank is obliged to always do his/her job correctly or they get the beating? That implies an elitistic behaviour and considering the amount of people who tell me that the people in here are "friendly and very reliable", you aren't exactly showing it.
If the guy who overaggroed simply allowed me to just hit with skull sunder at least once, or even finish the rotation, he would be fine but he did a mistake on his aggro. Should I've done better? Maybe, but considering nobody else did this I assumed they were chill. Could've taken aggro faster? Well yeah but it's not always required: I just finished another run of Sohm Al as I write this and I had no issue with aggro whatsoever and they were all well geared (at least 250-260), but hey sometimes mistakes happen and I'm okay with that. What I'm not okay is how a simple mistake automatically assumes you to be a bad player.
And the fact that, according to you, there's no excuse, still implies that the community is, unfortunately, quite toxic because if people were more lenient and actually patient and more flexible, the worst that would've happened was him apologizing for calling me that, I would've said the same, and we'd move on. But instead that did not happen and it only got worse. I may have pushed myself a little too far on reporting however It was unacceptable to treat me like that because of a mistake that I still believe it wasn't on me. I didn't want to end this way but it did.
And yes you might be correct: not everyone is toxic and I can agree with that but only partially, especially considering that in nearly 15 years of mmorpgs (I'm 27) in games like wow, tera, aion, swtor, ragnarok online, pso...I lost count now, I never had issues with other people in most of the other games: the only exception is GW2 which even lead to me quit for how toxic it was (we're talking of death threats to other players kind of bad).
And to be fair, I can judge how I want as long as I don't start bashing or offending others: I can have my own opinion but as long as I don't push on others, why should they care? It's my opinion that the community is "less than stellar", but beside the forums it's not that I'm going online and putting it on a PF and saying to all my server. For all I know you might despise me right now but as long as you don't go on my server and tell me directly or start harassing me, why should I be bothered? -
03-03-2017, 03:58 AMKosmos992kHang on a minute. You're actually condoning people who could not wait 7 seconds before unloading to allow a tank to grab hate? 7 seconds is enough for a basic aggro combo on a high level tank. How was VoltyBlast supposed to gain aggro if everyone opens up the taps on their DPS before a basic hate combo is done?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
I don't know, that 7 or so seconds seems a really short time for folks to be patient, and an inability to wait that long strikes me as pretty toxic. -
03-03-2017, 04:44 AMNewmanxeno
Only place I ever see toxic people is the duty finder (well some random dude called my character the T-Word a few days ago.) I don't think it's that bad. I just blist the people I don't like.