A word to lvl 60 crafters who don't quite understand crafting yet

In my mind, crafting is about making money. And to make money understanding supply and demand and basic economic principles is a must.

I have a good buisness atm selling potions due to ALC but I'm still pretty new to it. But I would say that it is obvious to me that you want to use HQ items and sell HQ products.

so far to me every craft is a math puzzle for efficiency that's fun to work out. I'm not the best at crafting and I definitely started off rough due to misinformation from my FC

If you don't like playing the market game and making stuff for profit it might not be the best thing for you.

(Seriously on Famfrit almost everything on the MB that alc can make is ridiculously profitable to make using the composition materials and 3 minutes)

Hell. Blue yarzan legs sell for 10-20k

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dreggit

Hell. Blue yarzan legs sell for 10-20k

---

Well, Blue Yarzon Legs are sold by a merchant called Z'ranmaia at Limsa Upper Deck (x11,y8) for 375 gil each. You can technically buy a stack, and earn a fortune by selling them on the MB then.

I used to do the same with Finger Shrimps, Cloves and Clear Glass Lens back in the old days of ARR...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dreggit

I have a good buisness atm selling potions due to ALC but I'm still pretty new to it. But I would say that it is obvious to me that you want to use HQ items and sell HQ products.

---

Actually, you want to be able to make HQ products from NQ materials. Even though people generally regard HQ as being more valuable (IE - can get more for them, or have to pay more for them) than NQ, in materials due to undercutting it can go either way. You want to be able to get HQ results from NQ materials in case those NQ materials are the cheapest you can get.

Revenue from sales - production cost = profit. Use of HQ materials can cause the production cost to be higher than it otherwise would be, reducing your profit.

Glad to see you're back, Caimie !

Lots of people here saying stuff like if you want to be the best crafter you can possibly be and touch the stars with your crafting greatness Yada yada then you should never use macros. Well that's great and all, and those who are into that, crack on.

but the fact is most people don't care about that, most people want to make money from crafting and the way to make money from crafting is through quantity, and quantity takes time. I don't play this game to be like a job. The absolute best bit about crafting in this game for me is the fact you can do it while watching Netflix.

I levelled up on macros and I've made a fair bit of money from crafting higher end stuff with macros. Having said that, I do have a working knowledge of crafting abilities and I've learned to play around with macros for best results, but mostly following patterns of well known rotations found on the net. Macros are good!

Self-written macros are good. Macros obtained by scouring the internet, and just copied in without understanding what the lines mean, that is bad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

Self-written macros are good. Macros obtained by scouring the internet, and just copied in without understanding what the lines mean, that is bad.

---

Whatever gets the job done.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by craized

Whatever gets the job done.

---

No. If you can write your own, go for it. If you cannot, then you obviously still have something to learn. Learn it (how to macro, or what moves do, wherever your ignorance lies) then write your own.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

No. If you can write your own, go for it. If you cannot, then you obviously still have something to learn.

---

You're missing the point. If the macro you found on the internet works, then use it. Regardless of wether you know why it works. If it's doing the job you need it to and you are happy with its success rate then who cares if you don't understand it? At the end of the day you are achieveing your goal.

This was certainly the case for me for a long time when I first found a link for a rathe rotation. I only looked into how it worked when I moved onto a more difficult recipe and it stopped working, and I realised I needed to remove a couple of hasty touches and add a couple of careful synths to get it to work with a hit to overall quality. I still use those macros for most of my crafting. And I certainly didn't write those from scratch. But they work, and that's what matters.

And yes learning your abilities and rotations is a good thing, but not the most important and certainly not a requirement to successful crafting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by craized

You're missing the point. If the macro you found on the internet works, then use it. Regardless of wether you know why it works. If it's doing the job you need it to and you are happy with its success rate then who cares if you don't understand it? At the end of the day you are achieveing your goal.

This was certainly the case for me for a long time when I first found a link for a rathe rotation. I only looked into how it worked when I moved onto a more difficult recipe and it stopped working, and I realised I needed to remove a couple of hasty touches and add a couple of careful synths to get it to work with a hit to overall quality. I still use those macros for most of my crafting. And I certainly didn't write those from scratch. But they work, and that's what matters.

And yes learning your abilities and rotations is a good thing, but not the most important and certainly not a requirement to successful crafting.

---

To me, the point of developing your own macro instead of just copying from the internet, was not just about getting the job done. But to actually get it done in the best way that suits your own stats. For instance, if you have 430 CP, but the macro you copied utilizes only 390 CP and consists of 2 parts (each 15 lines), then perhaps you could have gotten the same job done with only a 1 part macro of 15 lines by spending the wasted 40 CP in the rotation. Hence, although you're "getting the job done" with the macro you copied, it is taking twice as long as it could have been. Obviously, you're wasting your own stats and wasting your own time. IMO one could have seek a better way to do things... just a matter of better utilizing what you have by understanding how things work, and putting in a tad bit more thoughts in the rotation... making it "Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger"! :P

But of course, like I said, everybody gotta start somewhere. So copying someone's macro or rotations is a totally valid thing to do at the beginning phase of learning.

Oh absolutely camie. I'm not saying don't learn how to get the most from crafting, I'm just saying you don't NEED to.

I tend to be process driven rather than people (raw talent) driven. I like to make macros that do the complex stuff as a test of what I can do. I'm all about making macros for everything. But you need to understand how crafting works to make good macros. I love the crafting calculators as you can learn how the various parts work together. Using other people's macros when you are new is invaluable, but after a certain point you need to look under the hood and try to figure out how they work. How can they be tweaked to be used in different situations. As Camie said, one rotation may be too long, or too overkill for something else. You should know how to shorten it to make it more efficient.

It is deplorable that the other player in question, who just wanted a rotation, wasn't even willing to use a calculator. I myself find them lots of fun. But then I think learning is fun too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caimie_Tsukino

I am glad you brought this up. I ALWAYS take at least 1 Trick of Trade during that first SH if available :)

The biggest reason for that SH to be up isn't for the Flawless Syn anyway. It is for the PBP. This is because PBP cost 15 CP and 10 durab each, so failing 1 can be quite painful, and failing twice is detrimental. The SH ensures that this does not happen. As for FS, you got like 10 naked FS after the SH anyway, and it's expected to fail a few.

To me, the biggest concern is balancing 3 things: (1) amount of ToT taken, (2) using MaMa steps for CP consuming steps so that you have more room to take ToT, and (3) still having enough FS to get sufficient progress done. Basically, before you take a ToT during MaMa, you ask yourself, do you have room for CP (especially if you already activated CZ, would the last few steps of CZ be wasted?)? If there is room, take the ToT. After taking the ToT, can you create another room for another ToT by sacrificing a MaMa step for a CP-consuming step (usually Inner Quiet) as well as another MaMa step for an anticipated ToT in the near future? I think this sort of complex management is quite fun :)

---

All those acronyms. took me a while to work it out.
Generally speaking I have a crafting system that i came up with quite a while ago. more recently it was pointed out that it's loosly similar in principals at least to what is known as raths rotation. but i have a few differences,

Generally speaking I will use as many tricks of the trades as I get procs. the exception to the rule being if my CP is at maximum or will be at maximum once comfort zone wears off.

The result of this is that there are times where flawless synthesis won't grant me a huge amount of progress and thus I might find I need 4 maybe even 5 carefulls to finish a synth.. (Instead of raths 3.)
Using loose maths its roughly 3 tricks while makers mark is up means I need one more careful to finish which means I can use one less hasty.

The trade off however, is that those 3 tricks mean I can then switch out 3 hasty touches for precise touches or even basic touches if needs be. both of which have a 100% success under steady hand 2

So typically speaking instead of using 4 hasty touches at 80% success I will at some point use 3 precise touches if I get 3 procs (or basics if I'm nearing the end and haven't had precise procs) and replace one hasty with the extra careful synthesis I need to finish..

Best case scenario here is I get 6 stacks of inner quiet instead of the potential 4 from hasty touch (assuming all 4 would have succeeded)
Worst case scenario is I'm guaranteed to get 3 stacks of inner quiet where I might possibly have gotten 4 (again assuming all the hasty would have succeeded)
If I get just one precise and use 2 basics then I break even at 4 stacks of inner quiet. (still assuming all 4 hastys would have succeeded)

I also find that if i get 3 tricks procs I can then swap one steady hand 2 for a steady hand 1, and get a 90% success at upto 4 precise touches (or basics if no precise procs)..

On the slightly lower teir crafts. things like iron works for example I can swap out my clam chowder for sea food stew, and end up being able to use precise / basic touch upto 6 times if I use 3 procs on tricks of the trade.. that's essentially 6 guaranteed basic touches at 100% instead of 7 hasty touches at 80% (and if rngesus granted me procs those 6 basics could all be precise yieleding a maximum 12 stacks of inner quiet.. never happened yet but it's possible and I can dream)

It's generally never a bad idea to use tricks of the trade during flawless. unless you've had extremely bad luck and had a chunk of flawless fails.
On that stuff where makers gives you over 20 stacks I've hit tricks up to to 6 times a few times. just means i need 2 extra carefulls to finish.

Quote:

---

I am lurking around lately, and will likely be fully back to the game in May or June. See you around!

---

That's wonderful! Thank you for all your hard work in the past. Your guide was the main reason I got into crafting into ARR. =) Hope you enjoy Stormblood.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nagoto

That's wonderful! Thank you for all your hard work in the past. Your guide was the main reason I got into crafting into ARR. =) Hope you enjoy Stormblood.

---

Thanks! :)

Ah... Caimie I remember reading one of your guides back in the ARR times. Nice to see that you are also back to the game.
If I look back it was quite the work to get to know how crafting works in this game but it is so much fun once you get the gist of it.

Thanks for helping my unknowing self out back in the day :)

Crafting is pure math, if you can HQ without needing luck (crafting calculators are your friend) there is 0 reason to not using macros. At times people overcomplicate stuff and I don't understand it.

There are no such thing as "Marco" for crafting jobs. Only Normal Craft or Quick Synthesis!!!

My newest master piece... Little Caimie is born today, 6.5 lbs despite a slightly premature delivery! She has sooo much hair!!!!!
http://i68.tinypic.com/12480ti.jpg
Now I'm ready for Stormblood :)
Although, the idea of breastfeeding while crafting is a little bizarre...

Awww, baby! Congrats. :)

hi congrats and welcome back \o/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caimie_Tsukino

My newest master piece... Little Caimie is born today, 6.5 lbs despite a slightly premature delivery! She has sooo much hair!!!!!

---

Nice! You nailed the HQ! :D

Best wishes to you and your new child, Caimie. I assume she'll be joining you in FFXIV when patch 10.0 comes out?

Congratulations on the baby, Caimie :)!