Job Level 1?

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Why should there be a reward at all for something so silly?

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Because not everyone wants to buy an expansion to play the same Sastasha, Thousand Maws of Totalcrap, and Aurum Vale.

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Originally Posted by Blueyes

I want to point out that saying that jobs shouldn't start at level 1 for reasons that going from 1 to 30 (or 1 to 50) is a long and boring experience... it's an irrelevant point to bring up because time investment is tentative. To give a simplified example, let's say going from 30 to 70 requires 100,000 experience points. Now let's say going from 1 to 70 requires 100,000 experience. See what's being said here? The exp curve can always be adjusted so that the time investment remains roughly the same regardless of starting level. However, only one of these options gives the feeling of truly leveling your character from the ground up..

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See, I find continuously adjusting the experience gain defeats the purpose. The easier leveling becomes, the less invented I'll be in it. For example, grinding the jobs I haven't leveled yet through PotD or Beast Tribe dailies is a mindless task I do because it's efficient. I rarely think about, and half the time don't even bother doing the quests associated with whatever job I'm leveling until I'm at 60 or I decide to take it into roulettes. Frankly, the one aspect of PotD I find incredibly dull is leveling. Why? It's so fast, it's rendered meaningless. Compare that to old RPGs where I actually enjoy the same grind-y process. A primary reason is because you'll notice the power difference in linear focused games, whereas in XIV, it doesn't matter due to your playstyle ultimately revolving around a static rotation. Another bigger factor is single player games actively hinder progression or pose a higher challenge if you happen to be underleveled. XIV doesn't. Still using that Esoteric gear from Heavensward's launch? Toss on a little extra from all the extra lore you get or just upgrade and you can do practically everything. Undergeared for that raid? Other players will carry you because they're likely better geared.

The lack of direct incentive to level hurts my personal enjoyment. When I can more or less equip a full set of Ironworks and keep it all the way to 60, leveling, once again, becomes something I do. Not something I feel empowered by. I had fun the first job through because the MSQ accentuated my experience. A few jobs thereafter still retained that fresh feeling. Now that I'm on my fourth and fifth? It exists as something to do and little more. If they aren't going to enrich the experience in some manner. Make it as fast as possible so I can move on to other stuff. At least, that's my current stance.

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Originally Posted by Rennies

Because not everyone wants to buy an expansion to play the same Sastasha, Thousand Maws of Totalcrap, and Aurum Vale.

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Ok, and another mount reward is going to be that much of an incentive? Why bother when you can just palace of the dead every time? Regardless, if you got to entice people with a reward JUST for leveling up without a cheat, you're doing something wrong.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

Or they could sell a level back potion and you could drop down and enjoy :D

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I for one would actually buy this just because I find levelling to be fun and enjoyable content. It's also the reason I have leveled certain jobs on 3 different characters now.

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Originally Posted by Zensho

@ the three ppl that quoted me:

Then SE should sell a level jump 60 or 70 Potion so you don't have to grind, just pay for max level and enjoy. =)

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I don't need a jump potion... I've leveled the 9 ARR jobs from 1 to 60, as well as the HW jobs from 30 to 60. I don't need a jump potion, but when given the opportunity that a dev will provide what is essentially a free jump potion, you know I'm going to take that so I can spend less time on that one job and more time on the rest. And you can enjoy running Sastasha and Basic Training: Enemy Parties all day long. =)

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

High level all the way. Leveling itself isn't fun or engaging. It's just a time barrier to using the job at endgame.

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It's almost as if there should be a punishment for having free reign over several jobs on a whim with one character. I honestly pride myself whenever I manage to reserve the time to cap a class, but knowing a class that I am looking forward to may be in this next expansion, and knowing it'll be handicapped in a way that shreds what fun I could have playing it throughout the list of dungeons in the game is somewhat depressing.

I realize this doesn't stop me from playing the lower dungeons, but that kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

I think...

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But wouldn't that only work for that job? Also, if you are putting all the same actions for every job in the same places, so you really don't have to know the action from name and icon, aren't you just playing all the jobs as the same job? You might as well make macros that say "Combo opening," "Combo action 2," "Combo closer." Yeah, I have patterns on my NIN for what I do, but I know what those actions actually do because I learned them in case I have to change things up.

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Originally Posted by Rennies

Because not everyone wants to buy an expansion to play the same Sastasha, Thousand Maws of Totalcrap, and Aurum Vale.

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But at the same time, won't you be playing the same higher level dungeons over and over? It's like they might as well delete all those areas from the game then. Instead of making an expansion, make yearly games that has new areas except they keep your character on a server.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

I think part of this issue is how people think of their abilities.

I couldn't tell you what most of the names are for the abilities on PLD without looking them up, or even describe their icons. But, I can tell you what hotkey on my bar does what, with remarkable detail. I couldn't tell you the name of the GCD stun or what it looks like on the bar, but I can tell you that it's Ctrl+1. People put a lot of effort into learning their spells the wrong way, I think.

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I do the same thing, certain skills with particular properties like stun get assigned to the same hotkey. I think it's just common sense in this regard lol

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Originally Posted by Dat_Jynx

But at the same time, won't you be playing the same higher level dungeons over and over? It's like they might as well delete all those areas from the game then. Instead of making an expansion, make yearly games that has new areas except they keep your character on a server.

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Would you rather spam the same dungeons with boring mechanics and next to no abilities, or spam new stuff with fresh areas and all your abilities? It's a no brainer.

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Originally Posted by CheshirePuss

It's almost as if there should be a punishment for having free reign over several jobs on a whim with one character. I honestly pride myself whenever I manage to reserve the time to cap a class, but knowing a class that I am looking forward to may be in this next expansion, and knowing it'll be handicapped in a way that shreds what fun I could have playing it throughout the list of dungeons in the game is somewhat depressing.

I realize this doesn't stop me from playing the lower dungeons, but that kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

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Coming pre-leveled is a handicap? That seems like a really strange way of thinking about it. I guess if leveling is what you really care about, then yeah, it's an issue. But, it seems contrary to the entire MMO format, where you max level quickly and then focus on the endgame progression.

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Originally Posted by Dat_Jynx

But wouldn't that only work for that job? Also, if you are putting all the same actions for every job in the same places, so you really don't have to know the action from name and icon, aren't you just playing all the jobs as the same job? You might as well make macros that say "Combo opening," "Combo action 2," "Combo closer." Yeah, I have patterns on my NIN for what I do, but I know what those actions actually do because I learned them in case I have to change things up.

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I think you may have misunderstood what I wrote. I know all of my actions on every job I've played, but I know them by hotkey rather than by name. If I need to use Hallowed Ground, I don't think "I need to use HG. HG is on Shift+R." I think "I need to use Shift+R." It saves a mental step, and makes learning the class easier.

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Originally Posted by Dat_Jynx

But at the same time, won't you be playing the same higher level dungeons over and over? It's like they might as well delete all those areas from the game then. Instead of making an expansion, make yearly games that has new areas except they keep your character on a server.

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Endgame content actually serves a purpose. That's the difference. MMO's are (in general) about the endgame grind, working your way to harder content, and getting better gear once you're level capped. The leveling content is basically just filler to keep you occupied until you get there, with the added benefit of having story.

idk about starting at level 1, but i remember being a bit overwhelmed with my abilities when i 1st got my AST. luckily since it started at 30 i levelled in lower level dungeons so i could learn it better. im not really sure how i feel about RDM starting at 50 either. i really like that gearing it should be easier, but learning 50 levels of abilities and their interactions seems a bit daunting to me.

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Originally Posted by Cyrusskorrey

I enjoy the grind to 30, and it really helps me get a better feel for a class/job.

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Unless you're BLM, where every offensive spell you get changes your rotation

Or DRG, which isn't even functional until cap

Or...

Oh. You main a healer :)

I prefer it started at 50, because it's really time consuming to start at 1, plus RDM is dps role so you know the queue unless you spamming potd. Using "learning" excuses is really ridiculous for me since I play just fine with heavensward jobs which started at 30.

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Originally Posted by NolLacnala

Unless you're BLM, where every offensive spell you get changes your rotation

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Sort of... Fire III is only ever used to give you instant Astral II, likewise with Blizzard III until you get Magick and Mend III. You then get a single target rotation you stick with from level 40 to level 60. Firestarter being a nice trait and Thunder III completely replacing Thunder II.

Your AoE rotation remains the same from the moment you learn Fire II until you learn Flare (which is a closing spell).

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Originally Posted by Nestama

You then get a single target rotation you stick with from level 40 to level 60. Firestarter being a nice trait and Thunder III completely replacing Thunder II.

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Granted, I'm not level 60 BLM myself yet, but I'm ALMOST positive that Fire IV and Blizzard IV change your rotation quite a lot. o.O

The level 60 rotation does change things up (I mis-typed 'until' as 'to'), though if you fumble with Enochian, then you're back to your peasant level 40 rotation.

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Originally Posted by Blueyes

There is also the rule that "new jobs should start at 30 because all jobs start at 30." That is another point that could very well become irrelevant with their plans to eventually dissolve the class system in 5.0. That's going to mean either every single player starting the game will immediately jump to level 30, which I would rather not see, or we're going to start seeing jobs start at level 1.

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current classes will not get dissolve. There will be just no new classes. Sadly it also mean no new DoH and DoL classes.

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Originally Posted by Rennies

Because not everyone wants to buy an expansion to play the same Sastasha, Thousand Maws of Totalcrap, and Aurum Vale.

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Then never do Level Dungeon Roulette.

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Originally Posted by Felis

current classes will not get dissolve. There will be just no new classes

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Pretty sure they've stated that they will eventually fully overhaul the class/job system.

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Originally Posted by Rennies

Pretty sure they've stated that they will eventually fully overhaul the class/job system.

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You are correct. They would like to, in the future, remove combat Classes and replace them completely with Jobs. Apparently, it's just too damn hard to read the game prompts and learn your Job at level 30. So, they'll make it so that you can't screw that up anymore.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

This is gonna sound mean, but what kind of idiot would pick up a class with 30 abilities and not go learn how to play it before going to group content?

If someone can't be bothered to read tooltips and figure out a basic rotation, maybe they should stick to Candy Crush.

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A surprisingly large amount of players do not know (or at least do not care to bother with) their basic rotation.

And it always baffles me when I see a level 50+ BLM using a Fire III and Blizzard III spam rotation :U

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Originally Posted by Zensho

@ the three ppl that quoted me:

Then SE should sell a level jump 60 or 70 Potion so you don't have to grind, just pay for max level and enjoy. =)

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Or you could queue for low level guildhests and dungeons or level sync to low level fates???

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

You are correct. They would like to, in the future, remove combat Classes and replace them completely with Jobs. Apparently, it's just too damn hard to read the game prompts and learn your Job at level 30. So, they'll make it so that you can't screw that up anymore.

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It's also a completely useless system. Classes add nothing of value to the game, it's just flavor text.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Then never do Level Dungeon Roulette.

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Well, doubt SE's gonna change their minds on this "issue" (and thank God for that). I don't wanna spend most of my time waiting for queues in old, irrelevant content when I play Red Mage. That's how you lose subs.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Then never do Level Dungeon Roulette.

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Or, well, what about people who want 'the journey' just do those dungeons regardless their level. ;)

Leveling a dps job (especially when it's hyped and queues are long):
Queue for all low lvl. dungeon around 3-4 times in order while doing fates and leves like 'Out to sea' (16k/min) and a daily levelling roulette (and guildheist).

Once 50, it's levelling/50/trial/MSQ/guildheist.

Or it's PotD right away.

You can have your journey. Just do every dungeon in order (instead of doing them 3x+fates to reach the next).

Een if you start ar lvl. 50, you have to get lvl. 60 first to even start SB MSQ. So just think of those people wjo want to play SB story with RDM.
DPS queues will be horrid anyway.. so giving people more different things to q for other than Haukke manor, lvl. 28, is a wise decision.
No one wants to sit in a 2h q for this one dungeon at SB release... spreading all those RDMs over most of the roulettes/dungeons eases that issue.

i finished reading through all the replies just now, thank you all for the bolstering amount of input. /bow

i would like to make some closing remarks before heading out.

I said the "option" to pick what level you start at. say you want to start at 1, 30, or ,50.
there were quite a few of you that assumed i was suggesting that it would be mandatory.

I love the idea of letting the players who want to start at 50 do so, and i think a jump potion option to players who want to skip leveling would be great.

i also think players who level their class/job in full without jump potions should be rewarded for it. be it glam, items, minions or mounts.

another great idea i saw was the Jump back potion, a potion that sets a job to level 1 would be a nice option to us grind heavy players.

a few of you brought up the Jobs need to start at 30 and no less. mind you, in 5.0 the class system is being removed meaning starting level will be irrelevant.

finally, OMG i loved the comment about how you would rather level a job than gear. this is 100% accurate. some would even say that the real leveling
dosnt start till you are max. im not one of them though. i believe that the leveling process is important in making an all around better player.

alright, like i said before im heading back out now. thank you all for your replies you all brought many great thoughts and opinions to the table.

take care :) and have a wonderful day/night

Leveling potions coming up would like a word, lol
I imagine there will be much players clueless about their job, even moreso then now which is scary

But honestly i do not mind that jobs start at 30 but have to say no to level 1 or 60 like some have mentioned
As someone who has all jobs but astro to 60, i do not wish to start at level 1, i am not that bored

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Originally Posted by Lexia

I wouldn't mind them starting at level one like Rogue/Ninja did cause I do like leveling but I know there lot of people that will throw a fit over it and sure plenty of them will give their displeasure with it here on this thread. I would personally like to see them start no higher then level 30.

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How was Rouge any different from any other class? You start Rouge at lv1 and unlock Ninja at 30 like any other starting class.

I don't know how I feel about RedMage starting out at level 50... my hope would be it would open up at level 30, so those who are new and playing though ARR could switch over to Red Mage at that time, without the worry of having to complete ARR or hit level 50 before switching over.

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Originally Posted by Rinuko

How was Rouge any different from any other class? You start Rouge at lv1 and unlock Ninja at 30 like any other starting class.

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That was my point, the game just didn't give you insta-30 upon unlocking it.

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Originally Posted by Rennies

Would you rather spam the same dungeons with boring mechanics and next to no abilities, or spam new stuff with fresh areas and all your abilities? It's a no brainer.

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I'd rather know what I'm doing in the harder dungeons.

I would absolutely love the option to start new jobs at level 1 instead of 30 or proposed 50. I need time to slowly learn the play style and abilities. Throwing all the available abilities at you at once is overwhelming. Especially since the jobs quests are all lore based and make no effort to try to teach the player anything, save for some of the ninja quests. For those who rather jump start off 30 or 50 that's fine, but as I said for us slower folks who enjoy the leveling process please allow us the chance to play from scratch.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

Endgame content actually serves a purpose. That's the difference. MMO's are (in general) about the endgame grind, working your way to harder content, and getting better gear once you're level capped. The leveling content is basically just filler to keep you occupied until you get there, with the added benefit of having story.

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Endgame is all still just gear grinding. You're doing the same places over and over again and (with some people) complaining about not going through them fast enough because of noobs. I don't know, I'm in that group that actually likes leveling. I leveled most of the jobs in FFXI and didn't do much endgame. Same on 14. I still have to do Sohr Khai and never stepped in Alexander. But back to endgame serving a purpose. What is it? Getting gear that will be obsolete in the next patch?