For stormblood do you want the gated conten path of hw, or the free roam path of arr?

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Originally Posted by Amirya

Then take your time as a gatherer. .

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You are missing my point I said I could see that if there was like this amazing content on the other side of completing the story but there isnt one. I should be able to get my gear for my sixty character now because it has nothing to do with the story at all but I cant because Im story locked. The game makes leveling easy as pie, so if you are of level why do you have to do the story to do stuff that isnt even tied to the story. My example was in arr I did quest for my jobs that put me in the imperial base but I was no where near that part in the story did that mess up the lore no it didnt, do other players no what point of the story Im at no they dont so what does it matter.

I love the story I dont want to have to finish all of the story to do things that I dont love like getting gear, and stuff that is boring without having any story left o. I was simply saying that I thought that the way Arr was set up was better than how gated hw was set up. Hw is gated from the very start its like they took a step back and said lets make things less accessible than we did in the original game all I was saying is give the same option to free roam in like you can in arr in the next expansion instead of how its set up in hw and let people get around to the story when they see fit instead of a straight path only.

And the explanation for being in said areas would be you are an adventurer that's what you do explore you dont have to have some specific meaning to it. And to speak of lore there is no logical reason how a whm can be a ninja , or how a blm can be a warrior with an ax but yet everyone levels all jobs on one. The game does a horrible job at explaining this outside of that your an adventurer so why cant that be reason enough to have access to any area in the game.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

And the explanation for being in said areas would be you are an adventurer that's what you do explore you dont have to have some specific meaning to it. And to speak of lore there is no logical reason how a whm can be a ninja , or how a blm can be a warrior with an ax but yet everyone levels all jobs on one. The game does a horrible job at explaining this outside of that your an adventurer so why cant that be reason enough to have access to any area in the game.

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I don't see why being capable at multiple skills is an issue. Especially given that the player character is the obviously 'gifted' Warrior of Light, a special case, an adventurers adventurer, in possession of the Echo, and able to kill Primals. Mastering multiple arts seems like a minor milestone compared to killing Primals.

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Originally Posted by Ragology

Gated content helped keep the rmt from flooding the heavensward areas.

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This! Right now the only place I can avoid rmt party invite spam is by going in to a HW area. When I go to any of the 1.0 towns/areas its /say spam rmt adverts and party invite spam so I immediately have to go on /busy or set up a party with my choco.

Also the thing is with one or the other: If the system depends on dungeons/instances for leveling, they tend to not create content that will draw players away from dungeons and they consistently need to keep creating content that will encourage end gamers to repeat the dungeons so that newer players can still use them to exp. No sure its possible to do open world/free roam while simultaneously having an exp system that is dependent on instanced content.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I don't see why being capable at multiple skills is an issue. Especially given that the player character is the obviously 'gifted' Warrior of Light, a special case, an adventurers adventurer, in possession of the Echo, and able to kill Primals. Mastering multiple arts seems like a minor milestone compared to killing Primals.

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But their abilities dont really branch off of each other enough for me to actually do all 13 on one , and most other games you just do one class per character but I like this option for the player base I just chose to go against the grain having 4 characters in total. I come from swtor , and to me how the system is , is like a jedi being able to be a trooper or a smuggler, and a secret agent at the same time doesn't make sense to me.

And in this game it would make sense to me if npcs actually mention how great your power was that you could master all of these skills, but they don't just call you the warrior of light and call it a day. If you are a whm they refer to you as a whm, if you are palidan they refer to you as a palidan , they dont even bring up what sub classes you have to level to even get your job you have to find that out from other players or google. So they really didnt do a good job lore wise at all on this, and the play styles are so different with hardly any cross over aside from buffs or something like that , that the jobs are 100 percent different , the only way it makes sense is if you over look this or if you just make up your own rp.

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Originally Posted by Aramina

I didn't find either the base game or HW to be more or less restrictive than the other.

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Which ARR zones were locked behind having to complete one zone before even being able to enter the next? I can remember Isles of Umbra, that's all.

ARR was free-form exploration, HW was rail-tracked exploration of the type I personally loathe.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

But their abilities dont really branch off of each other enough for me to actually do all 13 on one , and most other games you just do one class per character but I like this option for the player base I just chose to go against the grain having 4 characters in total. I come from swtor , and to me how the system is , is like a jedi being able to be a trooper or a smuggler, and a secret agent at the same time doesn't make sense to me.

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That's because this isn't SWOTR...also, correct me if I am wrong, but Luke, a Jedi master, also happens to be an excellent star fighter pilot, and well versed in ground combat also.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

And in this game it would make sense to me if npcs actually mention how great your power was that you could master all of these skills, but they don't just call you the warrior of light and call it a day. If you are a whm they refer to you as a whm, if you are palidan they refer to you as a palidan , they dont even bring up what sub classes you have to level to even get your job you have to find that out from other players or google. So they really didnt do a good job lore wise at all on this, and the play styles are so different with hardly any cross over aside from buffs or something like that , that the jobs are 100 percent different , the only way it makes sense is if you over look this or if you just make up your own rp.

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Well, I don't know It's been a while since I did many of the class and job quests, but it always seemed to me that we were considered a protege of unusually high ability. It would be hard to add branching dialog for all of these quests to adequately accommodate the many combinations of jobs/classes a player might have, so the text is written to avoid referencing that directly. I think you're looking for a problem that doesn't exist here.

Its always been gated in FFXI.
You couldn't go to hall of gods and pass the gate without beating the pot and getting the key item to go through the gate.

You couldn't get your level unless you beat maat in a 1 on 1 duel.

FFXIV is the same way, you cannot unlock extreme fights unless you beat some first.
You can't just go passed all the coils without winning them first.

Its gated all around and the expansions are no different.

People who ask for a free pass are the ones who would probably buy those boost potions, I say if that's the case why play the game? you pass all content its the same as gameshark cheaters, buy game cheat on the game and claim you won legit.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

Its always been gated in FFXI.
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I dont think you read what I actually said I didn't say stream line msq content or dungeons for people that arent in that place in the game. Im not asking to do extreme primal s I haven't done in the story yet. Im simply sayin just like in arr when I was level 44 I could do dd, when I was level 38 I could do cutters cry because the areas wernt gated behind a flying current like stuff in hw is.

Im over leveled I have a level 60 and I havent done much hw , all Im sayin is let me do my job quest like I did in arr, let me do the 8 dungeons that are optional and do the story when I wana do the story. It wasn't a problem in arr so why would it be a problem in future expansions. Let people get their gear without having to finish the story if they are level 60 already, how is that wanting to get a free pass if anything thats doing extra because u got to sixty before doing any dungeons above level 50. Im simply saying is I would rather save story than blow through it to get to an endgame thats boring and repetitive when I can do some of the same dungeons as everyone else that are optional without having to finish the story itself. You get nothing for finishing the story but an endgame that everyone complains about so why would I wana be forced to blow through it.

the only things that should not be restricted are the jobs/classes.

You are not being forced to do it. You choose to feel that way.

Why should the npcs take you at more than face value? What on earth could possibly make them wonder, "I see you wear the robes of a healer... I BET YOU'RE A MASTER MONK TOO!!!!"

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

Its always been gated in FFXI.

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Gated to some extent, anyway. You could still enter the new expansion zones to unlock the new jobs and such without even having to beat the Shadow Lord.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

Im over leveled I have a level 60 and I havent done much hw , all Im sayin is let me do my job quest like I did in arr, let me do the 8 dungeons that are optional and do the story when I wana do the story. It wasn't a problem in arr so why would it be a problem in future expansions.

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You're in the minority on that one, as most players will be progressing through the 3.0 MSQ while leveling to 60. ARR didn't gate the zones because they weren't gated in 1.0, and you've already been given the reason why the Heavensward zones are gated behind the MSQ.

I'd also like to point out that every optional lvl 50 ARR dungeon is locked behind the 2.0 MSQ.

A level 15 MSQ gates access to and from La Noscea and Limsa Lominsa.

Don't tell people "I'm 50 and only on 25 MSQ and ARR is entirely free roam" .. you passed that gate. You passed the gate that allows you to take on multiple classes. You passed the gate that allows you to take on jobs (I forget if there is a level 22 or 23 MSQ for that, but you certainly need to be able to visit other cities for the 15'd class for your job).

Now, can you go everywhere in ARR once you've gotten past that certain level 15 MSQ gate? Pretty much, though surviving it might be difficult. It is certainly possible (though not exactly recommended or wise) to walk from Gridania to Uldah, or the other way, at level 1 if you desired. Obviously, most of the instances are locked behind MSQ, but for the world content, you can mostly get there after that 15 MSQ.

Can you do that in HW? OF COURSE NOT! There are MANY MMO's out there that gate, in some manner or form, access to expansion content. Level locks, keys, flags, progression, raid progression even. In HW's case, they lock access to Ishgard's two zones behind having HW and beating 2.55. They then lock the rest of the HW zones, even partial zones, off by progression. This is standard expansion fare.

I rather expect Stormblood to be similarly progression-locked. I actually somewhat expect Stormblood to be locked behind completing Heavensward's content, just as Heavensward was locked behind A Realm Reborn's content. They would have to come up with a brand new story, either tied in at a much lower level or not tied in to existing story at all, for them to have an expansion not locked behind the previous expansion's content, I think. And this may be a stretch, but I don't expect something like that before 6.0 or 7.0 ... not if they were dropping hints that stuff like taking the fight to the Garleans, and visiting Garlemald, might occur in 5.0, but not earlier.

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

A level 15 MSQ gates access to and from La Noscea and Limsa Lominsa.

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I have no issue with storm blood being locked behind hw , what my issue is , like I said a few times is the zones being locked in hw. From what Ive been reading many people dont want the jobs locked in the new expansion either. Because like I said with gating you force the players hand what if someone wants to just do msq bit by bit instead of all the way through in a straight line like hw is making you do. Would you say that there is less longevity in doing the story as you see fit are having to do the story to do somethings you may want to do. A person who is going to not rush the story is more than likely gona be a person that wants to put hours upon hours into the game play. Where as if you rush straight through after you get your gear and do a few extreme primals if you arent raiding what is there left for you to do at that point?

When I joined this game back in ARR and leveled to 50 as quickly as possible via dungeon and FATE spam, I was pretty damn angry that my friends didn't tell me that basically everything in the end-game was gated behind the MSQ.

Just off the top of my head, I had issues capping tomestones because EX roulette was MSQ locked, the CT chain was MSQ locked, Coil was MSQ locked, Relic was MSQ locked, a lot of relevant primals and their EX versions were MSQ locked, etc.

Basically I got to 50 and had nothing to do because my MSQ was stuck at level 20 or something.

So yea, ARR was probably a bit more free. It really didn't matter, though. Everything I cared about was still gated behind the MSQ just like it is in HW.

So I disagree with the basic premise of this topic. Seems to be a common theme with this TC's topics, though.

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So I disagree with the basic premise of this topic. Seems to be a common theme with this TC's topics, though.

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What does "TC" mean? FWIW, I think HW's progression through the MSQ is simply more honest than ARR's was. I got to the early 40's and then everything basically stalled out until I proggressed the MSQ. At which point everything stalled out again until 50 at which point there was a flood of things to do. I'd have much preferred a smoother MSQ-oriented progression. Maybe I'll change my mind once I hit 60, but that's a ways away still.

TC= Topic Creator. :)

[QUOTE=Brian_;3962191]When I joined this game back in ARR and leveled to 50 as quickly as possible via dungeon and FATE spam, I was pretty damn angry that my friends /QUOTE]

Because for some reason like simple things in the game bothers everyone for some reason or another, like you said you ran out of stuff to do but did it hurt anyone that you leveled up to 50 and roamed anywhere you wanted no I really dont think that it did. If you got rid of the zone locks who is it effecting noone its not effecting peoples gaming experience to want to be able to step foot in a zone just because of lore.

I was told that I couldn't glam until I was level 50 so I got to level 50 because that was something I wanted to do, and the msq quest was gona be there it will always be there to do. So me being in mor dona didnt hurt anyone, just like people that hadn't done all of hw story being in a level 60 zone if they are level 60 wouldn't effect the game at all. What Im mostly just seeing is people want things to just remain exactly the same and dont accept any change, there is a reason why this game isnt in the top ten most profitable mmos right now. And I love the game best game Ive ever played but people complain about the cash shop they complain when , prism go to one instead of five. Like it makes no sense how something so small as being able to take your horse and go into a zone that you didnt unlock through msq would even be an issue but I guess it is its just pretty silly to me.

Correct me if I am wrong, but...

Ignoring the sub-50 optional dungeons in ARR (which many brand-new people actually don't know about, because they aren't directed to them in any way, shape, or form in the MSQ--and even those that do tend to hate those dungeons with a passion, particularly AV), the level 50 dungeons that were unlocked via sidequests and not during the main 2.x patches are still gated behind the last 2.0 main scenario quest ("The Ultimate Weapon"). Just like the optional dungeons in HW are gated behind the last 3.0 quest ("Heavensward"). So, in ARR, you couldn't have a level 50 character still on the level 32 MSQ about to unlock Brayflox Longstop, and go unlock Lost City of Amdapor, or Haukke Manor Hard Mode, and start farming for poetics or gear. I bring this point up because you asked in one of your posts about wanting to access the optional 60 dungeons so that you can start gearing up your 60 jobs. HW does not have any optional dungeons for you to unlock during the main 3.0 story like ARR did, but the dungeons you seem to be asking for are gated in a similar way that the level 50 dungeons were. So there really is no difference there.

It's been a while since I played through the later half of ARR, and the 2.x patches, but aside from being able to wander off into Coerthas Central and Mor Dhona at level 1, I really can't find many differences between the two. So you can't travel to Idyllshire or Azys Lla when you're a fresh 50 entering Ishgard for the first time. You can't, because it doesn't make sense lore-wise. Azys Lla isn't known to exist by many, and there's a big deal about actually breaking into it during the MSQ. So, it would make sense for you to not be able to just waltz right in there. Like JunseiKei pointed out, the story and the lore in FFXIV are extremely important. This is Final Fantasy after all, a franchise that has always focused heavily on the individual game's stories and lore.
(Fun fact: The NA store sold out of the lore book in less than 30 minutes on the day it released. That's how much people care about the lore in this game.)

I also don't think they could have gated ARR areas in any way, given that it probably wouldn't have made sense for Legacy players. "Hey, we know that you had access to Mor Dhona in 1.0, but you can't go there anymore unless you complete this, this, this, and this first." Of course, I never played 1.0, and I am not a Legacy player, so this is just speculation/mild rambling.

Sure, in ARR, you could be on the level 25 MSQ and do your level 50 BLM quest. But, the game was still designed with the intent that you would be close to the ending of the 2.0 MSQ, and not still in your starting city-state, or still hanging out in Little Ala Mhigo in the midst of the mid-20s MSQ quest chain. Also, I think it's worth noting that back when 2.0 was still fresh and new, the experience gained from MSQs and dungeons was not nearly as buffed as it is now. Even in the year that I've played, the experience buff in ARR has gotten even bigger (what with the HoN and the Brand New Ring).

With the jobs being gated behind HW, I know there's a lot of controversy around that. But, if you pay attention, the stories wouldn't make sense if you could unlock them right off the bat. Aside from the fact that none of the 3 jobs have a starting class (since SE is moving away from the class system), it's also worth noting that some stories mention events that didn't occur during the original 2.0 story line, or take place in places you can't access in ARR. Take the 30-50 DRK storyline. The level 45 quest mentions Leviathan, which was Patch 2.2. The level 50 quest mentions the Bloody Banquet in Ul'dah, which was Patch 2.55. None of these would make sense if you could unlock the job after hitting level 30 in 2.0. Aside from the fact that you can't access Ishgard, because, as noted several times in the story, Ishgard shuns outsiders, and closed itself off from the rest of Eorzea (and remember, you had to prove your worth to even get in there in the first place--The Steps of Faith). Again, the importance here on lore.

With HW, I think they're trying to enforce pacing yourself leveling WITH the story. Because, again, of the importance SE and the Final Fantasy name has always put on the story and the lore in their games. I understand not wanting to rush the story; no one here is forcing you to do that. But you seem to be pressuring yourself to finish it so that you can start gearing up your level 60 jobs that were already way ahead of the story itself before you entered Ishgard. There is no outside pressure. And, unfortunately, there will come a time when you catch up to the story, and will have to join the rest of us that are waiting for the next patch or the next expansion. There's no way around that...unless you unsubscribe for a couple of months, and then come back when there is more content.


Also, sorry if these points were mentioned elsewhere--I only read the first couple pages of this thread before I started formulating a response to it.

Concerning Heavensward, I was also a bit annoyed I could not use by DoH classes on the new region without having to unlock it thru the MSQ.

That aside, the "gates" I did not like on Heavensward were the one where you need to participate to a Duty, because I was like enjoying the MSQ and Side Quests, then boom "You can't go further until you complete X Duty".... and so great, it's not server peak time and i'm stuck watching the Duty queue timer without any possibility to progress further meanwhile.

Of course that's new, it was same on ARR, but at least every ARR region were totally opened once you unlocked airship city travel so you could explore around, and there was lot of new stuff to do between all the classes and side quests.

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Originally Posted by Chocolys

That aside, the "gates" I did not like on Heavensward were the one where you need to participate to a Duty, because I was like enjoying the MSQ and Side Quests, then boom "You can't go further until you complete X Duty".... and so great, it's not server peak time and i'm stuck watching the Duty queue timer without any possibility to progress further meanwhile.

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Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your post, but that was still the case in ARR. You couldn't complete the level 15 quest "It's Probably Pirates", and progress any further in the MSQ until you entered and completed Sastasha via the Duty Finder. So, I don't really see how that's any different from the duty gates in Heavensward.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Correct me if I am wrong, but...
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I just really hate how my topic got on hw instead of the actual question that I asked, we dont know what is in storm blood we dono how the devs could be more open with how you get around the zones. I simply asked do people prefer how gated hw is over how its not in arr, I wasnt tryin to have a drawn out conversation on why hw is gated the way that it is. It was a simple do you want to have to unlock fly currents to travel in the zones are do you just wana be able to walk anywhere you please regardless of what point you are in the story.

And I also wasn't refering to the optional dungeons of the 100 quest in between arr and hw because thats kinda its own thing. I mention four dungeons being vale and the others, and I mention how dusk vigil the first dungeon is gated for no reason. Hw is set up already it is what it is, I was simply wondering if people wanted more gated content like hw in the next expansion are a little bit more freedom, not whether hw should be gated or not.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your post, but that was still the case in ARR. You couldn't complete the level 15 quest "It's Probably Pirates", and progress any further in the MSQ until you entered and completed Sastasha via the Duty Finder. So, I don't really see how that's any different from the duty gates in Heavensward.

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I was editing my post while you were replying, what I added was:

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Of course that's new, it was same on ARR, but at least every ARR region were totally opened once you unlocked airship city travel so you could explore around, and there was lot of new stuff to do between all the classes and side quests.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

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Your thread probably evolved into the comparisons between ARR and HW because you mentioned which do people prefer, and most people didn't really see huge differences between the two aside from the glaringly obvious ones (accessing Ishgard, the 3.0 jobs, flying, etc.). You also mentioned gated content, and others responded with the reasons why that content was gated in the first place. Doesn't answer your original question, no, but they were still addressing your opening post.

With regards the the areas, myself and others explained that some had to be gated for story and lore purposes. Because, again, Final Fantasy is a story-driven franchise, and FFXIV is no different with regards to that. The 2.0 areas were not originally gated because that wouldn't make sense for the 1.0 Legacy players, and they're the reason 2.0 even exists. And 2.0 still had it's own miniature gates: the pre-level 10 where you cannot join other guilds, pre-level 15 where you are confined (unless you walk a particularly dangerous journey) to your starting city-state, and the MSQ "Sylph-management" so you can start unlocking jobs.

And I know that you were originally talking about the pre-50 optional dungeons in ARR. But you also mentioned wanting to gear your jobs that were already level 60 despite NOT being finished with the 3.0 story, and it is worth noting that, even if you have 3 level 50 jobs before you finish the original 2.0 story, you still cannot access the content needed to gear them in ARR. Something that was copied over into HW, and something that with likely be copied over into SB. Because that is not the way this game was designed. It was designed with the idea that the player is leveling up their main job WITH the story, not AHEAD of it.

It's kinda sad that cities in expansions will never, ever be a place for seasonal/special events. Ishgard is never going to be colourful, nor a place to go to for event quests.

There is lots of gating in both HW and ARR - and not only gating by MSQ.

Not only are some of the HW zones completely blocked off for no good reason. (No, general Ishgardian distrust of you is not a good reason - these are zones outside Ishgard's control. Places like Dravanian Hinterlands or Churning Mists are not exactly secret locations either.)

Far more annoying than the gating by MSQ is the gating of many quests by other quests - even when there is no obvious story-related reason for them to be gated.
Some of the MSQ-gating makes little sense either. Take for example the Postmoogle quests: Is there any real reason to have them gated behind the quest "The Ultimate Weapon"?

Some gating makes sense - when a quest refers to events in a previous quest, or when you need special permission or information before you can enter an area, but in my opinion there is far, far too much of it in this game - and much of it completely unnecessary.

Story and lore, the devs put so much effort into those. Have to commend them for that.

HOWEVER, having said that... First building a story & lore and then designing game mechanics around those is in my opinion the wrong way of doing things. Fun gameplay should always come first and the story should be built around it. That's why I think lore is the weakest and worst excuse for setting arbitrary barriers and limitations for the player, taking away some of the fun in the game. Level-gating areas or dungeons is perfectly fine in my opinion. I'd be fine with some trial kind of tests too to enter harder dungeons "Prove you're mighty enough for this task!"

But gating almost everything behind one tedious quest chain which makes you complete the content exactly the way and in the order the devs intended "because story"... It just smells like bad game design to me even if the story is good. In tabletop role-playing games that's called railroading and is seen as a very bad thing. I enjoyed 1-50 very much. 50-60 was a chore and I did not like it at all. I think I might have enjoyed the story at least somewhat if I had had the same amount of freedom I had in the ARR areas and story. The HW story became the antagonist in the game for me, I couldn't care less about the story characters or what happened to them. I don't think that's what the devs intended to happen.

Now where did I put that Nomex suit of mine...

People point out that gaining access to Azys Lla is something of a big deal to the MSQ. Well, it was not the Allagans, but getting past the Dragons to go to Churning Mist was equally big a deal - you, the WoL and party, are the first that are neither dragon nor moogle to set foot there in a very long time. The MSQ did not make as big a deal of it, but lore-wise, it was as big a deal.

The only gates in HW I disagree with are the gates between Forelands and Hinterlands, and between Coerthas Western Highlands and the Sea of Clouds. The former, I think you should be able to walk through (all the way to Idyllshire, though you should not find much of anything there as yet). The latter, I think you should be able to walk through, but unless you can fly, the only things to do are turn around or teleport.

Otherwise, all the gates make sense given the story.

As do others in this thread, I question whether ARR qualifies as ungated. The vast majority of instanced content (trials, raids, dungeons) in ARR are locked behind Main Scenario. While you're free to roam the zones, there's not much to actually DO in those zones since there is so little overworld content in this game.

That said, I do agree that moving AWAY from MSQ gated content would be a wise move on SE's part. The longer MSQ gets with each expansion, the more daunting it becomes for new players if most of the things they'd like to do are gated behind it. MSQ should be something players can do at their leisure, while simultaneously enjoying other aspects of the game, not something they feel obligated to bull through because until they do they're essentially playing a one-player MMO.

The extreme gating in Heavensward was a step in the wrong direction, in my opinion. The movement should be toward LESS gates, not more. There should be actual endgame options that do NOT depend on MSQ, or at least, not on much MSQ. There needs to be plenty of activities for players to participate in that they can do at all stages of their MSQ progress.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

The extreme gating in Heavensward was a step in the wrong direction, in my opinion. The movement should be toward LESS gates, not more. There should be actual endgame options that do NOT depend on MSQ, or at least, not on much MSQ. There needs to be plenty of activities for players to participate in that they can do at all stages of their MSQ progress.

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This game is too heavily story-based for them to stop gating behind MSQ. Personally, I do not expect them to stop this "extreme gating" at least until 6.0, unless they make the fight against Garlemald take more than one expansion (which would push it out further).

Granted, we are only on the first expansion and wondering about the second. However, they have yet to attempt an expansion that has a story not connected to the existing MSQ. Until they do so, we will have expansions locked behind previous expansion completion.

As far as "end game activities not locked behind MSQ" .. max level activities are not necessarily end game activities. End game activities are, by definition, activities done at or after the end of the game. Its not an activity done during the middle! Its rather silly to request end-game activities not gated behind (nearly) completing the game, at least as much as is possible at the time ...

But other activities not locked behind (much) MSQ content? They are providing most of those via the Gold Saucer. Chocobo Racing? Lord of Verminion? Triple Triad? Most of the GS activities have been abandoned by players as being stupid and/or pointless, but they are still there. So too is PVP, though I'm not sure how much level plays a part in that as I don't partake.

Don't get me wrong though. I agree, eventually they are going to have to produce expansions that are not gated behind already-existing MSQ. I just do not expect them to do so until after the Garlemald situation is wrapped up, which means AFTER 5.0 ... so 6.0 at the earliest.

Story and lore. The optional dungeons still have their lore. It's like when an npc tells you to go back to a tower for a hard mode but if you never been in the original version it wouldn't make sense

free roam to me is, do anything whenever you want, no unlocking needed to do such content, yet tell me, what you need to do dungeons?, reach to a certain part of the msq or reach a certain level to unlock them right?, and the leves?, same, you need to reach a certain part of the msq, and after that, to unlock aditional leve areas you need to reach the specific level, and fates?, you could dare to do a lvl 50 fate whit a lvl 15 character all alone?, not me, what about beastmen tribes?, same as before, msq locked

so to me arr did never had true free roam

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Originally Posted by Xau

free roam to me is, do anything whenever you want, no unlocking needed to do such content, yet tell me, what you need to do dungeons?, reach to a certain part of the msq or reach a certain

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Free roam in the sense that once I started my job quest I could do all of them without them being gated , every class one through 50 with as much as getting a chocobo and taking a break from the story. Making each job quest my story in turn something I could do each day and keep myself occupied. Also once you pick up any gatherer you had free roam to travel all the way to north thal and get whatever matts you wanted to without little concern of where you were in the story. See the thing is I haven't done hw yet because Id rather wait til 3.5 comes out to see how much content comes out so I can be behind the fray Im determined to not just be farming for gear with my play time that sounds like zero fun to me.

So that being said I dont know exactly how the job quest tie in with the story. My question was which set up did people prefer whether it was gated or not arr still gave the player more freedom in doing things unrelated to the story than hw does. And this is simply because of the gated flying zones, which cut you off from job quest, fates, hunts, leves, optional dungeons , gear and prob other things. Ok so the gate for arr is level 15, that's one gate , the gates pile up in hw , you don't do one quest and then you have free roam you are locked at every turn and have no freedom like you did in arr. I was saying I personally would prefer them to go back to the arr frame work at least make any zone accessible and let the player decide how they want to play

Honestly I am FOR the gating in FFXIV. It gives a clear sense of character progression and some sense of accomplishment as you progress through the story. Don't get me wrong, I looooove openworld sandbox games but FFXIV is not one and I play other things when I want to roam free.

Also as others have mentioned it allows for the story to be told in a coherent way. I expect Stormblood to be no different.

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Originally Posted by Pyretta_Blaze

Honestly I am FOR the gating in FFXIV. It gives a clear .

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Yes the story but job quest an going to a different area on the map isnt effecting the story in the slightest, the thing is everyone doesn't want to immediately go to endgame right off the bat if you lock everything behind story even the optional things you have no choice. When storm blood comes out you will have people that will have beat it within a month or two and will began complaining about it not being enough content in the game well its because you spammed it and did it all that's why. The arr approach gives you a chance to where you could could take months and months finishing the story longevity is the key to more money for the game where as those who spam are the ones who end up taking breaks and come back every patch for content and then take another break. If you don't gate things people can play the game how they want to.

You're whining about something you haven't even done? Seriously?

I had been under them impression that you had completed through 3.0, not that you're blindly ignorant of it all.

It's gated. You can't accidentally stumble upon Azys Lla. You can't possibly explain to Ishgard why you're roaming in heretical territory, because, "Miner of Light!!!" Is more likely to get you expelled from the Holy See's lands.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

Yes the story but job quest an going to a different area on the map isnt effecting the story in the slightest, the thing is everyone doesn't want to immediately go to endgame right off the bat if you lock everything behind story even the optional things you have no choice. When storm blood comes out you will have people that will have beat it within a month or two and will began complaining about it not being enough content in the game well its because you spammed it and did it all that's why. The arr approach gives you a chance to where you could could take months and months finishing the story longevity is the key to more money for the game where as those who spam are the ones who end up taking breaks and come back every patch for content and then take another break. If you don't gate things people can play the game how they want to.

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I think they probably know more than we do in regards to "more money for the game".

Huh? Lol Last I checked, if you start in Limsa, you still do have to do the story up to 15 to get to any of the other city states.

A lot of things are locked behind the MSQ.

Job skills were always locked behind story (Albiet the job story) Class skills were the only ones that you got from just leveling.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

And in this game it would make sense to me if npcs actually mention how great your power was that you could master all of these skills, but they don't just call you the warrior of light and call it a day. If you are a whm they refer to you as a whm, if you are palidan they refer to you as a palidan , they dont even bring up what sub classes you have to level to even get your job you have to find that out from other players or google. So they really didnt do a good job lore wise at all on this, and the play styles are so different with hardly any cross over aside from buffs or something like that , that the jobs are 100 percent different , the only way it makes sense is if you over look this or if you just make up your own rp.

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How can you complain that it doesn't make sense lore wise and then be complaining that the HW stuff is story gated... FOR LORE REASONS! I'm confused.

Edit; Like. I donno. "Warrior of light" will do just fine for me.

I don't need someone to boost my ego.

I'd rather them condense it, rather than have to write a ton of different lines like...

"WOW YOU'RE A WARRIOR, PALADIN, DARK KNIGHT, WHITE MAGE, SCHOLAR, BLACK MAGE, SUMMONER, BARD, MACHINIST, DRAGOON, MONK, NINJA."

I think that those who are talking about the optional endgame content (things like Hildibrand, Postmoogle, Scholisticate, etc.), need to also consider that THAT content was designed with the level cap (50 for some, 60 for others) in mind, and were designed to give those that had completed the 2.0 or 3.0 MSQ something to do while they waited for the next patch/next expansion. They were NOT added into the game so that someone who was only on the quest "Sylph-management" but was somehow level 50 could go off and do the quests.

Again, FFXIV is a game designed in such a way that a player levels up their character WITH the story, not AHEAD of it. Poor design choice or not, it follows the way the other Final Fantasy games were designed. In FFX, we knew about Zanarkand. We knew it was a wasteland. But we couldn't just waltz right into Zanarkand. Aside from the stronger enemies along the way, there was also a story to be told on the way there. And while the two games aren't completely the same, the concept of "the story" is still there for FFXIV. There's a story to be told on your way to Sea of Clouds, and on your way to Azys Lla, which, again, being that it's surrounded by a barrier and no one has set foot there in thousands of years, it wouldn't make sense for you to just be able to waltz right in there. I understand wanting to be able to roam and explore areas, but I find it exciting if you reach an area, and there's a gate there (take Idyllshire for example), and you have to level up to gain access to the area and open that gate. Gives me something to work towards, and new content to explore once I get closer to cap.

This game was also not designed to be centered around crafting or gathering jobs. While it sucks your crafters and gatherers hit a roadblock at 50, and you can't just walk into Ishgard and start crafting up a storm in there, or start gathering Gaelicatnip in the Hinterlands, this game is combat-driven first, tradecraft-driven second. The Weaver of Light wouldn't stand a chance against the Ultima Weapon or King Thordan or the Warring Triad or the primals. I know a lot of people play this game for the crafting aspect, but it wasn't designed for players to ignore the MSQ and focus solely on crafting.

There will come a time when the devs won't be able to continue locking expansions behind other expansions, as that will be turn off for new players. When that will be, however, no one can really say. I've heard that the earliest we'll make it to Garlemald is 6.0, so perhaps after then, since the story in this game always comes back to the Empire and their quest to conquer Eorzea. But there will probably still be some of gating in future expansions, in the sense that you will still need to pay attention to the story rather than start doing "endgame" or "level-capped" activities.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

every class one through 50 with as much as getting a chocobo and taking a break from the story.

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Chocobo use, heck mounts in general, are locked indirectly behind MSQ. You need to progress enough in the MSQ that you are forced to join a Grand Company. Once you have done that, My Little Chocobo opens up as a side quest from your GC. Complete that quest to get your Company Chocobo, and the ability to use mounts in this game.

So, what you want to do IS ALREADY GATED.

I did not include it as part of the quotation, but stop dilly dallying. You can only open things up to do (such as gathering your own materials for high level crafting) by working on the HW story. Oh, ALL of HW's optional dungeons are locked behind completion of 3.0, at a minimum. There are no optional dungeons for 51-59, each one of the five dungeons under 60 in HW is a story dungeon. Some of the level 60 dungeons are optional, some are story dungeons.

But, other than the two gates I mentioned in HW in a previous post, all the rest of the gates in HW *make sense* ... but you'd need to actually DO the MSQ to realize it, to realize why. Come back AFTER you've beaten 3.45 MSQ and tell us why the gates should not have been there.