Square-Enix's "How the Mog Station Stole Christmas!"

Do you mean the Starlight Sentinel (Indoor tree) that is 280k on your server?

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Number of possible combinations is not the same as being creative. Being creative is more about how you use your available options not the number of options you have.

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I hit my post limit last night and couldn't really expand on what I meant, but thank you, you summed it up nicely.

Just saying, but a lot of people ask for things to get put in cash shop so they get it right now instead of having to do work in game. Now SE just throws everything in CS. You got what you asked for. Maybe now people will start asking for things to be available in game instead of the dozens of threads asking for some silly glamor/mount to be in the CS ASAP!

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Originally Posted by Lithe

Just saying, but a lot of people ask for things to get put in cash shop so they get it right now instead of having to do work in game. Now SE just throws everything in CS. You got what you asked for. Maybe now people will start asking for things to be available in game instead of the dozens of threads asking for some silly glamor/mount to be in the CS ASAP!

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Yep. That's exactly why, come 4.0, the Cash Shop will allow you to buy a pair of potions to instantly make you lvl60 & i270 (or thereabouts) with gil, a chocobo & the like at the ready. All to satisfy the needs of the lazy.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

I hit my post limit last night and couldn't really expand on what I meant, but thank you, you summed it up nicely.

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But surely you and Ultimatecalibur have to admit that it's easier to be creative with more options? I certainly can't think of any reasonable argument to the contrary, so if you have one, please enlighten me.

Easier to make something unique (not equivalent to creative, mind you) comes with a large number of options.
Restrictions on options cause people to be more creative with their designs because they may not be able to simply slap on the shiny new item of the patch.
I could probably expand an entire page worth of words on this but you can't seem to grasp creativity, so it'd be difficult for me to continue. :(
But perhaps a difference of perspective is what's causing the misunderstanding. It's not about what an individual player can bring to themselves, it's what a player looking out at other players in the game see. It's about the perspective from a third party.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

Last Christmas, they gave us a tree, but the very next day you threw them away. This year, to save them from tears, they made it into something special.

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I read that singing it to the tune lol

I like that they give you the option to obtain items that you may have missed from past events. Granted you have to pay cash for them but for the most part it's trivial what you have to pay i.e. not a lot that is. SE if you read this thank you for giving people players the opportunity to obtain stuff that they may have missed, I hope you continue on with it.

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Originally Posted by Lithe

Just saying, but a lot of people ask for things to get put in cash shop so they get it right now instead of having to do work in game. Now SE just throws everything in CS. You got what you asked for. Maybe now people will start asking for things to be available in game instead of the dozens of threads asking for some silly glamor/mount to be in the CS ASAP!

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That's not how it works, SE would put stuff on the cash shop anyway, with people asking for it or not. They just jumped into the bandwagon with those very vocal players and adopted their plead as a reason to their move.

You know I'm totaly ok with the mog station I feel like it gives new players a means to get loot that they would have otherwise missed and it helps fund the game so you know what I'm ok with it missed out on an item all well it's a digital item is it realy worth all this complaining want one buy one is 5 $most of the time so meh

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Originally Posted by Lukha

But surely you and Ultimatecalibur have to admit that it's easier to be creative with more options? I certainly can't think of any reasonable argument to the contrary, so if you have one, please enlighten me.

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Not really. More options can actually lead to less creativity as using the new options take priority over using older options.

Consider what happens when a new piece of glamour gear gets added. There is a massive wave of players wearing the same or similar hot new glamour.

Those that are the most creative are those that do unusual/unexpected things with whatever they have access to, not those with the most options.

Restrictions are well known for enhancing creativity when properly used in circles related to things that require creativity.

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Originally Posted by Chocolys

The Starlight Pillar kinda replaced the tree for the 2016 season. Which is a good thing for people who already got the trees so they can extend their Starlight decoration collection. Getting a tree instead each year would be kind of boring for existing players.

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Yeah, let's ignore new players shall we, after all it's only due to them replacing those who no longer play that SE continue to actually make money to run the game.

Sometimes I have to wonder if the feedback SE takes has become detrimental to the community. The entitlement and the histrionics over something as small and dumb as a Christmas tree is unbelievable.

SE is a business. Their entire purpose is the make money, not to make you individually happy. They're going to keep putting things in the cash shop.

I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it (I will never like cash shops in sub games, that's etched in forever for me), if the housing system wasn't such a mess all this time. During some of these events people had no access to housing or what they could feasibly see as no chance at it. Some time later adjustments are made to make housing more affordable and apartments are added increasing housing access, but a lot of people weren't going to use up what precious storage space they have on items they didn't have a use for at the time. Now they can use the items, but instead of being able to acquire them in game, it's slid behind a pay wall. Even with apartments, Balmung apparently (going by what people say, I have no characters there) has been out for quite some time and Square still hasn't increased the limits on it that they said they easily could, so the situation is still dragging on at least one server. I'd like to see the old items available (though untradable as new ones are) through the in-game events at least until they've gotten housing availability fully under control, after which one round of events before they begin turning things over to the cash shop.

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Originally Posted by SnugglesD

Sometimes I have to wonder if the feedback SE takes has become detrimental to the community. The entitlement and the histrionics over something as small and dumb as a Christmas tree is unbelievable.

SE is a business. Their entire purpose is the make money, not to make you individually happy. They're going to keep putting things in the cash shop.

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Well they are a game company, their purpose is to make games.

Before money was a mean to make games, nowadays games are just a mean to make money. That's a pretty big difference, it's the reason why we see stupid things like this happen.

They make a theme event, should be a good time to just enjoy the celebration. But instead on getting a bigger list of rewards each years for the events and making it potentially more fun they go for the opportunity of making a cheap buck using stupid things like decorations which are not worth anything to begin with beside getting in the event's mood, since the housing is what it is and you probably won't use them afterward. Yeah yeah, I know, "If you think they're not worth it, why do you even care?" because the "anything for a dollar" mentality of SE at this point really is borderline disgusting.

Would be nice to see them more interested by the game they're making and its community rather than the money they can manage to force out of them at every turn.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Consider what happens when a new piece of glamour gear gets added. There is a massive wave of players wearing the same or similar hot new glamour.

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That's not addressing the point.

What you're stating here is uncreative people being uncreative. That of course happens, but that has nothing to do with restrictions helping or hindering creativity, that's simply people not using their potential for creativity, regardless of how small or large that might be. A person with the potential to become a top sprinter doesn't necessarily become one and neither does a person with a higher potential for creativity necessarily be more creative. These people won't get any more or less creative if one restricts their options, they'll show the exact same uncreative behaviour with the options that ARE available to them - making some unavailable can change what they wear, but not their behaviour. They'll remain uncreative, they simply are uncreative with a different item. Biiig whoop.

That said, you can create diversity with restrictions, yes, just as you can create diversity by forcing characters to be randomly generated without you having the option to make changes. But that has nothing to do with creativity. We humans are very diverse in appearance and genetical composition, but we are not "creative" for that. We are creative with the things we CAN change - hair color, clothing etc. But that's because those are options to us. If clothing was restricted like genes, we wouldn't be able to be creative with them either.

Every time someone makes a complaint thread about the Mog Station, a Sony executive gets his/her wings.

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Originally Posted by Sigiria

Well they are a game company, their purpose is to make games.

Before money was a mean to make games, nowadays games are just a mean to make money.

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I don't know what bizarre world you live in, but no publicly traded company makes a product out of altruism. SE is a corporation. Their main goal is to make money. It always has been and always will be. The only interest they have in making people happy is because happy people means open wallets.

Asking them to forgo their livelihoods to make you happy is more selfish than you're accusing them of being.

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Originally Posted by Becken

I wished they went back to selling past years items in game during these event...

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This, please.

Unfortunately, once you go Cash Shop, there usually is no "going back".

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Originally Posted by Belhi

From what I remember what they did in the past was just leave stuff inaccessible if you missed the relevant gear. The only reason it started appearing in the Mogstation was because people kept asking for old event stuff including through the Mogstation. There were long threads asking for it.

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Nope. Up until the second summer event, old holiday stuff was available on vendors.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

From what I remember what they did in the past was just leave stuff inaccessible if you missed the relevant gear. The only reason it started appearing in the Mogstation was because people kept asking for old event stuff including through the Mogstation. There were long threads asking for it.

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Even longer threads asking not for it.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-the-cash-shop..

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Originally Posted by SnugglesD

Sometimes I have to wonder if the feedback SE takes has become detrimental to the community. The entitlement and the histrionics over something as small and dumb as a Christmas tree is unbelievable.

SE is a business. Their entire purpose is the make money, not to make you individually happy. They're going to keep putting things in the cash shop.

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I'm still not over all the people that were upset about the Veteran Rewards a few months ago. It never ends.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

That's not addressing the point.

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That was directly addressing the point. Creativity is not related to the number of options available and the addition of new (or reintroduction of old) options does not directly increase creativity and will sometimes decrease creativity.

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That said, you can create diversity with restrictions, yes, just as you can create diversity by forcing characters to be randomly generated without you having the option to make changes. But that has nothing to do with creativity. We humans are very diverse in appearance and genetical composition, but we are not "creative" for that. We are creative with the things we CAN change - hair color, clothing etc. But that's because those are options to us. If clothing was restricted like genes, we wouldn't be able to be creative with them either.

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I was more referring to artistic works. Oil painting is not inherently more creative than charcoal drawing even though Oil paints have far more color options. Anyone blaming a lack of creativity on lack of options does not understand what creativity is.

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Originally Posted by SnugglesD

I don't know what bizarre world you live in, but no publicly traded company makes a product out of altruism. SE is a corporation. Their main goal is to make money. It always has been and always will be. The only interest they have in making people happy is because happy people means open wallets.

Asking them to forgo their livelihoods to make you happy is more selfish than you're accusing them of being.

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The item shop was never intented at first, Yoshida was even surprised when people started asking for it.

Because they saw an opportunity in people wanting to pay more to feel special they implemented the cash shop and put in there content they announced before even thinking about the cash shop (like the wedding stuffs)

So at that point it don't remotely get close to their livelihoods, it's greed.

I wonder what is the more selfish people expecting a game they are paying for to be fair with them, or a game company jumping at any opportunity to make even more money?

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Originally Posted by Sigiria

The item shop was never intented at first, Yoshida was even surprised when people started asking for it.

Because they saw an opportunity in people wanting to pay more to feel special they implemented the cash shop and put in there content they announced before even thinking about the cash shop (like the wedding stuffs)

So at that point it don't remotely get close to their livelihoods, it's greed.

I wonder what is the more selfish people expecting a game they are paying for to be fair with them, or a game company jumping at any opportunity to make even more money?

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Taking advantage of an opportunity to make extra money on OPTIONAL and, for the most part, completely cosmetic items that players themselves ask for is in no way greedy. People are just too self entitled.

I think it's pretty awful how it is structured. New players' enjoyment should not be compromised for this. I have all of the holiday items I need, but each holiday that passes I think of how blatant a money grab it is.

I don't care too much that items exist within RMT stores, however when it comes to items that existed within a game, I think it's a really low tactic.

I have kept basically all of my holiday items at the expense of transmog, gear, and crafting material spaces so I don't have to shill out over $50 for holiday items.

It would be awful to be a new player and see the selection of items available to them for the Starlight Festival, and to me it's a disconnect between Square caring about their player base having fun versus what they can charge for.

I think it's less about entitlement, and more about goodwill intentions by Square that make players happy to support them.

I think the problem isn't so much the cash store but the small number of event items in game. For something like the Starlight Celebration it would be nice to also have the option of a tree and snowman. To keep each year somewhat unique they could just reskin them. This way players that haven't been here from the beginning could get basic decorations more or less integral to the holiday. Then each year they could change enhanced holiday items. Basically create a set of core holiday items and then unique holiday item that change year to year. For collectors put the rest in the cash shop and/or/both provide a holidays of the past quest to allow the old stuff to be earned and doled out. Being newer and not having a tree was somewhat of a downer.

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Originally Posted by Edyth

So, if I'm not mistaken, we can't even get the Christmas tree this year without paying an additional fee on top of the subscription? I still have my tree, but my wife who just started this year will be very sad to learn this.

Grinch move, Square-Enix.

Does anyone else think that they're going a little overboard with making things Mog Station-exclusive? Sure, past mounts and minions are understandable, but Christmas trees should be obtainable within Eorzea every year.

We're one step closer to Whoville circa Christmas Eve, unless someone's corporate heart grows a few sizes.

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Last I checked, Christmas Trees in real life cost money to.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Not really. More options can actually lead to less creativity as using the new options take priority over using older options.

Consider what happens when a new piece of glamour gear gets added. There is a massive wave of players wearing the same or similar hot new glamour.

Those that are the most creative are those that do unusual/unexpected things with whatever they have access to, not those with the most options.

Restrictions are well known for enhancing creativity when properly used in circles related to things that require creativity.

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But those who are actually going to be creative with their options will still be more creative with more options.

You're basing your argument on what the sort of people who will make a default male midlander and only change the hair color, or pink-haired catgirl #4,873,027 if they're feeling especially daring. The sort of people whose glamour efforts rarely extend beyond using a full matching set of whatever the new thing is. People like that aren't going to be creative no matter what you do, and shouldn't be considered an example of anything. They most certainly shouldn't be used as a reason to restrict options for those who would actually use them!

Restrictions and exclusives will realistically result in less capacity for creativity, because even if you have an idea for something different, you might not have access to the necessary materials to achieve it. It will also result in everyone within a certain set or class using the same components, since those are the only ones they have. You seem to want to prevent homogeneity, but the scenario you're arguing for is actually the one most logically likely to result in it.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Restrictions on options cause people to be more creative with their designs because they may not be able to simply slap on the shiny new item of the patch.

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That is a major logical error on your part, because as I've pointed out previously, restrictions such as you have stated your favor for in this thread will actively force people to 'slap on the shiny new item of the patch' because it is all they will have access to.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

I could probably expand an entire page worth of words on this but you can't seem to grasp creativity, so it'd be difficult for me to continue. :(

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That's a pretty rude thing to say, but it's not difficult for me to believe you said it, since your entire argument seems to be based on imposing your own values as to what qualifies as 'creativity' on others.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

It's not about what an individual player can bring to themselves, it's what a player looking out at other players in the game see.

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Case in point. Glamour or decorating your personal house or apartment is 100% about the individual player doing it, and the only right you have any claim to in relation is the right to go away if you're not happy with their choices.