Multiple linkshells suggestion.

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Originally Posted by OJtheLIONKing

However, you guys have probably been around long enough to know the reason they haven't implemented that design is very likely to be an engine or server issue. Hopefully they can put this in with 2.0.

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Nah I've been around long enough to know that this is a half baked excuse similar to PS2 limitation.

If its possibly to type /p hello it's completely possible to type /ls1 hello

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

wow, super hostility and immature behavior for the lose.

What you're asking for is essentially what's being done- the "equipped" linkshell is the one you're sending a message to- so it's only a matter of pressing the hotkey for the linkshell to send a message to and sending it. Are people forgetting you can always hear any of your linkshells already? The fact is, SE's implementation is actually more efficient than your proposed one.

The only real distinction here is that the icon over your head is going to change for a second.

This implementation is still a drastic improvement, yet players apparently feel so entitled that they can shoot them down for coming up with it.

*press hotkey*
*enter message*
*press hotkey*

Total number of buttons pressed is actually lower than if you typed "/ls# chat message" by 2 buttons. On top of this, if you want to send multiple messages, that's even more keypresses saved:

*hotkey for LS1*
*chat message 1*
*chat message 2*
*chat message 3*
*hotkey for LS2*
*chat message 4*
Total keypresses = 2 + number of letters in chat message

/ls1 *chat message 1*
/ls1 *chat message 2*
/ls1 *chat message 3*
/ls2 *chat message 4*
Total keypresses = 16 + number of letters in chat message

The more message you send to the same LS, the more efficient SE's method becomes.

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So explain to us how we can change LS during synthesis ?, it's not possible to use text commands or open macro windows during synthesis.

A /ls1 <message> system would allow you to talk to whatever LS you wanted regardless of what you were doing, if you were stuck in a cutscene, had the gear/inventory window open or just crafting/gathering.

Think before you start lashing out at everyone.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

IMO that is a defect of crafting/gathering and not a defect of the proposed feature.

Especially with the timer for crafting being removed, it makes a lot of sense for the system to be adjusted to allow for certain commands that can't currently be performed while it is in progress.

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Sorry but you clearly don't know what you are talking about, in the current version of FFXIV its impossible for the system to display two windows at once, including the displaying of macros whilst stuck in a window, whether that be the crafting window or any other menu or cutscene.

This is a fundamental flaw with the game and can't be easily fixed until 2.0, but I don't believe for a minute that its impossible to recode a few lines to allow a player to directly talk between LS's as has been suggested.

For example if I'm in a party and crafting I can still type /p <message> and it works.

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This implementation is still a drastic improvement, yet players apparently feel so entitled that they can shoot them down for coming up with it.

*press hotkey*
*enter message*
*press hotkey*

Total number of buttons pressed is actually lower than if you typed "/ls# chat message" by 2 buttons. On top of this, if you want to send multiple messages, that's even more keypresses saved:

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this is 3 actions not one. and while it maybe 2 buttons less it's also alot slower and more cumbersome. the generic idea is that i want to be able to talk to my linkshells faster. and a simple /l1 your message here is a lot faster than pressing hot key waiting for ls to change type /l your message here then pressing another hotkey.

which if you really look at it it's actually more key presses. not less.

hotkey2
/l your message
hotkey1

as opposed to /l2 your message or even /ls2 your message. but no matter how different the keystrokes are 1 action is a lot less hassle than 3.

making a 3 step action is just saying how can we make a simple idea more complicated than it needs to be

How I would've done that?

/linkshell (/l) ([Number of the Linkshell]/"[Name of the Linkshell"]) [Text]
ex. /l Heya!
/l 3 Heya!
/l "Seraphim" Heya!

But I acknowledge that because of how the system is done we can't have this, so this system they're working on is fine!

Why do we need the "l" or "ls"
/1
/2
...
/8
Now it's just as fast as anything else, and just like /cm s == /s; with no text after it
/cm l == /[n]; where [n] is the ls you want to be active ...
Just sayin

Having watched many linkshells be crushed and redone due to inactive members as well as having seen numerous linkshells split up due to members being linkshell whores and only coming into the shell when they see something going on they need, I want them to make it so you can't see any text from any shell other than the one you have on. I am sorry, I can see why this will be an unpopular stance, but I am all for promoting linkshell unity and pride, and the current system as well as the system the OP proposes does not promote that in anyway. I get that people will argue that because the game is in such poor shape they need to be in multiple pearls to get stuff done, but my counter arguement to this remains the same: spend more time being helpful and a full time member to ONE linkshell and watch how fast others follow suit. Its easy to be a linkshell whore, which is why some many do it. It takes integrity to stick with one ls and do what you can to help its leaders make it a good one by being helpful and a full time member. I blame SE overall for the shitty system we were given (the old team I mean), and I blame the current team for allowing this system to remain in place as long as it has. I think way more people would have stayed through the reconstruction had SE decided to support and fix the community tools instead of spending time on silly things like holiday events and gobbue gifts.

Just my 2 cents though

Biggs I have to agree with alot of what you said, in this it's entirely to easy to jump shells for just what you want, and of course getting people to stick with a single shell is gonna be a pain. Leaders from all your shells are gonna be wanting you full time.
On the other hand, being able to see a social, and an EG/Event shell wouldn't be all that bad. In XI I dropped my social shells because my EG shell would be on, I'd miss requests for help and people would think I was LS hopping when I in fact wasn't, I was just in an event that once finished I woulda been there to help w/ w/e.

It's kind of a tough situation, on the one hand, people will shell hop, on the other if you have more than one shell and are on one for an event people may see you as shell hopping when they see your on and not responding.

I dont understand some of u ppl complaining about it

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Originally Posted by Camate

Also, we will be adding the below items to the Main Menu under Configuration → Keyboard → Other, and it will be possible to assign them to the key of your choice.

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Basically u make macros like shift+1, shift +2 etc etc.
It's exactly the same as typing /ls1 or /ls2.. oh ya.. one more click.
It's really great news people. Rejoice!

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Originally Posted by Pancakes

I dont understand some of u ppl complaining about it

Basically u make macros like shift+1, shift +2 etc etc.
It's exactly the same as typing /ls1 or /ls2.. oh ya.. one more click.
It's really great news people. Rejoice!

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See above, many complaining are crafters who cannot use macros while crafting. However, we will possibly be able to use the text command in the chat box while crafting, it's unclear as of yet whether or not that will be possible. Hopefully it will work where macros and hot keys do not.

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Originally Posted by AestaValis

I believe the thought of being able to freely chat between active and inactive linkshells opposes the idea of what the guild/ls system is built upon.
Each linkshell has it's own identity (name and shield etc), so why are people happy enough to forgo the pride of their ls so they can chat to whomever they want, whenever they want. In this case, it seems to me that people are merely wanting more chat channels (with possible custom channels).

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Originally Posted by Biggs

Having watched many linkshells be crushed and redone due to inactive members as well as having seen numerous linkshells split up due to members being linkshell whores and only coming into the shell when they see something going on they need, I want them to make it so you can't see any text from any shell other than the one you have on. I am sorry, I can see why this will be an unpopular stance, but I am all for promoting linkshell unity and pride, and the current system as well as the system the OP proposes does not promote that in anyway. I get that people will argue that because the game is in such poor shape they need to be in multiple pearls to get stuff done, but my counter arguement to this remains the same: spend more time being helpful and a full time member to ONE linkshell and watch how fast others follow suit.

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Dedication to a single LS is admirable. But it is not for everyone.

After a year and a half, I have good friends across many Linkshells and have accepted a few shells to hold myself. I switch between them regularly, not when there is something I need, but when there is an interesting conversation or they need help and I am in a position to lend a hand.

I guess I'm more a community player than a clique player.

It comes down to what the Linkshell exists for, and the leaders communicating that to their members.
If they expect dedication to a single shell, that should be explained up front.

I don't mean to take anything away from people having Linkshell pride. I think that's great for people who feel that way about their Linkshells. I'm just offering that not everyone thinks the same about the shells they hold and it is not always about being selfish or disloyal.


And to the proposed change, if it doesn't work during crafting or gathering then I agree it is pretty worthless.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Time to necrobump~!

There has been some progress on the LS switching front, so I’d like to update you all a bit.
In patch 1.22 the text command “/equiplinkshell (/el)” will be added. As a sub-command you can indicate “1-8” or input the linkshell name (in quotes) and it will be possible to switch to that linkshell.

Also, we will be adding the below items to the Main Menu under Configuration → Keyboard → Other, and it will be possible to assign them to the key of your choice.

• Switch to your next linkshell
• Switch to linkshell 1
• Switch to linkshell 2
• Switch to linkshell 3
• Switch to linkshell 4
• Switch to linkshell 5
• Switch to linkshell 6
• Switch to linkshell 7
• Switch to linkshell 8
• Unequip your current linkshell

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What we really need is LS management tools. This way we don't have to break the pearl just to remove inactive players....Do you think we could get that BEFORE this silly addition?

I think we do need something like /l# [message] at some point, but if it was a this or that question then /el # is better by far.

I use /cm l to lock to linkshell chat, and if I had to carry on a conversation by preceding every message with /l# that would drive me crazy.

I was only pondering the point in displaying an active linkshell if you're able to freely communicate with multiple shells.

The whole LS system I believe is a superior extension to guilds, in that we can join multiple shells for different purposes rather than being stuck in a single guild.

The way people want it, is so they can freely chat to people no matter what shield is next to their name. This is the pride I was talking about. In a sense, it merely becomes something to show when you're raiding with a group etc.

I'm not saying people should only join a single LS, I'm just wondering why the LS system exists if in the end it becomes nothing more than a glorified chat channel.

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Originally Posted by Soulfire

I think we do need something like /l# [message] at some point, but if it was a this or that question then /el # is better by far.

I use /cm l to lock to linkshell chat, and if I had to carry on a conversation by preceding every message with /l# that would drive me crazy.

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For what its worth you don't need to type /cm l you can just type /l enter.

i use /cm alot but i still use /p /l even with it cos i find /cm is buggy.

i can have /cm l set and be talking to a linkshell. some guy in my party will ask a question so i go to type /p to answer it. but if someone answers before me i hit exc to cancel and now my chat mode is /cm p or similar if i reply to a /t then my chat mode becomse /t to them.

the generic reason i and most others in this topic want a simple /l1 message, /l2 message system is because its simple it's quick and it's easy. and i still think that if we have to hit a hot key to change shell type a message and hit another hot key to change back then it's just making the whole system more complicated.

it would be like hit a hot key to talk to linkshell.
hit a hot key to shout in uldah. hit another hot key to talk to party.

theres a reason why we have /p /sh /s /l and we don't have hot keys for them. its the same reason we shouldnt need hot keys for /l1 /l2 /l3 etc

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Originally Posted by AestaValis

I was only pondering the point in displaying an active linkshell if you're able to freely communicate with multiple shells.

The whole LS system I believe is a superior extension to guilds, in that we can join multiple shells for different purposes rather than being stuck in a single guild.

The way people want it, is so they can freely chat to people no matter what shield is next to their name. This is the pride I was talking about. In a sense, it merely becomes something to show when you're raiding with a group etc.

I'm not saying people should only join a single LS, I'm just wondering why the LS system exists if in the end it becomes nothing more than a glorified chat channel.

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The basic idea of linkshell was chat channel, it became a guild system only because there was no real system for guild.

Hopefully, yoshida announced that free companies will be the real guild system when 2.0 will be released. peoples will be able to join only one and linkshell will return back to their initial state : being chat channels . Guild and chat systems will be clearly separated, a good thing.


I think the fact that SE announced only hot keys and text command for switching linkshell ,and not text command for directly sending message on the canal we want , is because server limitations.

It's a real good thing they re improving it but for the system most people want to have, you'll have to wait for the 2.0 version and his new server structure.

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theres a reason why we have /p /sh /s /l and we don't have hot keys for them. its the same reason we shouldnt need hot keys for /l1 /l2 /l3 etc

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You have ones....ctrl p, ctrl l, etc...

Having more than 1 isn't bad. I understand perfectly the loyalty part and seeking of unity but sadly not every linkshell is that successful to hold onto that for long time...

I think the /ls1 /ls2 /ls3 feature will help improve social and "maybe" help on those - sometimes - not that active members that we usually get in a LS. Every linkshell has different objectives so seeking for more than one thing in this game isn't bad in my opinion.

To be social / multi-ls is not bad what is bad is to take advantage of a linkshell or just come with a smile only when you need something and then hide when someone else requires assitance...

It think,that will be hard to implement the /ls1 <text> idea due to SE current server architecture.
But yeah! that's all we want with this "current" LS system.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Time to necrobump~!

There has been some progress on the LS switching front, so I’d like to update you all a bit.
In patch 1.22 the text command “/equiplinkshell (/el)” will be added. As a sub-command you can indicate “1-8” or input the linkshell name (in quotes) and it will be possible to switch to that linkshell.

Also, we will be adding the below items to the Main Menu under Configuration → Keyboard → Other, and it will be possible to assign them to the key of your choice.

• Switch to your next linkshell
• Switch to linkshell 1
• Switch to linkshell 2
• Switch to linkshell 3
• Switch to linkshell 4
• Switch to linkshell 5
• Switch to linkshell 6
• Switch to linkshell 7
• Switch to linkshell 8
• Unequip your current linkshell

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Epic fail.

LS Management is the most important aspect of the Linkshell System, period. Linkshells are just basically chatrooms right now, and no ability whatsoever to kick someone outside of XYZ range.

We've been asking for this since... BETA!

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You have ones....ctrl p, ctrl l, etc...

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oh wow so we do. just goes to show how often i use them. which is never cos /p or /sh is just quicker and easier

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Originally Posted by Dragon

Epic fail.

LS Management is the most important aspect of the Linkshell System, period. Linkshells are just basically chatrooms right now, and no ability whatsoever to kick someone outside of XYZ range.

We've been asking for this since... BETA!

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And like they said long time before , SE has some big problems with improving linkshell management because of the server problems, but seems lot of people chose to forget this fact and think that this improvement would be easy to do...

You'll probably have to wait 2.0 for a better linkshell management and, at this time, linkshell will definitely return to their chat channels statut since free companies will become the real guilds of final fantasy xiv .

how about.....we implement both feature = D....seriously, a shortcut to equip an ls in a flash or or or simply say something in a ls chat log with out equiping it. HAVING both will be better = D. ( dont forget to be able to switch ls while crafting..., seriously, )

Presumably, the reason they're implementing commands to switch linkshells vs directly inputting text into those unequipped linkshells is the amount of time and work it would take to do each.

Right now functionality to switch between linkshells already exists abstractly, it's just that those functions can only be accessed through the user interface. In order to create a text command to access those same functions, the workload is tiny, they're just implementing a new text command that will run an existing function.

On the other hand, being able to type directly into other linkshells would ostensibly require significantly more work, but is hopefully on the table for 2.0, though having a "next linkshell" macro or built in hot-key is a significant improvement on its own, and a perfectly reasonable one unless you're talking in half a dozen LS simultaneously.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Time to necrobump~!

There has been some progress on the LS switching front, so I’d like to update you all a bit.
In patch 1.22 the text command “/equiplinkshell (/el)” will be added. As a sub-command you can indicate “1-8” or input the linkshell name (in quotes) and it will be possible to switch to that linkshell.

Also, we will be adding the below items to the Main Menu under Configuration → Keyboard → Other, and it will be possible to assign them to the key of your choice.

• Switch to your next linkshell
• Switch to linkshell 1
• Switch to linkshell 2
• Switch to linkshell 3
• Switch to linkshell 4
• Switch to linkshell 5
• Switch to linkshell 6
• Switch to linkshell 7
• Switch to linkshell 8
• Unequip your current linkshell

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When will the "Kick" or "linkshell message" be added to the options menu for the leaders?

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Originally Posted by Rutelor

I agree! What fundamental practicality rules seem to indicate here is that, regardless of your allegiance to a particular LS (your very own,) you might want to say a few things in other shells from time to time. 1) You don't want the displayed LS emblem to change, and 2) you don't want to equip another LS just to un-equip it three seconds later. The whole multiple-LS thing seems to point that obvious way...

The improved LS-swap shortcuts might be useful, but their addition is not the one thing the community has been clamoring for since, virtually, day one, regarding LS chat.

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Hello, twin! I completely agree with this post. It's exactly what I was about to type.

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Originally Posted by Dragon

Epic fail.

LS Management is the most important aspect of the Linkshell System, period. Linkshells are just basically chatrooms right now, and no ability whatsoever to kick someone outside of XYZ range.

We've been asking for this since... BETA!

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Agreed even a text command /pcmd lsadd <name> /pcmd lskick <name> would be a welcome addition, I mean how hard can that be to add ?

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Agreed even a text command /pcmd lsadd <name> /pcmd lskick <name> would be a welcome addition, I mean how hard can that be to add ?

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I think "pcmd" is short for party command, but something like "/lcmd" or "/lscmd" followed by the usual things like "add", "kick", etc, would work.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Agreed even a text command /pcmd lsadd <name> /pcmd lskick <name> would be a welcome addition, I mean how hard can that be to add ?

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Exactly...

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

We don't need hot keys or text commands to equip different LS.

What we need is a text command to communicate to other LS's without changing our currently equiped shell.

/ls1 <text>
/ls2 <text>
/ls3 <text>

ect ect ect.

IMO it's a waste of resources devoting time and code to that function.

I hope to god this isn't how ver 2.0 opperates.

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THIS

It would be so much better to just type /l1 ~ /l8 and type, similar to the way you can type /p to type in a party chat. Having to type a command to change linkshells and then type a command to talk in that linkshell still sounds like as much a hassle to me as using the menu to do the same thing.

I have some follow-up information regarding the text command for switching linkshells I wanted to pass your way.

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Will it be possible to use this command while crafting?

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Yes, you’ll be able to use the text command in any situation.

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Is it possible for us to re-order the numbers (1-8) for linkshells ourselves?

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While we understand this desire behind this request, the cost of changing the current system would be incredibly large and there is other work to do, we need to push it back from the current version. We apologize for the inconvenience and appreciate your understanding.

Glad to see we can change during crafting.

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It would be so much better to just type /l1 ~ /l8 and type

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no, NOT that. it would not be so much better. In fact, it would be worse. *hotkey* *type as many messages as you want* *hotkey* > *typing /l# before every single message.

See my analysis posted earlier about why the THIS THIS THIS people want so much is actually less efficient than what SE is doing.

With SE's implementation, you'll be able to bind a key to each linkshell you have. ONE keypress to send any number of messages to a given linkshell, instead of 3-4 keypresses for every message you send.

Remember, you can hear all your linkshells at any time. when you "change" linkshells (with the hotkeys or manually) you're really just changing the linkshell that you're talking to.

Being able to switch at any time, even during crafting, should resolve anyone's grievances with the system.

that's what /cm [p/s/sh/ln] would be for
and just like now where you can
/p blah blah blah
w/o changing chatmode permanently you could
/4 hey I'm doin this thing
w/o being locked on shell[4]

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w/o being locked on shell[4]

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You're not locked on anything. You just press a given linkshell's key whenever you want to send a message to that linkshell. it's a lot faster than typing a multi-character slash command.

*ls hotkey1*
hey, lets hang out tonight
Oh? What time?
Okay, see you then
*ls hotkey 2*
I can't do that tonight, I'm meeting someone else
Sorry!
*ls hotkey 1*
OK, everything's all settled now
I'll be ready!

versus

/ls1 hey, lets hang out tonight
/ls1 Oh? What time?
/ls1 Okay, see you then
/ls2 I can't do that tonight, I'm meeting someone else
/ls2 Sorry!
/ls1 OK, everything's all settled now
/ls1 I'll be ready!

One is much less work than the other. Guess which one?
Top, person had to press three buttons between sending 7 messages.
Bottom, person had to press 28 buttons (4 characters in each slash command x7) in sending 7 messages.

There's nothing "permanent" about the switch. Just press the hotkey for the original shell and switch back.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

For what its worth you don't need to type /cm l you can just type /l enter.

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Whoa! I just checked that with /? and there it was! Nice!
Thanks for the tip!

verses

hey guys wanna do something
ok sure
lets go
/ls2 sorry guys bit busy
congrats
endless chat in current cmode

1 simple action as oposed to 3. and if you consider the hot keys are likely to be a combo. shift+1 shift+2 etc, then its just as many keypresses as the /ls2 message which is far faster and easier because you can do it all in one action.

as someone pointed out earlier hot keys exist for party, shout, say & linkshell. so do you.....
a:
*hot key linkshell*
hey guys lets do something
ok cool anyone else or i'll put a shout out.
*hot key shout*
event do you need it @x/x
*hot key link shell*
what jobs do you guys wanna be
*hot key shout*
event do you need it @x/x
*hot key linkshell*
got a tank

or do you
b:
hey guys wanna do something
ok cool anyone else or i'll put out a shout.
/sh event do you need it @x/x
what job do you guys wanna be...
/sh event do you need it @x/x
got a tank

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

You're not locked on anything. You just press a given linkshell's key whenever you want to send a message to that linkshell. it's a lot faster than typing a multi-character slash command.

*ls hotkey1*
hey, lets hang out tonight
Oh? What time?
Okay, see you then
*ls hotkey 2*
I can't do that tonight, I'm meeting someone else
Sorry!
*ls hotkey 1*
OK, everything's all settled now
I'll be ready!

versus

/ls1 hey, lets hang out tonight
/ls1 Oh? What time?
/ls1 Okay, see you then
/ls2 I can't do that tonight, I'm meeting someone else
/ls2 Sorry!
/ls1 OK, everything's all settled now
/ls1 I'll be ready!

One is much less work than the other. Guess which one?
Top, person had to press three buttons between sending 7 messages.
Bottom, person had to press 28 buttons (4 characters in each slash command x7) in sending 7 messages.

There's nothing "permanent" about the switch. Just press the hotkey for the original shell and switch back.

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Think perhaps you misunderstood my meaning of "locked", so as an example.
/1 (w/o text this is the equiv of hitting [ls1] so now my active ls is 1 and cm is /l)
blah blah blah
/4 Hey anyone wanna grind (I don't actually want this to be my active shell, just want to send the one line)
/p (w/o text this is the equiv of /cm p, I don't want to be in linkshell chat default at all right now)
/3 Got 2 xp slots open anyone want in?
/2 Come fill this xp pt for me.
So I asked on a couple shells to try to rep these last couple slots.
(time passes pt dies)
/1 (again w/o anything following the "/1" it switches my chatmode to /cm l and active shell to 1)
Well that parties done.
Anyone doing anything fun or interesting?

I've switched chatmodes less times, pressed less keys, and saved ~8 keystrokes over mashing [ctrl]+[shell n] everytime I want to say something to a shell and then [ctrl+p] to talk to my party again.

All I meant by permanent/locked is that your active shell changes, or your chatmode changes, for instance in a pt more often than not I don't want to change chatmode from /p since more often than not I'm talking to party members. That makes:
[ls1 keys]
Oh as soon as I get 50 (~50k) I'll come do that.
[ctrl+p]
Hang on I need MP!

More keys than:
/1 Oh as soon as I get 50 (~50k) I'll come do that.
Hang on I need MP!

every time no matter how you wanna try to argue it^^

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[ctrl]+[shell n] everytime I want to say something to a shell

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You don't have to macro it. You can bind it to a single key.

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I've switched chatmodes less times, pressed less keys,

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You didn't press less keys. At best, if it's a two-letter text command, you've pressed the same number of keys.

Even if you're sending only one message to a different LS (I personally would find this to be extremely rare), it's STILL less keypresses to switch back and forth. The more messages you send to the other LS, the better the new method becomes.

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every time no matter how you wanna try to argue it^^

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Actually, it's not. It's equal keys, or less. I'll even use your commands (which are too short and could be typed accidentally)

Hey there
what's up
/2 yo guys
ah cool
sweet

vs

hey there
what's up
*hotkey 2*
yo guys
*hotkey 1*
ah cool
sweet

Thhe lower method is STILL fewer keys (3 keys when you include the space for the text command.

We can back and forth this all day if you want, but the fact is, there's nothing wrong with SE's implementation and I can't believe how whiny some people are being. This change is going to come out, you'll use it and it'll work fine, and people will won't even talk about it.

I understand why you're saying the need to switch back is less convenient, but it's not. Perhaps very slightly less intuitive, but that's about it.

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as someone pointed out earlier hot keys exist for party, shout, say & linkshell. so do you.....

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Actually, i'd be more likely to have shout already on default, but that might just be me having a quiet linkshell. I don't currently have those hotkeys set, but I also don't switch chat modes much because I don't have a busy LS and only really party for dungeons/BC fights.

The only thing I'd like more than what we're getting really, is if the second chat window had its own input box. Typically that one is set to show LS chat only, so I'd like to be able to just type into that box to chat LS and type into the main box for shout/say. Its not really more efficient, but it is intuitive and logical.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

You don't have to macro it. You can bind it to a single key.

You didn't press less keys. At best, if it's a two-letter text command, you've pressed the same number of keys.

Even if you're sending only one message to a different LS (I personally would find this to be extremely rare), it's STILL less key presses to switch back and forth. The more messages you send to the other LS, the better the new method becomes.

Actually, it's not. It's equal keys, or less. I'll even use your commands (which are too short and could be typed accidentally)

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alt+tab gets pressed accidentally too, that's not the point though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Hey there
what's up
/2 yo guys
ah cool
sweet

vs

hey there
what's up
*hotkey 2*
yo guys
*hotkey 1*
ah cool
sweet

The lower method is STILL fewer keys (3 keys when you include the space for the text command.

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Ok based on having a single hotkey, which would make sense here? maybe just "1" for my first shell, so yeah I suppose we get the same effect, but rather than /1 just the 1 and hopefully I remember the /p to talk to my pt again afterward.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

We can back and forth this all day if you want, but the fact is, there's nothing wrong with SE's implementation and I can't believe how whiny some people are being. This change is going to come out, you'll use it and it'll work fine, and people will won't even talk about it.

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Really why is it whiny, aside from you seeming to want to argue, and of course me needing to kill some time and thinking this is fun for the time being. These are simply opinions, people sharing what they think, I've yet to see anyone stomp and cry about how they "won't" use this new thing. All I've seen up to this point is people tossing ideas that they think might make things better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I understand why you're saying the need to switch back is less convenient, but it's not. Perhaps very slightly less intuitive, but that's about it.

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Really by all definitions less intuitive means learning which means inconvenient, when compared to something that I/we have been doing for a period of time already.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Actually, i'd be more likely to have shout already on default, but that might just be me having a quiet linkshell. I don't currently have those hotkeys set, but I also don't switch chat modes much because I don't have a busy LS and only really party for dungeons/BC fights.

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So if that's the case hitting "hotkey" msg "hotkey" "/sh" would be even less convenient for you ... than "/1 yeah I agree"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

The only thing I'd like more than what we're getting really, is if the second chat window had its own input box. Typically that one is set to show LS chat only, so I'd like to be able to just type into that box to chat LS and type into the main box for shout/say. Its not really more efficient, but it is intuitive and logical.

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That's not a bad idea, I don't have my logs setup that way, but it wouldn't be all that hard to make them that way, then the only problem would be that PS3 thing w/o a mouse, or those that use gamepad/kbd and sit away from their machine while playing, on a big screen or something.

Really though, why did you not just say, "That's not a bad idea maybe they should incorporate both." cause through your post you said that what I was saying wasn't bad?
Is it just that you needed to lash out at something cause you were frustrated by this maintenance we're waiting on?

I have to agree with Biggs on this one. As a sackholder in a linkshell, having people jump from linkshell to linkshell hurts the building process when you are trying to make your own linkshell stronger. A lot of people will tend to go to a party in one linkshell that may have a winning record for a certain NM, dungeon, etc. and then when you want them to help your event, they will not come because you haven't established that winning record yet. Building a strong linkshell takes time and loyalty and this holding multiple linkshells takes away the loyalty aspect. I would like to get that latest and best gear but I would like to see my linkshell succeed even more. The bottom line is, this game is for entertainment and that nice piece of armor is virtual anyways. I guess it's up to people to decide what is better - a virtual piece of armor or building a strong relationship in a linkshell.

I've gotta agree with ya there Rezzie, building that "human" bond in a linkshell is a bit more challenging when your members may or may not be there. That whole "Well my other shells are better for that." thinking breaks the glue that holds a shell together.
From a slightly different perspective though, if you get people together that aren't interested solely in the "EG" content you stand a better chance of building on the social aspects which in turn will strengthen the bonds for when you happen to be going for "EG" stuff. For instance lowbie xp grinding, easyish NMs for gear for those lowbie jobs(this with 2~3 ppl can easily be a few hrs where eventually you'll end up shootin the shit between pops), questing for w/e. If you build an "EG" shell and don't have the stats to say "We're among the best." the people you get will be either: People trying to carve out a name so they can join the #1 "EG"LS; People that come and go too sporadically to be in a dedicated "EG"LS. In either of those cases your kinda gonna be hurt, wether for members not being around, or for having members that get that name and then move on.

It's far more difficult to say no to people you "hang out" with and talk to everyday than to say no to random people that you just do "events" with.

Just a little off topic there^^