Dev Team, show me you care about your players because I just don't see it (long read)

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Originally Posted by Zeroeffect

I might have missed what he was saying but I don't believe he is or was asking for a hand out anywhere.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

I have no idea what that dude is talking about. Just the dude being the dude.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

How about, if your Sentinel class is wiped, a free Gladiator class to make up for it. How about if your class is wiped or changed extensively, we will make up for it by giving you a choice that's meaningful.

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You have no Idea, eh? This isnt your first topic Neptune. I'm sure it will not be the last.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

I'm not surprised in the slightest, but I think several of you think of the dev team as an incredible chef that lives in your house and cooks you exotic meals every day, of which you eat with no questions asked. To me the dev team is more like a talented group of artists that I support, but in return I require an experience that is enjoyable, and in the case of an online game, I expect for my progress not to be taken away.

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I think your missing the point that this is SE's game not yours and that they will do what ever it is they want to do with this game simple as that.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

I hope this gets locked ASAP. This is obnoxious and most everything the dev team has been doing since the team reshuffle has been done with plans for the longterm and the players in mind.

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Why should this get locked?
I think OP has a valid point.

I also feel that lots of the things we have done in the past up until now AND until end of next year will be in vain.

I don't personally mind that CON is going to be a healer as I was going to level both casters anyway, but I can see why it would get to someone else.
I also find it slightly annoying that I can't be the DD THM now with my shield... why did I lvl my THM with a crappy wand when I could have played with a staff?

Buuuut anyhow, I am pretty sure that this "adjustment" won't be the only one we see and we will do lots of things up until end of next year that will be wiped off and forgotten... and we will all feel a bit screwed over but then we move on.

That loyalty mode post wasn't a joke???

Way to complain about something we dont fully know the details for, the epidemic seems to be spreading. GJ

I think the OP has some valid points here, and instead of trying to say "GTFO or shut-up" over this it'd be wiser to try seeing it from both perspectives. Yes, changes are coming and much of them are for the better. Does the Dev Team know what they're doing? Without a doubt. However along the path here many of the people who have supported this game from launch and continue to support it are feeling left out. I for one got the Collector's edition at the start. Personally some changes I didn't like, I found annoying even, but I adjusted over time. Others I saw them and just went "Wow, this is ten times better than I thought it would be like!" and was pleased. However the game I knew from the start, and what we have now, are vastly different. Not every feature they had in the past was awful, it needed tweaking which is what they're doing.

Yet some of the newer changes (class revamps for example) are causes for concern. With each change they do, drastic or not it's yet another thing we have to adjust to, and if it doesn't work, they go back and redo it, again. Many of us did put in time and effort into specific parts of the game, and seeing all that being for waste is like a kick in the groin.

When you started a specific class back at launch you started it because it was the ideal class you wanted, what you intended to play as. Months later down the road, a year in fact, you're told that class is going to be revamped thus adversely affecting your play style. Maybe you played Archer to be a hard-hitter DD (Please don't get into debates about it being OP'd, we know it was and needed to be nerfed.) and then learn you're going to be likely facing a supportive role. You began leveling Conjurer because you expected to play like a Black Mage, now you're being told you need to level an entirely different class because you want to play it. Sure you can level that class, but you've still spent all that time now playing a class you don't want. Same could be said for those who tweaked their gear and equipment just a certain way to be efficient, now they have to gather all new gear, readjust it all, and if they class has gone in a different direction than they expected... They now have to find a new class they actually want to play as and gear that one up all over again. This is the view I'm trying to explain here.

Is it fair that these changes are being forced upon the minority? No, but they're going to happen one way or another. All we can do is learn to adapt to them and have faith that maybe it won't be as bad as we thought. However instead of being rude and nasty about it or just downright hostile, try to understand it from another point of view.

TLDR version: It's not entirely fair to the people who came from the start, but they'll have to adjust. Don't be a douche by ragging on them for it, try to instead understand where they're coming from. KTHXBAI

EDIT: Something I forgot to add, it could be just my perspective... Yet many of these "changes" that have been suggested from the community seem to almost base that they want this game to be another clone of <insert favorite game here> instead of something unique. The armoury system is something quite unique in fact to FFXIV, including the freedom to customize a class as you see fit. Slowly the game is losing some of the traits that made it truly unique.

Still, like I said... We won't entirely know until the final step towards 2.0 if the game will indeed be something unique amongst the MMO's of today, or just another clone trying to be like everyone else out there...

Neptune is the biggest Troll who is not a troll? does that even make sense? In the time you spent on this thread you could probably take a class from 1-50. 40-50 is a 3 hour push on some wolves. 1-40 goes very fast especially if you make a few good parties and find the right beastmen camps OR find a willing PL for a couple hours at a time over a few days.

Also i'm pretty certain right now with shield skills and the way its been revamped a CON with a shield makes almost no difference to survivability vs the CON w/o a shield. I know things were different before 1.19 but times a changing and gotta adapt or fall behind.

Specifically thinking of how I held 3 skelly on CON for the last phase of Batraal, by abusing sentinel and deflection/aegis boonII

One big HUGE change to the way the mage class is different is how we dont' have to engage to cast which takes away the use of a shield since (correct me if I'm wrong) but shield only procs when engaged. And if you engage you prevent yourself from recovering MP through resting.

@ OP: Cause you spent all that time lvling Sentinel by itself? Cause you chose the wrong job to begin with, the obvious White Mage class (the only one with 'Cure'). This has nothing to do with the dev team or the direction of the game. Shield skills aren't meant for mage classes. All it comes down to is the wrong decisions you made, you can only blame yourself.

CNJ really shouldn't use a Shield to begin with... looks so weird >.>

The game was dead before it had even hit the shelves, it needed an overhaul. It's getting an overhaul. Devs + Yoshi are doing a great job so far at trying to make XIV a game that I can tell people I play without getting sad looks (yes, it's happened...). If you're really upset about the CNJ/THM thing, you now have a year to level up a class that you should have had capped in the first place, and now you can get it to cap in less than a week!

Really, they can't appease everybody, so they're trying to do the best they can by making the majority happy. Check yourself before you wreck yourself, bro ;o

Quit your crying, I'm a CNJ too and you don't see me whining like a school girl who just got dumped.

As has been said in numerous numerous threads, the dev team has changed we can't expect the same idea's that the orginally team had to stick with the game, personally I hate the armory system always have, anything they do to make it less mish mashy is good in my book.

Most the time when I'm playing a CNJ I'm using a staff, shield is handy when you are soloing but stoneskin is much better.

Lets not forget that the majority of the people who answered the players poll said they would be happy with drastic changes, well guess what .. we got what we asked for.

If you're afraid you're gonna lose 'progress' in this game - don't play it until its final version.
You're playing in a phase of major updates/changes, deal with it and stop crying or stop playing.

Asking to be compensated for playing a game is the most ridiculous load a crap I've ever heard.

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Originally Posted by Rau

Would you welcome changes to FINAL FANTASY XIV that would drastically alter the rules already set in Eorzea?

http://thesilentchief.com/wp-content...22_652_780.png

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OP is nothing but QQ.


Game had to be remade almost from scratch, be thankful they let us keep our chars.

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Originally Posted by Ilean

OP is nothing but QQ.


Game had to be remade almost from scratch, be thankful they let us keep our chars.

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People that are crying and complaining about it now... may actually like it when 2.0 "ACTUALLY" comes out ya know...

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Originally Posted by Rau

Would you welcome changes to FINAL FANTASY XIV that would drastically alter the rules already set in Eorzea?

http://thesilentchief.com/wp-content...22_652_780.png

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You beat me to it. People are complaining about big changes but almost everyone said yes to drastic changes. Changes are for the best, learn to adapt.

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Originally Posted by Mihana

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Really nice post Mihana. I often feel the same way about the changes, but I tell myself that I knew it was going to be under construction when I started, and therefore anything could change. I still will voice my feelings if there is a change I don't care for though.

I have felt like the game has been migrating to be more "wow-like", but there is still a significant enough difference, along with other features coming up, to keep me very interested. In the end, although it won't be the original FFXIV, it still will be unique to itself, I think. We'll see when we get there. :)

In the case of the shield, for anyone who uses it on another class besides gladiator, I definitely understand why they'd be upset. But though I can understand that, Neptune, I don't think it's fair to say that Yoshi-P doesn't care. I think he cares very much, and has tried to show an ear for his players. But he is one man, and cannot possibly think of everything. Which is the exact point of the forums. Anyone who doesn't like a change, should voice it, but perhaps they should count to ten before doing so, no? :p

So basically:

Mad because Conj -> Whm and Sentinel being wiped out.

Seriously? Your only valid argument is the conjurer one and even then, the hints have been pretty obvious about this shift. How about you figure out a productive solution? Something like, I dunno, leveling Thaum so you can play Black Mage when it comes out. Sounds like it would actually fix your problem to me.

Being mad about Sentinel is pretty hilarious though. Really? Hard work? Nope, you just equipped a shield and got free SP/XP. Your argument would ONLY be valid if you leveled it 1-50 immediately at launch when you actually had to use shield actions to gain Sentinel ranks. Even then it's kind of a flimsy argument because the game went under new management and those things were changed.

The game is still in a state of great and drastic change, nothing (aside from our character data) is guaranteed at this point.

The changes that are coming are proof that they are listening to the playerbase. Most if not all of these changes are what the majority of players wanted. You =/= the majority. They can't please everyone, and I guarantee that if they didn't make these changes, someone else would be complaining about it. Really, you just have to deal or gtfo.

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Originally Posted by Masamune1004

The changes that are coming are proof that they are listening to the playerbase. Most if not all of these changes are what the majority of players wanted. You =/= the majority. They can't please everyone, and I guarantee that if they didn't make these changes, someone else would be complaining about it. Really, you just have to deal or gtfo.

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Essentially. I mean especially with the mage issue, no matter what choice they made there would be a great deal of players unhappy with how things turned out. They really couldn't win with that decision. At least they made a decision and gave us that information more than a patch in advance. Hopefully people will now level the class for the job they want and be ready for 1.21 (or whenever jobs come out). That's really the best they could do in this situation. Make a decision and give the players the info ahead of time so they can pursue a productive solution.

i don't understand. people are still confused about THM getting BLM and CNJ getting WHM? people didn't see this coming? people couldn't connect the dots when CNJ gets stuff like rebirth, raise 2, curaga, paralyna, silena, etc... and thm gets stuff like drain, siphon mp, shadowsear, poison, and *a noted lack of rebirth, raise 2, and aoe heals*?

"but but amagad elemental magic!"

you willingly chose to focus in on one thing which ran in the face of a mountain of contradictory evidence, and now you're upset when that one thing didn't hold any weight vs. all the other obvious clues. congratulations, i guess. amazing.

as if it's even difficult to level *that other job which shan't be named (and/or can't be pronounced)* right now. as if you wouldn't gain some really sexy and useful skills to cross-class to make you a better whatever-the-hell-you-want-to-be.

(as far as shield getting the axe as a 'class' because you leveled it for 'useful skills'- shouldn't you be spending more energy complaining about how those skills were rendered largely useless anyway with the changes to blocking? which had nothing at all to do with any of your rant? yes, i see.)

what in the world is even going on. which planet do i live on? are there really this many threads with this many posts of people upset about this topic? is this real life?

and the fact that square radically changes and redesigns the game (and in the future- remakes entirely) upon player/community outcry, doing what 85% of them wanted to the best of their ability in an unfinished game that is still in flux and will be for some time... to prove they care about their players/community...

... is now somehow evidence of directly the opposite to you and those who share your opinion? square does something the vast majority of their players want, and because *you* don't want it- it proves they don't care about 'the players'? which players, exactly? you seem to be implying all of them as a whole- which is outright fallacious.

i get it, you're upset. and i don't mean to take it out on you, if that's what it seems like. but you're projecting, and i'm tired of seeing these topics. you can't please everyone all the time, and square is doing their best to please most people most of the time. for some reason (mostly your own fault), you aren't one of the people that are being pleased right now. and that sucks.

but right now the squeakiest wheel is also the minority, and the more attention given to the deluge of these topics (which are going nowhere for aforementioned reasons & others)- the less attention given to things that are still in desperate need of a look-over. some of which are outright broken right now.

these forums are for expressing opinion and giving constructive feedback. and that's fine. but this many threads about this particular topic? it's getting asinine, and can only be counterproductive.

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Originally Posted by Ilean

Game had to be remade almost from scratch, be thankful they let us keep our chars.

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this right here. they A. didn't shut down servers, letting us continue playing while overhauling this game *and* making an entirely new game at the same time, and B. are letting us keep all our progress EXCEPT FOR SHIELD (which you actually still keep if you have gladiator leveled, lulz) when we transfer over to the entirely new version of the game in the future.

that's unprecedented.

it's like people are just *finding anything* to moan about. and i mean... there are definitely some things worth moaning over. but this?

lol.

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Originally Posted by Mamba

Why should this get locked?
I think OP has a valid point.

I also feel that lots of the things we have done in the past up until now AND until end of next year will be in vain.

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The only reason you feel this way is because you likely don't understand this is a game that's going through a major overhaul -- An MMO that's been given to you for free beyond a box price for a year. In order to get this game off of the ground major changes need to happen, they're even making it harder to overhaul this game by allowing players to keep the majority of their data.

People voted for class changes as well because let's face it, absolute freedom can't be balanced.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

How about, if your Sentinel class is wiped, a free Gladiator class to make up for it. How about if your class is wiped or changed extensively, we will make up for it by giving you a choice that's meaningful. Not "your class is wiped by the way your gains are invalid" with nothing further.

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how about, you level your thm 7 more levels to 50 if you wanna be a blm so badly. how about, you level your gladiator 11 more levels to 50 if you want to cross class the shield skills.

43 to 50? two or three natalan parties.
39 to 50? a couple iron lakes raptors parties and two or three natalan parties after that.

if you spent less time complaining about this and more time in game being productive, you'd knock that out in a weekish (2 hours a day for five or six days) or less and your entire argument would be rendered moot.

your argument is ludicrous anyway because *you never leveled sentinel as a class of its own*- it just came along with your conjurer/thaumaturge levels. *you invested absolutely zero additional effort on this* and were rewarded free skills as a result. yet you're acting like you're being punished for 50 levels of added effort? laughable.

so you effectively want your non-effort resulting in free skills to be compensated for more free skills for no effort?

you could've just said so from the beginning rather than parading around with this ridiculous and completely unfounded sense of entitlement.

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Originally Posted by fusional

how about, you level your thm 7 more levels to 50 if you wanna be a blm so badly. how about, you level your gladiator 11 more levels to 50 if you want to cross class the shield skills.

43 to 50? two or three natalan parties.
39 to 50? a couple iron lakes raptors parties and two or three natalan parties after that.

if you spent less time complaining about this and more time in game being productive, you'd knock that out in a weekish (2 hours a day for five or six days) or less and your entire argument would be rendered moot.

your argument is ludicrous anyway because *you never leveled sentinel as a class of its own*- it just came along with your conjurer/thaumaturge levels. *you invested absolutely zero additional effort on this* and were rewarded free skills as a result. yet you're acting like you're being punished for 50 levels of added effort? laughable.

so you effectively want your non-effort resulting in free skills to be compensated for more free skills for no effort?

you could've just said so from the beginning rather than parading around with this ridiculous and completely unfounded sense of entitlement.

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I can't read a Neptune post without laughing at how immensely idiotic they are...


You hit the nail on the head with what you said... and honestly 43 - 50 can be done easily in 3 hours or less in a good party.

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Originally Posted by Mamba

I also find it slightly annoying that I can't be the DD THM now with my shield... why did I lvl my THM with a crappy wand when I could have played with a staff?

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Who said that you can't equip a shield with a one-hand weapon anymore? SE only said that you can earn your shield skills only with GLA after 1.20.
I think you can still equip a shield and the shield skills as cross-class skills as mage.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Who said that you can't equip a shield with a one-hand weapon anymore? SE only said that you can earn your shield skills only with GLA after 1.20.
I think you can still equip a shield and the shield skills as cross-class skills as mage.

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You're partly right. Shield skill is being abolished, as in it won't exist as itself. However it will happen, GLD will absorb its skills (somehow). But, as it stands, it seems other classes will still be able to equip shields.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

The reason people voted yes so strongly, was to fix the problems they complained about, not the problems they didn't complain about.
If they decided to delete everyone's character the day before 2.0, are you STILL going to return to; "Well, you DID vote for drastic changes."

(Deletion being done, solely to change all races into 1 new one, with a new world/story, and no levels/exp, or classes. Pure example of how this relates.)

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This is what I was thinking myself. The general rhetoric from the previous posts is "if Square-Enix decided to turn your character into a walking lump of shit, embrace it, because you DID ask for radical change, didn't you?" Neptune still has a right to criticize changes he feels don't make sense - and IMO, invalidating the use of Sentinel on anything BUT the GLA class made me scratch my head. This is coming from a 50 GLA - I found it rather neat that the DoM classes had differing options on how they could play themselves - either all out with a two handed staff, or a bit more defensively with a wand and shield.
Edit: I see that now you have to level GLA to 50 to have access to shield skills. Well, that sucks. I know it's necessary for streamlining, but that sucks regardless - GLA's a pretty gimped class at the moment.

tl;dr - Change can be good, but change for the sake of change can be equally as stupid.

CNJ players aren't mad they're not going to be BLM, they're mad because they're getting hit the hardest from the spell streamlining. We don't know details yet but cutting the CNJ ability list down to 15 is going to hurt somewhere. That, along with CNJ/THM players now having to level Gladiator (which is at the other end of the job spectrum) to get their shield skills back again and they have every right to complain.

I think it's best if we wait to see the exact details, but the way it's been announced so far has been driving people into mass panic. I don't like the idea of possibly losing 2/3rds of my CNJ spells, but ultimately we need to wait and see what SE have planned.

While the game was free, I expected huge major changes, even ones that could alter the game immensely.

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Originally Posted by Uriko

CNJ players aren't mad they're not going to be BLM, they're mad because they're getting hit the hardest from the spell streamlining. We don't know details yet but cutting the CNJ ability list down to 15 is going to hurt somewhere. That, along with CNJ/THM players now having to level Gladiator (which is at the other end of the job spectrum) to get their shield skills back again and they have every right to complain.

I think it's best if we wait to see the exact details, but the way it's been announced so far has been driving people into mass panic. I don't like the idea of possibly losing 2/3rds of my CNJ spells, but ultimately we need to wait and see what SE have planned.

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You get to choose 10 skills from other classes. You're telling me that you would use 3 skill slots to get Aegis boon, Deflection, and Outmaneuver? Maybe you won't take all three, maybe you just want Aegis Boon... you don't know what level that will be given to gladiator at. If it's level 15 are you going to be mad? How about level 20? 25? 30?

Let's be honest, how many serious mages don't have gladiator at level 36 right now for Sentinel?

Unless they fix the horrible block rate, I don't see any point for complaining as you might block 1 attack over the duration of any shield skills.

Anyway, if I were a mage and I could only take 10 cross-class skills... knowing that classes are for solo / light party play.. I think I would choose things from THM. Really people have no idea how the spell streamlining will work, so why even bother to speculate. Just senseless QQ about the unknown.

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Originally Posted by RemVye

You get to choose 10 skills from other classes. You're telling me that you would use 3 skill slots to get Aegis boon, Deflection, and Outmaneuver?

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I personally don't use any of them (I don't use a shield, so it never was a concern for me). The point is that if mages want to use slots for the shield skills they should be able to- having to level a completely different class is an unneeded extra amount of grind. At least with the old system, you could use the shield on CNJ/THM and play mage while getting your shield skills. Now if you do want the shield-focused skills, you have to level a class that you might have no interest in playing.

To be honest, the shield skills should have been Gladiator ones from the very start, rather than having Sentinel as a separate class. That way this problem might not have happened. People are just irritated that they need to grind more to get abilities that they may have already learned.

As I said, we do need to wait and see how SE are handling the skill changes, but it doesn't change the amount of extra grinding THM/CNJ players need to do if they want shield skills again. Doesn't affect me personally but I can see why some players are up in arms.

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Originally Posted by Uriko

I personally don't use any of them (I don't use a shield, so it never was a concern for me). The point is that if mages want to use slots for the shield skills they should be able to- having to level a completely different class is an unneeded extra amount of grind. At least with the old system, you could use the shield on CNJ/THM and play mage while getting your shield skills. Now if you do want the shield-focused skills, you have to level a class that you might have no interest in playing.

To be honest, the shield skills should have been Gladiator ones from the very start, rather than having Sentinel as a separate class. That way this problem might not have happened. People are just irritated that they need to grind more to get abilities that they may have already learned.

As I said, we do need to wait and see how SE are handling the skill changes, but it doesn't change the amount of extra grinding THM/CNJ players need to do if they want shield skills again. Doesn't affect me personally but I can see why some players are up in arms.

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Don't get me wrong, I understand where the argument is coming from. But, this is what you get with the armory system. If you want to be as effective as you can, efficient as you can, the best that you can be... you will have to level other classes.

You could complain the same thing for any class, holding the fact that classes are solo / light parties and jobs will be for full party / end game. "I don't want to level pug to get second wind" "i dont want to level con to get cure" "i dont want to level thm to get sacrifice" "i dont want to level lancer to get invigorate" "i dont want to level mrd to get bloodbath / defender" "i dont want to level archer to get out of sight / quickstride"
-- "i dont want to level gladiator to get shield skills" With out some of the above skills solo play on a melee would be pretty hardcore.

So don't do it if you don't want to. When jobs come out this shouldn't be an issue if you're in a full party anyway.

New players won't know any different, old players know ahead of time and can "prepare", but really like I said what serious mage doesn't have gladiator to 36 for sentinel? Sentinel is 10x better than any shield skill, and has been deemed all but essential for Ifrit.

My issue is that every time they make a change that effect the OP he makes a new threads trying to explain how he was personally effected by the change, and how he should be compensated. He had a thread detailing how anyone who leveled conjurer to be a nuker should now be given a buff of THM to 50 so they can play BLM. Now he is claiming some warped chaim of logic to justify why he should have a his gladiator class buffed to 50 because of sentinal changes.

Its not enough that you have been playing free for a year, but now there are a few that want classes buffed to 50 for no effort as well.

With that mentality, everyone who leveled an archer because of its high damage output should get there lancer class buffed to 50 for nothing. As well as all those who leveled a gladiator should get marauder buffed to 50 for free as well.

Since we are on the subject, I leveled goldsmith. Goldsmith recieved a hosing compared to the other DoH in the last update. All my items I make are deemed dated. By the OPs logic, I should be allowed to choose another DoH class and get it freely buffed to 50 as well.

DEATH TO ALL DPS MAGES!!!! ...that is all. tyvm.

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Originally Posted by RemVye

Don't get me wrong, I understand where the argument is coming from. But, this is what you get with the armory system. If you want to be as effective as you can, efficient as you can, the best that you can be... you will have to level other classes.

You could complain the same thing for any class, holding the fact that classes are solo / light parties and jobs will be for full party / end game. "I don't want to level pug to get second wind" "i dont want to level con to get cure" "i dont want to level thm to get sacrifice" "i dont want to level lancer to get invigorate" "i dont want to level mrd to get bloodbath / defender" "i dont want to level archer to get out of sight / quickstride"
-- "i dont want to level gladiator to get shield skills" With out some of the above skills solo play on a melee would be pretty hardcore.

So don't do it if you don't want to. When jobs come out this shouldn't be an issue if you're in a full party anyway.

New players won't know any different, old players know ahead of time and can "prepare", but really like I said what serious mage doesn't have gladiator to 36 for sentinel? Sentinel is 10x better than any shield skill, and has been deemed all but essential for Ifrit.

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The main difference being that many of these mages have already leveled Sentinel for the abilities, and will now be required to level a class to get the same abilities again. That'd be like leveling MRD to 48 for Defender II (regardless of whether you like MRD or not) , then Defender II getting switched to another class. I know shield leveling was a bit easier because you could do it on the fly at the same time as GLA/THM/CNJ, but the basic principle is the same.

No-one is asking for GLA to be leveled for free as 'payment' for losing shield skills, it just strikes me as odd that the dev team would wait this long to switch the skillset over. Obviously 1.20 is preparation for jobs in 1.21 but some of the changes seem to have come without much warning. Remember that not everyone has all DoW/DoM classes at 50; particularly newer players who might not have had time yet. You have to see it from both sides; if you were a CNJ/THM player who hadn't leveled GLA and all of your shield abilities suddenly disappeared you'd probably be a bit annoyed that you now need to level GLA as well.

For me, leveling Gladiator to get Sentinel was never a priority (I can't stand GLA so honestly the thought never occurred to me), so while I admit most 50 CNJ/THM will already have Sentinel, there will be a lot who are still adversely affected by the changes. All that can be said is to learn to adapt to them, but I think this is why a lot of people are kicking off over it. I really need to see a full list of the changes lined up before I make any decisions really.

I'd say wait until they release info on the class reforms in detail with part 2. What makes you so sure that CON/THM won't gain actions/traits that make use of the shield in a more magey way?

The thead is silly, because as always Neptune is complaining about something we know nothing about. Complaining/discussing over speculation is a pastime at best, and should never be taken seriously.

thanks OP, your post has given me a few minutes of laughter.

though it did further lower my outlook for the future of mankind.

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Originally Posted by Uriko

The main difference being that many of these mages have already leveled Sentinel for the abilities, and will now be required to level a class to get the same abilities again. That'd be like leveling MRD to 48 for Defender II (regardless of whether you like MRD or not) , then Defender II getting switched to another class. I know shield leveling was a bit easier because you could do it on the fly at the same time as GLA/THM/CNJ, but the basic principle is the same.

No-one is asking for GLA to be leveled for free as 'payment' for losing shield skills, it just strikes me as odd that the dev team would wait this long to switch the skillset over. Obviously 1.20 is preparation for jobs in 1.21 but some of the changes seem to have come without much warning. Remember that not everyone has all DoW/DoM classes at 50; particularly newer players who might not have had time yet. You have to see it from both sides; if you were a CNJ/THM player who hadn't leveled GLA and all of your shield abilities suddenly disappeared you'd probably be a bit annoyed that you now need to level GLA as well.

For me, leveling Gladiator to get Sentinel was never a priority (I can't stand GLA so honestly the thought never occurred to me), so while I admit most 50 CNJ/THM will already have Sentinel, there will be a lot who are still adversely affected by the changes. All that can be said is to learn to adapt to them, but I think this is why a lot of people are kicking off over it. I really need to see a full list of the changes lined up before I make any decisions really.

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You do realize they are switching around abilities and actions right.... and there is a pretty high chance that Gladiator may get Defender.

You were made fully aware that the abilities of each class were going to be re-arranged and distributed, so I fail to see your complaint.

As far as having Sentinel skills on a mage, I've never used them... had zero need. The classes themselves have sufficient defensive abilities and offensive to carry me through any leve, quest, party, or dungeon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Actually I did vote against drastic changes, but I was seriously on the fence.

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{That's too bad}, next time be more careful what you vote.

For now stop whining.

Two words: L, O, L, oh wait that's Three O_o... Sometimes I think that topics now are complaints rather then feedback...