On the fence about this one, in many previous posts good points were made anywhere from queue times to keeping tanks and healers in the game,i know it would be a letdown for any career tanks or healers to get the shaft while dps got new shiny toys to play with, esp what we had seen in 2.4 with ninjas arrival, that part is definately true,2 hour dungeon queues etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synestra
My main concern is that a both roles have to be rigidly designed to do their role, with little room for different gameplay or style
b-in all most likelihood theyll just be designed, yet again, to compete with one of the other 3 jobs(warrior, scholar)
I dont know how id feel about "just another x"
When DRK was showcased and announced, I sort of was expecting something different than a tank that competed for pld slot
but thats how it ended up.
For those into the rdm tank idea, it would in most likelihood compete with warrior,
which to me, totally takes away from alot of these support suggestions and such,
otherwise it will just compete with pld and drk yet again. As a damage based healer,
competing with scholar, though not my best envision, it would probably fit better, if it isnt a dps.
Then again something similar to warrior, probably will backfire, and the comp will prob end up rdm/war unless they give personal limit breaks, instead of slowing the lb gauge if 2 of the same job is in the comp. This is a way they could give pld and drk some meaningful raid utility, but it would have to be some really good effects.
Yet another Red Mage post, but hear me out, please.
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10-13-2016, 12:17 AMADVSS
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10-13-2016, 06:27 AMThunda_Cat_SMASH
Please, no RDM healer. The community in this game makes healing way too damn stressful, and I'd hate to be forced away from a job I'd always loved because the community gets upset whenever a healer doesn't dps. =x=
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10-13-2016, 09:51 AMADVSSIt would be interesting to implement, but would probably be a melee healer, so dps would most likely be its forte(if theyre trying to push scholar back some, or compete). Though some would say that idea wouldnt work out. And how does making it a tank any less stressful to others? Then you gotta dps all the time, drop defensive stance or "you suck"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH
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10-13-2016, 10:04 AMThunda_Cat_SMASHTanks are required to deal damage already in order to maintain hate. Dropping defensive stance is a natural step forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVSS
Healers don't contribute to anything except their own ego when they dps, so a healer dpsing is a pretty significant gameplay change. You don't have to dps in order to heal, and you can't heal when you're dpsing.((Unless you have bloodbath active))
Edit to add: No one really cares about a tank running in tank stance from what I've seen, but they WILL harass a non-dpsing healer to no end. -
10-13-2016, 10:57 AMADVSSI can assure you if the tank is doing the bare minimum (one aoe every 6 seconds and just auto attacking) that they would catch flack as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH
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10-13-2016, 04:11 PMReynhartConsidering that, apart from WAR, tanks deal the most damage when they generate the less threat, it's not at all "natural".Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH
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10-13-2016, 04:23 PMADVSS
Again as i mentioned this time around, its very probable that a tank and healer added will be put in place to do so. SE has to be very carefull how they do this, because if they slip uo you'll have a WAR/WAR (aka new tank/WAR) comp that literally blows drk and pld out of the water. Same if they assurredly compete with SCH it may backfire. The safest route is to introduce dps, but that risks losing healers and tanks, who truly will feel left out. So as i said, im on the fence about the whole subject
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10-13-2016, 07:40 PMDaulBanIf double WAR isn't good enough now pre whatever nerfs or tweaks they have in store for it now, double aggro tank in the new raid tier probably won't see play (especially if WAR mitigation gets tweaked). It'd be much safer to go with OT/DRK and take the small hit to DPS in exchange for less glass-cannon situation. inb4 PLD meta after cover buff though.Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVSS
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10-18-2016, 02:32 AMMadroneFinal Fantasy: Dimensions RDM gets the Mystic Knight/Spell Fencer toolkits. They use different names but they're the abilities generally categorized as SpellBlade/Magic Sword and also Runic. And yeah, FFXI enspells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynhart
And anyway, SE likes to blend 2 jobs in one for XIV... look at THF/NIN and BRD/RNG and TIM/GMB who is also a mix of WHM/SCH (aka AST). If you were going to make a DoM DPS that melees and casts spells (ie RDM), RDM/MYS are good candidates to blend together to make that happen.
Many don't want it to be a healer. That's like just one thing it can do, and not very well. Although yes, it also means being capable of Caster style DPS. But you have to figure a way to make it competitive with and different from the current healers. Sharing their gear sets would make it have weaker defense than its supposed to have, but not sharing gives it a defensive advantage over the other healers, and makes it a stepchild with red hair for not fitting the mold. It straight up shouldn't melee if its a Healer due to aoe and targeting mechanics. So being a healer pretty much craps on RDM's using a sword, not to mention the amount of stancing that would be needed to heal, cast offensive magic, and use melee skills.
Many don't want it to be a tank because its never really been particularly tanky and sharing heavy armor sets won't make it look right. So its going to use VIT and STR for main stats? Casting spells while being hit also presents a problem, unless they're all instant.
At least with being a MYS-blended DPS, it can use INT for main stat for both meleing (enchanted sword) and spell casting. It has to have its healer kit weakened to be in this role, but it can still do a little bit of healing or defensive support and possibly raise. This is a good role to provide utility in the form of buffs or debuffs- Virus, E4E, Cure, Raise, Foe's, Trick Attack, Goad.... all examples of utility skills usable in this role. They don't have to have these things exactly, but similar skills fit RDM's profile well, like inflicting damage vulnerabilities or attack power debuffs, or providing resource recovery, defense/offense boosts, or backup healing to party members.
RDM is hard enough to balance into a trinity role. Why muck up the issue more by picking a role that's proven hard to balance the jobs inside it? - Tank or Healer. In the DPS role you worry about adjusting two sliders- how much damage it does, and how much its utility is valued by the party.
Regarding queue times new jobs being certain roles... for instance I think we'll get 2 DPS in 4.0.
Expansion means every job has shiny new stuff from the level cap increase and all are being leveled. Roulettes drop people down into lower level dungeons if new jobs start at a level lower than 60. Fates, PotD, daily hunts, and leves provide alternate methods of leveling with faster or no queues. -
10-18-2016, 05:00 AMMagiusNecros
Well when you have Red Mage which by FF tradition is supposed to be Jack of all trades and the master of none one would think it could perform all 3 roles, on the other hand if a game has constant trouble balancing the trinity and wants each job to do only one thing it's kinda of hilarious to even consider the RDM to begin with. RDM will be added but it probably won't play anything like one.
If they just add 2 more DPS for 4.0 I'll be disappointed. It's just gonna be bloated with DPS classes. And the new jobs will only be hyped about for like 2 weeks before people find something to stick with. -
10-18-2016, 06:45 PMDuelleThat's poor reasoning, since balance would call for the class to be gimped to hell or made to lean towards one role in order to be considered for content without stupid gimmicks (see: Refresh).Quote:
Originally Posted by MagiusNecros
The balance problem comes from a conflict between the trinity and traces of the console-FF mentality where every job is a one-trick pony that does only one thing well (not applicable to every job, but evident in some cases).Quote:
on the other hand if a game has constant trouble balancing the trinity and wants each job to do only one thing it's kinda of hilarious to even consider the RDM to begin with.
If I'm swinging a sword and have the choice of using magic to either nuke the mob (dealing decent DPS) or heal an ally, I'll be playing very much like a Red Mage.Quote:
RDM will be added but it probably won't play anything like one.
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10-19-2016, 12:08 AMKeltraeng
And disciples of war doesn't have a healing class...what's your point? Red mage will be placed in the game if it fits. The last thing they need is to cram a job into the game that doesn't fit. It's not something the game needs to be honest the game has done just fine with or without it. If it fits ok but if not then don't put it in. End of story.