Class Reform info.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

Are FU**EN kidding me?
So a low level BLM will be casting THE EXACT SAME spell effect as a level 50 only with less damage? how does that make sense? how is that uinique?
please tell me im miss understanding this....

---

Yeah but it's not forever. I think they're redoing all the graphical stuff even as we type for release 1.21/22ish

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

Are FU**EN kidding me?
So a low level BLM will be casting THE EXACT SAME spell effect as a level 50 only with less damage? how does that make sense? how is that uinique?
please tell me im miss understanding this....

---

They did say that they'll make graphical changes in 1.21 and beyond.

Who knows, maybe the fire animation will change as you get higher.

on the combo example:

1. whack the marmot from front using WS1, + 20% damage!
2. immediately do WS 3 , DING! COMBO! +20% damage!
3. move behind the marmot
4. immediately do WS 4 , DING! COMBO 2!! Bleed!! + 25% Bleed damage!

well, it will make battle more interesting...but I must choose between additional damage or ogre's elbow drop then....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sorel

The fact that it take only about a day to level a class to Level 10, means that you'll have players gaining their first 5 actions relatively quickly, but their next 5 actions will be gained 20 experience levels later. The deceleration may be too jarring, especially with the current XP curve.

Plus, with the implementation of auto-attack there isn't a necessity to give a level one class (i.e. a character that just picked a new weapon) a class ability immediately. I think they'll be able to hold their own against the field mice and through the tutorial battles until they hit level 2. Plus they'll still have one fallback ability from a previous class.

What I'm suggesting is a CNJ1 with no other classes, can only auto-attack and use a cross-class ability (which he doesn't have yet). At CNJ2, that character can now Cure. If that character wants, it can change class to GLA1 and equip Cure as a cross-class ability, even though he hasn't learned any abilities from Gladiator yet. There really isn't a need for a character in the Armory System to learn an ability immediately from touching a weapon without having used it at least a little bit. Otherwise what you'll have is players buying one of each weapon at Level 1, just to gain every possible cross-class ability ... all at Level 1!

Again, these are minor issues, and overall I really really like this direction with abilities. It just needs tweaking.

---

I can't really see how any of those are bad things, personally. When you're first loading up the game, would you really want to select one of the mages and not have any spells? It'd be super weird. There's nothing wrong with having something basic to play around with when you're learning how to play the game, and not being bored by doing nothing but watching auto attack scroll by until you gain a level. Same deal with the rate of ability acquisition early on; I imagine it's to be able to introduce the comboing mechanic while the character is still in an environment where the stakes are relatively low and there's not much pressure.

I can almost understand having some concern over being able to grab all the level 1 abilities with almost no effort, but then again.. it's not like there isn't a strict limit on cross-class abilities that can be equipped early on regardless. It seems like a nice idea to be able to let new players easily pick up a second ability to test out when leveling to fifteen, without having to worry too much about making any wrong choices.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

Are FU**EN kidding me?
So a low level BLM will be casting THE EXACT SAME spell effect as a level 50 only with less damage? how does that make sense? how is that uinique?
please tell me im miss understanding this....

---

Actually...don't necessarily think this is the case..if they scale it it might be at low level your spell is the size of a pea...then at each level the spell grows...until you have a watermelon. Just a thought...we don't know...This is why I hate it when people demand stuff...they give us just enough to spark our curiosity and everyone assumes...

Skills, spells, traits...getting changed and adjusted and further graphical changes all the way up to 2.0...so at this point it's anyone's guess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NarikoStar

Fire, Fire II will be condensed to one spell, I'm /assuming/ ancient magic such as Flare will be a separate spell.

---

how bout Fira and Firaga? any prediction?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arkine

They did say that they'll make graphical changes in 1.21 and beyond.

Who knows, maybe the fire animation will change as you get higher.

---

The Final Fantasy series is one of the only series in history to focus on tiered magic spells that become more amazing upon its higher tiers.
it adds to the visual effect of being more powerful.

i dont get why they need to condense them at all though. so we have less of a long list to choose from?
Nuking just got even uglier.....

Quote:

---

Otherwise what you'll have is players buying one of each weapon at Level 1, just to gain every possible cross-class ability ... all at Level 1!

---

But they'll only be able to equip one of them.

Quote:

---

i dont get why they need to condense them at all though. so we have less of a long list to choose from?

---

Maybe to add AoE spells?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aion

how bout Fira and Firaga? any prediction?

---

Currently fire and ancient magic can be /aoe on/off I haven't seen any mention of them being added but then again, post 2 we'll be seeing the complete list for each job.

We have cure and curaga, I'm assuming curaga will be staying and not become condensed because it is AoE. So it would make sense for them to add a fira or firaga but I haven't seen anything mentioned ;) We'll have to wait and see!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aion

so we will not see Fire II and ancient spell again on CNJ?

---

Quote:

---

Upper tiers of an action (such as Fire II and Fire III) will be abolished in favor of a system wherein potency and MP cost are scaled based on the player’s level.

---

I believe that ancient spells have only 1 tier and does not have higher tiers here. No "II" after the ancient spell, is there?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Agoven

Actually...don't necessarily think this is the case..if they scale it it might be at low level your spell is the size of a pea...then at each level the spell grows...until you have a watermelon. Just a thought...we don't know...This is why I hate it when people demand stuff...they give us just enough to spark our curiosity and everyone assumes...

Skills, spells, traits...getting changed and adjusted and further graphical changes all the way up to 2.0...so at this point it's anyone's guess.

---

Its their own responsibility to make sure their message comes off as clear. these people speak both japanese and english fluently. my entire family is completely bi lingual and they have no problem whatsoever being less vague than that... if vagueness is the case and their translation is not 100% informative.

magic classes arent just for damage numbers, a large part of being a magic class is the cool spell effects. im way bummed as ive been waiting for 1.20 to fiiiinally immerse myself into BLM.

i dont like melee classes yet i find CNJ to be less visually appealing atm... now it got even uglier.

BTW, this is literally my first real gripe about anything theyve done.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Acydcross

I believe that ancient spells have only 1 tier and does not have higher tiers here. No "II" after the ancient spell, is there?

---

The only Final fantasy to my knowledge that had teir II ancient magic was XI, (earned via merit points on BLM)

Level1 conj fire is going to look like striking a match and will look better every 3 months.

There won't be fire after 1.20!

No rasp. No burn. No tornado. No freeze. No stone.

^ lololol

I hope I can see the level 1 fire animation if I so desire even though I'm level 50 ;( I might just have to level a mule if it really looks like a match strike LOL

15 actions. No room for elemental nukes.

They will have to do something else about them. Condense them, remove them, but they can't be counted as 5 different actions anymore.

Honestly, this FF tradition bullshit is pulling the game down. There is no need for 5 different spells that basically do the same damn thing.

Biggest concern are recast timers for the healing and damage spells. it's great to do all of this consolidation, but it will flat out suck if you're basically nerfing healers and casters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

15 actions. No room for elemental nukes.

They will have to do something else about them. Condense them, remove them, but they can't be counted as 5 different actions anymore.

Honestly, this FF tradition bullshit is pulling the game down. There is no need for 5 different spells that basically do the same damn thing.

---

I would agree, although I can't say that I'm not a bit concern with recast timers now that our spells are all condensed to one...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NarikoStar

I would agree, although I can't say that I'm not a bit concern with recast timers now that our spells are all condensed to one...

---

Th... that's how I've always played...

Of course I've always had a bunch of junk in my action bar anyway from other classes... so even in the current situation I was never able to have a bar full of elemental actions... nevermind all the tiers. But I dont' see where they are removing elemental spells? Can someone point me to where it says that? or was that a joke? Sorry, it's early... :,(

I think some spell lose T2 but cure and other stuff would stay i find it funny if they just have 1 cure o.O

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

But I dont' see where they are removing elemental spells? Can someone point me to where it says that? or was that a joke? Sorry, it's early... :,(

---

They are condensing class actions into 15 per class. Right now CNJ and THM have more like 30+. The elemental spells do not fit into that 15 limit. They may not remove them, but they must figure out some other way to make them fit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

Its their own responsibility to make sure their message comes off as clear. these people speak both japanese and english fluently. my entire family is completely bi lingual and they have no problem whatsoever being less vague than that... if vagueness is the case and their translation is not 100% informative.

magic classes arent just for damage numbers, a large part of being a magic class is the cool spell effects. im way bummed as ive been waiting for 1.20 to fiiiinally immerse myself into BLM.

i dont like melee classes yet i find CNJ to be less visually appealing atm... now it got even uglier.

BTW, this is literally my first real gripe about anything theyve done.

---

BLM isn't coming untill 1.21 with the jobs system.

But it is annoying how in every FF game its been tiered, I just hope the effect / range increases as you lvl up so it looks more powerful the higher you get.

I think Betelgeuzah was just saying 'remove' them as a statement as since we only have 15 slots now they needed to do /something/ to condense down the number of abilities we use and whatnot. :P I'm pretty sure he was using that as an example they haven't stated their removing any spell /yet/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fear

BLM isn't coming untill 1.21 with the jobs system.

But it is annoying how in every FF game its been tiered, I just hope the effect / range increases as you lvl up so it looks more powerful the higher you get.

---

this is literally my exact point and my only gripe since the reforms.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zenaku

I think some spell lose T2 but cure and other stuff would stay i find it funny if they just have 1 cure o.O

---

Yeah, I find this a bit odd too, we'll have Cure , Sacrifice, Curaga.
Even WoW healers have a a tier like cure system, and theres many times where you would want to use a lower tier cure etc for other reasons. Now, I'm assuming they had this come up while discussing the fate of DoM while doing this so I'm guessing jobs will have more to offer (ex: more spells etc)

The best example is how we have "Raise" and "Rebirth" they technically do the same thing rebirth just has more perks to it.

I'm just assuming this change is un-announcned but I can't see them 'okay' with running with only two non aoe cure types

i think it's quite oblius. Would be stupid otherwise

Quote:

---

Even WoW healers have a a tier like cure system

---

Actually, after cataclysm there's no more spell tiers, but a single tier scaling down with levels. Sound familiar ? http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...trollsmile.png

Honestly, I wasn't really happy from any of it.
:/
I knew jobs would kill most of my fun, but I figured I could always go back to classes for my solo fun... but geez... limiting my 'other class abilities' this much, is just too much at low Lvls... It's already hard enough with lack of real options at low Lvl.

I'll still wait and see how things turn out, but this announcement was just depressing from start to finish for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NarikoStar

Yeah, I find this a bit odd too, we'll have Cure , Sacrifice, Curaga.
Even WoW healers have a a tier like cure system, and theres many times where you would want to use a lower tier cure etc for other reasons. Now, I'm assuming they had this come up while discussing the fate of DoM while doing this so I'm guessing jobs will have more to offer (ex: more spells etc)

The best example is how we have "Raise" and "Rebirth" they technically do the same thing rebirth just has more perks to it.

I'm just assuming this change is un-announcned but I can't see them 'okay' with running with only two non aoe cure types

---

Well, there could be Cura, Curaga, Curasa, Curaja.....I don't know, I wasn't really one for the Roman number tiers after each spell for the more powerful spells. I much prefer the -ra, -ga, -sa, -ja and other endings.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

They are condensing class actions into 15 per class. Right now CNJ and THM have more like 30+. The elemental spells do not fit into that 15 limit. They may not remove them, but they must figure out some other way to make them fit.

---

But I thought all the elemental spells were learned upon equipping your weapon?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

But I thought all the elemental spells were learned upon equipping your weapon?

---

Post-1.20 you will learn one action at level 1. Another at lvl 4.

Sounds like an interesting system. I for one am looking forward to the list when it comes out and I hope the interface is better then the one we have now ;)

Class reform will truly be awesome! I like everything in it. I can't wait to see the rest of it. :D

Quote:

---

5. The Influence of Levels on Actions

As mentioned under 1. Class-specific Actions, upper tier actions will be abolished in favor of scaling the potency of the base action according to level. The effectiveness and MP cost of the action will be dependent upon the level of your current class.

---

That positively surprised me! It might be my favourite feature of the class reform. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nakiamiie

Class reform will truly be awesome! I like everything in it. I can't wait to see the rest of it. :D


That positively surprised me! It might be my favourite feature of the class reform. :D

---

for what reason?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

i think it's quite oblius. Would be stupid otherwise

Actually, after cataclysm there's no more spell tiers, but a single tier scaling down with levels. Sound familiar ? http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...trollsmile.png

---

Ahh, my bad I was referring to how Shamans have a "Lesser Healing Wave" and "Greater Healing Wave" spell, I didn't know cataclysm had condensed them or if your just strictly talking priest. D:

this is great news, i'm sure for anyone who plays both of the dom's right now finds it bloody awful when having to constantly change abilitys around for different situations like ifrit>strongholds>darkhold as an example.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

But I dont' see where they are removing elemental spells? Can someone point me to where it says that? or was that a joke? Sorry, it's early... :,(

---

Executable actions such as abilities, spells, and weaponskills can be learned by gaining in level.

We can't show you until we get told what/when skill/spell/trait we will get. Next letter from SE should answer what you ask.

In the letter from SE it shows what LVs we will get an "action" "trait" n " Cross Class Action"

Sorry, can you not see the table? It's hard to copy/paste to forums due to the table... I've screenshoted the first few- As NamudNevets stated though the exact spells / traits we learn at that level we wont see till part 2 of this post.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n...1at43540AM.png

Edit:

If I had to guess....

R1 = Spirit Dart
R2 = Elemental spells (Fire, Wind, Water, Earth, Blizzard, Thunder) Even though its multiple- they could change them to share the same cast timer as Ancient magic does- just a thought

R4= cure

^-- These are only based off of current optimal spells, as for traits, the convert attributes for CNJ are the first things you get with an optimal of rank 20... so I'm not quite sure what the rank 8 trait will be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Can someone please show me how rank 1 mages will only have 1 spell and rank 2 will have 2 spells and rank 4 will only have 3 spells?

---

This is just an example:

CNJ1 - Cure (action) + cross-class action #1
CNJ2 - Fire (action)
CNJ3 - (nothing)
CNJ4 - Aero (action)

It seems pretty straightforward. So I don't think this is what you are asking. Can you rephrase your question?

That table is just saying at what rank we learn spells. Please don't treat me like I'm stupid. :<

Quote:

---

We can't show you until we get told what/when skill/spell/trait we will get. Next letter from SE should answer what you ask.

---

I think you're right. I'll have to wait until the next announcement.