Japan Adrealine TV 3.4 PvP Update

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Greetings, adventurers!

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I cannot begin to express how happy I am to see the vast majority of these changes! Thank you, SE, for restoring some of my faith in your ability to manage this content. I'm looking forward to it ... except for one thing...

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

]Discussing The Feast (Rated) times
While this is still being debated internally, we’re discussing if we should restrict the hours in which The Feast can be played. For example, if such a system was implemented, we’d consider having The Feast open during each region’s peak hours.

The intent behind this idea would be to try and get more players involved in PvP content by having a specified time to queue where players could potentially get quicker matches, and once we have more players participating in PvP, then we could gradually increase the window of the time. Nothing is finalized here, it is still just a discussion we’re having within the team. We would like to hear your feedback on this as well, so be sure to let us know how you feel about this approach.

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I understand your reasoning here, but please do not do this.

Some of us work odd hours. I, myself, often don't get home to log in until well after midnight. I'm lucky to get one or two matches a night as things are now. If you restrict the times at which we are able to even queue for PvP, then you'll be effectively locking people like me out of the content we want to play the most. I get that you want to encourage as many new players to participate as possible, and you want to consolidate the queue line, but I really don't think this will help things in the long run. You could just as easily slap a disclaimer on the DF which outlines peak hours for PvP and have the same effect, rather than locking out anyone who has an abnormal work schedule or even just happens to live in a slightly different time zone than the majority of their server community.

One more question.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

On a related note, we’d like to mention that we’re currently working on a new cross-world Party Finder feature for Patch 3.5 as well.

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Can you give us any more details on this? We've been asking for cross server play for PvP for a while now, so I was excited when I read this, but Ranked Solo-Queue doesn't allow for parties. I'm assuming this feature would only be available for party-queue matches? That's not a bad thing, certainly. It would breathe some life into that game mode, especially on the less populated servers. I'm just curious if party-queue is the limit for this idea, or if we can possibly expect to see some cross-world matches in solo-queue as well via a DF check box or some other such option.

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Originally Posted by Februs

I understand your reasoning here, but please do not do this.

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I agree, do NOT lock queues for certain times, that's a bad idea.

The Feast rated times actually does sound pretty good on paper. Not only would it quicken queues but it would also better the players to the same field as opposed to be selectively queuing at certain times when they know they can avoid the better players. It would also serve to revive Frontlines somewhat outside the window of Feast being open since we clearly don't have the population to sustain both with decent queue times. That being said however I can also for see problems with this. Everyone playing at the same time also means your chances of being matched with new inexperienced players goes up as well. And with matchmaking having a tendency of grouping up the same ppl over and over after matches if they all queue immediately after match ends you can be stuck with the same ppl all night. Not to mention the feast window may not fall within some people's time of availability.

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

The Feast rated times actually does sound pretty good on paper. Not only would it quicken queues but it would also better EXPOSE the players to the same field as opposed to letting them selectively queue at certain times when they know they can avoid the better players.

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Requoted for clarity since phone won't allow for editing of posts.

I'm kinda on the fence with the restricted time idea. A part of me wants to say "No it'll block me from playing!", but it's not like I'm getting into matches anyway. On the other hand, if they have two open blocks a day this could actually be decent? Also with this only applying to Rated it might help get more casual matches underway.

Curious what rewards and achievements will be tied to custom match mode. This would have eliminated the pages of hate a few days ago if it is the same. It actually might be a better idea then an unranked feast que if your server is somewhat active.

Attack on the matchmaking system is stupid to begin with when the issue was caused by a small size of PvP community where a segment has been created. Those who have participated in Feast PvP early are trying to prevent new players entering Feast PvP on top of complaining about the awful queue time. It is clearly that S/E do not like this segment and willing to install mechanics to help a small PvP community to grow. This time restrict is just a temporary band-aid that S/E come up with until duel mode, custom match mode and spectator mode able to remove this segment.

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Originally Posted by SkyKlaws

We need another Seal Rock for making gear achievement easier! Or just "Connect" Seal Rock achievement to the Fields of Glory =(

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This. Mainly the second bit.

At first reading the part about 1x1 duelling, I was hesitant and anxious... but reading it further, it seems SE are being very wise about it and putting one of my biggest fears about it to rest, restricting it to a single zone and, more so, even seemingly locking the very ability to duel to that single zone, thus preventing all those nightmare situations I faced on other MMOs that had open-world duelling (The Old Republic, WoW to name a few) where I was harassed and taunted by idiots with chips on their shoulders simply because I refused to duel with them and even had a 'no-duelling' icon selected. But the way this has been explained, it seems SE may actually have made PvP even interesting to me, (a PvP hater)! :D

But I guess, as they say, we'll find out soon enough. :)

DUELING DUELING DUELING MMMMMMMMMM DUELING~!

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Discussing The Feast (Rated) times
While this is still being debated internally, we’re discussing if we should restrict the hours in which The Feast can be played. For example, if such a system was implemented, we’d consider having The Feast open during each region’s peak hours.

The intent behind this idea would be to try and get more players involved in PvP content by having a specified time to queue where players could potentially get quicker matches
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I would only do this for light party, not solo queue.

Also, rather than restrict the Feast itself, why not designate those times to when rating would be counted? People can continue to play at whatever hours they choose and once that primetime arrives, people should expect the rated matches to begin.

Everything else I am super excite about. Curious what BLM changes are coming.

lock feast behind certain times please less wintrading more activity xd

oh god this is square enix BIG plan for pvp?? limiting times when i can play feast...what a terrible idea.

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

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This is definitely a tricky issue. In one way, I do agree with the concept. I like the idea of faster queues for sure. I also would love to get some real PvP'ers into my matches. My off-hour matches have dropped my rank like a rock recently (gold qualifiers down to flirting with the bronze line), because I've been shafted with nothing but fresh players or people with questionable commitment to winning. Having a broader pool of teammates would definitely be an improvement, because I wouldn't get stuck riding a losing streak with the same four people all night ...

That said, I know that the combination of my odd log hours and my time zone would mean that a restriction like this would result in the worst possible matches for me. I already have very limited time to play. Community organized events like Friday Night Fights and Secure Sundays/Saturdays were next to impossible for me to join because I only catch, maybe, the last hour of 'peak times.' The matches I do get into could be even worse than they are now, assuming I get into any at all.

There's also a problem with balancing PvE with PvP. We all have weekly caps, dungeon/raid/primal drops, challenges, etc, to deal with each week. Restricting PvP queue times to specific hours of the day could result in days in which NO ONE queues at all, because they have to deal with their PvE responsibilities first. This would especially be the case early in the week, after reset, or late in the week when people are scrambling to finish things that they didn't do earlier. Not to mention when new content comes out. Anyone with a static raid or primal group would run into scheduling problems ...

I dunno. Maybe it won't be as bad as I'm imagining, but I can see more going wrong with this than right.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

New map for The Feast
Playing The Feast on one map alone may get boring for some players, so we’re currently working on creating another map for the Feast.

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Oooooh.... One more question. Along with a new planned map, will we be getting a new track as well? There's nothing wrong with the old one, and it's definitely not important next to all these MUCH bigger adjustments. I'm not saying we need one or anything. I'm just curious, since orchestra scrolls are a collectible thing.

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Originally Posted by SkyKlaws

We need another Seal Rock for making gear achievement easier! Or just "Connect" Seal Rock achievement to the Fields of Glory =(

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And uniting old lv.50 Wolf's Den and The Fest achievements would be a great idea too, otherwise people will never get those Wolf titles.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Discussing The Feast (Rated) times
While this is still being debated internally, we’re discussing if we should restrict the hours in which The Feast can be played. For example, if such a system was implemented, we’d consider having The Feast open during each region’s peak hours.
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All of the changes sound awesome, and are very exciting, but this perhaps is the one that is most exciting. This is a great idea, and I hope that you guys move forward with it. Being able to play off-classes during non-rated hours to practice would be a very welcome opportunity for many active pvpers. It also has the side benefit of stress-free queue times where experienced pvpers would help those who are new to pvp, rather than rage at them and drive them away from the mode altogether.

LS chat in PvP when, the reason behind not having it is dumb if people want to wintrade they'll use external methods of communication anyway.

And also GC restrictions lifted when.

Fantastic post. Super excited to see just how much effort Square are willing to put into PVP.

Concerning the Feast opening only at specific times.. I am on the fence. Echoing over posts, this could really seperate those active PvP'ers who work at unusual times, or are even in different. countries to the server host. As long as there is a couple of open windows rather than just one, I'm sure this could be tested though.

Also regarding keeping the feast open for the rest of the day, but unrated, in my opinion is pointless. Casuals play for the prizes and regulars for the rating, and having an unrated option would prove to be just as dead as the current 8v8 unrated. On a silver lining, it would open up fields of glory to more activity during seasons.

There's too much PvE focus in Shatter because that is exactly how the devs designed it due to the ice tomeliths being big score piñatas (and how poorly they scale between 72-man and 24-man matches) and the added point-boosting of stealing bases. Both are supposed to dissuade lingering and fighting so long as there is an uninvolved 3rd team that benefits from 2 teams being preoccupied (which is why large leads/run-away games even happen, to the fault of the 2 teams caught in a fight). There's very little they can do to salvage this mode outside of letting kills/deaths give ridiculous point gains/losses or do something about how much points ice tomeliths give.

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Originally Posted by Nyhmzy

LS chat in PvP when, the reason behind not having it is dumb if people want to wintrade they'll use external methods of communication anyway.

And also GC restrictions lifted when.

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LS chat for what`? You may want to focus on pvp if you queue for it not dying somewhere cause of "talking to ls". In feast ls chat would be even more useless than in frontlines too so really no reason to make that possible.

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Originally Posted by Eorzean_username

I think this is a good idea, based on your stated motivations, and I support the idea of any incentive to compress the PvP playerbase into a more focused, competitive, and active time frame.

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What would be great is if you create a custom match, that you could "advertise" it on your server/across world which would be cool. :)

I'd add that on the topic of times for "The Feast" perhaps it would be great to offer big bonus rewards for prime time, this would be even cool to see where there would be bonus times / days for different pvp content. For example - Tuesday is Frontlines bonus, Wednesday is Feast (I don't know, but something that might help drive people into the content around the same time/day) :)

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Originally Posted by Rhaja

I'm kinda on the fence with the restricted time idea.

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With custom games still being allowed, and 8v8 options open, that might help.

I hope that if I host a custom game, that I can bring my friends in, as well as open it up for others to join in if they wish. Options like (Friends only - must be on friends list), LinkShell/Free Company, Open would be cool. I think they said that you'd have two full parties that would set the match up. But what would be even better would be to setup some type of lobby and allow players to switch teams/parties, etc and queue up matches back to back to back. So you'd leave the match and back into the lobby. Wouldn't need to take you out of the game mind you to be in the lobby, you'd just join it, and the UI would show you in a pvp lobby. :)

@Rewards - Can we have it so we can store this stuff in the Armoire sooner, rather than later? Sounds like we're basically getting the same rewards for season 2, they'll just be slightly altered... No real complaints there, other than potential inventory woes, of course...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

@Rewards - Can we have it so we can store this stuff in the Armoire sooner, rather than later? Sounds like we're basically getting the same rewards for season 2, they'll just be slightly altered... No real complaints there, other than potential inventory woes, of course...

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Gotta get u to buy that third retainer ok???

Peak times only for Feast? You do that, and you effectively kill it for anyone with an evening, or night shift job. Can't PvP while at work, or asleep, after all.

It's good to have limited time slot for Feast. Returns Frontlines to the glory!

i agree with everything but the restricted times on rated feast. as many people including I actually raid during peak times and some may even work those times, if this was implemented you would effectively alienate those people from participating in the season. giving those who obviously can play during peak hours an advantage.

I welcome the addition of 1v1 dueling while waiting for queues to pop, but could you possibly add a "Role Waiting List" for PVP? Players that queue after others often get in before people that queued before them. Often times it feels like the queue lottery. This would be especially helpful when you have been sitting in a frontlines queue for 30+ minutes with no hope. Even if 1v1 might keep us busy it still really sucks to have no idea when your frontlines queue is going to pop.

Regarding feast: I don't think it's a good idea to have rated times. Lots of people like to do their rated matches at different times of the day, and if you could only rank up say during prime time hours for frontlines I feel like this would end up hurting frontlines participation and queue times.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Greetings, adventurers!

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Hello, just giving my feedback:

1- The autoattack changes will affect PvE, as well as facetarget, I hope you'll make it so we are not FORCED to use camera locking as melee. (As it is right now, I use myself a macro of facetarget in PvE with my monk, because the 33% of the damage of this job depends on the auto-attacks. If I don't use that macro, I don't land autoattacks enough. Thus being forced to use one of the WORST things of this game, the "Camera Lock" that doesn't allow you to move freely, gives you tunnel vision, AND... Doesn't let you get further inside the hitbox nor tresspass it. It's a terrible feature. I don't mind removing these macros if we will be ensured to, for example, have the autoattacks landing despite looking to another side or something (As long as we are close enough to the enemy)

2- About the peak hours limited PvP, bad idea, not everyone can play at certain hours... I find myself playing mostly on the nights due to work issues, from 22:00 to even 2:00 ST....

3- In Europe there's no worthy BLMs so far, so this will even decrease the will of others playing it, I'm not against the changes even if I'm BLM myself. But please, please. Do not increase damage of some skills in exchange for reducing the CC timers. Reduce strategical skills and power up the dmg is to reduce the skill ceiling. I don't play WAR because it's skill ceiling is already small in comparison with other tanks, even if it's the "to go" tank..... So consider not doing the same with BLM. Don't transform it into another "easy-ranged.jpg" to use. If the CDs are reduced but the rest stills the same, I'll still love this job because it'll mean it'll be even more harder to use.... You get focused, you can't cc anyone, you won't be able to facetarget, you can't cast. RIP.

With the added duelling feature and the expanded wolves' den pier, would it not be a good time to introduce Data-Center-wide zones starting with wolves' den pier (or just limit it to wolves' den only), getting to duel with people outside of your own server too would be 10/10, and having a pvp "capital" (wolves den) instead of the semi desolate place it usually is, is pretty neat too. I don't know how much work it's gonna be but i know WoW has this feature almost everywhere and it works quite well, and i suspect, even with the duelling feature being added, it will be a fairly empty place most of the time still

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Originally Posted by Wetel

With the added duelling feature and the expanded wolves' den pier, would it not be a good time to introduce Data-Center-wide zones starting with wolves' den pier (or just limit it to wolves' den only), getting to duel with people outside of your own server too would be 10/10, and having a pvp "capital" (wolves den) instead of the semi desolate place it usually is, is pretty neat too. I don't know how much work it's gonna be but i know WoW has this feature almost everywhere and it works quite well, and i suspect, even with the duelling feature being added, it will be a fairly empty place most of the time still

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If we're going to get such an area, I think they'd be better off adapting Frontlines into an open world event... If they could make it so Borderland Ruins, Seal Rock, and Fields of Glory are three zones shared across data centers, then they can potentially work as open world areas... Depending how it's done, it would quite nicely fix all the issues with Frontlines; Queue times would be gone, you'd just walk into the zone if you want to participate. The Grand Company restriction no longer creates a major issue, instead it could actually enhance the content if they implement a XI Conquest style tally. We'd also no longer be stuck with a situation where Feast and Frontlines compete for players, assuming one can queue for Feast while in the Frontline zones... That's perhaps not possible though, I'd expect any such zone to effectively work as an instance... If SE were capable of such implementations, Diadem wouldn't be an instance... Still, I've always figured Frontlines should be open world... Having it be "Here's your team, get this many points first" really limited its potential IMO, we've got these huge maps and we're stuck chasing static objectives because we're in a race to win points... It's very theme park-y, when I'd much rather have something more organic... I want to walk in and randomly encounter people from a rival Grand Company... The theme park design mentality really doesn't fit for PvP IMO, it's why Secure/Slaughter/Seize are completely dead - they're old rides... Make them sandboxes and I could walk into the Borderland Ruins, do shitty PvE objectives to score my Grand Company points and gain the attention of rival Grand Companies who then come in to stop me farming those points... Much more interesting than a 20m instance IMO...

I'm sure plenty of people prefer the current rigid 20m matches though, and it would take SE a lot of effort to revamp Frontlines like that anyway... Oddly, despite the developers claim to fame being revamping the broken mess that was 1.0, they're very reluctant to go back and fix their own mistakes (Hi, Diadem!)... They'd need to rework the objectives themselves, as well as the Achievements, work on a sort of rating system for Grand Companies, perhaps with associated rewards, even a XI Campaign style announcement system (so if I'm in Seal Rock and I score an objective, everyone in Frontlines gets a message that my Grand Company just scored points in Seal Rock, meaning they'd likely move to stop me giving my Grand Company said points), it's a lot of work that I have no confidence SE would put in... There are easier ways to revive Secure/Slaughter/Seize, and I'm doubtful they'll even ever do that much... This is a theme park MMO through and through...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

If we're going to get such an area, I think they'd be better off adapting Frontlines into an open world event... If they could make it so Borderland Ruins, Seal Rock, and Fields of Glory are three zones shared across data centers, then they can potentially work as open world areas... Depending how it's done, it would quite nicely fix all the issues with Frontlines; Queue times would be gone, you'd just walk into the zone if you want to participate.

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I'd like if they'd give this a try - it's not like the old frontlines maps can get more dead, right? It also fits into FFXIV's 'PvP can't touch any non-PvP areas of the game' design.

Seems a good compromise - there are no pvp servers, but a quick queue into a frontlines map ( kind of like diadem ) would be great for people that don't want to wait for the usual structured PvP match or the routine Feast cage match. Objectives / teams could be added, or it could just be an unranked melee of sorts.

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Originally Posted by Dan_Strife

I welcome the addition of 1v1 dueling while waiting for queues to pop, but could you possibly add a "Role Waiting List" for PVP? Players that queue after others often get in before people that queued before them.

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The problem with this is that then players could fix matches. "What # are you on waiting list?" "Oh, you're #3 tank and I'm #2 melee? Okay, let me drop out for a couple of minutes until you get bumped up".

Best case people use this to make sure they get into the same games together, and use it as a way to create a seudo pre-made solo queue match.

Worst case people use it to give free wins to others by not trying if they get on the opposing team.

Neither is good.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

If they could make it so Borderland Ruins, Seal Rock, and Fields of Glory are three zones shared across data centers, then they can potentially work as open world areas... Depending how it's done, it would quite nicely fix all the issues with Frontlines; Queue times would be gone, you'd just walk into the zone if you want to participate. The Grand Company restriction no longer creates a major issue

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Firstly, I think this is a cool idea. I would absolutely love to be running around in non-instanced PvP zone with objectives (likely FATE styled pop ups) while I wait for a real PvP queue to pop. Duels is definitely a good start, but this would be a very cool next step.

That said, I don't think Grand Company Restrictions would cease to be an issue. The issue would simply change. Instead of GC restrictions causing long queue times, they would be causing an uneven playing field. An open world setting like this would make the discrepancy between the populations of each GC glaringly apparent. Maelstrom would dominate the open world zone 24/7, due to the fact that they have 2-3x the numbers of both Flames and Adders. Anytime an Adder or Flame jumped into an open zone, they would be at the mercy of Maelstrom gank squads. I'd like to think that people would flip flop around to even things out, but we both know that would never happen. The only thing that forces people to swap GC's now is queue times. Otherwise, people chase wins. Unless SE offered some form of incentive, then this kind of thing would be doomed from the start simply because GC's exist in the first place.

I think need to dial back expectations SE has issues when it comes to implementation of ideas in this game. A cross world open pvp zone sounds like something you should ask for in 2020.

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Originally Posted by Februs

Firstly, I think this is a cool idea. I would absolutely love to be running around in non-instanced PvP zone with objectives (likely FATE styled pop ups) while I wait for a real PvP queue to pop. Duels is definitely a good start, but this would be a very cool next step.

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Well, I find it unlikely that they can truly make it open world anyway... The only possible way to create enough of a population to maintain such a thing is by making it cross-data center, and that's almost certainly going to mean some degree of instanced content... It's still IMO better than Frontlines as it (certainly Secure/Slaughter/Seize, at least), though it does create some other issues... I think a Diadem style zone could work, but then we lose certain freedoms like being able to queue for other content while participating (which is arguably a good thing, would kinda suck to rely on a healer there only for them to vanish into an instance...), or even just forming/adjusting parties... That's a major issue I had with Diadem, and heck, it's already an issue with Frontlines... I've had plenty of instances where I get dropped in a party with no healer, while the alliance has plenty to spare, yet we can't swap people around... There'd likely also be a timer in place, given Diadem not only has that, but they've greatly reduced it, much to my annoyance, despite participation in Diadem rivaling that of Seize... An instances player limit could likely clean up any Grand Company population problems, but that pretty much neuters the event IMO...

If they can make a truly open world cross-data center zone, then... Well, I'm not sure I mind if one group dominates... It's PvP and if they're more organized, they're more organized... Might as well complain about people who won season 1 in Feast are taking up places in the top 100 in season 2... Where it does become an issue is with enjoyment of the event, being steamrolled over and over is likely to turn people away fast, but that could effectively manage itself... Is an entire alliance of Maelstrom going to keep turning up when they've chased off everyone else and Frontlines is now just essentially a PvE playground for them? That's also partly why I think it's more sensible to adapt Frontlines into this, rather than making it its own thing; Frontlines has three maps to split players across, it's much harder for the dominant Grand Company to hold three fronts, rather than one. There are, of course, also systems that can just be put in place to mitigate dominance... Take Borderland Ruins, I would expect a set of faction based NPCs to be placed at the Grand Companies main outpost to flesh out activity and help prevent spawn camping. The dominant Grand Company could, since they're dominating, justifiably have a weaker force of NPCs stationed at their outpost, making them a weaker target, while the losing Companies gain additional support from Grand Company. That could take a few other forms, but one thing I've always figured would be nice is if we had a sort of PvP Hunt Marks... Could twist the Battle High system into that, where each Grand Company has select players as targets because of how well they're preforming, providing additional intel (same as Battle High currently) and successfully downing them earns your Grand Company additional rating... This would put the dominant Grand Company at a natural disadvantage.

Ultimately, if it's even possible, I think they should at least give it a go... Not like Borderland Ruins is seeing any activity anyway, I'd rather have a dead piece of content that I can go in and get destroyed by a single Grand Company in (although lord knows what they're doing there in force if they've killed it a second time), than be stuck with the current sorry state of Frontlines... Granted, there are much easier ways to revive the dead maps, I just don't think I'm inclined to care about Frontlines in its current form anymore... I guess if they slapped a rating system on the current form I might give it a second look, but the points race to win a match just doesn't entertain anymore... If I want a match, I'd queue Feast for quick and snappy matches, and hope they adjust Wolves Den to provide more variety... Frontlines is meant to be large scale, faction based PvP, but as an instanced activity it's anything but... It's a large map with potentially large numbers of players, but it's ultimately the same scale as any other instance (except it it grates on and on... again, I prefer Feast for this style of gameplay because its quick and snappy), and the factions are completely redundant in this game, as I've bemoaned countless times before... I want to like the Grand Companies in this game, and to justify that stupid restriction, but they're just lacking in every possible way... I'd rather get frustrated at Twin Adder constantly losing, than just not care about Grand Companies at all... 3.4 is meant to have some PvE Grand Company additions though, so maybe they'll at least fix them on the PvE side of things and I'll care less about the PvP representation, which might as well be the sole representation of Grand Companies at this point...

hello player with 3k+ frontline matches.

give us a proper working frontline roulette (i.e. you cannot select frontline maps individually), lvl 60 secure/slaughter and no GCs.

this is what frontline needs.

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Originally Posted by xxczx

give us a proper working frontline roulette (i.e. you cannot select frontline maps individually), lvl 60 secure/slaughter and no GCs.

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I'd go a step further, and say give us Lv60 Secure/Slaughter, and make it so the three maps can play any of the four game modes... So we can have Borderland Ruins (Shatter) (Icebound Tomelith changes to Crystalbound?), or Fields of Glory (Secure)...

Not what I'd want personally, based on my previous suggestion, but definitely something I could actually expect SE to do... Well, half-expect... Would make for much more variety (2 possible options jumps to 12) and any new additions add to that, rather than detracting from it...