Could Provoke be a little bit Fell Cleave proof?

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Originally Posted by Lilyth

Even though eye doesnt drop, I personally dont like to use BB in a zerk window. Going Eye -> Eye lets you place Fracture right after the first Eye, where IR is still up and you also have 3 stacks. But either way, the difference is minimal.

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Yes that's the benefit of doing double eye in zerk. If you use potion right after the last eye before zerk, your fracture will get the effect too. I don't have math to support which is better, but it's trading fracture boosted by IR + 3 abandon + potion vs 20 potency from block combo boosted by potion and IR with fracture only boosted by 5 abandon.

One thing I considered was that when you have high enough sks (I don't know how much) you can still do zerk > block combo > frac > eye combo without dropping eye debuff. Maybe I'll try to experiment a bit with higher sks gears later. This is basically looking for min sks to fit in 6 gcds between every eye combo without dropping eye.

Reasons I always Steel Cyclone once or twice after I Provoke in Nidhogg EX.

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Originally Posted by seekified

Reasons I always Steel Cyclone once or twice after I Provoke in Nidhogg EX.

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Not sure if you're trolling but if you're not then that's really bad.

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

One thing I considered was that when you have high enough sks (I don't know how much) you can still do zerk > block combo > frac > eye combo without dropping eye debuff. Maybe I'll try to experiment a bit with higher sks gears later. This is basically looking for min sks to fit in 6 gcds between every eye combo without dropping eye.

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iirc it's too much to warrant the investment since you'd only be gaining 20 potency every ~90s. If you could naturally get that much SkS without sacrificing too much Crit/STR then it'd be fine.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

iirc it's too much to warrant the investment since you'd only be gaining 20 potency every ~90s. If you could naturally get that much SkS without sacrificing too much Crit/STR then it'd be fine.

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Hmm yeah I guess you do need a lot of sks for that. But you can do eye-block-block-repeat instead of eye-block if you reach that sks, although that rotation will be problematic on its own (no fell cleave or fracture allowed without skipping one block combo).

plenty of ways to adapt around this "problem" dunno why everything has to be easy peasy.

Always follow up provoke with a Aggro generation combo.

That is all.


But if that isn't enough save a OGCD or 2 as well or if you really want to be, have the WAR change to Deliverance then let him hit with is 2xFC.

What i seriously hate already - switch to Shield Oath is practically a must if PLD want to get and secure aggro from a competent high-DPS WAR. Losing 2 GCDs in process and some damage. But WARs don't have this problem and can just stay in Deliverance, hitting their BB combo + FC.

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Originally Posted by MahoSenshi

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Pretty sure a SwO PLD can voke a Deliverance WAR and keep aggro as long as he's at least using a RoH combo after the Provoke and the WAR isn't mindlessly using BB knowing that a tank swap is happening (and gaining 20 potency doesn't outweight the PLD being forced into going in ShO just to keep aggro over him). Shield Swipe procs, Circle of Scorn and Savage Blade being part of the main DPS combo (RA) helps maintaining a decent threat generation while in SwO, making so that you'll only need to RoH once here and there even if the WAR gets back to using BBs for DPS. Add to that the periods where you'll need to be in ShO to survive damage which WILL make you generate more aggro, and your overall aggro should be fine. If you have a NIN in your party, it's even easier since they can give you their aggro transfer, allowing you to do even less RoH.

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

At higher level, there are times when tank swap is absolutely necessary to clear a dungeon. But this only applies to lv 50 and 60 contents with 8 or 24 ppl (and hence multiple tanks).

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To clarify, I'm well aware of the need for tank-swapping post level 50 content. My post was from the perspective of a lowbie tank (who uses Provoke), not a 50+ DPS who has other people do it for them -- but thanks anyways.

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Originally Posted by MahoSenshi

What i seriously hate already - switch to Shield Oath is practically a must if PLD want to get and secure aggro from a competent high-DPS WAR. Losing 2 GCDs in process and some damage. But WARs don't have this problem and can just stay in Deliverance, hitting their BB combo + FC.

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You can tank swap in Sword Oath just like both the other tanks. The OT just has to stop spamming their hate combo like a retard.

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Originally Posted by seekified

Reasons I always Steel Cyclone once or twice after I Provoke in Nidhogg EX.

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That extent of enmity lead is probably only necessary for not-as-well-geared-as-they-think "must solo-tankkk!" tanks in Midas normal who don't realize they will die and will take a lot of healer mana and dps with them in doing so, or are outright not paying attention to swap timings.

Had an all-Grit DRK co-tank in a A6N who would Power Slash whenever she didn't have enough mana for DA-SE, or didn't think she needed the SE self-heal. Oddly enough, this timed out to her almost only using it when she should have been swapping out, or as OT. By the last boss, a healer and I had finally fixed her gameplay via mid-GCD advice and sound effect commands... But I can't think of any other time I've really needed Steel Cyclone just for the voke.