Will they ever stop with constant Vertical Progression?

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Originally Posted by bass9020

If I put more time into a game I would like more out of it, just because someone else can't thats not my problem. But sadly games are catering to these people and we can't really do anything about it.

If you are only able to play 5 hours a week then maybe an MMO isn't the right choice to spend your time, plenty of single player RPGS out there that no longer require any effort to play like they used too. But if you are stubborn and want to keep playing an MMO for 5 hours a week then you shouldn't really be complaining if you are behind or don't have all the special loots everyone else has.

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Here's the funny thing about what you said...

Takes 30 minutes (some are faster, sure) to run the Expert Roulette... provided you are a tank, add queue length as necessary. Nets you what... 75 currency towards cap? x6 = 450 = cap

3 hours.

Toss in a few runs of the new 24-man content (and removing 1 of the expert roulettes due to extra currency)... we'll say 1 hour each, though currently that may be generous. 3 to get your drop... 3 hours - 30 minutes.

5.5 hours.

Give someone a hour's worth of beastman tribals for the day....

12.5 hours.

Toss in your daily hunts (30 mins) and weekly hunt (30 mins) yields 4 hours per week goofing off on that, be it for seals or exp for 50-60 jobs... whatever.

16.5 hours.

God forbid you toss in crafting, but really... the above is all you really need to commit to in a solid week... about 2-3 hours a day.

I think that is a "healthy" number. You may have more disposable time and think 5-8 hours a day is "healthy", but I think that's where age and profession changes our views.

I do believe, because I have no statistical proof, that more people will side with 2-3 hours a day to a game being considered "healthy" than those who would say 5-8.

That duration (currency to upgrade, etc.), chopped up, is REALLY close to 14 weeks of progression to gear cap... which... is.... about 3 months. Which is also about when the next update is released?

Now, just think if Square decided that's what they think is fair to ask of their players, and sets the pace according to 2-3 hours a day. Now you play 12 hours a day. You'll be out of relevant "content" to progress through (due to extra drops from Savage, farming primal seals (which aren't capped...), hunts, etc.) far sooner. And in the position a lot of players complain about now.

And Square could say: "okay, well, if you all want to play 5-8 hours a day, let's up the time:reward ratio to account for it so the devs have time to keep up..." and now you lose all of the players who think 2-3 hours is "healthy" because... they have no chance of keeping up. And now the "vets" in their blinging gear complain about carrying the filthy casuals through OLD content they need to fill their ranks with because X or Y team member quit (burnout from longer grinds?! absurd!).

What I am trying to say is...

If you want to punish people for playing a game that doesn't define their real life...

Be prepared to play alone. And be prepared to slide backwards faster than you're moving forward due to higher attrition rate due to burnout.

Want me to cite an example?

Go start a new toon on FFXI today, and tell me how you enjoy that fresh 99 hump trying to get into ilvl 135 content.

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Originally Posted by Ayrie

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Or someone with more time, could, I don't know... gear up more than one job?

Something that isn't really possible with the current system. Because by the time they can start gearing up their second job, oops! Gear's outdated.

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Originally Posted by Moomba33

I don't see the appeal of horizontal progression to be honest. I don't want to have to farm multiple sets of equipment for every job that I play.

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And why would you need the best sets for every job you play?

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Or someone with more time, could, I don't know... gear up more than one job?

Something that isn't really possible with the current system. Because by the time they can start gearing up their second job, oops! Gear's outdated.

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Glad you brought that up, too, because by the time you gear up whatever you deem your main (that first longer progression), they release a patch to ease that... not one that adds onto it, so you essentially get 3 months to gear up a lot of your other classes to the "entry" or "comfort" level of the next round of content. We happen to be in that part of the cycle right now.

It is basically 3 months to get your "played jobs" up to about 220 pretty easily, and your main job into the 230-240 range. You may be able to get a secondary job into that range now, too, if your primary was already there previous to this patch.

And on the horizontal progression argument...

Yeah, the "entry" point for content is now:

iLvl whatever times how many ever sets evolve from situational need (because it won't be optional, don't lie to everyone and pretend it will be). I'll go back to the 2-second blunt arrow for turn 2 argument I saw earlier...

Sure it would be nice to have that "option"... but in the end... eliminating Rot + the AoE stun would be MANDATORY. Just like 80% fast cast, 50% cure potency, -75% physical damage taken, -whatever% magic damage taken, +MP regen per tick gear... all those different "optional" pieces of gear with unique and interesting perks were neither unique, nor interesting, when you had to farm 4 full sets to be able to participate in "real" content with your friends.

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Originally Posted by RobbieH

And why would you need the best sets for every job you play?

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A poor choice of words I suppose.
I won't "have" to farm multiple sets for every job that I play. I just don't see farming multiple sets for one job as an enjoyable activity that would add anything to the game for me, and would prefer that developer resources were spent elsewhere.