Early Pulling - Is it wrong?

But hunts are supposed to be hunted by the person or group that found it . They have the right to claim it. Imagine people hunting foxes or other animals be it for sport or for food. They only call for their group.

I think, the puller should be of the group that discovered the hunt. With that being met, how long they choose accommodate others is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by dekal

But hunts are supposed to be hunted by the person... (snip)

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Let's be real here. The overwhelming majority of people that "snipe" hunts don't do it for sport or for a challenge. They do it to deliberately grief everybody else either by "denying" them the kill or to throw off the hunt trackers so that people waste their time. If they were doing it for sport, then they would at least give a shout out that a particular mark has been killed and update the hunt tracker accordingly. To make a comparison, it'd be like hunters having to abide by certain regulations and a game warden examining their quarry to confirm that those rules have been followed.

The same can be said for early pulling. Sure, there's a threshold for where waiting any longer becomes ridiculous, but pulling within 1 minute of a mark being called out is done out of malice.

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Originally Posted by Rahzel

The same can be said for early pulling. Sure, there's a threshold for where waiting any longer becomes ridiculous, but pulling within 1 minute of a mark being called out is done out of malice.

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how do you know who called out said hunt found that hunt, for example ppl cry and piss n moan all the time on our server saying it was "just called out" when in fact we been standing infront of it for over 10 minutes. sorry but no sorry, early bird gets the worm.

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Originally Posted by birdy_reene

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Did the people standing there bother to call it out? Obviously, there are going to be some discrepancies, and there's always going to be someone who didn't make it, because the longer you wait the more people that will hear about it as it trickles down the grapevine. That's unavoidable. However, you can generally tell when a hunt has been pulled early by how many people are there.

I don't know about Zalera, but on Balmung during NA prime time, a hunt mark will be instantly repeated over every major hunt LS as soon as it's called out in /shout. Ironically, that also tends to be when all the really early pulling starts taking place.

I'm not condoning giving people grief over doing it either. Just pointing out the ethics, because people like to make up pretty little excuses for their behavior. Just be honest about it.

For the people who claim there's no rule against "early" pulling and therefor there's nothing wrong with it; while you're not wrong, please explain to me the benefit of pulling immediately even when you know full well that there are other people on the way? No one is saying you have to wait forever, because there's always that one jackass who shows up 20 minutes later and complains, but there's no reason why you can't or shouldn't wait at least 5 minutes from the initial call to let more people arrive. If SE wanted hunts to be as cut-throat-competitive as some of you want to think you wouldn't be able to earn any kill credit, much less full credit, if you weren't part of the claiming team. Since that's clearly not the case I've never understood why you wouldn't want as many people benefiting from the kill as possible.

I've never once complained about "early" pulls because it's not that big of a deal to me since they all respawn relatively quickly (besides maybe S ranks which can take days to respawn), but at the same time I recognize it as needlessly selfish behavior.

On my server there are several players that are well known for pulling immediately upon arrival and take pleasure in the fact that they can do so without any repercussions and moreover they have the ability to report other players for yelling at them for it. The worst part is that they get away with it, protected by the system.
Once is annoying, twice is rude, constant is indirect bullying. It's like that guy that always parks in your spot because he knows no one but you gives a crap. That guy wants you to key his truck because he knows who will get in trouble when you do, and it won't be him. Soon enough you give up on that parking spot because you know you can't win and the only thing left is to hope you get there before he does once or twice a week.
How can we fix this? Make repeated early pulling a punishable offense when reported by many players if it's not already.

The solution to it is simple, put a timer on the area next to the target, you click on it to start the clock hunt, until the timers gets to zero anyone cant attack it. Also make it so people on the zone can see the timer so they can come in even if it isnt shout by the party who discover it.

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Originally Posted by ardrej

The solution to it is simple, put a timer on the area next to the target, you click on it to start the clock hunt, until the timers gets to zero anyone cant attack it. Also make it so people on the zone can see the timer so they can come in even if it isnt shout by the party who discover it.

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Sounds too easy to abuse. Those same early pull trolls would click it and leave just for giggles and no one would get any points and that zone clock would have the same effect as a LS call out: some would see it but most wouldn't. And after the timer reached zero I presume it would reset if a group didn't soon pull and another troll would click it resulting in more waiting and more giggles.

It's a good idea, but it needs more restrictions for it to function. I think I'd prefer the current method, but with better ways to enforce what should be common courtesy.

here in tonberry we waited for 3-5 minutes (non peak time and weekdays), hunts during peak time and weekends are pretty chaotic esp rank S, and usually i am the one who finds the hunt but i don't pull, the prty member of mine usually pulls the hunt

I've stopped caring at this point. On a personal level if I find a hunt I'll do my best to facilitate as many people as possible since we're all going after the same thing. It's just naive to expect everybody else on any given server to adhere to a similar mindset, nor is it really feasible on the bigger servers during prime time hours. They're not obligated to stick to any code and they're certainly not breaking any rules. Others simply don't care or lack and/or withhold the compassion to care about those outside of their own small groups. As nice as it would be, they're not going to change.

I really think something most be done.

I'm not sure how is in your servers, but on Sargatanas the "early pulling" has become a thing and its compleatly abussed.

There is an FC that one of the reasons for what was made, was for early pulling. Those ppl are one of the firsts ones to arrive and the firsts one to arrive. They dont call that the hunt was being found or that was being killed. So yes they kill hunts on silence.

A lot of of ppl dont make on time, and to be worse mock to ppl that couldnt make it.
Yes sure, ppl tried to talk to them but is no use, and blacklist doesnt work, they just keep doing it.

This guys have fun on early pulling and watching how orther ppl couldnt make it, and they laught of it. They have being doing this since the release of HW.


It is really fair?

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

It is really fair?

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Yes, first come, first served.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

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On Cerberus, the solution has ended to be radical : exclusion from hunt ls and if several people from the same FC early pull or ninja pull, the full fc is banned from hunt ls. Many people calm down.

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Originally Posted by Eldevern

On Cerberus, the solution has end to be radical : exclusion from hunt ls and if several people from the same FC early pull or ninja pull, the full fc is banned from hunt ls. Many people calm down.

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Sounds like a good solution to me considering I don't even use a hunt LS.

This comes down to an entitlement issue. I'm not sure on what level of interest in hunts everyone is on, but I'm not currently part of any hunt LS and I only have a mild interest in hunts.

For someone like me to whine about early pulling is really unreasonable, and I don't. As such, I instead lower my expectations: if an S is called out, I assume it's already been pulled and will be dead when I arrive. If an A is called out, I assume I have anywhere from a minute to 10 seconds to fly over before it's pulled. If it's a B rank, I giggle to myself if someone asks for an invite or groan if someone makes a lame pun about it (Scarecrow and Naul, anyone?).

If I was more engaged in hunts, I might not so much raise my expectations but raise my level of preparedness. If a timer is about to be up for a hunt, I'd zone in to the area and start looking. If it's an S rank, I'd try to help spawn it.

The way I see it, you get out of hunts what you put into it, and should only expect as much when it comes to arrival times.

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

Yes, first come, first served.

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No, its not.

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Originally Posted by Eldevern

On Cerberus, the solution has ended to be radical : exclusion from hunt ls and if several people from the same FC early pull or ninja pull, the full fc is banned from hunt ls. Many people calm down.

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Problem with this is many of these trolls still have dedicated friends who are willing to overlook or assist these trollish actions and it only takes one friend in a hunt LS to alert them.

I simply blacklist early pullers so they can never join my hunt groups. Also i use a very simple macro
/shout S Rank <t> Pulled by <tt>
As soon at it shows as aggroed i hit that. Let the hunters sort out how they feel about the pull

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

No, its not.

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IIRC, SE has stated that was intent of hunts.

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

IIRC, SE has stated that was intent of hunts.

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SE made it so S ranks and most 50+ A ranks require a large group to kill. There is benefit in waiting and no benefit in rushing. First come first serve... provided they have backup... It's clearly meant to be a group effort and early pullers clearly spoil that with self centered actions. The intent of high rank hunts is max participation for mass rewards. Something even undergeared and inexperienced players can be a part of.... provided they make it in time.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

SE made it so S ranks and most 50+ A ranks require a large group to kill. There is benefit in waiting and no benefit in rushing. First come first serve, provided they have backup... It's clearly meant to be a group effort and early pullers clearly spoil that with self centered actions. The intent of high rank hunts is max participation for mass rewards.

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The A ranks were meant for a single party. I wouldn't call that a large group.

Clearly you've never tried Merka(Merska? W/e) with only only 8 players. Or that owl critter.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Clearly you've never tried Merka(Merska? W/e) with only only 8 players.

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I have. Did all my hunts with 2-8 people before this patch.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Clearly you've never tried Merka(Merska? W/e) with only only 8 players. Or that owl critter.

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Mirka, and you right. NO way you can do mirka withouth someone that can use silence.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

I have. Did all my hunts with 2-8 people before this patch.

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Then you don't have to worry about early pulls in any case.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

Mirka, and you right. NO way you can do mirka withouth someone that can use silence.

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Did it with only one silence, which meant that every other one of his freezes went through. Still won.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Then you don't have to worry about early pulls in any case.

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I... don't? I already stated I don't think there's such a thing as early pulling.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

The A ranks were meant for a single party. I wouldn't call that a large group.

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What was intended and what the community actually does have always been two different things, for better or worse. And regardless, there's still zero reason not to wait for as many people as possible since there's no benefit to pulling "early". It also depends on when we're talking about because when hunts were first introduced (and even during the early days of HW) you would be hard-pressed to kill some of the A ranks with just a single group. It wasn't until our gear started to outstrip the set strength of the mobs that it started to become more and more of a single group affair, but it most certainly didn't start that way.

No matter how many people you wait for, you're always going to be an early puller to SOMEONE. No more playing nice.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

It wasn't until our gear started to outstrip the set strength of the mobs that it started to become more and more of a single group affair, but it most certainly didn't start that way.

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Have been doing hunts since they were first introduced. Yes, it did start out that way.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

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Okay, you guys are starting lose me with this type of reasoning. This feature was designed for one to three parties. Once you pass 24 people hitting the things they die so quickly that there isn't much point in even trying if you weren't in the first two groups to start hitting it. This is a design flaw to be sure, but asking the entire community not to do something so that a few people can get token rewards for very little effort is silly. So I will reiterate. Unless a person is pulling the hunt enemy for the explicit intent to prevent other players from getting credit, or harassing others after it is down, then there isn't anything to be done unless the developers fix the broken system. You are literally arguing ethics on something that has been designed not to favor it.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Problem with this is many of these trolls still have dedicated friends who are willing to overlook or assist these trollish actions and it only takes one friend in a hunt LS to alert them.

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I can't say you're wrong. It has been mainly done to calm down trolls and most of time (except just after a release) it is rather sufficient.

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Originally Posted by Kerii

Okay, you guys are starting lose me with this type of reasoning. This feature was designed for one to three parties. Once you pass 24 people hitting the things they die so quickly that there isn't much point in even trying if you weren't in the first two groups to start hitting it. This is a design flaw to be sure, but asking the entire community not to do something so that a few people can get token rewards for very little effort is silly. So I will reiterate. Unless a person is pulling the hunt enemy for the explicit intent to prevent other players from getting credit, or harassing others after it is down, then there isn't anything to be done unless the developers fix the broken system. You are literally arguing ethics on something that has been designed not to favor it.

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Unfortunatly, but you get the point : there is a game design problem for hunt (that many people noticed and warned SE about).

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Originally Posted by Bixillarla

Nothing wrong with pulling it as soon as you get there. You do not have to wait for people. First come first served. No such thing as early pulling in hunts.

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Sounds a bit selfish don't you think?

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

Sounds a bit selfish don't you think?

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So is expecting others to wait for you.

Oh god...just realised something from shouts... people think this new rmt report feature is something they can use for "early pullers". God SE's gonna remove it so fast. This is why we can't have nice things.

Wow some of you folks are selfish.
Its common courtesy to wait for as many folks to arrive as possible so we can all reap the rewards.

Well there is no definition of early puller but it's fairly easy to be "considerate" for other people.
This isn't single person console game. You are playing game with other people. By simply shout if someone still on the way will be suffice. But most of well known "early puller" just pull as soon as they arrive and don't give **ck other people.

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Originally Posted by skyfox

Well there is no definition of early puller but it's fairly easy to be "considerate" for other people.
This isn't single person console game. You are playing game with other people. By simply shout if someone still on the way will be suffice. But most of well known "early puller" just pull as soon as they arrive and don't give **ck other people.

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Anyone who wants to pull can pull if they want provided they have waited for enough people to actually kill it, else they are just wasting their own time wiping on it. They were designed to be done by small groups with exception of S ranks and unlike S ranks most A ranks respawn within few hours. One thing I think SE should consider is a 'level sync' on hunts like fates just to keep them more interesting though. SE should keep the rewards for hunts quite limited too to counter the amount of zerging going on while promoting the ideology that people should be doing them because enjoy doing them and not just for the reward, if they cannot do that then increasing the quantity of hunts on maps or shortening of spawn times might suffice.

People should not have to wait for every tom, dick and harry who says 'on my way/omw' or 'invite/inv/inv pls' because you will be waiting until the end of time as more stragglers turn up on the map and see someone say "inv" in chat so they do same. The amount of people who just turn up on a map and see people saying 'inv' so join in without any idea of the context for it makes me laugh and happens a lot like for example yesterday someone asked in shout if people wanted to farm fates, some people said 'inv' in shouts and then loads of others joined in the chat spam thinking was a hunt because they just turned up or had a knee jerk reaction to seeing the words 'inv' by others. To be honest it is no more selfish to pull when enough people turn up to kill it than how selfish it is to expect everyone to wait for 'you/them'. That's what it really boils down to in this...did they pull before "I" or "my party" got there.

There is no such thing as "early pulling" since there is no globally agreed consensus on how long is long enough and anyone name shaming with shouts or sending abusive messages via tells to or about someone who pulled just because they pulled before that 'other' person got there should be reported for harassment the same way someone who keeps resetting it on purpose should be reported it for harassing people doing it. If someone wants to wait 1 minute, 5 minutes, 5 hours that's up to them but as long as enough people have turned up to actually kill it they can go ahead and pull if they want in my opinion (even if I do not make it in time myself). Someone who waited 5 minutes is not inconsiderate just because they never waited for 10 and someone who waited 25 minutes is not inconsiderate just because they never waited for 30. In the end some people will always complain regardless of how long anyone waits if they themselves do not make it in time.

On a side note, people earlier in here mentioned hunt linkshells with their 'trains' should be waited for but truth be told more often than not in my experience hunt LS tend to update hunt sites with false death times on hunt targets on purpose to mislead and prevent others from knowing the respawn time period...trying to keep the knowledge to themselves so they have a higher chance of killing it when next spawns and in my opinion that is worse than someone not waiting for 'you/them' or 'your/their' linkshell groups to arrive since at least they are not purposefully trying to mislead others.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

So is expecting others to wait for you.

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The type of person that would trip the person running next to them during a zombie apocalypse.

Fastest person wins!

reason why ive always avoided hunts unless im in the map at the time lol to much hate in the whole thing should just remove hunts altogether n implement somethin else