RIP MCH

I dedicated myself to learning and becoming as good as I could be with MCH from day 1, even when we were considered "weak" and unfavorable. BRD buffs are great, but I'm not so swayed by the bandwagon to simply switch up like that. I enjoy MCH and am rather proud to be as good as I am on this "expert job" (Yoshi P's words, not mine) that many simply gave up on, either out of lack of understanding, refusal to adapt, or the aforementioned bandwagon.

I don't think people understand the reason why groups want MCH over BRD, and why BRD are so hated this raid tier. Yes, MCH have an advantage due to Midas design, like DRK did in Gordias over PLD

But that's not why raid groups want MCH.

It's Hypercharge, and the DPS buff it gives Melee and Tanks. For 2-melee groups, the difference is huge having a MCH vs a BRD, and even in double-caster groups MCH bring more than BRD and Foe Requiem.

That's why MCH is better. They're not going to make BRD a copy of MCH, so they're increasing their damage instead, probably in preparation for the next raid.


I know several BRD who were forced to go MCH to stay in their raid groups, and are hoping these buffs are enough to let them go back to BRD. Some are doubtful, but others are going back to BRD on Tues; whether they stay will be up to their group.


And my personal opinion on Minuet? I know some don't like it, but I feel it made BRD better. I enjoy playing BRD at 60, and loathed BRD at 50. I hated it so much, I only leveled it this past month.

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Originally Posted by eliost

RIP MCH.

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Don't be an instigator.

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Originally Posted by Bards

This buff doesn't do anything to solve the issues BRD has. There is still literally no reason to bring BRD over MCH.

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Originally Posted by Machinists

This BRD buff ruins MCH. There is now literally no reason to bring MCH over BRD.

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Sounds like they did it right.

I can't help but feel they have backed themselves into a corner with BRD+MCH. They have made them both too similar whilst also making them offer something different each.

Now compare this to a SMN and BLM, they both do something different like BLM having great single target but has more cast times and SMN excelling in AoE and being more mobile. Both are interchangable but that would not be down simply to which one pulls higher numbers over the course of a fight unless one is made totally useless.

MCH and BRD seem to have to pull the same numbers because if they don't the other gets left out as they are both a battery and either way someone is going to get a damage increase.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

Echoing what people are saying here, I have both classes leveled to 60 and all these buffs do is essentially rocket BRD over in striking dummy fights. Bard's real issue is the fact that they're a DoT heavy class with Wanderer's Minuet clashing with Bloodletter procs, which is something these buffs aren't addressing (especially in relation to this current raid tier, where MCH performance is on a whole other level due to how the fights are designed).

But sure, even before the buffs, people keep bringing up that BRD and MCH damage isn't that wide at all when testing with striking dummies. But those are striking dummies. If the devs design content to be harder than glorified striking dummies and it causes one class' performance to suffer tremendously, is it a problem with the fight or is it a problem with the class design?

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I absolutely agree with you. The buffs are nice but they are a bandaid fix. The problem is and will always be Wanderer's Minuet. It does not work because it was not designed for bards. It was designed for MCHs then shoved onto bards. Much like the proverbial square peg into a round hole. No matter how hard they bang on this peg it's NOT GOING TO FIT!

If they are insisting that we keep it then they need to go back and rebuild bard from the ground up and give us the MCH toolkit that makes Gauss Barrel work so well for them. Right now we fight our cast timers constantly, where as MCH's have on demand free mobility and no clashing with any other skills.

The ignorance in the OP...what...

Machinist is borderline broken and bard isn't brought into serious raid groups at all right now because of it. The bard buffs were necessary, it was either that or delete the job from the game.

Sorry if someone has said this already, but someone saying machinist isn't played very much is just mind boggling to me.

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Originally Posted by tjw

It's called balancing.

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So continually hurting a class they deliberately hurt by throwing a skill designed for a class that came after them is balancing? AST may have RNG, but like I stated and you ignored, is that with AST playing a card they don't lose ANY potency, regardless what card they play they all help out the team. It doesn't matter if I have on demand usage of a skill it still hurts the class as a whole while only providing a small buff to magic damage. If you main BRD I shouldn't have to explain to you why Paeon and Ballad hurt BRD in 2.0 and I shouldn't have to explain why WM doesn't work with those skills in 3.0. The class isn't balanced and that's all on SE for making it a mess. If it's called balancing like you suggest, SE shouldn't have put WM on Bard and caused the issues that it did. They should have removed the damage reduction on songs and added more support based songs like the ones Jehantel uses that heal, add damage resistance, and lower the gdc.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

The ignorance in the OP...what...

Machinist is borderline broken and bard isn't brought into serious raid groups at all right now because of it. The bard buffs were necessary, it was either that or delete the job from the game.

Sorry if someone has said this already, but someone saying machinist isn't played very much is just mind boggling to me.

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Yeah I see alot of MCH around but I can't be sure if it's because I'm giving them the evil eye screaming "how dare you play my job!" at my screen when I see one :P

Tbh it's a point from when everyone was saying how MCH sucks and underplayed so it's really not reflective of the game right now imo.

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Originally Posted by Underdog2204

Yeah I see alot of MCH around but I can't be sure if it's because I'm giving them the evil eye screaming "how dare you play my job!" at my screen when I see one :P

Tbh it's a point from when everyone was saying how MCH sucks and underplayed so it's really not reflective of the game right now imo.

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I know right? They're everywhere.

As for the other topic at hand, you need only cast wide volley and rain of death, or empyreal arrow and rain of death/blood letter to see what a mess Bard is right now.

I know that's just animation glitching because of how rain of death was in 2.0...but it's still pretty unforgivable for a game of this caliber.

Reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp23Ra7kr6Q

People complained about MCH being too weak in 3.0, apparently it wasn't...
People complained about the massive AST buffs and how they'd overshadow the WHM, they didn't... and they are futher buffing AST...

With all due respect but people never get tired of complaining about stuff and then time repeatedly proving they are wrong over and over again?

I mean yeah, there are times where jobs need some help or are a bit too strong, but jumping the gun so fast saying RIP MCH when the BRD buffs are still only on the patch notes and haven't even been released XD... the only thing you accomplish with this is SE taking players less serious...

So random thought:

Wanderer's Minuet does not make sense for BRD because BRD is supposed to be mobile. What if it was changed so that instead of granting extra damage at the cost of cast time (and no auto) it made BRD songs apply a debuff effect to enemies instead of a buff to allies and vice versa?

Just throwing ideas out but Mage's Ballad would change to debuff enemies Magic Damage output, Army's Paeon would debuff their physical damage, Foe Reqium instead of debuffing enemy magic resistance increases the rate the LB gauge fills for allies.

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

So random thought:

Wanderer's Minuet does not make sense for BRD because BRD is supposed to be mobile. What if it was changed so that instead of granting extra damage at the cost of cast time (and no auto) it made BRD songs apply a debuff effect to enemies instead of a buff to allies and vice versa?

Just throwing ideas out but Mage's Ballad would change to debuff enemies Magic Damage output, Army's Paeon would debuff their physical damage, Foe Reqium instead of debuffing enemy magic resistance increases the rate the LB gauge fills for allies.

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I would approve of this. That would make WM feel like it fit the theme of the class better, than a tacked on mechanic stolen from another job because the devs figured no one would play MCH if bard didn't have their own version of the GB

MCH for Melee setups, BRD for caster setups.

They didn't really buff BRD, SE just balanced him.