Friends of mine, new to the game, becoming discouraged by STORY QUESTS

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Originally Posted by Canadane

I for one hope there isn't ever some kind of shortcut put into the story.
That's just wrong. CS skipping is one thing but to just ignore all the questing before endgame is not cool.

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They really have to. Demanding new players to play through the massive ARR storyline and a whole expansion thereafter just to get into another expansion would be borderline suicidal on the business end of things. People simply won't do it. Unlike most MMOs, FFXIV has such an enormous amount of story content it will push away players not interested if you force them to press through all of it.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

They really have to. Demanding new players to play through the massive ARR storyline and a whole expansion thereafter just to get into another expansion would be borderline suicidal on the business end of things. People simply won't do it. Unlike most MMOs, FFXIV has such an enormous amount of story content it will push away players not interested if you force them to press through all of it.

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They have already talked about making the next expansion not tied to HW. But with everything HW gave idk how they will handle the features added.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

They really have to. Demanding new players to play through the massive ARR storyline and a whole expansion thereafter just to get into another expansion would be borderline suicidal on the business end of things. People simply won't do it. Unlike most MMOs, FFXIV has such an enormous amount of story content it will push away players not interested if you force them to press through all of it.

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Originally Posted by bass9020

They have already talked about making the next expansion not tied to HW. But with everything HW gave idk how they will handle the features added.

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Yeah as bass says they had already mentioned it in a live letter or maybe it was in a Q&A (can't really recall where i had read about it)...about having new players "skip" the HW expansion, i understand why they need to do this but at the same time it seems a little sad new players won't get to experience the great story lines we have already experienced.

Final Fantasy is in its title and it's a numbered game, how do people find out about this game but have not heard of FF? Even my grandmother could tell you FF is story heavy and she doesn't know anything about video games! I don't think the story in this game is good but people upset that there's storyline here in this game?

The only thing I can feasibly see them doing is cutting out all the outright crap that the story quests make you do, especially in ARR.

If they are after HW access, do ONLY the main scenario quests and ignore EVERYTHING else. I have been playing an alt, and it took me about 2.5 days of ample playtime each day to get through it all (mind you I was skipping boring scenes as it is my 4th playthrough). It will probably take a few days to a week to get through it all if they do only the Main Scenario, depending on how long they play each day. Plus, if they are after a HW job, ignoring the other non-main scenario quests will leave them with plenty of dungeons and quests left over to get experience from.

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Originally Posted by Velox

That's what different MMOs are for then. Some MMOs are designed for raiders, some are designed for crafting, some are designed for those who enjoy sandbox elements more, some are designed with a PvP focus, and some are designed for those who enjoy narrative and story. FFXIV is a game designed for people who enjoy narrative and story. If you don't like narrative, you're playing the wrong game xD

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So does that mean we shouldn't be playing FFXIV once we're done with the storyline?

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Originally Posted by Nestama

So does that mean we shouldn't be playing FFXIV once we're done with the storyline?

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Not necessarily, but lemme tell you I do enjoy doing all the side quests and reading about the lore while waiting for more storyline to be released.

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Originally Posted by bass9020

They have already talked about making the next expansion not tied to HW. But with everything HW gave idk how they will handle the features added.

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I believe what they will do is have the next expansion take place at the same general time period of HW.

Lore wise there are bound to be periods where things are relatively stable but otherwise lack activity for the WoL, going by them having the player leave Ishgard to go handle things back in Ul'dah and the other city states.

Then in the expansion after that the two storylines will merge.

They will have it setup so that if you go through the next expansion after HW the dialog is different and the scenes different. As well as change HW so that if you go through the other storyline first the dialog and scenes will be slightly different. Both expansions will probably start with the arrival at Ishgard.

When it comes to the major players of the two storylines they will be too busy managing things in their area to be able to go help the WoL in the other area. We will probably get someone to replace Alphinaud as the companion for the non HW storyline.

It will be like those sections of the story where you need to go follow to separate but linked sections of the main story. One example being the two MSQ chains that lead you into Falcon's Nest/Camp Cloudtop at the same time early into HW. In the end both expansions will link into the expansion beyond them.

They have said that they would likely in 4.0 not require players to complete the 3.x story to start on 4.0 and instead provide characters who chose to skip forward a 'the story so far' cutscene or something. Its not like 4.0's story will start from scratch. They will still need to level up to 60 and need a certain ilvl to get buy in the new content. Chances are if they step into 4.0 in 150 gear they will get their asses handed to them. Still that leaves the option to just buy some crafted gear.

Of course we don't know if this means permanently skipping the 3.x story. It really depends on how their game system works and I seriously doubt it will remove any of the current pre 60 gating. It also won't change the fact that the MSQ is really the fastest way you can level and you will probably still need to own HW to access the zones for Job quests.

The way I understood it is there will be a story shortcut for at least HW to $NEWEXPANSION - probably a cut down, no fetch quests style thing. Still probably a ton of stuff - though I do hope they leave the option of doing it normaly as well.

And I'm guessing ARR story they might leave as is other than removing unnecessary fetch quests along the way as well. Or making them sidequests.

At least that's how I'd crunch it down currently.

The other approach is - here's a NPC talk to them - watch a 2 hour cutscene aka movie that will push you through the story.

There is a bit of a lore hook they can add that in as well... around the time you join a GC.

you know doing MSQ only and skipping cut scenes doesnt require centuries to reach 50 and entry into HW if you need some stuff to do to reach next stage then go through bestiary, fates eventually one or two leves. It'is pretty fast in fact. Once you have that out of the way, you never ever need to do any of the quests available not a single one. Fates, dungeons will get any subsequent class anywhere. This is valid as well when you are in HW, even if a little slower then in ARR.

As Vespar said, it took me 3 days to reach HW on an alt. I mean, if people register, they should know they register for the whole saga, otherwise what is the point ? As some said, maybe people are not in the right place ? Even if SE is starting a new saga, allowing de facto people to start mid-way, it wont help OP's friends as they do not seem interested in the lore but solely in the raids so whether you can start mid-way or not is a mute point in this case (my understanding of course).

I'm sorry to say this about your friends but they most probably chose the wrong game for them. If they expect FFXIV to be a game where you create a character and you just pew pew in the endgame in very few days then they chose the wrong game. Final Fantasy was always about the narrative and the storyline. It's a story driven MMORPG. You are supposed to enjoy your way up to 60 lvl without rush. Your friends simply expected something that FFXIV is not. It happens. Different people different tastes. That being said I'm personally against "story shortcuts" and cutting content in order to make your way shorter to 60. EXP points are way easier to get now. You can also leave the side quests for later.

While it has already been confirmed that 3.X will not be required to play 4.0, it would have been silly of SE to force players to finish the HW story before they could play the second expansion. Especially if the new Jobs are what interest the players the most.

"Wanna be a {Dream Job}? Finish 3.X first, which requires you to finish 2.55 first. Should take you... idunno. A month if you don't skip cutscenes?"

I think TC left already and won't be coming back but I'll add my two cents anyway.
Can't you do the Coil until they've finish 2.x storyline quests? It's raiding and it's pretty fun too and it'll give them something they apparently are craving for to do until they reach Heavensward's raiding content. Also no point in rushing about 3 years of content it's the best way to end up being burned out and by doing only the story quests at a "normal" rate they can pretty much be done with them in less than a week.

story is what makes this game amazing

If they buckle down, call work to say they're sick, and grab a diaper, (From what i heard) It only takes about 30 hours to finish 2.1 MSQ to 3.0, 40 if you include waiting for dungeons and letting the story sink in( 2.55 ending alone is 5 hours of rocking back and forth) its not the longest but it ain't the shortest.

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Originally Posted by Jermz

They are losing patience as they really want to experience some high end content. I want to as well! Just seems very very tedious to have so much rely on unlocking through story :(

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You are putting too much emphasis on character level and item levels. This game has a synch feature that allows you to experience content at the intended difficulty even if you've leveled (character or gear-wise) past it. So why not grab your friend and a few others and give Coil a chance? Or Crystal Tower if you want a smoother introduction to raiding. You can team up for level 50 primals as your friends are unlocking them, or join in for dungeons. You can level up your own alt jobs with them. You can farm ponies together. You can start the level 50 relic quests and progress together. Introduce hunts to your friends and check that they have unlocked things like maps, sightseeing log and challenge log.

You may not realize just how much maxed out players step back in to level 50 content for achievements, glamour or simply fun. There is no rush to reach end game because this game offers so much more than that.

To the OP, when I took a break and came back as much as I appreciate the story FF brings us all I wanted to do is be able to run the new dungeons and stuff they had just added but first I had to catch up to them through questing. I hated it, hours and hours of rushing and skipping through cutscenes accompanied with mindless A to B running. I can see how your friends are turned off by it, some people love the story but the reality of it is most people don't do the story until there is a patch locking content behind it.

Having just finished my grind from level 1 to the end of Heavensward (not the extra stuff patched in after 3.0, I'm still working on that) I feel like I feel like I have to agree with the OP.

A few of us in our guild were getting sick of the direction things were moving in SWTOR, so about 4 months ago we picked up FF. A couple of them were already max or near max level when we officially moved over and after the first two zones they instructed me that I should only be following the main story. So that's what I did, aside from dungeons and stuff I played exclusively the main story. The 1-50 story is great; it kept me entertained and interested. However, at hitting the post-50 quests leading up to Heavensward it was like hitting into a brick wall. The story was boring, not a lot was happening, most of the quests were filler, and you get next to no XP from it. It completely killed my excitement on the game and I actually could barely bring myself to log in. In fact, most of the time I didn't, for a little while most nights I found myself playing something else because anything else looked more fun. I had to force myself to in order to move forward and catch up with my friends.

Having those kind of filler quests makes sense when you're spacing it out over months of patches, but doing it all at once is an entertainment killer. All the people in this thread touting the story I think are completely missing the mark with their dismissal of the problem. Are you really going to hold up quests like "Hey great warrior of light, the most powerful person in the land, I forgot to mail out a letter. Can you please pick it up off my desk and put it in the mailbox for me? Thanks" as the pinnacle of story-based MMOs? Or, "hey I know we can talk over linkshell and all that but could you come to this town over here I want to talk to you. Great, now that you're here I'd like to go to other town on the other side of Eorzea to talk some more, meet you there. Well that was fun, let's go back to the original place now to finish our conversation." Whereas the ARR content and the 3.0 content kept me engaged and interested, the stuff in between had me wanting to drive nails through my eyes. It was an incredibly dull chore to get through. If they cut down those quests to just the important ones (probably 20% of the whole) then I could see that content as worth doing. But as it stands it serves as nothing more than a momentum killer for people trying to play through the game and hopefully get to max level.

I still don't understand how they will make those shortcuts in 4.0...not only did we loose quite some characters (T_T) but the WoL is involved in nearly all of the situations. What happens if a new player wants to go to the new 4.0 first but also wants to discover the 3.0 story later? Even if they are able to completely skip the 3.0 story they would still be around 50+ and will have a hard time at the new places. (I believe that using the options to skip the main quest would make all of those quests disappear) I mean I really hope that this does not mean that most monster in the new 4.0 parts will be around 55+ or something..an expansion should be something nice for the players that are already through the other parts of the game, so the monster should at least be 60+ (if we have an increase of the level cap). Can you imagine how bad it would be for older players to do the new quests but barely get anything for it or it being really easy thanks to having a much higher level. And to do the daily roulettes you need to have unlocked all the HW story dungeons anyway, so why put all that work into having to create two ways for the players to play the game (with or without a shortcut) instead of using this manpower to make other nice things for the players?

I can understand that this could get a little overwhelming with more and more expansions but instead of making it possible to skip the story they could just do other smaller things to make it easier. For example instead of having to run all over the HW areas to unlock flying, new players could be able to fly right away. They could put any new job in the ARR areas so that people can play them from the beginning and not need to reach the expansion (even though I liked it because it made sense with the lore). And if someone does not like to see the story than skip the cutscenes and ignore the side quests..We had new people in our fc that reached HW after not even one month, so its not like this takes half a year or something like that..(they had the help from our fc, all the nice new exp bonus and so on)

If I want to start a new MMO I will do my online research and after that I will decide if its okay to play or not..never would I go into a game were the main selling points would already annoy me that much. I did not like dungeons and playing with random people but I liked every other aspect of this game so I pulled myself together and tried to make the best out of the necessary dungeon runs..and now after I have my fc I do enjoy them a little because its fun to play with them..its like playing a game that is mostly about PVP and than going to the forums to complain about that.

And there is not that much to do if you are only into raiding and other high level content. Who knows maybe a lot of those people that wanted to skip all those story parts would than be bored because of nothing to do and complain about it on the forums ;)

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Originally Posted by NaesakiAshwell

If people are coming to this game to purely raid then its not really the mmo for them, what you call filler is what everyone else enjoys.

First and foremost FF XIV is a story and character driven game, raiding isn't the main focus.

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That's funny, because I have never met anyone who enjoyed collecting 15 bomb cores or whatever generic quest you can think of. I have however, met dozens of people who say they have skipped every cutscene they've ever been given in this game. Some (most of the MMO crowd, I dare say) just don't care about it and they just want to play with friends.

Also for reference, I like the story and questing too, but only when it's actual story or an actually interesting quest. Even I can see that 90% of the story in this game is pure filler. There is no other word for it, have you seen my signature?

I don't really want players to be able to quickly skip all the story, but if they could just delete the dozens of times Minfillia calls you via linkshell to the Waking Sands to only ask you to meet somewhere else, that'd be just grand.

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Originally Posted by CodingSquirrel

Having just finished my grind from level 1 to the end of Heavensward (not the extra stuff patched in after 3.0, I'm still working on that) I feel like I feel like I have to agree with the OP. [...] But as it stands it serves as nothing more than a momentum killer for people trying to play through the game and hopefully get to max level.

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Yes there were some quests that are really not that interesting and I really hope that they do less of them in the future, especially those "go there and than here and well there too and than come back to me again" quests. I would be okay if they would cut those down a little with more expansions coming out but I don't want them to make all of the main story into a little movie or something like that..and comparing this story to games like Black desert all I can say is: Yes this games story is one of it selling points, it might not always be on the top but Black desert cant even compare to it. (Still enjoy that MMO for other aspects ;))

What I don't really understand: Why do you (not speaking of only you CodingSquirrel) have to hurry so much? Why is it so important to reach endgame so fast? Just because your friends are already max level does not mean that you have to power through the game. You can always play with them anyway and dungeons are still quite fun if you are doing them synch and there is even a raid for level 50 which is still not that easy synch. I had enough people in our fc that did the same and after that were bored quite fast. There is not much to do at max level outside of raiding at least not if you want to do some fighting. Doing ex primaes and other high level content might be fun for a time especially with friends but everything will become boring at some point. After that you will farm the stones and every new dungeon again and again to equip your character, waiting for the next patch.

Everything will be less fun if you power through it. Try to break it up a little. Maybe if you like gathering or crafting just do them for a time and maybe only finish a handful of quests each day. Or gamble your MGP away at the gold saucer ;). If you dont feel like playing the game for some time, its okay to not play it :). I still like this game a lot but a little bit before another patch hit I get a bored of it so I do other things.

Final fantasy was never a MMO series.It's a JRPG series that has branched off to an MMO game aswell.It was never gonna be like one of those souless grind monsters for 20 hours to gain one level mmo's.
It's story driven which is actually a good thing and why it's not as boring as other MMO's
If people don't like the idea of story in a Final fantasy game well then Final fantasy is not for you.
If you want to just grind monsters all day long and do 'serious' MMO raiding well there are plenty of linear MMO's out there for you to choose from.

I think all they'd really need to change is take a bunch of those boring fetch and carry quests at lvl 50 and reflag them as side quests instead of main quest. They don't add anything to the story, and are generally the part people find the most boring and grindy. They'd still be there for anyone who wanted to do everything, and would smooth out the story(less interruptions for meaningless tasks), and make it faster for those who wanted to skip them.

Personally I love questing and storyline, so I do every single one of them, but I can understand that 2.55 does lag a bit.

Why can't people GRASP that people are NEW and what does new mean? It means you have to start from the BEGINNING just like everyone else did. What don't people understand about that FFS. Someone will always be ahead of you and someone will always be behind you its just the way it is. Coming in here complaining and acting like entitled little cry babies is pathetic. Ive tried to be nice but its getting out of hand now. Stop being lazy do the quests just like everyone else has, grab your friends or FC m8s or your cat for all I care( which I don't because I could care less about any of you who complain) and unsync all main content. Its a game and its an RPG at heart( as much as yoshi will allow it to be anyway) they don't cater to the I WANT IT NOW people(for the most part), except for the new jobs which start at level 30 but thats a whole another topic I will not go into.

TL;DR
BUCK UP AND DO IT or stay where you are and keep complaining and quit(Which I hope to god you do)

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

I have however, met dozens of people who say they have skipped every cutscene they've ever been given in this game.

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Don't really care about your other points to argue further as it would lead nowhere and ultimately because thats your opinion on the matter so I respect that, but this^ right there is kind of defeating one of the major selling points of this game.

And my point still stands, if people are playing this game to only raid and nothing else then they are missing and skipping on a lot of everything else, there are much better suited mmo's out there for the people who love to raid and only raid.

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Originally Posted by bass9020

Why can't people GRASP that people are NEW and what does new mean? It means you have to start from the BEGINNING just like everyone else did. What don't people understand about that FFS. Someone will always be ahead of you and someone will always be behind you its just the way it is. Coming in here complaining and acting like entitled little cry babies is pathetic.. Its a game and its an RPG at heart( as much as yoshi will allow it to be anyway) they don't cater to the I WANT IT NOW people

TL;DR
BUCK UP AND DO IT or stay where you are and keep complaining and quit(Which I hope to god you do)

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The only thing pathetic and out of hand here is your attitude. It's a whole different experience to do parts of the main story line here and there between patches than to do years of patches in one go. Every gameplay element in mmos including this one have a way of making old content more feasible for upcoming players to catch up.

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Originally Posted by Marcellus_Cassius

The only thing pathetic and out of hand here is your attitude. It's a whole different experience to do parts of the main story line here and there between patches than to do years of patches in one go. Every gameplay element in mmos including this one have a way of making old content more feasible for upcoming players to catch up.

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My attitude? Have you seen people on this forum? Im sorry I'm tired of seeing threads with babies crying because they can't handle content or can't take the time to get something done. OBVIOUSLY they put effort into making the content the way it is and don't want people skipping it. If I'm being too blunt or harsh I don't really care.

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Originally Posted by Jermz

I was wondering if anyone else felt this way?

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My sister did, and unfortunately she didn't even re-sub as soon as I told her that the expansion was locked behind main quest (and unlike her I was already done, so I couldn't even accompany her, except for dungeons).
Fun fact: she actually followed the story - unlike me who skips everything. She just found the quest locking annoying and didn't want to feel forced to do story bits just to unlock dungeons. I remember when she got super annoyed that she was nearly 30 and still didn't unlock her first dungeon, until I said "did you do your MSQ" ...her reaction was priceless!

On the other hand, a friend quit the game at level 12 because he couldn't stand the voice acting of the game (not even the story itself). A bit harsh, but he's a big fan of SWTOR story telling so for him this was a massive downgrade.

Can't please everyone, such is life. As far as I am concerned the best thing about this MMO is how heavily story centric it is. If came expecting something else then I think that is a problem you made for yourself like if I bought CoD and then complained that is too centered around shooting. Maybe you could try WoW instead, they let you buy with RL money your way to level cap officially without having to put up with much of a story. I am sure SE could trim some of the story quests in terms of when asks for fetching 20 x items they could reduce to 5 x items but in terms of story quest quantity...that should remain how it is.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

That's funny, because I have never met anyone who enjoyed collecting 15 bomb cores or whatever generic quest you can think of.

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quest task =/= story.
The story you find in the texts while speaking with NPCs. Don't mix it up with what you have to collect for the quest.

I feel sorry for the one who skipped thru just for "end game". Lolss notfeeling sorry.
They wont begin raiding in a month anyways. It takes MONTHs to upgrade their gear to do raiding.... I dont like inpatience player who just skips stuff:)

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Originally Posted by Johaandr

I dont like inpatience player who just skips stuff:)

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Or maybe they simply don't like the story. Shocking, I know, but it's a possibility!

Honestly I don't mind if people skip through the story, I only mind when they start loudly complaining non-stop about how stupid it is that they have to play through the story in a role playing game in order to get to the next "level".

Raiding is a very small part of the game anyway. Four bosses every six months is a pretty small amount compared to getting 4 dungeons, 1 24 main raid, a few trials, 2 story updates, and a sprinkling of side stories in the same time frame. I don't understand why'd you pay $12~$15 a month to get like...a single Timbit from the box, but to each their own; just don't rain on anyone else's parade because you only took one Timbit! (っ◞‸◟c)

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

Or maybe they simply don't like the story. Shocking, I know, but it's a possibility!

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But why does everything have to change because people don't like the story? Why should the game cater to those people? Its bad enough it caters to most people who can't put effort into anything

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Originally Posted by Johaandr

I feel sorry for the one who skipped thru just for "end game". Lolss notfeeling sorry.
They wont begin raiding in a month anyways. It takes MONTHs to upgrade their gear to do raiding.... I dont like inpatience player who just skips stuff:)

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No-one is suggesting the story be optional or skipped, the few constructive posts suggested the meaningless filler quests such as those exemplified by CodingSquirrel be excluded. Something that would culminate in a more fulfilling questing experience if we take out a few nuisances. Altogether all we're asking is SE polish their product.

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Originally Posted by bass9020

But why does everything have to change because people don't like the story? Why should the game cater to those people? Its bad enough it caters to most people who can't put effort into anything

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A lot of the story is filler. Remove the filler, you have a much more fluid story. Remove the story however? Honestly no: having a campaign is always appreciated, whether you follow it or not.
Regardless, there will be people who won't like the story and will skip it, as well as people who will like the story and won't skip it. Not everyone will like the same story as you do.

Infact one of the main reason I skipped the story was due to the fluff content that was really boring to do and, in my opinion, simply "bad". However if it had less meaningless actions or less silly quests to do, I wouldn't have quit at Coerthas, as it was the point where I just couldn't handle it anymore and moved forward. My sister as well had issues following that part around. Oh and we're both lovers of stories in videogames, especially rpgs: we just happen to dislike this game's story.

PS: if someone pulls out the "Story gets better after" arguement, my reply is "20-40 hours of fluff for reaching the good parts is a flaw"

People are in a rush to get to the end and for what? To all complain at how lacking the end game is?