Victimize recast and Simian Thrash

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Originally Posted by Akk

Oh, I have too. But have you ever tried competing with 25+ DPS Lancers? It's a fun game I like to fail at hardcore.

Edit: 25+ DPS Lancers who take half of the AE damage I do, due to being able to avoid Sear completely, have a better chance at avoiding Burst, and not have to worry as much about Eruption positions because there should be no one behind them ever.

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yeah i think when working with lancer, they forgot that they have superior range to other classes, mostly because until ifrit, most lancers didnt bother to use their safe ranges.

Still the damage you do as pug is enough.
The range is another topic.

No, it's not. Incoming damage, utility, and DPS are all important parts of the same thing.

The most important part is whether or not it's fun. I'm trying to do the best job I can personally do in any given encounter with any of the classes I have at 50. It'd be great if Pugilist was able to shine in one way on Ifrit, or gleam at a few, or not have such sub-par DPS for having to work a lot harder.

The only "fun" part of Ifrit for me as a Pugilist is sitting on the edge of my seat for the whole encounter, but then I realize the rest of the DDers (well, some of them) carried me through the fight.

lol ok we just wait for monk then :)
But I still think that pug is not "archer bad" on the fight.

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Originally Posted by Meleena

lol ok we just wait for monk then :)
But I still think that pug is not "archer bad" on the fight.

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i dont think pugilist is bad, but really, theoretically, we should have had more benefit than a lance on a one on one fight, as is, we are actually less effecient defensively (less range so more likely to to take dmg) and basically fairly close damage wise (but if this is less then huh?)

point is pug cant attack multi targets as well as any other job, and cant take less damage overall than any other job, where is its strength?
hmmm

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Originally Posted by Meleena

lol ok we just wait for monk then :)
But I still think that pug is not "archer bad" on the fight.

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it might not be as long as a wait till monk even. abilities revamp might do something for PUG

I like the class but Im a monk fan thats why :P

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Originally Posted by Physic

, where is its strength?
hmmm

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We'll shine when mobs come out made of cinder blocks and cheap ply wood.

Hell, we could do well against brick mobs too.

Don't get me wrong.

I still feel Pugilist is awesome against flying MOBs and lightning-based MOBs, and great (as well as interesting/fun) against MOBs we can reliably get an evade/miss from (mainly for Simian Thrash), buuuut...

Ifrit is the first primal (the first fight that matters, at least as far as lore), he's relatively difficult (though, it's hard for me to say how hard he'll be after my positioning lag issue is fixed), and I'd expect Pugilist would be great in the evil moogles fight (as the abilities/stats/equipment are now). But still, seeing how badly Ifrit was tuned towards Archers and Pugilists makes me a saaaad panda.


Edit: and I'm also looking forward to Monk with great anticipation.

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

We'll shine when mobs come out made of cinder blocks and cheap ply wood.

Hell, we could do well against brick mobs too.

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lol we got that, its follow through, and the ability to break a brick behind the monster is only soooo useful.

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

We'll shine when mobs come out made of cinder blocks and cheap ply wood.

Hell, we could do well against brick mobs too.

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http://www.pokemonpodcast.com/storag...=1285735677433

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Originally Posted by Firon

Ok I'm gonna try to make this short and sweet. I just want to say PGL is my favorite class, but what makes me angry is that, it feels like the Dev team buff's and nerfs PGL at the same time.

Example: They Buff Victimize for this patch and add an attack down debuff, but also add an 60 sec recast, I for one do not understand why this skill needs an 60 sec recast it seems utterly ridiculous to me for it have this long of a cool down. The other thing about Victimize is that we also have to hope mages can/will stick debuffs on mobs to get more damage from this weapon skill.

Next on the list is Simian Thrash, honestly I would rather them just delete this move from the game if they don't remove the retarded evade requirement to use it. The move is probably the strongest move in the game and we can not even utilize this move in combat(only solo), or in content because we are not the targets main focus, I can deal with the purple ball if you first remove the evade first.


I would like to hear other PGL players Opinion on this matter, I know that Simian Thrash has been touched on but we have not gotten a response about it.

Thanks for reading my rant lol.

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Featherfoot II -> Cover @ Tank -> Evade -> Simian Thrash.

Cross-class it while you can.

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Originally Posted by Forerunner

Featherfoot II -> Cover @ Tank -> Evade -> Simian Thrash.

Cross-class it while you can.

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Why do people keep saying dumb stuff like that lol. Why would i kill my self just to pop Simian thrash that's fkin stupid. even if i didn't die i just wasted some mages mp on healing me.

I don't wanna be TOP DSP or anything then you are subject to nerf hammer, what i am saying is that i would like to use the skill i love a lot, It's sad to see your self work your way to 50 then say hey if you wanna use your best ws in a real fight you gotta be tanking. If our evasion was even unique to our class i could soak this up more but it has the same base evasion as any other class, all 3 classes i have 50 have Base 341 evasion....

I would have been pissed in xi if i lvled mnk to 75 and did the Asuran fist quest then the game says if you wanna use this skill you must Guard your enemy attack first.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Why do people keep saying dumb stuff like that lol. Why would i kill my self just to pop Simian thrash that's fkin stupid. even if i didn't die i just wasted some mages mp on healing me.

I don't wanna be TOP DSP or anything then you are subject to nerf hammer, what i am saying is that i would like to use the skill i love a lot, It's sad to see your self work your way to 50 then say hey if you wanna use your best ws in a real fight you gotta be tanking. If our evasion was even unique to our class i could soak this up more but it has the same base evasion as any other class, all 3 classes i have 50 have Base 341 evasion....

I would have been pissed in xi if i lvled mnk to 75 and did the Asuran fist quest then the game says if you wanna use this skill you must Guard your enemy attack first.

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you probably wont get killed, thats what featherfoot is for, and if they really made simian have less conditions they would lower its dmg.

I would prefer it stay as is, and get some new skills for non tanking dps. alter follow through, pounce, or add some new weaponskills/mechanics for dps.

Against Ifrit (regarding evades/misses):

I've tried to get an evade off of his frontal claw attack 20 times all with +22 evasion, Light Strike, Featherfoot II, and Diversion (at the same time) with no success. So I wish people would stop claiming how easy it is to get an evade/miss for Simian Thrash in every encounter. Though, after 20 attempts to evade/miss failed, I stopped trying - at least until I can get additional +30 evasion. Shame on me, I know.

Even if we were able to evade/miss Ifrit's attacks 50% of the time, there's still a high amount of risk for taking damage from failing to evade/miss, getting an Eruption cast on you while you're near the tank (and subsequently making the tank take extra damage). Not to mention the long animation sequence of Simian Thrash (if we were able to use it) and not being able to manually dodge an AE, which is even more dangerous since we have to be right next to Ifrit to be within range.

monks/pugs arnt meant to be tanks now cry some more

Show me a pug out damaging a lancer, and I'll show you a gimped lancer or person that can't play their class. (in reference to the ifirit fight)

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Originally Posted by Akk

Against Ifrit (regarding evades/misses):

I've tried to get an evade off of his frontal claw attack 20 times all with +22 evasion, Light Strike, Featherfoot II, and Diversion (at the same time) with no success. So I wish people would stop claiming how easy it is to get an evade/miss for Simian Thrash in every encounter. Though, after 20 attempts to evade/miss failed, I stopped trying - at least until I can get additional +30 evasion. Shame on me, I know.

Even if we were able to evade/miss Ifrit's attacks 50% of the time, there's still a high amount of risk for taking damage from failing to evade/miss, getting an Eruption cast on you while you're near the tank (and subsequently making the tank take extra damage). Not to mention the long animation sequence of Simian Thrash (if we were able to use it) and not being able to manually dodge an AE, which is even more dangerous since we have to be right next to Ifrit to be within range.

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big problem is our gear, the gear change has made evasion a lot harder to get on gear, used to be picking the right gear and getting hq gears gave you more evasion, now you basically have to get it from materia.

Also, im curious, do you have an evasion gear set? aka earrings, felt kecks, moccasins (highest evasion stats) and materia on the feet and body? I havent, and probably never will get to test my evasion on ifrit, but basically i think right now, in order to be an evasion build, pugilist has to get 2x materia evasion peices on body and feet.

Also if they had a high level shirt that would probably be a help, but since they dont, a harness with materia is probably your best evasion body.

as far as the taking dmg, one thing pugilist has over others is a better chakra, and a large one hit dmg move for bloodweapon, pugilist can actually afford to take a large hit to hp, and heal themselves better than the other DDs i think.

The lack of decent evasion gear is a big problem for sure, but the biggest problem is there being no difference between the evasion stat of a naked Pugilist vs any other class.

I won't be wasting my time trying to evade/miss Ifrit's attacks again until I can get at least +50 evasion - which is going to be a long ways away.

I have noticed that I do better at keeping myself healed while DDing as Pugilist compared to DDing as Marauder, but it's not significant enough. And actually being capable of evading/missing Ifrit's attacks would fit so much better with what Pugilist was apparently originally intended to be.


Edit: I'm only playing Lancer now for DD during Ifrit. I only drew a comparison between Pugilist vs Marauder healing because both classes are in a similar situation, and staying alive as Lancer is basically so easy that it's non-comparable.