Implementing a PK(PvP) Server

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Shes right though, this game is pretty boring and there isn't really anything interesting or fun to do besides Role-play. Open World PvP also won't be implemented. Not because its a bad idea, I think it could be a good idea in 'most older games'.

However, FFXIV has some of the worst PvP Balance I have seen in a long time. So no, that is why it shouldn't be done.


Also.. there would NOT be any PvP, 99% of the game is INSTANCED.

Flying Mounts alone would kill high level PvP..

There isn't really a point to a PvP server, because everyone would just avoid PvP anyways.. lol

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First off, PvP classes are actually more balanced then most mmos like Elsword for example.

We already have PvP in instances so what are you talking about. If you mean open world then thats still no excuse as Wizardry Online had instanced dungeons where players can still PvP in them (game is still going in japan too).

Like Sieze, mounts give debuffs when hit slowing them down. Who says flight won't be cancelled when hit.

And finally, who would join a "PvP server" just to avoid PvP. Yeah no. Quit kicking others ideas to the curve just because you don't believe they won't happen. PvP Balance out of the rest of your points is the only reasonable concern for why a PvP server wouldn't work though it can be fixed overtime as it is being now. They'll just have to implement Skills made for that server in particular and buff certain classes. Easier said than done, but it CAN be done.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Shes right though, this game is pretty boring and there isn't really anything interesting or fun to do besides Role-play. Open World PvP also won't be implemented. Not because its a bad idea, I think it could be a good idea in 'most older games'.

However, FFXIV has some of the worst PvP Balance I have seen in a long time. So no, that is why it shouldn't be done.


Also.. there would NOT be any PvP, 99% of the game is INSTANCED.

Flying Mounts alone would kill high level PvP..

There isn't really a point to a PvP server, because everyone would just avoid PvP anyways.. lol

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This game is really an instance 99%
map does not have a broad meaning....Japan's server is located in a very closed community
there are no people in the field...
I want to do something with wide map

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

....If you are wanting to fight other players and kill them in the game, then you are playing the wrong game I'm afraid, as FFXIV will never allow that.

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But obvioulsy a lot of ppl including YoshiP and the DEV playing the wrong game as FFXIV is very hard selling PvP now. ^^;
WTFeast!

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Originally Posted by YukiMochi

This game is really an instance 99%
map does not have a broad meaning....Japan's server is located in a very closed community
there are no people in the field...
I want to do something with wide map

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Indeed. You are 100% correct in this statement. Games these days do not put much effort in the world itself and lore around the world. I am glad more people are catching up to this. ;)

I wish I could PM you and discuss more, but the forum has no Private Messaging :(

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

First off, PvP classes are actually more balanced then most mmos like Elsword for example.

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That is a good joke! =3
Never heard of that game, ever. Sounds like 1 of the 1000 pay to win free to play MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

And finally, who would join a "PvP server" just to avoid PvP.

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I can name 3 groups right off the bat:
1. People with illusions about how PvP on PvP servers typically works out
2. People who want to play with RL or old online friends who happen to play on that server
3. People who want open PvP to feel superior, aka gank helpless people without being ganked themselves

I wouldn't mind a PK server, but I think it would be fairly unbalanced considering the way each class / job works in the game.

That being said, in other games I've played with PK, there is usually some penalty for PKing someone. The more you PK, the weaker you become and your name visually changes color or something. You know, to make you a target for other players.

One thing I did like about PK was that you get summon your friends to protect you when you want to go do something. There is a sense of apprehension when you go out into the world. A sense of danger. Now being level 60, almost nothing in the game gives me a sense of danger. Very few things keep me on my toes and alert.
But not knowing if another player is hiding behind a corner, waiting to ambush you, keeps you alert.

IF there was to be PK in this game, gathering / crafting classes would have to be excluded.

But, what if they were to implement a PK zone? NOT like Frontlines, where you have to 30 minutes or more to get in and complete an objective. Also, there are really no places to ambush people in Frontlines. Enemy movement is too predictable.
Maybe by playing in the PK zone and killing players, players can receive some points or something (like wolf marks) that could be exchanged for items. Items which are NOT exclusive to PvP, but can also be obtained in other ways, should a player not choose to PvP.

I wonder if something like that would be possible.

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Originally Posted by Morzy

Why would you say never.. seems very short sighted. YP talked about PVP in a interview once saying if there was enough demand for this they could consider it, its up to the players really and frankly you dont seem very supportive or sympathetic but meh its the forums.

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It's pretty much been said but you need only look at the first two posts and the number of likes to know what the majority is in favor of. Could even make a giant poll and I feel it would still weigh in the same favor. I can't honestly see a PvP server getting much love but from a short group. I may be wrong but just tossing my info in, I know I wouldn't touch it.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

I can name 3 groups right off the bat:
1. People with illusions about how PvP on PvP servers typically works out
2. People who want to play with RL or old online friends who happen to play on that server
3. People who want open PvP to feel superior, aka gank helpless people without being ganked themselves

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1. Fair enough, though who's to say they won't make the servers accessible to those who haven't had any normal PvP experience first in the Frontlines and Wolvesden or haven't reached a certain level in the game.
2. So why would their friends let them join a server that they know would most likely give them a hard time and would they really be dense enough to not know what they'll be putting themselves into?
3. They're not avoiding PvP, that's still participating.

Still don't see a reason behind taking my one comment and talking about it, not really adding any reasons to why PvP servers is a bad thing for this game. :/

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

It's pretty much been said but you need only look at the first two posts and the number of likes to know what the majority is in favor of. Could even make a giant poll and I feel it would still weigh in the same favor. I can't honestly see a PvP server getting much love but from a short group. I may be wrong but just tossing my info in, I know I wouldn't touch it.

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Doesn't mean anything but some people have their own likes and dislikes. Some will like open world pvp and plenty may not. Good for you if you don't like it.

simply no, the pk server will have no sense, look at the gatherer that will simply victim to be prey on...
this game was not means to be pvp from the start and is better like this, bring pk server will only serve to bring more toxicity than needed. you want to pvp, you have the frontline, the feast and the wolve's den.

pk will recquire a combat system less slow than what we have right now and especially not with jobs that can be crafting and gathering without defense!

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

That is a good joke! =3
Never heard of that game, ever. Sounds like 1 of the 1000 pay to win free to play MMOs.

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Not a joke, and your actually quite rude. PvP in this game is more balance in plenty other games hand down because the Dev team actually cares for those details in PvP. Why else would they remove cleric stance and nerf astrologians cheezy aspected benefic. And where Elsword allows to buy strong upgrades with money, you can build your own to be just as strong, but classes themselves are unbalanced with some only requiring your character to run away alot just for a special attack.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

pk will recquire a combat system less slow than what we have right now and especially not with jobs that can be crafting and gathering without defense!

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To all those that keep saying things like this must of never played in pvp server before. There are safezones for that kind of stuff. Mostly in towns, you are invulnerable to attacks. As for gathering, you have stealth for a reason. What do you think its for?

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

Still don't see a reason behind taking my one comment and talking about it, not really adding any reasons to why PvP servers is a bad thing for this game. :/

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Well, you asked a question (albeit probably rhetorical from your PoV) and I answered. Nothing more, nothing less. Hope that clears up that bit of confusion.

Trying to argue pro/contra for/against anything on an internet forum is like having two walls with opposing agendas painted on them and waiting for either to crumble anyway.

you know that solve nothing the stealth? seriously, if you want a pvp server you have tons of game out for this...
FF14 was never means to be a pvp game... yoshida love pvp and added a mode for this, but that will not go farer.

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

Not a joke, and your actually quite rude. PvP in this game is more balance in plenty other games hand down because the Dev team actually cares for those details in PvP. Why else would they remove cleric stance and nerf astrologians cheezy aspected benefic. And where Elsword allows to buy strong upgrades with money, you can build your own to be just as strong, but classes themselves are unbalanced with some only requiring your character to run away alot just for a special attack.

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Isn't Elsword also the game where you have like 3 attack slots but if you want to use more skills seeing as you learn quite a few you have to pay real money to unlock them? Sounds very pay to win right there cus I did play it, I recall some skills having cool downs thus more skills, more uptime.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

Isn't Elsword also the game where you have like 3 attack slots but if you want to use more skills seeing as you learn quite a few you have to pay real money to unlock them? Sounds very pay to win right there cus I did play it, I recall some skills having cool downs thus more skills, more uptime.

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You can buy them in-game too if you actually work for it. Its more like pay for luxury.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

you know that solve nothing the stealth? seriously, if you want a pvp server you have tons of game out for this...
FF14 was never means to be a pvp game... yoshida love pvp and added a mode for this, but that will not go farer.

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Not only stealth, as it was a suggestion. Why not make gatherers invincible?
And who are you to say PvP won't go farther than it is now? If you don't want PvP than you can go play another game as well now can't you? Seriously, telling what others to play is getting old. You don't like PvP and some others like it, get over it.

you are the one aggressive, we did offer you the reason of why pk server will never happend, plus i states a fact FF14 is first a pve game, for yoshida (dixit himself) he do hope the pvp to be used by less of 20% of the community and let's face it, i doubt it do reach this number with the pain to gather people for even launch a frontline.

plus like i have said pk server most of the time only bring toxicity, not bringing fun... ganking, greykilling, camping and i'm sure we can find tons of other stuff like this that bloom in this sort of server.

my statement about the fact that tons of other game that offer pvp server is true, and like said, ff14 will never have this sort of content, for the sole and good reason that the game was never create in this sense. then instead to ask to bring something not fitting into the game, if you really want a pk server experience, the best is to look for a game make for this, no?

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

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The fact that you think telling people "this will not work because it doesn't fit in" is the part where its rude. The reasons are similar to responses you get when people ask for something trivial on a troll forum and everyone just shoves it aside because they don't like it giving the most unreasonable excuses they can think of.

Toxicity comes from the community itself, not the game. When you have players restricted to random queues having them work together in some savage raid where one person makes a mistake ruins it for everyone, its the community that shares its toxicity by yelling at that person for not knowing what to do or not being too experienced. When you have players running trials together for specific loot and one player who doesn't do as good as the others and gets the loot drop, its that other player who told that person they didn't deserve it which builds toxicity.

PvP, you know what your getting into. Ganking, camping and pking players won't build toxicity. Its the players themselves when they taunt you or call you a for being ganked.

btw, frontlines is only doing so bad because how Yoshi ad the team keep implementing modes like themepark minigames, making players wait in queues to participate and PvP doesn't work well that way. If they made all the modes work together they wouldn't have this problem. Not to mention they have a new mode now, no one is going to go back when the new one has rewards that are exclusive to that mode. Aggressive... I'm not the one telling people to play something else when they're allowed to request things in these forums, right?

is not rude, it's a fact dude... wolve's den was a joke and frontline is not better... melee run after caster that can destroy them easily... the pvp mode of FF14 was added for please yoshida and a small part of the community. but the whole game system is not made for pvp, the gcd is too long and the balance is all over the place. plus like i have said the gatherer will be hunted without be able to defend themself, stealth will not work, since some class have skill for detect stealth, worst if you know where the gathering spot are (because they are always at the same place) you can litterally camp the place.

seriously, what you want is not fiting with the game is not about being rude is about being realist.

Problem with this game is it's not built around world PvP it'd be implemented very poorly all you had to do was join a FATE, ilvl sync a few lvls lower than that FATE, Boom in comes someone to gank you that's higher than the lvl for the FATE. I'm not a care bear by any means i'm just being real here the game would never support PvP it'd be fun, but horribly imbalanced.

This is coming from someone who loved world PvP in WoW, TERA, Blade and Soul just to throw some games that did world PvP it's well deserved justice FFXIV however is just too well...awkward in terms of PvP there's no real identity for half of the classes in PvP and there's only synergy with a few classes and once people roll with those + those asshats that are max lvl and camp lowbies is a recipe for disaster.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

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It'd be up to the devs to balance classes but as a suggestion, mages can instacast but damage will be slighty reduced. Gathering classes can have invincibility but can only swap back to battle classes in safe zones. If I can come up with resolves for these issues, the devs will have an even easier time doing it than me.

Your not being a realist your actually being close-minded. You think of the worst possible scenario and never think of a way to resolve it yourself.

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Originally Posted by Awful

all you had to do was join a FATE, ilvl sync a few lvls lower than that FATE, Boom in comes someone to gank you that's higher than the lvl for the FATE.

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Entering a FATE synched will grant you an invicibilty from pks as well as a 10sec buff after the FATE is over. To add, while your in a pvp battle you may not enter a fate till the battle is resolved.

- An optional level 60 (so lowbies won't be ganked) open world PK map (not a whole server) with item level sync around 150-ish.

- For lore, 2 or more local beast tribes are at war with each other (they can turn it to something like a cultural sport or whatever. They can force glamour us too with less deadly looking weapons like what they recently did.) and adventurers can freely choose which side they want regardless of their grand company. Adventurers can only attack someone from the opposing side. Adventurers can also switch sides by paying with beast tribe tokens or something similar. Switching sides will have a cooldown too so it won't get abused.

- Gatherers can have unlimited stealth but players will have a special item or something that can dispel it.

- NPC guards in safe areas.

I want to look at this from another angle... Job balancing in PvP and PvE is currently done in hindsight. They design it one way, and then after data is collected, they make adjustments that correct issues or appease the player base. The thing is that players use jobs in ways that SE can't ever imagine, and they know this. Having a server where players are allowed to push the confines of the game isn't such a bad thing. Yes it would be a hostile place, but considering the amount of useful data from the job mismatches alone it could be a boon to PvE balancing as well. In saying that, I think that all that really matters is that players understand that this isn't a normal server. If you agree to chaos and bad balancing what is there to complain about? Are you telling me that survival sandbox games are well balanced? Because then I question if you've ever played one.

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Originally Posted by Nerisu

- Gatherers can have unlimited stealth but players will have a special item or something that can dispel it.

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Why, though? Gatherers can't conceivably even do anything to affect PvP, so why should they fall victim to it?

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Why, though? Gatherers can't conceivably even do anything to affect PvP, so why should they fall victim to it?

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Gameplay mechanic? They can make gatherers able to mine/harvest/fish stuff that will buff the party/their chosen side or vice versa.

The thing is, if they were to implement PVP servers, then we would see threads of "WORLD PVP IS DEAD! BLIZZ-I MEAN SE KILLED WORLD PVP" when the fact is usually that the majority of players just don't care for pvp.

And we all know that "world pvp" is code for "ganking that level 7 Warlock with your level 100 Rogue".

In an open PvP world I'd be against letting gatherers/crafters be removed from pvp or given a strong stealth. This would lead to people using them to scout for targets of opportunity, or to escape from a fight.
Imagine being out in the world, nobody in sight, so you start fighting a fate or hunting target. And then someone unstealths, switches classes and one-shots you. They then immediately switch back and vanish or become immune to retaliation. This is not fun; you need to have some reasonable way to avoid them or fight back.

At the very least, switching classes would have to be restricted in some way outside of personal innrooms.

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Originally Posted by Pells

In an open PvP world I'd be against letting gatherers/crafters be removed from pvp or given a strong stealth. This would lead to people using them to scout for targets of opportunity, or to escape from a fight.
Imagine being out in the world, nobody in sight, so you start fighting a fate or hunting target. And then someone unstealths, switches classes and one-shots you. They then immediately switch back and vanish or become immune to retaliation. This is not fun; you need to have some reasonable way to avoid them or fight back.

At the very least, switching classes would have to be restricted in some way outside of personal innrooms.

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Except when you switch classes in the field your skills are locked for like 30secs, so your just signing a deathwish unless your auto-attacks are over powered.

Possibly. Though the given scenario has the victim engaging a stronger than normal mob. How quickly can they escape combat, or do they fight while taking the damage from both? 30 seconds is basically the same as the DF timer when it pops, so we're assuming the attacker is spotted as soon as they appear. (I find that I have to run immediately if I need to be out of combat to switch and join the DF.) Remember that the hidden combatant gets to choose where and when the fight starts, since they are immune until then. Further, anyone who would go for the cheap kills will likely be overpowered to begin with, so yes, auto-attacks are likely to do the job.

There's also something like five seconds after combat before they can escape by switching back to a non-combat class, which won't really amount to much though, will it?

Open world PvP is a bad idea in general. You are invariably going to get players who run around killing anyone that's a gatherer/crafter or lower level than they are. And when the inevitable, "What the hell, I was just gathering/crafting/chatting with friends/company mates here!" you will just as invariably get the defense, "lol i thot u were a bot"... There is no getting around it. "But you can just report these people." will do nothing as these players do not have a hive mind and shaming people on the forums can get you banned just as quickly. The notion of open world PvP also flies in the face of what makes a game a Final Fantasy game. We are heroes, one and all, and heroes don't kill indiscriminately. Yet this is the point of PvP, indiscriminate killing. The PvP we have is the best you will get.

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Originally Posted by Pells

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Dunno about you but the time I did play WoW whenever I was in contested territory I was ALWAYS on watch for potential player threats, more so when I was engaged in combat cus that is when they are most likely to strike. However if they were indeed overpowered they wouldn't have a need to stealth around to find you they would just spawn next to you, engage so you can't run away, laugh as you try to hit them then 1shot you. Regardless it has been said best, we are heros all working toward the same goal, killing each other for no reason would make zero sense.

Imo the best thing they can add PvP wise in this game would be a Lord of the Rings online PvP system clone. This could work in 2 ways to be lore appropriate. One way would be to have PvP creep/bad guys added to the game with the ability to create a bad guy just for PvP usage. The other would be some kind of power struggle between the grand companies. In any case, adding a huge map with multiple siege-able forts and a deep gameplay will make for a much more interesting PvP experience than this Feast bullshit.

Oh no. Just... no. I think that they can make the current pvp way better, but pking... I don't really see how it would be healthy in a game like FFXIV. People pking lowbies, or gathering classes doesn't really seems fun.

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Originally Posted by Morzy

Why would you say never.

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Its because there is a large contingent of people on the server who like to be negative toward any idea that is proposed. Even if those ideas to not effect them in any way.

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Originally Posted by Asmodai

Its because there is a large contingent of people on the server who like to be negative toward any idea that is proposed. Even if those ideas to not effect them in any way.

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Actually it would affect them because a new server means the potential for people to leave their current servers even more.

People who say PK instead of PvP

http://49.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5...nmpao1_500.gif

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Originally Posted by Asmodai

Its because there is a large contingent of people on the server who like to be negative toward any idea that is proposed. Even if those ideas to not effect them in any way.

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Well it would affect me by taking development time away from ideas I actually enjoy and furthering content I already enjoy. I would rather the dev team spend time making more glamour gear or making sure the new treasure dungeons are fun than putting time into advancing an idea I don't like, like this open world PvP.

Many say no to new ideas because nobody wants to see time from aspects they like moved to developing ideas they don't like. Every change affects every player to some degree.

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Originally Posted by LadyVal

Well it would affect me by taking development time away from ideas I actually enjoy and furthering content I already enjoy. I would rather the dev team spend time making more glamour gear or making sure the new treasure dungeons are fun than putting time into advancing an idea I don't like, like this open world PvP.

Many say no to new ideas because nobody wants to see time from aspects they like moved to developing ideas they don't like. Every change affects every player to some degree.

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You mean the time they had to make Diadem, those new dungeons that are basically one-lane rollercoaster rides with pit stops (enemies), glamour that does absolutely nothing to add to the core content of the game, and pointless savage/ hardcore modes which only have players fighting trial monsters like an instant boss run (shouldn't even be considered a raid). Open world PvP has much more possibilities, whether SE goes half-***ed and just make pking possible, players would literally still make it more enjoyable just by being there.

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

You mean the time they had to make Diadem, those new dungeons that are basically one-lane rollercoaster rides with pit stops (enemies), glamour that does absolutely nothing to add the core content, and pointless savage/ hardcore modes which only have players fighting trial monsters like an instant boss run (shouldn't even be considered a raid). Open world PvP has much more possibilities, whether SE goes half-***ed and just make pking possible, players would literally still make it more enjoyable just by being there.

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Yes, all content is useless and what can save the game is letting people kill each other on maps. Right.
Anyway, I couldn't care less if it's a separated server. Although I do prefer the man-work on other things.

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

Open world PvP has much more possibilities, whether SE goes half-***ed and just make pking possible, players would literally still make it more enjoyable just by being there.

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I've been playing MMOs for decades now, with the list of MMOs being a mix of both PvE and PvP and mixes of the two, and have never once found it enjoyable getting killed just because I was there. Not even exaggerating. In Tibia's older years there was only open world PvP servers. I was literally killed twice in Tibia just for being sociable. In Graal, an MMO built to look like a SNES Zelda game, I was killed by players throwing shrubs at me. Once to keep me from reaching the end of a maze where a treasure item was. I really do not get the appeal of PvP, and I hope I never will if past experiences tell me anything.

Another issue that pvp general does to MMOs is that it tends to adversely affect the pve aspect of a game. An ability with an effect that is considerably powerful in a pvp environment would end up getting adjusted so that it isn't quite as powerful. However, it results in that ability in becoming lackluster, if not useless, in pve environments (especially raiding). This is my biggest gripe about games with pvp (especially world pvp).

Guild Wars 1 (and I'm hoping Guild Wars 2) eventually started getting it right with giving each ability two effects: one for pve and one for pvp. So they can tweak one aspect without adversely affecting the other.