Pally Is Almost Perfect

I just have one thing to say

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Originally Posted by Februs

Oath swapping basically did not change. It doesn't cancel our combo anymore. Great. It still takes a turn of the GCD, meaning that the best time to use it is at the start of a combo (typically when FoF comes back around off of CD). Meaning the optimal way of using SwO is: Sword Oath > Fight or Flight > Fast blade ... notice that this usage does not interrupt our combo anyway? That's cuz' it doesn't. The optimal way of using Sword Oath never did. So this change is just window dressing.

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This is absolutely not true? The optimal way to turn Sword Oath on when FoF is back is now:

Fast > Riot > Sword > FoF > Goring > etc

Since delaying FoF in the GCD before the 3rd hit of your combo allows you to get that finisher + 4 more full combos before the effect wears off. Using it before Fast Blade makes it last for 4 combos and the next Fast Blade. Strictly worse by any measurement.

The lack of combo interruption is a huge deal.

I do agree with the rest of your post, though.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

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That's true, and I made an error there (a little sleep deprived). That said, I'm still not seeing how your way is more optimal. Looking at just the amount of potency buffed and the timing of FoF's CD, I'm pretty sure it still works out to be better to swap Oaths before the combo, in order to save time. Doing some quick napkin math, this is what I'm looking at:

Your suggested way: Fast Blade (150 pot) > SwO > FoF > Riot Blade (230 pot) > Goring Blade (240 pot + 50 pot) > Fast Blade (150 pot) > Savage Blade (200 pot) > Royal Authority (350 pot) + FB (150) + SB (200) + RA (350) + FB (150) + RB (230) + GB (240 +50) + FB (150) >ShO

Combined Buffed Potency of 2740

My suggested way: ShO > FoF > FB (150) > RB (230) > GB (240+50) > FB(150) > SB(200) > RA(350) > FB(150) > SB(200) > RA(350) > FB(150) > RB(230) > GB(240+50) > ShO

Combined Buffed Potency 2740


The amount of potency buffed is identical. The only difference is that my preferred method does not delay FoF. It is used on CD, every 30 seconds, like clockwork. Meaning that, over the course of the fight, I'm not stacking 2.5 seconds each time I delay FoF. This is the exact same way I did it before Oaths were changed, and, by the looks of that quick math, there is really no additional benefit to doing it the new way over the old way, unless I'm missing something (which is possible, since I haven't slept). If there is one downside to my way, it's that it cuts the application of the second DoT a little close. If there are any interruptions to your rotation during the fight, you stand to miss out on a bigger potency than in your preferred method. That said, to my recollection, it is a rare instance in which I don't get that last GB off in time.

I don't know though, I could be totally missing my mark on this. If I am, or if there's something else that I'm not considering, let me know. Because, at the moment, the change to Oaths really doesn't look like anything other than window dressing to me. It gives me a bit more freedom in my rotation, but no direct benefit.

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Originally Posted by Februs

Stuff.

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Some slight benefit in regards to tank swapping

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Originally Posted by JackFross

I just have one thing to say

This is absolutely not true? The optimal way to turn Sword Oath on when FoF is back is now:

Fast > Riot > Sword > FoF > Goring > etc

Since delaying FoF in the GCD before the 3rd hit of your combo allows you to get that finisher + 4 more full combos before the effect wears off. Using it before Fast Blade makes it last for 4 combos and the next Fast Blade. Strictly worse by any measurement.

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You want it before the Riot Blade because Savage Blade is 30 potency less.

SwO -> FoF -> GB (640) -> FB (150) -> SB (200) -> RA (350) -> FB (150) -> SB (200) -> RA (350) -> FB (150) -> RB (230) -> GB (640) -> FB (150) -> SB (200) -> ShO is 3410 potency buffed by FoF

SwO -> FoF -> RB (230) -> GB (640) -> FB (150) -> SB (200) -> RA (350) -> FB (150) -> SB (200) -> RA (350) -> FB (150) -> RB (230) -> GB (640) -> FB (150) -> ShO is 3440 potency buffed by FoF

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Originally Posted by Februs

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Less chance of having the final Goring Blade fail to be buffed due to lag/other delays. Starting at Riot Blade and ending at Fast Blade means that both Goring Blades should always be fully buffed.

Well, if you had a good group it would only be 2 knockbacks! and the second can be negated by Hallowed ground (also prevents movements)

I like how, with Shield Oath's buff, you can use Royal Authority instead of RoH and still hold aggro just fine. I like that alot.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

You want it before the Riot Blade because Savage Blade is 30 potency less.

Less chance of having the final Goring Blade fail to be buffed due to lag/other delays. Starting at Riot Blade and ending at Fast Blade means that both Goring Blades should always be fully buffed.

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I've typically had enough skill speed (~2.38) that I can start on GB, RA combo twice, get another GB, and end with RA. That said, I usually just swapped to Sword Oath with ~7s remaining on FoF's CD before (in Sword for ~40s per 90s), so apart from being able to hold onto my mitigation for another 2 GCDs, the Oath changes haven't changed much of anything in this regard for me. If I needed the mitigation longer, I'd just drop Shield before FoF-GB, CoS, SW, Sword Oath, RA combo, RA combo, GB combo, Fast, Savage, (FoF gone), RA, swap back to Shield. (With Fey Wind I think I could barely get the RA, and with Arrow I could easily get it and another GCD, had I wanted to, or started on Riot instead, though I'd be missing out on an AA bonus there anyways.) Each GB reaches its full duration rather than being clipped (now) 50-100 potency short, though the lost buffed GCD certainly hurt.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

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So, basically, it really doesn't make a difference. With my current Skill Speed, I have never (to my recollection) missed out on that last GB. I typically get it off with time to spare, so delaying FoF in order to guarantee a move that is essentially already guaranteed is just a waste of time on my FoF buff. Considering that I would need to delay FoF by 2.5 seconds on application just to do this, I stand to lose more potency over the course of the entire fight than if I just popped it on CD, so, all things considered, I'm gonna stick with my original statement then: The change to Oath Swapping basically did not change anything.

Given that I can still play Pld identically to the way I did before without any loss in potency or enmity means that their change of Oath Swapping is just window dressing. The only time it even comes in handy during Tank swaps, but even those are still clunky, because burning a GCD to swap Oaths means delaying your next enmity strike (unless you happen to have CoS up and at the ready). Otherwise, the change really didn't make a noticeable difference, so it's nothing special.

I'd like tempered will to be more like a more powerful warden's paean (more powerful due to the much longer recast). So you'll remove any debuff, not just bind and heavy, be immune to any debuff for the duration + immune to knock back and draw in. This would make it much more useful, especially as a tank having the ability to remove your own debuffs and make it much more worthy of the 3min recast (and the bonus of making WARs jealous :P).

Late to the party, but I still find PLDs kit to be lackluster. I understand that square doesn't want clemency as an oGCD, but still interrupting combos? There are very few uses for clemency at the moment because of how clunky it is to use:

1. Break your combo to Clemency.
2. Finish combo and Clemency later.
3. Clemency in between phases to top party members or proc Divine Veil.

Clemency needs to not interrupt combos, and also needs immunity from casting interruption.

Bulwark could also stand some tweaking.

1. block rate 60% => 100%.
2. block strength nerfed by 25%.

This gives PLD a solid physical damage cooldown that can mimic but not overpower raw intuition.

Add Chivalry.
2 minute cooldown. Cost 50% mana pool.
Restores 100 tp.

some of these numbers could be tweaked for efficiency but I don't see these as game breaking at all. Also please drop the GCD requirement for either SwO or ShO; doesn't matter just pick one.

I am contend with my PLD for now, except Tempered Will cooldown is long, and cover distant is short....