Compromise: Just Charge $5 For Now. Once 2.0 is Out, Then Charge $12

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Originally Posted by Alerith

The only part I don't understand is that some of these people saying they'll pay for a $7 subscription are some of the same people who were arguing "It's not the price, it's the principle!"...

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It's the principle of paying full price for a half-finished game.

I'm sure for most of them, paying half price for a half-finished game is just fine, as evidenced by the Blue Garter poll.

SE's option is simple, charge $5-7 and have some unknown portion of the community that isn't capable/willing to pay for $5-7 more a month. That narrow margin lies the entire whole of the player base that would be effected, while the rest of us who are willing to pay simply benefit from being charged less for a little while.

Personally, I think it's complete and utter nonsense from a business standpoint. You start billing or you don't. If you aren't ready to start billing now, you hold off until you are. Yoshida already told us before all of this when he was going to announce the billing. Which was a 2-3 months before and they were able to present an adequate outline of the game's future to the players.

Having done this, the right thing to do is to start billing after 2-3 months of announcing said outline. Charging half the amount is ludicrous when the obvious alternative plan would be to hold off billing, then implement the full billing plan after certain criteria has been met.

Charge us 25 dollars and release content sooner.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

It's the principle of paying full price for a half-finished game.

I'm sure for most of them, paying half price for a half-finished game is just fine, as evidenced by the Blue Garter poll.

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I support this, its a fair trade.

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Originally Posted by ArcheustheWise

And you can prove that? No, i doubt you can... because you don't have the numbers of any mmo out there that people that actually said that, quit, then recorded it for proof.

Stop acting like you know something unless you can prove it. Your as just as much talk as the post you made.

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It's been proven over and over again when gamers "boycott" games. I don't need to prove anything, the facts are already out there. I'm sure you are one of those people and the only reason you're even commenting is because you know if SE comes around in Dec and says gimme 12 bucks, you're going to say "fine! have your damn 12 bucks."

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Originally Posted by Wynn

It's been proven over and over again when gamers "boycott" games. I don't need to prove anything, the facts are already out there. I'm sure you are one of those people and the only reason you're even commenting is because you know if SE comes around in Dec and says gimme 12 bucks, you're going to say "fine! have your damn 12 bucks."

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Link with proof please? Articles?

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Originally Posted by http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/107497-FFXIV-Naoki-Yoshida-Interview-Transcription

The 50% number, during the Live Producer letter, came from where they were at before the release of 1.19. Once 1.2 is released, that will be even closer to the final vision of the current game. We want players to try 1.2 and see that our game is officially worth paying for, which is when the customers can decide if they want to pay for it or not.

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Don't forget that the game will no longer be 50% when they start charging.

I feel that currently the game is where it should have been at launch. I would have paid my sub back then for what we have now, so what wrong with paying full price?

If we pay 1/2 price up until ver 2.0 comes out, how many people would be pissed that all of a sudden they now have to pay twice as much in December 2012? You know this will happen.

I have a feeling that a lot of people who say they will not pay to play, will be gone for a month or two and then come to find they miss the game. We have been playing the game for a year for free. Its hard to see all the work that has gone into FFXIV over the past year when we've been playing it for just as long. From that point of view it's hard to say yes this game is worth money now. But if you never played FFXIV before and you just arrive into the game there is a lot to do, and it's worth paying for.

Think of it like this: Patch 1.20 is the new PC launch of old FFXIV. We get a last little bit of free play time after 1.20 lands and then we decide pay for it or put it down.

From that point it's like any MMO, it has updates. We just know what we'll have a year from now. And that update is going to be HUGE!

So again. Ask yourself. What in 1.19 and 1.20 is missing from a solid starting point of a newly launched game? If FFXIV started a year ago with 1.20 would you be willing to pay for it? You already own the box, you've gotten a free year to play.

People are pissed that what they have been getting for free is now, not free. Those that don't want to pay that like the game would rather pay half price. But the game from my point of view is where it should have been at launch, according to SE even more so with 1.20. So why wouldn't we pay full price? We have a very playable game, with a lot to do and a major expansion coming in a year.

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

I have a feeling that a lot of people who say they will not pay to play, will be gone for a month or two and then come to find they miss the game.

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I doubt they will even leave.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Why in the world would anyone on a budget want to pay 12 bucks a month for this game when there are other options like Star Wars, Guild Wars II, and Diablo III out there?

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RP Mode ON: "By the Twelve! seems there's someone with some WISDOM in this Dark Era!!!

RP Mode OFF: Happy to see that we're in the same server.I said it in alot of posts and ill say it again,i will gladly pay 5,7, hell,even 10 EUROS because that's the price in EU,(seems that alot of ppl forget that the Euro is higher than the dollar right now), and that's is how it should be my friends,but i will not pay 15 EUROS month...reason? sorry,but i'm tired of repeating myself,and it's not only me.

To those Square-Enix "Paladins" AKA:Fanboys(I'm not pointing anyone in this post),stop defending what you cannot defend,why you cannot understand and respect the way of thinking of the players who don't want to pay for an unfinished product?

Lots of YOU say that we don't want to pay because we want everything FREE.I say ladies and gentlemen,WTF?.
If we're not going to pay, there's some LOGICAL reasons:

1-Most used quote: "I'm not going to pay for an unfinished product,i love the game,but i don't feel like paying it right now.
2-"My friends are going to stop playing,so why playing alone,when playing with friends is funnier?"
3-"Ill just wait to version 2.0 AKA the retail version of the game."

With this, yes, i understand that NO ONE FORCES US to stay,the thing is, WE, the ones who are not agree with this fees,we also LOVE FF series,hell,we also love Final Fantasy XIV and we want to play it too,but not with this prices.

Summarizing,i think it's a matter of a way thinking of the players,seems some players don't care to pay 15 Euros/12 Dollars(there's even some players in this forums that said that they would even pay 20 dollars,like if they dump money.) and others that they don't pay 15 Euros/12 dollars,because they want something worth,finished,something called a Final Fantasy.

PD:English is not my mother tongue,so please,be kind.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.]

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Googled, Yahoo'd... sorry man, your going to have to help me out, is there a search engine your using im not?

A better compromise IMO would be to make a super ultra discounted bulk deal. Like, buy a year's subscription for $6/mo, 6 month sub for $9/mo, or pay $12/mo recurring

It'd be nice to pay that small an amount, but then they might really need the 13 bucks and I doubt you know how much it costs to run an MMO.

well, again it depends on the marketing team lol....do they confident if $12 is worth of it or not...that would be revealed after patch 1.20...

Yoshi said the game was 50% complete BEFORE 1.19 patch, with the 1.19 + 1.20 patches we'll see improved market wards, /search system and a complete battle reform. IT IS ready to be billed at full price because it basicly is 75-80% complete game after 1.20. All thats left is a facelift on the UI, maps and engine + jobs.

I will happily pay my £8.99 a month

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

It's the principle of paying full price for a half-finished game.

I'm sure for most of them, paying half price for a half-finished game is just fine, as evidenced by the Blue Garter poll.

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When does Blue Garter = Entirety of FFXIV community? The gamers that thrive there, are hardcore elitest players. To them thier opinion is final. I've spent 7 years on thier forums with FFXI to have formed that impression of them.


We've been spoiled by getting free play time for a year. I'm not saying We should have been paying this whole time, but it's hard to accept a change when that change is on us.

We wouldn't be having this conversation if SE shut down the servers then came back up live with 1.20.
We woulnd't be here if SE launched FFXIV in it's current state.

I'm looking forward to the start of the billing? Why because I know the people that are still there enjoy playing the game as much as I do.

the sad thing is a poll asking how much people wan to pay is very inacurate if anything

people will always opt to pay the least ammount possible, if not go free if given the option

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Why in the world would anyone on a budget want to pay 12 bucks a month for this game when there are other options like Star Wars, Guild Wars II, and Diablo III out there?

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If 12 bucks breaks someones budget, how do they justify paying $60.00+ for a game to begin with?

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

the sad thing is a poll asking how much people wan to pay is very inacurate if anything

people will always opt to pay the least ammount possible, if not go free if given the option

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Exactly. This has nothing to do with principles. Gamers are not exactly honor-bound paragons of virtue and chivalry.

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

So again. Ask yourself. What in 1.19 and 1.20 is missing from a solid starting point of a newly launched game?

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1. Bland copy/paste environments.
2. Barely functional LS management options.
3. Unintuitive party search features that no one uses.
4. Server lag.
5. UI lag.
6. Bad UI design
7. No mailbox system.
8. Unwieldy market wards system that discourages players from participating in the economy. (should be better in 1.20, though)
9. Inability to display a lot of players on the screen at once.
10. Overtaxation of hardware and unoptimized performance.
11. Journey from rank 1-50 doesn't adequately prepare a player for end-game content.
12. Not enough end-game content.
13. Not enough mid-game content.
14. Battle system is needs a lot of work in terms of balance and function.
15. Battle system is not as deep and strategic as it should be.
16. Battle system still suffers from animation lock/lag.

Among other things.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.]

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Still waiting sir. Man these mainstream seach engines must suck. Um Help?

Honestly, what difference does it make paying full than paying half? You guys are making this more complicated than it is. Either you don't have 12 dollars or you don't.

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Originally Posted by Ava

A better compromise IMO would be to make a super ultra discounted bulk deal. Like, buy a year's subscription for $6/mo, 6 month sub for $9/mo, or pay $12/mo recurring

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I would buy a year's sub for $6/mo in a bulk purchase, easy.

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

If 12 bucks breaks someones budget, how do they justify paying $60.00+ for a game to begin with?

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1. This game is currently selling for around 30 bucks on Amazon, and it's free if you can grab a buddy pass.
2. 12 bucks a month over time adds up to a lot of money.

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

When does Blue Garter = Entirety of FFXIV community? The gamers that thrive there, are hardcore elitest players. To them thier opinion is final. I've spent 7 years on thier forums with FFXI to have formed that impression of them.

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They're not, but if even the hardcores are averse to paying $12 a month, why would any casual players be more willing to do so?

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Originally Posted by ArcheustheWise

Still waiting sir. Man these mainstream seach engines must suck. Um Help?

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Try harder. I'll give you a hint. Google + game + boycott + fail

I'm sorry, but If your still complaining about the use of the UI After playing this game for a whole year with multiple classes at rank 50, I'm pretty sure its not unreasonable to surmise that you've found your way around it by now.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

[*] This game is currently selling for around 30 bucks on Amazon

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Damn, on the UK Amazon it sells for £3-5 lol

I'd go for that.
Heck, a lot of people would probably stay. You'd turn a profit in the long run.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

[*] This game is currently selling for around 30 bucks on Amazon, and it's free if you can grab a buddy pass.[*]12 bucks a month over time adds up to a lot of money.

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Sort of. It adds up to around $150/yr. Similar to what you pay monthly for car insurance, internet/tv, cell phone, electricity, and so on.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

They're not, but if even the hardcores are averse to paying $12 a month, why would any casual players be more willing to do so?

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Because most casual players aren't filled with an overwhelming sense of entitlement. They just want to have fun. And if this game isn't fun for them at $12 it certainly isn't going to be fun for them at $5. It's not like the game becomes magically more fun for people that don't like it as soon as the price drops.

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Originally Posted by nasomi

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They will after the billing cycle begins.

I am fine with paying right now but it comes down to what SE wants to do?

Do they aim to please a loyal fans? or do they aim to please bigger crowd?
If let's say there are 10.000 current active players, 5000 left during P2P session, if halving the sub fee will retain another 5000, they will still generate same amount of money, please alot more people, and still be able to bring friends to try this game out because the subs fee are below what other MMO charge.

Also, Yoshi-P said that as of 1.19, the game was at that 50% people are raging about.

He also said that as of 1.20, the game will be much, much closer to the 100% since they are fixing the market search, player search, party functions and more.

So basically at 1.20, the game will be up to what the company considers "Launch Standards" at which time they will start charging.

It doesn't matter if you agree or not. This is the business move by SE and there is really nothing either side can do about it.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

I'm sorry, but If your still complaining about the use of the UI After playing this game for a whole year with multiple classes at rank 50, I'm pretty sure its not unreasonable to surmise that you've found your way around it by now.

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That argument in no way justifies a fundamentally flawed UI. No paying customer should be expected via the status quo to have to "find my way around" the failings of a service/content provider and be satisfied with that.

Not sure if my vote counts as I'd willingly pay the $12 at this point, but I do think they'd get more people at $5 a month, and having actual subscription numbers would probably look fairly good to the accounting division. I wonder which option would actually net them a greater overall revenue, I suspect it's probably closer to $5 than to $12, though.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Why in the world would anyone pay for anything if they didn't have to?

Like I said, gamers are all talk. They will sit there and weep and gnash teeth but when it comes down to the bottom line, they will pay to play when the time comes. It's been proven time and again.

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Wait what??? Can you give me an example of situations such as this? Where a game goes free trial for over a year then start charging for an unfinished product? You're not talking about people saying they're going to quit right, because at least the game they're playing is a finished product and they're complaining about patches.

Oh not to mention, a re-release of the game too.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

1. Bland copy/paste environments.
2. Barely functional LS management options.
3. Unintuitive party search features that no one uses.
4. Server lag.
5. UI lag.
6. Bad UI design
7. No mailbox system.
8. Unwieldy market wards system that discourages players from participating in the economy. (should be better in 1.20, though)
9. Inability to display a lot of players on the screen at once.
10. Overtaxation of hardware and unoptimized performance.
11. Journey from rank 1-50 doesn't adequately prepare a player for end-game content.
12. Not enough end-game content.
13. Not enough mid-game content.
14. Battle system is needs a lot of work in terms of balance and function.
15. Battle system is not as deep and strategic as it should be.
16. Battle system still suffers from animation lock/lag.

Among other things.

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3/4s of that list is goign to be in 1.20

-Delivery System
-Auction house Functions
- X2 Dungeons, X2 Primals, GC Missions= enough End game Content
- Hardware is not SE's fault they just tell you what you need for the game
- Mid Game Content= Materia/Grind/Sidequest/Main Storyline missions= Enough Mid- game Content
- Battle system is always being worked on and they sadid that should be finished by 1.21
- I Don't see much UI lag to be honest with you...
- Animation Lock I give ya
- There's Some Server lag but not game breaking
- Class/battle Uniqueness will come in 1.21 ( not far away)
- Linkshell Functions also in 1.20 ( according to the time Grid)
- If your in a highly populated area of course you wont see everyone at once... FFXI was like this.
- Copy/Pasta I give ya too but its enjoyable never the less

Conclusion? Its worth the full price

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Originally Posted by nasomi

Sort of. It adds up to around $150/yr. Similar to what you pay monthly for car insurance, internet/tv, cell phone, electricity, and so on.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.]

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Car insurance, internet, cell phone, and electricity bills are much more essential services and thus are much more inelastic commodities (higher prices have a less dampening effect on demand).

Paying a similar amount for an unfinished game is hardly an essential service, and since luxury goods are more subject to being relatively elastic, a lower price point may end up actually generating more revenue for the business.

Also, LMAO @ being called a troll. Reinheart, you were right!

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Because most casual players aren't filled with an overwhelming sense of entitlement. They just want to have fun. And if this game isn't fun for them at $12 it certainly isn't going to be fun for them at $5. It's not like the game becomes magically more fun for people that don't like it as soon as the price drops.

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This is why I also outlined my views on the economics of the issue as it relates to revenue maximization for SE. There is a sliding scale that involves price and overall profitability that relates to just how valuable any given consumer finds this particular product and if the price accurately reflects the quality of said product and puts it in a favorable light when compared to the competition.

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Originally Posted by Teakwood

I wonder which option would actually net them a greater overall revenue, I suspect it's probably closer to $5 than to $12, though.

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Yes, this is the second part of my OP that is important, but not many people want to discuss the economics of it.

I'd be far more likely to pay if it was only $5-7. It is not that I think FFXIV is a horrible horrible thing that is no fun. But until the game has settled down with the big changes and fixes, I am only interested in playing it more casually and have more of a "try stuff out and observe" rather than a "dive on in" approach. But I want more MMO play time than that, and don't want to pay $30-ish a month for two MMO's, so it looks like I will be trading in my wand for a lightsaber come December rather than just wielding the wand part-time.

To me, starting billing now and at full price simply indicates that SE does not care about the size of their player base at this point. Personally though, I think it would be better to have a reduced fee simply to keep the population at a more decent level for those that wish to continue playing. And if they still want player feedback, I'd hope that they would want to keep their more critical and casual players that may be genuinely interested in the game but not enough to pay a full monthly fee.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Yes, this is the second part of my OP that is important, but not many people want to discuss the economics of it.

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This is actually valid, but I'm sure SE already has business analysts whose job is to specifically crunch the numbers on this stuff. I doubt they've been sitting there twiddling their thumbs all this time.

EDIT: also keep in mind that every player actually translates into a cost to keep things in operation. Would all those added players who would pay $5 justify the added cost of keeping them around?