Minfillia Speculation

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

I'm actually hoping that Minfilia is bound to the aetherial realm somehow

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As the images start coming out, that's something that popped into my head, as well. The hi-res art looks like it has her hair itself crystallizing or merging with it. The preview images all (so far) seem to have her floating and shoeless, as well. But this is the phase where I'm not allowed to speculate. I see an image here, I read a hint there, and suddenly my brain is going a malm a minute and I'm standing in traffic wearing (only) a darksteelfoil hat and begging passers by to assure me that it's just the heinous pixelation on the yalm-wide blown up prints making me think that the gemstone on Minfilia's new necklace is eerily familiar in shape (but not color).
It's an illusion caused by familiarity. A coincidence. Nothing more. Stop looking at it.

Honestly, it probably is just SE reusing assets. They're fond of that. The vast, vast majority of players wouldn't even recognize that pendant, so they're safe in reusing it.

I totally called it. Hydaelyn's Ascians you guys. And you all thought I was taking one whiff too many of the crackpot.

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

I totally called it. Hydaelyn's Ascians you guys. And you all thought I was taking one whiff too many of the crackpot.

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Well her name *is* Ascilia...

We will VERY likely be exploring the Antitower to find her. And I suggested this elsewhere already but if the Ascians/Zodiark can create Warriors of Darkness, what's to say Hydealyn can't create an Ascian of Light with Minfilia?

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

We will VERY likely be exploring the Antitower to find her.

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This is a certainty even the dungeon description screams of this.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

what's to say Hydealyn can't create an Ascian of Light with Minfilia?

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since Hydealyn is growing weaker so she might not have the power to grant her gift to another.

When we broke Midgardsormr bind on the blessing of light the power we got back was greater than when Midgardsormr binded the blessing of light in the first place as if Midgardsormr was testing us for what Hydealyn had planned.

In the 2.55 MSQ end Minfilia responds to Hydealyn with "NO!" but then goes long with what Hydealyn says

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

DISCLAIMER: This is the category of story development that I usually predict wrong. I see the truth for a second, very early, and wrongly dismiss it because bad flow or so lame. Like every time.

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I kind of think the MSQ is one FF-game's worth of story with a ton of interim arcs breaking it up, so we haven't actually progressed that far in two years. Look at something like Babylon 5 and how long that show took to get its actual villains out there. Hell, the main character didn't even show up until season 2.

Then again, if I were writing this, I would want to make sure the players themselves believed 110% that what they were doing up until the reveal was the only right choice, but only so that they'd truly empathize with the characters when it was revealed that everything they had been doing up until now was very much the wrong thing. Then again, I'm evil.

Minfilia's expression is interesting. She doesn't look like herself - so if her personality shifts considerably, too, that alone raises questions as to whether Hydaelyn's influence is truly so desirable after all.

Please make her evil so i can finally do what i always wanted to do and kill her for being so darn useless.

Why do so many people want Hydaelyn to be a 'bad thing' in some form?

I'm hoping, praying, that won't be the case. There have been so many 'grey and grey morality' stories lately that frankly, FFXIV with some semblance of absolute black and white is actually refreshing. And it still leaves room for greyer conflict, such as the whole thing in Ul'dah.

On the contrary, I think the black and white morality in FFXIV is it's worst point. That fans on the forums can find as much fault as we have with some of its more radical "white" moments is absolutely a problem. Where more carefully written stories will analyze the grey area in-depth, FFXIV has this nasty habit of simply jumping to all-too-specific conclusions and assuming everyone is naturally on board with it's "greater good" schtick.

There are serious issues with our current greater good, to the point where I've never been able to buy into if fully when usually that isn't an issue for me. Seriously. But as I've said before:

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Originally Posted by Fenral

I want my discomfort to be a sign that things are going to get shaken up, not that the director is an out-of-his-gourd nihilist.

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Originally Posted by Alisa180

Why do so many people want Hydaelyn to be a 'bad thing' in some form?

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It's not that people want Hydaelyn to be a "bad thing," it's just that it seems rather apparent that she's possessing Minfilia. Even if Minfilia went with it willingly, the Dude still does NOT abide! That is not the behavior of a benevolent, all-loving mother goddess! (See, this is why I hate dealing with deities...)

Seriously, just let me beat the shit outta some sense into her. That usually works in these kinds of stories.

Some people might want Hydaelyn to be "evil," but they're weird.

Even if she is a willing sacrifice, even if we all are, there's still grey area in portraying characters as simply being groomed for the time they will be called on to make the ultimate sacrifice. Many war stories by Japanese authors touch on this, as it enabled the use of kamikaze tactics (among other really-not-okay things) and played a huge role in Japan's strategy at the end of World War II, when pretty much everyone at the top but the Emperor himself was willing to fight on to the last man, to the point that military advisers actually staged a coup to keep Japan from surrendering after the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It failed, of course, but man would that have been a different history.

Technically that's research I did for another project, but it became relevant here fast. Just some sobering historical and cultural context for you.

We already see Hydaelyn 'playing favourites'. Her power is limited, yes, but she goes out of her way to protect the WoL and presumably the major Scions such as Minfilia...but most of the regular Scions perished during Livia's attack. Hydaelyn didn't intervene then - and if she did protect Minfilia and her gang somehow during that time then realistically the 'regular' Scions should be pretty uncomfortable if that is revealed.

Personal headcanon - Warrior of Light's echo allows access to alternate timelines of itself. When they talk about you facing a Primal by yourself, and then 7 others show up? That is you, you, you, you, you, you, you, and yourself. You are the Roegdyn, the Lalafell (and all the other races), the man, the woman, the caster, the melee (melee-ier?), the gatherer, the crafter, all of them. The Warrior of Light's explosive skill and power growth is because every "player" is adding a bit a power and knowledge to the rest through the echo.

EDIT: Way after the post I meant to be replying to, sorry.

I think context is important here. Our WoL is such a badass and has so much success, I think people sometimes forget that our team has been losing for a really, really long time. We have come into a war literally in its final stages where our side is on the cusp of defeat. Team Zodiark had total confidence their victory was assured. They had little concern when we turned up and why would they? How many WoL do you think Team Hydaelyn has thrown at them before and what has it actually done to stop them? What really is one more going to do? We are Hydaelyn's last trump card but they don't know that.

In ARR and in the ARR patches they underestimate us. That was part of our edge. We were a annoyance and possibly a tool. In 2.55 their first response to Nabriales death was to assume it was the Ascian's screw up rather than the WoL's achievement. Suddenly in HW they start to realise that this WoL is a problem and for the first time their plans actually seem threatened and now they start to scramble. In their complacency they let us get to strong, ignoring Hydaelyn's efforts to keep us alive long enough to stand on our own as her just being desperate. From where we are this looks like a change in the tide of the war.

However Hydaelyn is still on the ropes and our efforts haven't suddenly made her safe. Ironically all her efforts to protect us have left her weaker than ever. Simply put we can kick ass to the cows come home but if she fails its game over regardless. In that light, this war is something the WoL can't win just by themselves.

What I am expecting is Minfilia has put herself up to play defence, to keep Hydaelyn from failing while we are on the front lines. We are in a war and in one we have been losing. It's quite possible that what Minfilia has done, even if it is a sacrifice was necessary to keep Hydaelyn in the fight. She is taking one for the team.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

lot of stuff

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I think Hydaelyn trump card was to have midgardsormr test the WOL to see if we were worthy of the last of Hydaelyn power that she can bestow and using Minfinia escape the crystal (which i'm guessing is being corrupted by Zodiark) so that Hydaelyn(Minfinia) even in her very weak state can provide indirectly additional support.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

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If I'm correct, the only major Scion to have the Echo/Hydaelyn's blessing is Minfillia, and the WoL when they join. None of the other major ones had it. As well, Minfillia was not protected by Hydaelyn during Livia's attack, she was captured because she was the leader. Until this point as well the WoL seemed to be the only one to get a major buff out of it, though this might be a little bit more luck on our side (Hydaelyn didn't give us the crystals except maybe the first one, nor did she really guide us to them.)

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Originally Posted by Belhi

She is taking one for the team.

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Any good sports drama will inevitably examine the difference between "taking one for the team" and "taking yourself off the team." The former is something that can be recovered from by the next match, the latter usually provokes a lot of manly shouting back and forth, until the inevitable realization comes that you shouldn't push yourself too hard in this match if it means you won't be able to help in the next. Maybe you can make a comeback, but if the cost is too high, you lose the tournament anyway. And possibly your career in soccer/baseball/basketball/volleyball/swimming/etc.

If she just needs time on the bench, cool. If she's not coming back to the team, there will be manly shouting, at the very least.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

If she's not coming back to the team, there will be manly shouting, at the very least.

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My bet is from Thancred.

I'm thinking that, while this is pretty much in 'highdea' territory, what if we have actually *already* lost this war, in a way? The Ascians keep mentioning about how things 'once were'. What if that actually meant Hydaelyn as we know her is already gone? Maybe she had already started the process of becoming something else during the time that we didn't hear anything of her, until she called Minfillia away. Who, in her eagerness to no longer be a burden on the WoL and the other Scions, likely didn't even stop to think that something horribly wrong may have already happened with Hydaelyn?

Note the name of the patch. Maybe Hydaelyn was always destined to change. It's just a matter of exactly how she is supposed to. The Ascians have always been trying to influence things their own way. What if the reason why Hydaelyn invested so much into the WoL is because she knew that thanks to the Ascians, she would inevitably no longer be able to exist as is, and needed the WoL to steer the 'gears of change' towards a world free from the influence of the Ascians? Indeed, we now have a permanent means to destroy the Ascians. They can't change the world in their favor if they're GONE.

(Sure, when we regained the Blessing of Light, we may have heard Hydaelyn's voice again. But that could have just been us imagining Hydaelyn as we knew her. As far as I'm aware, we still haven't really heard anything of her status, nor has she directly intervened in our affairs since.)

But what of Minfillia? Well, she definitely looks like some sort of vessel. But I think that if Hydaelyn had begun the process of changing, she needed Minfillia to hide that fact from the Ascians until she can get the message to the WoL first. And what a clear message it'd be, especially if it turns out that she IS the new Hydaelyn. So that while we might have lost this war, we'd have a head start over the Ascians on the next, though very brief. Whatever the next war may be. What happens to her after? Who knows.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

As far as I'm aware, we still haven't really heard anything of her status, nor has she directly intervened in our affairs since.

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I'm not going to comment on the rest of it, but as to the quoted sentence, I agree. Just hearing her voice again doesn't tell us anything. I doubt she's suddenly in a much better condition than when we left her, just because we beat up a few primals and didn't rely on her for a month or two.

The scene where you finally hear he again felt really bittersweet to me, in the "yay, we succeeded, mom's back from the hospital! But oh no, mom still has stage 4 cancer and she's come home to die" type way.

I feel like I'm really mean but...I burst out laughing at the idea of Minfilia being taken over or drained by Hydaelyn because that technically means that she's been kidnapped again.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I feel like I'm really mean but...I burst out laughing at the idea of Minfilia being taken over or drained by Hydaelyn because that technically means that she's been kidnapped again.

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Again, this would only count if Minfilia herself didn't volunteer for this. My suspicion is that whatever it is, she did it willingly.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I feel like I'm really mean but...I burst out laughing at the idea of Minfilia being taken over or drained by Hydaelyn because that technically means that she's been kidnapped again.

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Hey now, Nabriales can totally kidnap me and I wouldn't be complaining.
I'm a horrible person and I'm not even sorry.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Again, this would only count if Minfilia herself didn't volunteer for this. My suspicion is that whatever it is, she did it willingly.

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Didn't she say 'NO!' in response to whatever Hydaelyn said to her back at the end of 2.0? Or am I misremembering? Either way she doesn't look particularly happy in the artwork...

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

Hey now, Nabriales can totally kidnap me.
I'm a horrible person and I'm not even sorry.

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Don't worry - I wouldn't mind being kidnapped by the new Emperor of Garlemald. So I, for one, won't judge. Heh. ;)

I wonder if his resemblance to Geralt of Rivia is intentional? Probably not, but...I like it.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Didn't she say 'NO!' in response to whatever Hydaelyn said to her back at the end of 2.0? Or am I misremembering? Either way she doesn't look particularly happy in the artwork

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during the end cut scene to 2.55 Hydaelyn says something to Minfillia to which she responses NO! but Minfillia still goes back into the tunnel

but Hydaelyn might have said something like "leave your companions"

I think the relationship between Minfillia and Hydaelyn will be like Iceheart and Shiva which seem symbiotic

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Originally Posted by Belhi

[Minfilia] is taking one for the team.

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Put in a less romantic context, if Minfilia isn't even in there anymore it's tantamount to suicide. We will never get her back. Even if Minfilia is a nigh-helpless piece of exposition spouting eye candy, she's one of ours, dammit! Hydaelyn can't give us free will and then ask us to relinquish it for the "greater good" when she feels it's necessary, turning one of our closest friends into her personal meat puppet! (Again, this is why I hate dealing with deities.)

I doubt it's that drastic. Minfilia is probably still in there, but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth - the whole "relinquishing your free will because I asked you to" and the fact Minfilia may be conscious but unable to express herself. Put that way, it's arguably worse.

... when you take away the romantic notions of self-sacrifice... it really gets less than glorious.

As for Hydaelyn using Minfilia as a meat puppet vessel to keep herself alive? Well, I'm not sure anything we do is going to change what happens. It seems to me that Hydaelyn is trying to fight entropy itself, something that cannot be overcome by the laws of reality. That's no reason to give up, mind, but that still doesn't change the futility of it.

Apropos of nothing, Sephirot confirmed to not be MSQ material? Sort of? In today's preview.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Apropos of nothing, Sephirot confirmed to not be MSQ material? Sort of? In today's preview.

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If anything it's confirmed that totally-not-Elidibus is upgraded from side-story to MSQ, since SE mentioned they wanted to have multiple storylines running in tandem for 3.X.

We're discussing it in the Live Letter thread.

But yeah, I'm really excited about the 3.2 answers about what exactly happened to Minfilia and what Hydaelyn did when she summoned her. I'm more interested in that than actually seeing Minfilia again.

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Originally Posted by Ageofwar

I think the relationship between Minfillia and Hydaelyn will be like Iceheart and Shiva which seem symbiotic

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Am hoping for a more "There is no Dana, only Zuul" kinda arrangement.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Didn't she say 'NO!' in response to whatever Hydaelyn said to her back at the end of 2.0? Or am I misremembering? Either way she doesn't look particularly happy in the artwork...

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Yeah. She then stopped and thought for a bit before running off. It could very easily be that Hydaelyn told her that something bad was about to happen ie. a cry for help and Minfilia ran off to deal with it however she could. If she thought Hydaelyn was up to no good why do you think she would tell us nothing? If it was a case that something was wrong that she could deal with it makes perfect sense that she wouldn't tell us to avoid distracting us. Our role in the greater affairs of Eorzea is much more important than hers as she said. We are the rallying point and the beacon. Our role is too important to risk being sidelined.

Am I the only one that considers Minfilia useful? >_>;

She might not be the "super hero" stereotype using flashy skills, but she's got contacts and leadership. Scions by their own would be wasted power and lost.

No I always considered Minfilia valuable. Its just her role in ARR hasn't been a glamorous one and in a story its hard to make a manager seem important. In most cases, a manager's role doesn't stand out because if a manager is doing their job right then you should have very few things getting in the way of you doing your work. Their role is to make sure everything operates smoothly and keeps on task.

Considering the fact the Scions did have a well organised and effective operation with quite a large workforce at several points, I'd say she did her task admirably. However in a story that's not something that can usually be explained to a viewer in an interesting way and so Minfilia ended up looking like baggage rather than the one making sure all the Archons worked effectively as a group and that the Scions resources, logistics and information was current and maintained.

I think someone else had already mentioned but i think Hydelayn will use Minfilia as a vessel and actually take on physical form, which.... would be awesome :D

I won't mind them replacing Minfilia for Hydaelyn i'm cool with that would be quite interesting to be honest :D

If Minfillia is designated to be the "Chosen One" and WoL is the literal warrior of light, what about the other people in the world with the Echo? Are they essentially just batteries for Hydaelyn's plans for Minfillia and WoL?

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Originally Posted by Alisa180

Why do so many people want Hydaelyn to be a 'bad thing' in some form?

I'm hoping, praying, that won't be the case. There have been so many 'grey and grey morality' stories lately that frankly, FFXIV with some semblance of absolute black and white is actually refreshing. And it still leaves room for greyer conflict, such as the whole thing in Ul'dah.

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I feel similar. There is plenty of grey throughout the city states. I'd like to have at some of those we side with be actually good, and not ambiguous. But taste is personal.

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Originally Posted by Dalvy

If Minfillia is designated to be the "Chosen One" and WoL is the literal warrior of light, what about the other people in the world with the Echo? Are they essentially just batteries for Hydaelyn's plans for Minfillia and WoL?

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Nah, there's something more to the Echo, since it's pretty certain the Ascians have it too. Unless you're of the belief Zodiark and Hydaelyn are one being in which case your theory there works and is incredibly creepy and I kinda like it.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Our role in the greater affairs of Eorzea is much more important than hers as she said. We are the rallying point and the beacon. Our role is too important to risk being sidelined.

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And this right here is the entire problem with Final Fantasy XIV's narrative. We're so powerful that the powerless masses see us as "hope," but those around us have their self-worth beaten down one ilm at a time. Because we're just that much more capable, more important, than they are. They just aren't as necessary as we are. Hell, it's already text in a number of quests (but please don't make me quote them one by one), and subtext in a lot more.

Maybe it's a teensy, tiny problem when the hero is that much better than everyone else?

This somwhat reminds me of Soul Edge vs Soul Calibur honestly, soul calibur claims it seems to be goodness and light while soul edge is viewed as and acts like evil and darkness.

In the end they /both/ turn out to be dangerous body possessing villians that needed to be destroyed. It's possible that we are being used and it has been said that if we knew the whole truth the scions and ascians would not be enemies.. I would not be surprised if Minfilia becomes a host for the dying mother crystal, it might very well mean she could become an unwilling villian sometime in the future..

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Originally Posted by Fenral

And this right here is the entire problem with Final Fantasy XIV's narrative. We're so powerful that the powerless masses see us as "hope," but those around us have their self-worth beaten down one ilm at a time. Because we're just that much more capable, more important, than they are. They just aren't as necessary as we are. Hell, it's already text in a number of quests (but please don't make me quote them one by one), and subtext in a lot more.

Maybe it's a teensy, tiny problem when the hero is that much better than everyone else?

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It would help if the scenario writers actively made the NPC's get off their asses and do shit for once. Instead of ringing the WoL hotline.

Most of the time it's every country going "I would love to help but I'd rather do nothing instead".