3.2 PvP: Feast Game Mode Discussion Thread.

Iirc it says whichever party member does the most damage to the supply box recieves the buff/item. Curious as to how healrs are suppose to get the healing kit from it.

Unless,of course, you can exchange buffs amongst your team.

Either way, right from the start the game it sounds like a race to defeat a PvE object.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

Either way, right from the start the game it sounds like a race to defeat a PvE object.

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Hopefully they have next to no HP, then it's less of a PvE thing, and more of a dash to pick up the Rocket Launcher.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Hopefully they have next to no HP, then it's less of a PvE thing, and more of a dash to pick up the Rocket Launcher.

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What I dislike more than that is that the first actual PvP clash after the box will never be on equal footing. What's the point otherwise

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Originally Posted by Atreus

What I dislike more than that is that the first actual PvP clash after the box will never be on equal footing. What's the point otherwise

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That depends, the map looks like it will have three sections, a Red and Blue side, with a central area (perhaps more, but I see three distinct circular arenas so far). If the kits spawn in your "area", then at the start things should be pretty evenly matched. The team that remembers the kits mid-battle will then be the ones that gain an advantage.

I hope that the kits themselves are actually unique, rather than generic. There are four types, I'd hope they're labeled as such when they're on the battlefield. I wouldn't want to have a generic kit that will RNG me an Offensive Kit when I really need a Medical Kit.

EDIT:

Looking at the previews a bit more, the map actually seems fairly large.
http://i.imgur.com/BPjH4va.png
That's a ramp going round, right? Up and round, no less...

Wonder if we'll drop into a middle skirmish area, with a "spawn" area with all our Kits or something... Pretty worried about team members just wasting Kits now...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

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Yeah you're right. It's a lot we can't confirm until it's out. I'm just hoping that it would be a little more about map control to earn the boxes before they pop or are broken, than a race to get them before even fighting.

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Originally Posted by Houston009

Iirc it says whichever party member does the most damage to the supply box recieves the buff/item. Curious as to how healrs are suppose to get the healing kit from it.

Unless,of course, you can exchange buffs amongst your team.

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I got the impression that the buffs are applied to the entire team, and the type of buff coming out of the box is either random or determined by the number of medals dropped from a defeated player. It should be fairly balanced regardless of who attacks it and what's inside it.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

What I dislike more than that is that the first actual PvP clash after the box will never be on equal footing. What's the point otherwise

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I don't think that this is going to be a big issue. They weren't 100% clear in the live letter about it, but the way boxes are handled does not seem random. I got the impression that the types of boxes dropped and when they are dropped, is directly tied to player actions and performance. For example, if you score a certain number of medals off of a dead player, poof, a box spawns. Either that, or the type of box that spawns will be tied to player performance. I can't confirm that with certainty, yet, but when they said that the number of medals dropped by a defeated player would have "various effects" I got suspicious that this is what they were talking about.

It would make sense too. IF it works this way, the boxes would be a way of gaining momentum or initiating a comeback. The team who did the killing would have the advantage (unless the dead guy can respawn and get their ass back there fast enough), but the fact that either team can win it makes it pretty fair, and a good way of turning the tables.

Thinking about it, perhaps it would be better for them to have more HP... That way it becomes more of a tactical choice; You can start whacking on a box, but then you might get "ambushed" by your opponents...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Thinking about it, perhaps it would be better for them to have more HP... That way it becomes more of a tactical choice; You can start whacking on a box, but then you might get "ambushed" by your opponents...

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Yeah, but that's what Slaughter was. IMO, and I think many share my sentiment, Slaughter as a game mode blew chunks compared to the more traditional game modes like "Team Deathmatch", "CTF", or even Seize.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Looking at the previews a bit more, the map actually seems fairly large.
http://i.imgur.com/BPjH4va.png
That's a ramp going round, right? Up and round, no less...

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Probably two different size maps for 4v4 and 8v8.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Thinking about it, perhaps it would be better for them to have more HP... That way it becomes more of a tactical choice; You can start whacking on a box, but then you might get "ambushed" by your opponents...

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The side nodes at Markets, Manors, and Sun Temple would be more fitting. Only way to claim those nodes was to basically eliminate the other team first. That I would be ok with.

If speedhackers, Noct astrologians, noclip hackers, and summoners are not addressed with 3.2, then this "competitive" PvP will be nothing more than a joke.

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Originally Posted by pushin_tin

If speedhackers, Noct astrologians, noclip hackers, and summoners are not addressed with 3.2, then this "competitive" PvP will be nothing more than a joke.

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Most of this I'm sure won't be addressed so I guess it's a joke then lol. There will always be hackers. Maybe they will adjust astro but I don't see the need to do anything to summoners here. They are much weaker in smaller instances like this where they can't hide behind a sea of teammates like in frontlines. Healers will have to babysit them so hard.

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

Most of this I'm sure won't be addressed so I guess it's a joke then lol. There will always be hackers. Maybe they will adjust astro but I don't see the need to do anything to summoners here. They are much weaker in smaller instances like this where they can't hide behind a sea of teammates like in frontlines. Healers will have to babysit them so hard.

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Could have sworn yoshi said balance will be looked at after the streamed live feast competition/tournament? I'm sure it'll be addressed before 3.25.

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Originally Posted by P4X0R10N

Could have sworn yoshi said balance will be looked at after the streamed live feast competition/tournament? I'm sure it'll be addressed before 3.25.

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I'm not so sure. Speed / Noclip hackers will probably be high up on their priority list, but job balancing issues are usually dead smack at the bottom.

People tend to forget that FFXIV is 90% PvE. PvP is only 10% (and that's being generous). I highly doubt that SE will make any adjustments to specific job actions / traits / stats just because of PvP, because it's not their primary focus. That's why I get a laugh when people get into fights over how broken Summoners and Astrologians are. SE will never "fix" them, because they function they way they were intended to function in PvE. Further, the balancing issues are difficult to tackle in the first place, because the balance changes depending on the game mode.

For example, in Seize, Smn's are very powerful, but most of that power comes from their ability to kill from a distance while hiding behind a horde of party members. This is not the case in smaller game modes like Wolves Den. They drop like flies because they have nowhere to hide and get ganked from the word go. Right now, Seize is the most popular form of PvP, so it would make sense to adjust them, but what happens when Feast comes out? SE would have to adjust them again because they would be tremendously under-powered in that environment. These are back and forth issues that SE can't really fix (short of banning certain jobs from PvP).

What Yoshi is likely referring to when he talks about balancing is actual in-match fixes. For example, adjustments to the Hp bar of the supply boxes, spawn timers, the degree of vulnerability provided by the "culling time" or "heavy medal" debuffs, the amount of medals dropped per kill, etc. IF we're lucky, speed hackers and noclips will be patched sometime in the future, but what we can expect to see during the pre-season of Feast is a series of hotfixes to the actual game-mode itself.

Februs, I think they will be watching job balance. They do currently have the ability to adjust effectiveness in PvP areas.

Remember the classes and jobs each have different damage dealt, physical and magic vulnerability modifiers since 2.4 and they can change ability/trait effects and durations in PvP areas.

If they think Warriors are bursting to hard, they can decrease the damage dealt modifier.

If tanks are too tough, physical/magic vulnerability can be adjusted.

So they are adding things that require thinking/brainpower... Omg I already dread the horror of the random pug parties I'll be in. Seize have mostly been frustrating 'cause people don't use their brains and only care about chasing/kills (At least on Chaos. On Mana the retard level was significantly lower).

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

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That is true; however, having that ability does not mean that they will/can use it.

The problem is with maintaining a sustained balance across multiple game modes. Take my Smn example. They're powerful in Seize because they basically exploit the game mode's size. SE could adjust this in the PvP setting and nerf the job (maybe reducing their effective range or potency) without effecting their PvE stats. However, if they did, how would Smn play in Wolves Den and Feast? Awfully. They'd get slaughtered. People would complain, and SE would have to adjust it again. Back and forth.

The easiest way around this would be to store multiple setting parameters for the job depending on what game mode you are playing (IE: SMN plays in setting A for Seize. SMN plays in setting B for Feast, etc). However, SE does not have the capacity to do this. Not only would creating and storing multiple system settings for every job be a lot of work (and I'm pretty sure we all know what SE's attitude to that would be), but we have been flat out told that the game does not have the system storage for it. Keep in mind that SE refused to allow us to store our action points separately for each job for this exact reason. It's also, presumably, why we don't have PvP specific hotbars. System memory is limited. Even if SE does commit to making balancing decisions for certain jobs (War... I'm looking at you), the odds are good that those adjustments will either be small or shared across multiple game modes to avoid stretching the capacity of the game.

Februs, Duty Commenced 10, which aired today, stated that they will make class balance/changes prior to 3.25. So there you have it straight from the horses mouth. = D

can't wait for the game to turn into tanks stack vit since it gives attack power and then feed all the medals to the tank so he never dies

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Originally Posted by P4X0R10N

Februs, Duty Commenced 10, which aired today, stated that they will make class balance/changes prior to 3.25. So there you have it straight from the horses mouth. = D

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I'm not convinced lol. Firstly, the only job adjustments that they mentioned were for PvE, not PvP. Now, they did say that they would be using the Pre-season times as a way of evaluating job actions and balancing issues, but ... They also said they'd be carefully monitoring the forums and look for player feedback. When I read that I doubled over with hysterical laughter.

Feast has a very "E-Sports" vibe to it, so I wouldn't be surprised if they did take this opportunity to take a more committed attitude to making sure it works. Unfortunately, they have a long history of doing the exact opposite. I realize this is going to sound extremely critical, but this wouldn't be the first time that they've made grandiose promises just before they turn a blind eye to the problems. The PvP community has been waiting for a long time for them to do anything that we have requested. Q times are still awful, and the closest thing to PvP balancing that we've ever seen is when they locked Cleric's stance out of PvP.

For most of us, we have been waiting YEARS for them to fix even the simplest of PvP issues. No one would like it more than me if SE to proves me wrong, but after such a long time of us screaming at a brick wall for change and getting no response, I think it's fair for us to be skeptical. When it comes to SE making promises for PvP, I take it with a grain of salt. I would love for what they said to be on the level, but I'll believe it when I see it.

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Originally Posted by Potatoes

can't wait for the game to turn into tanks stack vit since it gives attack power and then feed all the medals to the tank so he never dies

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You don't have to worry about this. The "Heavy Medal" debuff will ensure that Tanks can die rapidly if they attain too many medals. It will most certainly be a tactic to have a Tank load up on as many medals as they can and pop their strongest buffs (I can see Hallowed Ground getting a lot of use in this game mode), but they'll run out of defensive buffs eventually. The Heavy medal debuff stays until they die and scales with the amount of medals they have. So loading up all your medals on the Tank is a huge gamble that can backfire quickly if they run out of defense. Further, having a lot of medals makes them a big target, and it will be impossible for them to pick up more while under constant attack.

The part where your ilvl syncs to 150 still bothers me.... Are they ignoring morale again, or did you mention it and i didnt see it. Cause if they are, PvP gear (which is supposedly for PVP) will be no different from PvE gear again. It supposed to give you a bit of an advantage no?

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Originally Posted by WolfKid

The part where your ilvl syncs to 150 still bothers me.... Are they ignoring morale again, or did you mention it and i didnt see it. Cause if they are, PvP gear (which is supposedly for PVP) will be no different from PvE gear again. It supposed to give you a bit of an advantage no?

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So far, SE has not mentioned ANYTHING about the much debated morale stat ... which kind of irks me.

My first instinct is to assume that morale will work the same way it currently does with Front Lines. That is, morale will apply to your stats before the level sync. Meaning, the Rank 50 PvP set will have a slight advantage in that they are tuned for PvP. Det and Crit, skill speed / spell speed will be at cap, and Acc and parry will be lower. Basically, wearing the PvP set will make you as strong as you possibly can be when sync'd at 150.

That said, the PvP set will by no means be necessary to reach those caps. Most of the ilvl 190 gear also meets the stat caps (as long as you're using the right mix of accessories), and the 210 sets definitely do (again, in the right combination). Given that the 210 sets are super easy to get now, PvP players won't have any significant stat advantages ... which is kind of dumb.

Personally, I think that this is a HUGE mistake on SE's part. I realize that SE wants to make things as "fair" as possible, but Feast is going to be a highly competitive game mode. Hardcore PvP'ers should not be punished for being hardcore and putting in the time and effort it takes to give themselves every possible advantage, especially considering it is a small advantage.

The stat boost of the PvP armour at lvl 210 is not all that much higher than then the PvE 210 armour. The only difference in most cases is a slight increase to Det and Crit over Acc. It's definitely noticeable if you run into a pre-made with full spec'd outfits ... but those kinds of players are likely going to beat the pants off of casual PvE'ers anyway, so what's the point of denying them the stat? They're still going to win. Given that there will now (basically) be a league for PvP with the Ranked game modes and Seasons, pre-made PvP groups will become far more common as it is. Morale and proper PvP armour sets would go miles in making the game mode more competitive as teams try to scramble to reach the top rankings of the Diamond League. Given that competition seems to be the whole point of having Seasons in the first place, it would be nice if SE stopped trying to take the pillow fight approach to "fair play."

The one hope for Morale is the "pre-season" adjustments that they said they're planning to make. SE (supposedly, since we got this from the North America dev team ... yup) stated that they will be using the pre-season time to monitor the game mode and decide on necessary adjustments. A lot of players have taken this to mean that they will be balancing the actual jobs. Whereas, that could be true, I think that it's far more likely for them to be adjusting the game mode itself, such as supply box hp bars, debuff timers, spawn timers, etc. What I'm really hoping for is to see them also make an adjustment to the ranked game modes to increase the level cap and restore the Morale bonus. It's not likely, but it is what I would definitely like to see. IF, hypothetically, it did happen, it would probably not happen until the second pre-season at the earliest (in order to give newly interested players time to catch up in ranks), but it would be nice to see eventually.

Greetings fellow PvPers,

We have some additional details regarding The Feast to share with you.

During the Letter from the Producer LIVE, we mentioned that only the opposing team can pick up medals that are dropped from your teammates. However, in situations where the medals are not picked up within a certain amount of time, then they will be returned to their owner.

As The Feast will be played with an item level sync it will be treated the same as Seal Rock, where morale and the effects of materia will not be taken into account. Additionally, in order to open it up to a wider range of players, consumable items such as food and potions cannot be used.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Greetings fellow PvPers,

We have some additional details regarding The Feast to share with you.

During the Letter from the Producer LIVE, we mentioned that only the opposing team can pick up medals that are dropped from your teammates. However, in situations where the medals are not picked up within a certain amount of time, then they will be returned to their owner.

As The Feast will be played with an item level sync it will be treated the same as Seal Rock, where morale and the effects of materia will not be taken into account. Additionally, in order to open it up to a wider range of players, consumable items such as food and potions cannot be used.

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Interesting, though why keep Morale in the game at all if it continues to serve very little purpose? Why keep PvP Materia in the game if it continues to not have much use?

Also, are there any updates regarding Frontlines in the upcoming patch?

can we get duels? i mean really coming, i plenty of fc members that would like duel.

P.S. yes we go into FL to 1v1 on the side of the map but we shouldn't have to.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

As The Feast will be played with an item level sync it will be treated the same as Seal Rock, where morale and the effects of materia will not be taken into account. Additionally, in order to open it up to a wider range of players, consumable items such as food and potions cannot be used.

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So are we getting a level 60 Wolves Den any time soon?
Because I have a stock of PvP Materia and morale gear just waiting...

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Greetings fellow PvPers,

We have some additional details regarding The Feast to share with you.

During the Letter from the Producer LIVE, we mentioned that only the opposing team can pick up medals that are dropped from your teammates. However, in situations where the medals are not picked up within a certain amount of time, then they will be returned to their owner.

As The Feast will be played with an item level sync it will be treated the same as Seal Rock, where morale and the effects of materia will not be taken into account. Additionally, in order to open it up to a wider range of players, consumable items such as food and potions cannot be used.

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Can you please clarify if this includes icarus wings and regain feathers?

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

As The Feast will be played with an item level sync it will be treated the same as Seal Rock, where morale and the effects of materia will not be taken into account.

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When are Morale and PVP materia going to be removed from the game? It's pretty clear that there is no intention of ever using them again.

is it even possible to kill an AST in a 4vs4 match? c.c,,

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Originally Posted by Tint

is it even possible to kill an AST in a 4vs4 match? c.c,,

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Very much so. ^^

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

As The Feast will be played with an item level sync it will be treated the same as Seal Rock, where morale and the effects of materia will not be taken into account.

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Whats the point of level 60 pvp gear then if we cant even use it in this new mode.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Greetings fellow PvPers,

We have some additional details regarding The Feast to share with you.

During the Letter from the Producer LIVE, we mentioned that only the opposing team can pick up medals that are dropped from your teammates. However, in situations where the medals are not picked up within a certain amount of time, then they will be returned to their owner.

As The Feast will be played with an item level sync it will be treated the same as Seal Rock, where morale and the effects of materia will not be taken into account. Additionally, in order to open it up to a wider range of players, consumable items such as food and potions cannot be used.

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Why do you give us crafted items for PvP if your not going to include them in your new game modes?? Also, whats the point of craftable PvP gear if its not up to date with new gear or even slightly below like PvE craftable gear??

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Originally Posted by TheWaywardWind

Interesting, though why keep Morale in the game at all if it continues to serve very little purpose? Why keep PvP Materia in the game if it continues to not have much use?

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Probably because
1) it's easier to leave them in that take them out
2) it's worthless now, but maybe one day they'll come back to it

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Originally Posted by Simbei

Probably because
1) it's easier to leave them in that take them out
2) it's worthless now, but maybe one day they'll come back to it

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"One day"

It's been irrelevant for like two YEARS. You can only take so long to do something before people lose interest and move on.

wait so theres no ranking for 8 vs 8?? reason i like frontlines is because theres more people to fight lol

seems kinda wierd they would even have a 8 vs 8 mode if not gonna have rankings for it = =

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Originally Posted by Atreus

Can you please clarify if this includes icarus wings and regain feathers?

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wow, icarus wings/regain feathers are consumables. This sucks for you Atreus lol

Honestly, I think it's about time they just removed stats from PvP... Just give everyone the same by default, so we get truly equal matches... Leave the gear as purely cosmetic and change the materia merchant to be similar to the Diadem merchant...

In a similar vein... Can we drop AP? Since it is seemingly impossible for AP to be based on Job, just remove it... Just make it so all the skills are maxed out, rather than giving people with Rank 50 an obvious advantage over those with Rank 1. I'm honestly sick of having to reset AP every time I switch Job in PvP... Just drop the system, it adds nothing... As a Rank 50 with several Jobs, it's just annoying. As a Rank 1, I imagine it just seems unfair...

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Originally Posted by azlewood

can we get duels? i mean really coming, i plenty of fc members that would like duel.

P.S. yes we go into FL to 1v1 on the side of the map but we shouldn't have to.

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Or this... Give us 1v1 duels already... You don't need to balance an Warrior verses a Black Mage, we'll balance that. If I'm on Black Mage and a Warrior wants to play, I'm perfectly capable of balancing that match in my head and refusing if I think I stand no chance. If he wants to be a douche and harass me for that, I can either blacklist the prick, or switch to a Job I know I can crush him on and see how he likes that.

It would be a lot of fun regardless, and potentially a good way to put PvP in the public eye, not to mention a great way to practice PvP. Just slap a toggle to prevent getting requests completely for people uninterested in PvP, and/or maybe have a certain PvP Rank requirement to send/accept 1v1 requests. 1v1s would be the perfect place for Morale/etc. to be relevant.