Job Alignment Chart

I don't suppose crafting and gathering could have alignments as well could they?

Ok, since this game doesn't actuly have "Evil" PCs, that makes the traditional scale useless. But here I go.

PLD= Lawful Good, Traditional "White Knight" who will do the right thing even at the cost of their lives.

DRK= Chaotic Good in every way. " Screw your laws, I AM THE LAW!" And promptly kills the criminal, the dirty cop, AND the Good Cop that tried to stop him.

DRG= Lawful Nutral, Soul Purpose is defending Ishguard fr Dragons, otherwise having no predefined purpose.

MNK, BRD, MCH= True Neutral, only things defining morality are personal creeds assuming they have any. (The fist of rhalger is defunct, and the temples of the seven lights/shadows are not as cut and dry as their names imply)

BLM,WHM,AST= Lawful Nuetral, subject only to mistic laws or forces that only they know/understand

WAR,SUM= Lawful Nuetral, Seek to control near uncontrolable forces of nature for the good of all but eternally at risk of self destruction.

SCH,NIN= Lawful Good, Guided by anchient laws and societal creeds that govern their traditions, training, and tasks with the focus of "Always protect you masters and people".

So yea, that's my take (and I have played all of them to 45+ with WAR, AST, and MNK being the only non 50+s)

And as for Vivi's question, All Gatherers are True Neutral, Crafters are Chaotic Good, their crafts are good for sociaty, but you're gonna need to cough up 1st. <Brass Blades shake down customer for Lolorito>

None of the jobs employed by the WoL are neutral or evil. They are ALL good since the WoL can only be good.

The cases of dark magics or dangerous techniques used by the likes of Dark Knights, Black Mages or Warriors are not exceptions. The job quest lines for these jobs are very explicit that you are tapping into dark and dangerous abilities and learning to control them for a good cause.

Black Magic is illegal not because it is evil but because people cannot be trusted to learn to wield it safely. It also once caused an Umbral Calamity, though ironically this was alongside White Magic, so if that makes Black Magic evil it also makes White Magic evil (this is actually why the Padjali are incredibly reluctant to teach anyone their art).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

I don't suppose crafting and gathering could have alignments as well could they?

---

I feel the Alchemist is Chaotic Good while the Blacksmith and Armorer is Lawful Good. Other is Neutral.

WoL is too "goody two-shoes" to be any form of neutral or evil unfortunately. I kinda wish we could make our characters less...."pure" regarding our actions in the story line.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alberel

None of the jobs employed by the WoL are neutral or evil. They are ALL good since the WoL can only be good.

---

That's a matter of debate which is entirely up to roleplaying. Just because you fight "evil" beings doesn't mean you're necessarily good. I consider my WoL to be a true neutral who does quests and fights powerful foes simply because they can, with no regard to whether it's good or evil to do so. Other's could argue that while their WoL is an evil character, they take on quests and help people simply because they are paid to do so, or because they want to prove that they're stronger than the other "evil" foes that exist. Just because you're a Warrior of "Light" doesn't make you instantly good. What matters in terms of good vs evil is the motivation behind doing an act.....

These are mostly all wrong.

For NIN you say:

Quote:

---

NIN: Neutral because they stole, but from the gov't enemies. They obey authority, but only if it helps them. Evil because of high DPS and independence.

---

The first half I agree with...but being independent and having high DPS doesn't make you evil. They do not kill/assassinate for fun/pleasure. NIN should be lawful evil. They follow a law/honor code of Shinobi, which the NIN from the AF quest disobeyed when he assisted the Empire destroy Doma.

Even thought Black Magic is only illegal because people can't be trusted with it, does not make it any less evil. If you have a knowing willingness to wield a power which is against the law, that you purposely use despite it being illegal, it is 'bad/evil' according to society. Most things that are illegal in the real word are illegal because people can't be trusted. Some kinds of murder are arguably justifiable, HOWEVER . ALL murder is illegal because people can't be trusted if 'some murder' was legal. Same goes for black magic in FFXIV. It's not inherently evil, but it's usually (though not always) used for destruction therefore it's banned.

Story wose Nutral IS actually possible as nutral isnt a disqualifying trait for a hero. Nutrality would be supported by the fact that no matter where we are we're outsiders with no national alligence. Even when enlisted in a grand company they courted US to join and we still serve under the "mercenary branch" that all adventurers go to.

So I'd go aa far as to say not only are we incapable of being truely evil, but by acting in Hydaelyn's behalf rather than an individual power means we are, by default adherently, true nutral.

I could be wrong, but aren't (current) black mages actively siphoning aether from the land to fuel their spells?

White mages seems like they're borrowing aether from the Elementals.

Although both did actively drain the land's aether in a previous era

I can see these are based on someone who hasn't played through any of the story quests, here would be my intepretation after playing through more

Paladin:Lawful, some are good, some are right bastards but all are bound to a code. But there are plenty of Right bastards who see only the most limited of things. You as the Outsider show the failings of Law over righteousness. You are by your nature in the story a force of chaos and Good.

White Mage: The White Mages of old broke the world with their arrogance. The Padjal are hidebound in their Traditions more Lawful than anything else but occasionally bordering on Good. You as the outsider of course are not beholden to either tradition and show the failings of such in the face of people unwilling to change. Similarly to the Paladin the WHite mage story is the story of a character who is a force of change and righteousness showing the failings of unbending law.

Summoner: The summoners of old were the Allagans who stole the powers of beast gods to do with that they pleased. They abused their powers and were killed. But you are not beholden to that story. You are a champion of the modern age using dark powers to save people from the wicked games of the Ascians. Once more you are a driving force breaking all the old rules to make a new story.. seeing a pattern?


Black Mage: The greatest aspect of destruction and the power of the void made manifest, and yet you use this to fix the sins of the past and present showing that morality is not born from power but from your actions.

Scholar: the Nym were betrayed and poisoned by their ancient enemies. Now you seek to rediscover their ancient Tradition and cure the lost Nymians and make the world a better place. This is the first one I would say is not in conflict with the past but seeks actual harmony with it, a lawful and good tendencies.


The Warrior's story is about teathering your Chaos to love. The Beast is strong in conflict but even stronger when it fights for its friends. This is not so much a statement on righteous vs unrighteous but balance between Chaos and order. The Balance is greater than the Sum of its parts.

Ninja, The ninja you learn from are honorable people who seek honorable masters who are excellent at stealth and trickery. You come to fight corrupt ninjas who are less because they sell their services rather than finding glory in service and having a master worthy to serve. You do not fight against the traditions of the Ninja but rather those who have perverted it.

Dragoon, you use stolen powers to perpetuate and endless and meaningless war, you are just another monster in a line of monsters, perhaps you will find redemption in a Post Heavensward story now that the Dragonsong war is over? Right now they come off as some mix of seflish and sociopathic. I'd say NE.

Machinist: Viva de Revolution! Like in the real world Technology overcame the power of the knight, the machinist is a story of chaos the rising of the peasants to become the equal of knights, in the end the Knights grudginly accept their aid, but will that be all? Will the peasants with guns now the equals of knights accept a place at the bottom?

Dark Knight: In the corrupt city of Got.. nation of Ishgard sometimes one must go outside the law to help the people. Dark Knights are pretty much a secret order of batmen. With a story that pushes the superior power coming from higher virtues vs raw revenge, along with completely mastering one's self in the face of constant suffering to forge yourself into a symbol of something greater.

Bard: you are the heir to an ancient tradition, bringing renewal to the world and your allies. Its less a point of morality and a much more personal play.

astrologian: Try to bring new ideas to the hidebound nation of isghard all the while dealing with those who are unwilling to see teh world change treating knowledge shared as knowledge stolen.

Monks are a shattered order betrayed from within who you learn from the last remaining teacher.. but he only cares about revenge and not about growth. You teach him the lessons of power through growth. Similarly you fight one who sees only power through destroying others and you show that standing alone is only weakness.

Who'd have thought it a game developed in another country might not match up the arbitrary ideals Gary Gygax made specifically for D&D and D&D alone...

Now for fun how Jobs match up to Paths of Morality in Vampire the Masquerade in a really half assed fashion based on their powers.

Paladin:Honorable Accord.

White Mage: Harmony

Scholar: Illumination

Summoner: Power of the Inner Voice, or maybe Caine

Black mage: power of the Inner Voice, or maybe Caine

Bard: Cathari.

Ninja:Path of blood.

Warrior:Path of orion

Dark Knight: Power of the Inner voice.

Machinist: Humanity

Dragoon: Beast, Blood or Caine a real soul eating heavy one.

Astrologian: Scorched Heart or Entelenchy

Monk:Set the Warrior.

I don't really think the traditional alignment system works for any of the classes. The classes are mainly power that can be either used for virtuous purposes or abused. White magic and Black magic are a perfect example. White magic is the power of creation vs Black as the power of Destruction. However White magic is powered by drawing strength from the world around it and if abused can damage the natural world it draws power from. Likewise BLM magic can be abused but likewise can be used to destroy dangerous threats.

Its the use of the power rather than the power itself that is good or evil. The power just is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Belhi

snip

---

Pretty much this. The traditional alignment system is already useless for anything other than the absolute broadest of strokes to start with, but to apply it to styles of combat is not really possible if you want any sort of cohesion. Oboro is willing to self-sacrifice to save others, is loyal to his people, and is filled with many mixed emotions when even a traitor he was sent to kill dies. He's pretty far from "neutral evil." Similarly, the miqo'te in the Heavensward Monk quests was so cacklingly, cartoonishly evil that I can't even remember his name. Dark Knight being "Lawful Evil" is the one that really gets me since Sidurgu goes around slaying the law whenever he gets the chance, but like Fray, does care about protecting the weak. Paladin is the only one I'd say fits, but that's because a paladin as a concept outside of FF is intrinsically tied to the concept of "lawful good" even when ignoring such charts. I'm sure others would counter me by listing other traits of these characters or by saying that there are other characters of those classes that embody the listed alignments but that's exactly the point; that putting PEOPLE into such a grid is one thing, but putting fighting styles into one is...well, utterly ridiculous if one intends to take it seriously.

I think people are reading too much into this. This grid is a meme, and there's even one filled with nothing but iterations of Batman...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kallera

I think people are reading too much into this. This grid is a meme, and there's even one filled with nothing but iterations of Batman...

---

Can I have a link to that one? I can think of at least Half a Dozen flame Wars I use it in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

Can I have a link to that one? I can think of at least Half a Dozen flame Wars I use it in.

---

Here's the image. https://alzrius.files.wordpress.com/...-alignment.jpg

@ OP

WAR (Chaotic Neutral) - I have a hard time fitting evil into this one at all. WAR's are meant to protect, it's a large part of their storyline. They use a beastly nature to get it done though, but that would vite more in the realm of chaotic rather than evil. Only WAR's that can't control the inner beast are dangerous to the point of harming people and the path of a Warrior is control of the inner beast.

WHM (Neutral Good) - They are actually closer to druids than anything. They pull power from nature and use it to primarily heal allies.

PLD (Lawful Neutral) - The path of the Paladin is actually one that to protect royalty. Since this is the primary motive then it would lead them to be more neutral, like a policing force. Even Solkagzyl ( I think thats how you spell it ) isn't really wandering around doing good deeds, he's on a mission to find something and that code is what drives him. Not a sense of helping out the populace.

I love this.

looking at this I think we need to come up with a new type of chart

Wouldn't Dark Knight be more along the Chaotic Good side of the Alignment Chart?

Lawful Evil is usually reserved for those who works within their boundaries to exploit and twist into whatever they find most convenient. See every corrupt noble trope in the history of the planet.

The origin of Dark Knights in lore stems from a rebel Ishgardian knight who saw past the social dogmas and laws of the city to outright murder a high ranking priest because he was exploiting kids or something. That origin almost completely fits Chaotic Good to a tee with the whole rebellious and lack of concern over rules and laws in order to bring justice (good) on those who are clearly guilty.

FFXIV Dark Knights are still stalwart protectors, they fight to protect those who are too weak to protect themselves. It's just that a Dark Knight would probably just outright murder the super corrupt evil noble while the Paladin would argue that they should take him into custody and give him a proper trial.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Belhi

Its the use of the power rather than the power itself that is good or evil. The power just is.

---

this and i have nothing to add to it. I long live Belhi the Great and the Wise!!!!!!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gamer3427

That's a matter of debate which is entirely up to roleplaying. Just because you fight "evil" beings doesn't mean you're necessarily good. I consider my WoL to be a true neutral who does quests and fights powerful foes simply because they can, with no regard to whether it's good or evil to do so. Other's could argue that while their WoL is an evil character, they take on quests and help people simply because they are paid to do so, or because they want to prove that they're stronger than the other "evil" foes that exist. Just because you're a Warrior of "Light" doesn't make you instantly good. What matters in terms of good vs evil is the motivation behind doing an act.....

---

There's no room for debate on this within the scope of the game's story. You can roleplay outside the scope of the lore as much as you want but within the lore the WoL we play as is good and only good. If your character were neutral they would show occasional support for evil factions but there are no opportunities to do so via quests. If your character were evil they would do some more evil stuff within the story... which they have no option to.

You're welcome to roleplay as whatever you want but you can't pretend that it has any impact on the actual story of each of the jobs and their 'alignments'. As far as the story is concerned all player WoLs are good and even the jobs with shadier origins are being employed for a good cause.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Even thought Black Magic is only illegal because people can't be trusted with it, does not make it any less evil. If you have a knowing willingness to wield a power which is against the law, that you purposely use despite it being illegal, it is 'bad/evil' according to society. Most things that are illegal in the real word are illegal because people can't be trusted. Some kinds of murder are arguably justifiable, HOWEVER . ALL murder is illegal because people can't be trusted if 'some murder' was legal. Same goes for black magic in FFXIV. It's not inherently evil, but it's usually (though not always) used for destruction therefore it's banned.

---

In most of Europe guns are banned because people can't be trusted with them. Based on your logic then guns are evil and thus a whole lot of Americans are evil for using them. See where I'm going with this...? Black Magic is not evil. It is simply destructive magic that draws aether from the void. It is dangerous magic to wield but so is White Magic. The entire War of the Magi story within the game is very explicit that Black and White are just as bad when it comes to destruction... so why aren't you claiming White Magic to be evil as well?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alberel

There's no room for debate on this within the scope of the game's story. You can roleplay outside the scope of the lore as much as you want but within the lore the WoL we play as is good and only good. If your character were neutral they would show occasional support for evil factions but there are no opportunities to do so via quests.

---

that's not what Neutral means in the scale of Good and Evil. Neutral characters can do good/evil but usually are motivated because of self interest and relation to others. you're almost always fighting a threat to your friends/nation, it doesn't make you Good to want to defend those things. you can be perfectly neutral and still want to protect those things.

i agree none of the storylines allow your character to be Evil but most of the time you're Neutral/Good depending on perspective.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

I don't suppose crafting and gathering could have alignments as well could they?

---

All crafting is chaotic evil.
JK, I haven't attempted to make one because I haven't done any crafting lol

Dark Knight's follow the law? When?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HorseBoots

Wouldn't Dark Knight be more along the Chaotic Good side of the Alignment Chart?

---

I really did not know much about the dark knight quests -- only up until about 50. I was really iffy about them because they have such a strong inner conflict, such as WAR, and also have kind of conflicting influences. After reading all of the comments, I'll have to agree with them being chaotic, but I believe they are more chaotic neutral-good rather than good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Dark Knight's follow the law? When?

---

They don't follow the law of a land, they do however follow a code of ethics. That is considered lawful in most RPG's.

After reading this, I now believe none of the jobs have alignments... only people have them... the jobs are just jobs. Our characters aren't lawful... since they really don't recognize a specific law or code... they certainly have no problem bucking Ishgardian laws and traditions...they just do what Hydalyn says... or what they feel is best...so they are kind of neutral. They aren't even consistent on the "primals are bad" thing once they are friends with someone that turns into one. They always try to do the "right" things- so they are good.

They are neutral good. Jobs don't have alignments. Our characters can also be any job... which again fits with neutral good. (Cause the game forces us to be good)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

After reading this, I now believe none of the jobs have alignments... only people have them... the jobs are just jobs. Our characters aren't lawful... since they really don't recognize a specific law or code... they just do what Hydalyn says... or what they feel is best...so they are kind of neutral. They always try to do the "right" things- so they are good.

They are neutral good. Jobs don't have alignments. Our characters can also be any job... which again fits with neutral good. (Cause the game forces us to be good)

---

Actually your character could be viewed as lawful. You follow a code of ethics and you adhere to allegiances. Lawful doesn't necessitate a geographical or cultural location. It's adhereance to a belief or a set of ethics that excludes others. The WoL does that quite fluently throughout the whole storyline. Defeat of primals for the betterment of the living races. You adhere to the Scions until... you can't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by karateorangutang

Actually your character could be viewed as lawful. You follow a code of ethics and you adhere to allegiances. Lawful doesn't necessitate a geographical or cultural location. It's adhereance to a belief or a set of ethics that excludes others. The WoL does that quite fluently throughout the whole storyline. Defeat of primals for the betterment of the living races. You adhere to the Scions until... you can't.

---

Yeah... I'm thinking you cooperate with the scions cause it seems like it's a good idea... but then when it seems wrong, you adapt.

I'm not sure of any code of ethics the WoL adheres to...it all seems pretty situational and trying to do the right thing. Rather than decisions being based on rules or some arbitrary ethical constructs.. it's really just relationships and the situational facts. In fact, I would argue the Heavensward storyline highlights this as it puts the WoL against rigid lawfulness and the lessons of how that rigidity can lead good intentions to do bad things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Yeah... I'm thinking you cooperate with the scions cause it seems like it's a good idea... but then when it seems wrong, you adapt.

I'm not sure of any code of ethics the WoL adheres to...it all seems pretty situational and trying to do the right thing. Rather than decisions being based on rules or some arbitrary ethical constructs.. it's really just relationships and the situational facts.

---

Innocents are never harmed for the greater good really. At least not as a direct method. Noone is ever betrayed or even lied too. Your character never lies at all. Seems like a code of ethics to me. It's heavily opinion though because your character never speaks. Its the method of thought that really seperates neutrality with lawful, and since we don't get to see that it's really up to the player to decide.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Yeah... I'm thinking you cooperate with the scions cause it seems like it's a good idea... but then when it seems wrong, you adapt.

I'm not sure of any code of ethics the WoL adheres to...it all seems pretty situational and trying to do the right thing. Rather than decisions being based on rules or some arbitrary ethical constructs.. it's really just relationships and the situational facts.

---

The eternal battle between /nod, and /frown. With the other battle beween /handover and /thatstepfowardindefiance

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by karateorangutang

Innocents are never harmed for the greater good really. At least not as a direct method. Noone is ever betrayed or even lied too. Your character never lies at all. Seems like a code of ethics to me. It's heavily opinion though because your character never speaks. Its the method of thought that really separates neutrality with lawful, and since we don't get to see that it's really up to the player to decide.

---

You can be honest without being lawful. ..and you don't kill innocents intentionally, because you are good... but a good example is that the dragon deaths are considered sad, imo. You have to kill them for the story, but unlike the dragoon, you don't consider it a cold "duty"... Just necessary to do the "right" thing in this case. I got the impression the WoL wasn't happy or even indifferent about it, but considered it a grim task.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

You can be honest without being lawful. ..and you don't kill innocents intentionally, because you are good... but a good example, imo is that the dragon deaths are considered sad, imo. You have to kill them for the story, but unlike the dragoon, you don't consider it a cold "duty"... Just necessary to do the "right" thing in this case.

---

/shrug

Sure, but without some kind of barometer on what your character is actually thinking then it's really impossible to say. As I said it comes down to interpretation of the players, which was ultimately the goal of the design team.

I view my character as lawful, she follows a code of ethics that is unique to her and has not made exceptions. You consider the exceptions to local law to be damning to that. It could be easily argued otherwise. We could dispute this all day... which is the beauty of silent protagonists.

/nod

=D

I don't care about the jobs alignment, simply because, I'm Chaos Neutral, and because I'm Chaos Neutral ALL MY JOBS are Chaos Neutral too.

But anyway, WoL aside. Most of the job classes, or guilds themselves, would adhere to a particular alignment. Even if your character in particular does not. I would be hard pressed to classify any of them as evil though. Theres not really intent in any of them to do harm for the sake of personal gain or for pleasure. There always seems to be a greater goal at work and it usually seems to be to the benefit of an innocent or a group.

Whats really funny is actually that the alignment of the class vs the job doesn't always match up. Gladiator has vastly different qualities than Paladin. Same with Rogue and Ninja.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alexz

Snip.

---

They really don't explore that aspect of Dark Knight post level 50 as you pretty much "get over it." That being said, the nature of Dark Knight and what it is suppose to represent in the world of Eorzea follows the "Rebel with a cause" attitude of Chaotic Good to a tee. Going off my perspective completing the Dark Knight story and about 2 years~ worth of traditional table top gaming.

Chaotic Neutral is more reserved for the "Devil may care" kind of person. Chaotic Neutral values himself but not necessarily the values of others. Chaotic Neutral seeks what benefits himself best, without care for those around him. I mean, the website you linked describes it best. Chaotic Neutral is an individualist, which a group of rogue knights who work behind the shadows to protect the downtrodden and weak citizens of Ishgard from Ishgard itself certainly doesn't fit that description.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HorseBoots

snip

---

I always found it funny in the storylines that Dark Knight was CG and Rogue was LN leaning LG. Seems funny to me.

Batman=Chaotic Good
Jack Sparrow= Chaotic Nutral
Kefka = Chaotic Evil

There's the prime Archtype examples for those categories.