[ffxiv-future] A request for "Player-Selectable Difficulty Scaling"

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Originally Posted by neizero

There is already an easy mode for Ifrit, it's the 4 man version, go and do that. Oh but it doesn't drop shiny weapons. Of course not, that's what the hard mode is for.

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This, also there is Toto-Rak for an easy mode dungeon. :)

You friend can still experience content as of now.

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

Greetings.

This is a repeat of one of my old threads, but I'd like to bring it up again - and preferably without the trolls, as the world is a fairly diverse place, and there are people of every different stripe imaginable.

I have friends who have difficulties handling stress and anxiety, and they also want to be able to participate in the Lv50 content in Final Fantasy XIV. As it exists now, Dzemael Darkhold and the Hyper Ifrit Fight are too stress-inducing for these people, and their personal health can suffer as a result.

However, they want to experience this content on their terms. Think of it like guildleves. Guildleves have a star system in place that allows you to decide the difficulty level, and with 1.19, it now spells out exactly how many levels above you the leve can be set to.

This is precisely what we need for the endgame content. Don't make everything arbitrarily difficult, it's too restrictive in that manner. Instead, have rewards scale according to difficulty settings. For the endgame content, let's use a three-star difficulty system as an example.

1-Star: Easy Mode, 14 Levels Below Original Difficulty (Grants NG equipment)
2-Star: Average Mode, 7 Levels Below Original Difficulty (Grants +1 equipment)
3-Star: Hardcore Mode, Original Difficulty (Grants Dungeon-Specific Equipment, like the Canopus Guisarme)

I strongly encourage Yoshi-P to examine the feasibility of such a system, because my friends have been telling me that if they can't be given the choice to decide how difficult they want the endgame content to be, they would not remain with Final Fantasy XIV. This is their ONLY major gripe.

Choice matters. Being able to complete all of the content the game has to offer on your own terms is important.

It's not fun when you look at the content, and realize: "Oh geez. If I do this, I'll get an anxiety attack and have to chuff all of my meds - and that's gonna cost me several times more than the subscription fee alone. This sucks."

So I would appreciate it if the FFXIV developers would be considerate in regards to these unique situations.

I ask the thread's respondents to please be thoughtful and polite before replying. Responses such as "Then they shouldn't play this game", are terribly rude and inconsiderate - and consequently, reflects badly on the community as a whole. Also, saying that "Ifrit has an easy mode", is not applicable in this situation as that can only be completed once, and repeated if someone in your party has the quest. It is a very limited option.

MMORPGs are meant to be inclusive. If you want to be rude or trollish, I suggest you go to EVE Online's forums.

Thank you for reading.

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silvertearRen your idea,s are gold and iam 100% on supporting it. pretty much it adds incentive to lvl 50 players to help lower players/ or even friends.

I am OK with Scalable Difficulty on Dungeons as long as the loots are lessened and more importantly, as long as after beating Ifrit in Easy-mode, the Loadstone Achievement portrays your character with a Dunce Hat. ;>P

I'm against it. The high level content should only be reserved for high level players. They worked hard and should be rewarded by being able to access the content along with the rewards. Low level players can stick to the low level stuff and their friends can help them with that if you guys want to play together.

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I have friends who have difficulties handling stress and anxiety

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I have no rude intentions in making this statement, but if your friends have difficulties handling stress and anxiety, they probably shouldn't be playing any kind of combat-centric online game. Games like FFXIV and WoW and others were not built to be serene and relaxing.

If you allow the dungeons to be scaled back, one of two things is going to happen:

1)Everyone will do the easy mode because it's easier, or
2)No one will do the easy mode because they can't get the same rewards by doing it.

Guildleves get around this problem because they are primarily used for training and currency, not item drops and the currency obtained is only somewhat modified by the difficulty, so people choose the best difficulty for their EXP gain, rather than just going straight for the easiest or hardest. But with dungeons, you can't make them easier without also making the drops harder to get (or there's no motivation to play on a higher difficulty). Then you will have people complaining that they can't get the same items as the hardcore players because they chose easy mode.

I honestly have to ask, what's the point in playing a game like this if it never challenges you? If anything that's difficult triggers a stress attack....

MMOs really AREN'T meant to be "inclusive." Many of them gradually became more inclusive as people who the games weren't designed for played them and complained, but they weren't originally designed to accommodate every kind of game player. MMOs are the only genre I've seen where games get altered to accommodate people for whom that genre probably isn't the best choice.

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

Comments like these are not welcome in this thread. I specifically asked for you people to be more considerate, and you're failing quite horribly at that.

I'd try to justify everything, but the point of this is to give people flexibility and choice. This isn't about just my friends' health, but a fundamental aspect of the game that needs to be addressed.

I don't like it when games force a tough battle on me without the option to adjust the difficulty - I don't always have time to spend one whole hour on a single boss.

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I think it's pretty ridiculous to ask the developers to implement a system to reduce stress in a video game when it's not a problem for the vast majority of the playerbase. Most people find the challenge and "stress" of a difficult boss fight appealing. I'm sorry your "friends" have issues, but maybe they should just go find a different hobby that doesn't cause anxiety attacks. SE already started adding tiered difficulties. Ifrit easy mode and Ifrit hard mode. If hard mode is too much, then go do easy mode.

Video games don't have to cater to every type of gamer. That's why there's such a huge selection of them. If one doesn't satisfy you, then you can simply go and find another one. Why should the developers attempt to cater to every demographic?

This would be like me telling SE, "I only have one arm. Please make content easier so I can play with one arm." It's absurd. Instead of demanding the game change to meet your needs, why don't you go find a game that already does that.

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Video games don't have to cater to every type of gamer. That's why there's such a huge selection of them. If one doesn't satisfy you, then you can simply go and find another one. Why should the developers attempt to cater to every demographic?

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Quoted for truth. Why do you think we have so many thousands of video games out there? Why not try to find the one that's right for you instead of forcing yourself to play one that isn't and asking that they change it to fit you?

this is stupid
please this game is already too easy
dont make things anymore easier

the skill scaling should only go up

Well, to my surprise that this thread got necro'd, and by whom?

Trolls.

Thanks, guys. You're real jerks.

Also, On Topic:

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Originally Posted by Teakwood

In theory, because dev resources are limited and this would take away from other stuff that might be more important.

In practise, because haters gonna hate. (Also a legitimate in my view desire to not see people walking around with Ifrit weapons unless they've done the difficult fight, which would be solved by multiple loot pools based on chosen difficulty.)

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My answer? Use the code from the GuildLeves' difficulty scaling system and tweak it to work for dungeons. Simple as that.

And as Teakwood earlier said: haters gonna hate, just 'cause they wanna hate. Hatin' because you can't accept an added level of flexibility to the game, makes you an extremely narrow-minded troglodyte. I have had my fill of narrow-mindedness, I'm about ready to go take a royal sh*t in a box and mail it to the biggest offender of them all. (And you won't even be able to guess who that is...)

P.S. To address the people providing a counterargument about time limitations on playtime, you obviously did not account for the amount of time it takes to prepare for a dungeon, instance, or raid. Therefore, your position is invalidated. Social circumstances can vary from day to day, some days you'll get lucky and land a party within a half hour, giving you time to do one raid, other days you end up spending an hour or more trying to assemble a party...

P.P.S. People who cannot read, and assume that I'm asking for the game to be altered on a world-shaking level - GET A GRIP. All I'm asking for is a system that lets you adjust the difficulty level, with variable reward pools. You're not losing the original difficulty level at all, only getting different difficulty levels added to the game. Holy f*ck, people.

English Comprehension 101, do you has it?

This doesn't have to be solved by allowing the player to select a difficulty for a fight. The way it stands now, there are very few endgame events, one of them being quite challenging. The way that Yoshi-P envisioned endgame content throughout this string of updates is the separation of hardcore from casual gamers. I think he said something along the lines of the hardcore players will beat it first, derive a strategy and over the course of a couple months the casual gamers will catch up and beat it too. I can already see this happening on Lindblum, more and more people are running around with Ifrit weapons, and something that used to appear hard, we now beat every fight like its nothing. That is the way that Yoshi-P envisioned the game's content, and I'd say it's doing its job.

Once more content is added, say similar to the amount of content in FFXI, I'm sure that the casual players would gravitate towards the easier events to begin with, and be able to work their way up. There is no need to have a tiered difficulty system in place when there is a large range of events to participate in. If you and your linkshell can't complete something you just have to wait until either you're better or you have the time to spend practicing it. That's just the way it is in ALL games, it's why they're challenging and why they're fun. Beating something you set on easy mode would be boring as hell, I think it's a terrible idea.

Edit: Oh and anyone who disagrees with you is not a troll, fyi.

Here's an alternative: Instead of having these instances have scaling difficulty the minute they're implemented in a patch, why not add it a few months down the road in a later patch after the dungeon/encounter/raid's debut? That way, hardcore players can run around swinging their e-peens for those few months.

Yet another alternative: Implement an in-game method to reduce dungeons/raids difficulties by obtaining a key item that can be used only once (and you can have only one at a time). For example, let's pretend we have a raid dungeon full of Tonberries. You want to have an easier time killing the tonberries and the bosses, so you go on a long quest arc with plenty of gradually-increasing difficulties, and finally obtain the "Sacred Tonberry Lantern"! You then use that Lantern in the dungeon to reduce the difficulty of the fights in that dungeon. There are mechanics like this in FFXI, such as the Generals you recruit for the Campaign battles.

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

Here's an alternative: Instead of having these instances have scaling difficulty the minute they're implemented in a patch, why not add it a few months down the road in a later patch after the dungeon/encounter/raid's debut? That way, hardcore players can run around swinging their e-peens for those few months.

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So... how it works now, minus the scaling system you're suggesting?

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Sorry, but your earlier posted asked for a smartass reply. Even if through an unfortunate turn the thread was brought back by a troll, people still posted thoughtful, valid responses without being offensive. All of which you pass off as trolls.

@ OP: I really liked your post :). I sure hope the devs listen and allow all players to have access to and enjoy all the content in the game (which we pay for, in the end). I believe there was a comment by Yoshi-P in an interview or something about difficulty adjustment. I just wish there were at least finer gradations of difficulty selection so that's not just easy-no reward/hard-reward.

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

Here's an alternative: Instead of having these instances have scaling difficulty the minute they're implemented in a patch, why not add it a few months down the road in a later patch after the dungeon/encounter/raid's debut? That way, hardcore players can run around swinging their e-peens for those few months.

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If this is implemented then the masses will complain that old content is useless, and they will be forced to add new difficult content that has gear that replaces the old. It would also make people lazy, and people wouldn't even attempt events that they found difficult because 'it will be gimped later.'

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Yet another alternative: Implement an in-game method to reduce dungeons/raids difficulties by obtaining a key item that can be used only once (and you can have only one at a time). For example, let's pretend we have a raid dungeon full of Tonberries. You want to have an easier time killing the tonberries and the bosses, so you go on a long quest arc with plenty of gradually-increasing difficulties, and finally obtain the "Sacred Tonberry Lantern"! You then use that Lantern in the dungeon to reduce the difficulty of the fights in that dungeon. There are mechanics like this in FFXI, such as the Generals you recruit for the Campaign battles.

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This is just silly.

I really don't think there's a viable way to scale boss fights, I think it's silly to let people experience the feats of the game by turning a dial to easy mode, in my opinion those people who can't complete certain events just need to go do something else. But don't worry, V2.0 will have plenty of options for them.

Btw, to those worried about complaints about old gear from the instances:

They're already obsolete, numbnuts. The gear from the Garuda fight will also be obsolete right out the gate, too.

I have one word for you: Materia.

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

Btw, to those worried about complaints about old gear from the instances:

They're already obsolete, numbnuts. The gear from the Garuda fight will also be obsolete right out the gate, too.

I have one word for you: Materia.

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The Ifrit weapons are far from obsolete. As for dungeon gear, I assume that any gear created before the 'dated' gear period and implementation of materia will be vastly worse than gear with it. Some materia can only be equipped in some slots, which causes some slots (such as head for DD) to lack in beneficial stats. There is and will always be unique/untradable gear better than materia gear from here on out (Yoshi-P said that there will be a balance between unique/untradable gear and gear with 1 materia in it).

It's really surprising and rather disappointing to see so many people against the idea of being able to choose your difficulty for raids and primal fights. Games are a form of entertainment made for an audience of various lifestyles. This is especially true in an MMO like FFXIV where we literally collaborate with other players on an international scale. Why is it that there's a notion that MMO or "endgame" content must be for the "hardcore" players? We're not even talking about rewards here as Ren has stated in the original post that players choosing the easy modes would not be getting NM or raid gears.

What's so wrong about allowing players to experience content which they have worked to become eligible for? Would you tell someone they're not allowed to see a film because they don't understand the underlying themes of the movie despite the fact that they are able to enjoy the story on a surface level? Adding an easy mode with reduced reward to "endgame" content doesn't take away anything from the "hardcore" players. Players overcoming the regular and harder difficulties can still keep their inflated egos with their special gear while players choosing the easy route will get to experience the full battle with higher survivability rates while foregoing the superfluous rewards.

The point is, not every player is going to be a hardened video game veteran with over a decade of experience under their belts. Some players are just here to chat and experience the content because they love the world, or Final Fantasy or just enjoy doing things with friends. And if SE's goal is to reach out to as wide a player base as possible, this would be one idea that could be taken into consideration. For the time being, I hope your friends can overcome their challenges with the high level content currently available.

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

weird, I was thinking the exact same thing about people with video game stress induced anxiety nervous disorders.....

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Yet you're going to be flamed to death for that comment now because you (and I) think that people with such disorders should either avoid endgame content in mmos (it's called ENDGAME for a reason) or just play something less stress inducing like Animal Crossing or Nintendogs.

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Originally Posted by Colino

Yet you're going to be flamed to death for that comment now because you (and I) think that people with such disorders should either avoid endgame content in mmos (it's called ENDGAME for a reason) or just play something less stress inducing like Animal Crossing or Nintendogs.

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That makes three of us.

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Originally Posted by Zuellni

It's really surprising and rather disappointing to see so many people against the idea of being able to choose your difficulty for raids and primal fights. Games are a form of entertainment made for an audience of various lifestyles. This is especially true in an MMO like FFXIV where we literally collaborate with other players on an international scale. Why is it that there's a notion that MMO or "endgame" content must be for the "hardcore" players? We're not even talking about rewards here as Ren has stated in the original post that players choosing the easy modes would not be getting NM or raid gears.

What's so wrong about allowing players to experience content which they have worked to become eligible for? Would you tell someone they're not allowed to see a film because they don't understand the underlying themes of the movie despite the fact that they are able to enjoy the story on a surface level? Adding an easy mode with reduced reward to "endgame" content doesn't take away anything from the "hardcore" players. Players overcoming the regular and harder difficulties can still keep their inflated egos with their special gear while players choosing the easy route will get to experience the full battle with higher survivability rates while foregoing the superfluous rewards.

The point is, not every player is going to be a hardened video game veteran with over a decade of experience under their belts. Some players are just here to chat and experience the content because they love the world, or Final Fantasy or just enjoy doing things with friends. And if SE's goal is to reach out to as wide a player base as possible, this would be one idea that could be taken into consideration. For the time being, I hope your friends can overcome their challenges with the high level content currently available.

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No, endgame is not just for the 'hardcore' players. The little endgame that FFXIV has now is challenging, as it has been designed to be. As I outlined in my previous post, the ideas behind the difficulty of events such as the Ifrit fight is that between each major patch the entire range of players ends up beating it. He said that the ideal progression is that the hardcore players beat it first and the casual players end up beating it later when the mechanics of the fight become well known and it becomes easier.

It doesn't take a hardcore gamer to be competent and complete difficult endgame content, a casual player can be just as good. FFXI is a very clear indicator of a system that worked, it had a large range of endgame events (that will be the case for FFXIV too later on) that catered to a range of players. When salvage came out it was hard as shit, a couple months later you had the right party setups down, the right strategies and paths to follow and it was easy, easy enough for pickup groups.

It devalues the victory of ALL players to allow a difficulty setting for endgame content. Where's the satisfaction of watching a cutscene for beating a mission fight when you do it on easy mode? When you watch a huge-ass monster die in front of you, how do you feel knowing that you made it easier for yourself? This isn't pre-school, you aren't having your hand held, either do it properly or don't even try.

I seriously think all of the people in this thread crying to have this implemented are a) jealous of more skilled players that have done things like beat ifrit, b) had their application to a good linkshell denied or c) are just plain lazy and want things handed to them like children. You aren't here to have things made easy for you, the point of the game is to have challenging events that you work towards, and the satisfaction of completing them AS THEY ARE is the feeling you strive to have.

Your analogy is garbage btw.

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Originally Posted by Frein

I don't want to be rude, but how do these people get by in their everyday lives? I'd imagine they're constantly in a state of complete nervous breakdown.

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I also don't intend to sound rude or apathetic, but if someone has stress issues with things that happen as a course of normal gameplay in most any game out there, they really should be reconsidering their choice of entertainment.

@the OP:
Certainly there are going to be situations outside of end-game/raid content that could possibly stress friend out. How are they going to deal with that? You can't keep asking SE to create an "easier, stress-free version" of every single type of content that your friend happens to find is stressful to them.

Also, the idea that MMOs are supposed to be inclusive is certainly true... but to say "that obviously includes people with stress disorders that are triggered by playing intense content" is a bit of a stretch. If you're going to cross that bridge, then what's to stop people with other disorders from doing the same?

I'm sure there are a number of things in your friend's life that they've had to come to terms with, or find other ways to engage in or enjoy due to their condition. I doubt your friend asks everyone they deal with to please alter things or do things differently so they don't get stressed out.

Again... I empathize with your friend's condition and I'm not just saying "pffft... screw them". However, at the same time... it just seems something that could be a can of worms.

Let's say SE does that. They say "Okay, in order to better accommodate people with stress disorders, we are going to introduce easier versions of all content for people to do".

How much would people like to bet that, "overnight", a whole bunch more people who never complained of it before, suddenly start popping up with a variety of disorders of their own, and who require special consideration by having SE change some aspect of the gameplay to suit them? I can definitely see people abusing such a thing, given the behavior already demonstrated by many of them.

What's to stop other people from claiming they have issues that requires them to avoid "this" or "that" and so SE needs to change some aspect of the game to suit them? What is SE going to do, check the medical records of everyone who claims they have an issue to see who's lying and who's being honest?

How does SE say 'Okay, we'll accommodate the people with "List A" disorders... but not those with "List B" disorders". Then they're going to be accused of favoring some players over others.

And further, how long do you think it will be before some of those same people are demanding the same rewards as those doing the toughest version of the content in question, arguing that "I'm being punished for having a medical condition! SE is punishing people with legitimate medical conditions by refusing them access to the best gear in the game!!! SE doesn't care about their customers!!"

FFS people without any kind of medical condition are already making those claims. Could you imagine the less honest folks out there having access to such ammunition as saying "I have a medical condition"?. They'd be all over that.

It's a potentially slippery slope, to be honest and I can't see how SE could reasonably handle it without painting themselves into a corner or coming out looking like the bad guy at some point down the road where they finally have to draw a line.

I'm not saying "it shouldn't be done". I just don't know how realistic a thing it is to expect, given the time/work involved, and the potential consequences of it.

I wonder what it's like for these people at a super market when they buy milk.

non-fat? 1%, 2%....... WHOLE MILK!!!!! IT'S TOO DIFFICULT!!!!!

The most depressing thing, is half these spiteful comments probably wouldn't be coming up, and there might even be more positive reactions, had the original suggestion simply been:

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Why not have difficulty scaling for people who want to see and experience content normally restricted to people willing to deal with the negative aspects of hardcore play, and are more than happy to get lessened rewards as a result?

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It's kind of sad that someone giving more context to their suggestion and being open with the community, ended up with more misunderstanding, trolling, and spite.

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

Comments like these are not welcome in this thread. I specifically asked for you people to be more considerate, and you're failing quite horribly at that.

I'd try to justify everything, but the point of this is to give people flexibility and choice. This isn't about just my friends' health, but a fundamental aspect of the game that needs to be addressed.

I don't like it when games force a tough battle on me without the option to adjust the difficulty - I don't always have time to spend one whole hour on a single boss.

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But wait... what does you not having the time to spend "an hour on a single boss" (which isn't the case in FFXIV, as others have noted) have to do with your friend's condition? I mean that is the premise you started this thread under.

You started this thread pleading for the sake of a friend with a medical condition... and within a few posts, you've brought it around to also being about what you want and what time you have.

So then, is this actually all about you feeling that you don't have time and that you prefer difficulty settings in games? Did you use your friends' health as an emotional element to bring more "weight" to it?

I have a feeling you just outed yourself here, Silver.... And if that's the case, then shame on you for using the health of others to further your own personal agenda.

Further, the post you responded to is absolutely fine. They gave a straight and frank answer with valid advice. Just because it wasn't sugar-coated and wrapped up in sympathies doesn't make it "rude".

As for your suggestion, I've already stated in a previous thread that I'm not against the idea itself, but that I question the feasibility of it, given all that can happen in its wake.

P.S. If you 'sometimes' don't have the time to do more time-consuming content, then 'sometimes' you simply choose to do things you can do in the time you have. Save the more involved content for when you do have the time for it. It's not rocket science.

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Originally Posted by Fensfield

The most depressing thing, is half these spiteful comments probably wouldn't be coming up, and there might even be more positive reactions, had the original suggestion simply been:


It's kind of sad that someone giving more context to their suggestion and being open with the community, ended up with more misunderstanding, trolling, and spite.

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It's got nothing to do with that, it's a ridiculous suggestion to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Buddhsie

It's got nothing to do with that, it's a ridiculous suggestion to begin with.

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Also a suggestion given under dubious circumstances, given Silver's abrupt change in focus, from it being about "their friend being able to do end game content", to it being about that and them not having enough time and wanting to still do the content.

I could be wrong.. But I find it dubious.

I'm not questioning that they have friends with medical conditions (I'm pretty sure most of us here know at least 1 person with some kind of medical condition). I just question what the true motivation for their suggestion is/was.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Also a suggestion given under dubious circumstances, given Silver's abrupt change in focus, from it being about "their friend being able to do end game content", to it being about that and them not having enough time and wanting to still do the content.

I could be wrong.. But I find it dubious.

I'm not questioning that they have friends with medical conditions (I'm pretty sure most of us here know at least 1 person with some kind of medical condition). I just question what the true motivation for their suggestion is/was.

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Eh. Don't question yourself too much. Just gauge some of their responses. Rage fits, refusing to address valid arguments, slinging insults when he has nowhere else to turn. That says enough about the situation.

In thought there is not a huge problem with this type of thing. However, It will not help anything with a majority of players. Normally, instead of people that have disabilities, it's the casuals who are the ones that are asking to be able to complete the same content the hard cores are finishing. So let's say we dumb things down for (people that really shouldn't be playing MMO's or atleast playing "harder" MMO's) people with disablities. Indeed they are now able to complete what the non-disabled player can and thats great, however, soon the "I want the gear they get from completion sets in". The forums get flooded with complaints about it. It's happend in almost every MMO I can think of that has that type of scenario. Because of this, I've seen MMO's dumb down content and make almost everything easy-mode. I really don't want to see that here.

I think they've been pretty generous so far introducing higher level, and lower level of similar content. Sadly it's impossible to have perfect balance that will suit everyone's needs. It is after all a genre that once started off catering to hardcore players, that's branched off into appealing to casual players but even then not every new content can be perfect for everyone. That's sadly just the way it's going to be

But again they've been pretty generous. Leves have difficulty levels, dungeons have a lower and higher alternative etc..

In my opinion, I prefer these Hyper content to stay like what it is for the "thrill" (even though most fights requires understanding the server-lag, which sucks). There's going to be more "rides" to jump in the future like hamlet defense ect. that might or not be difficult.

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I also don't intend to sound rude or apathetic, but if someone has stress issues with things that happen as a course of normal gameplay in most any game out there, they really should be reconsidering their choice of entertainment.

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I second this. I'm sorry your friends have their anxiety disorders if that's truly the case. It's certainly unfortunate and I have no doubt it puts a big damper on their lives in Eorzea and out of it. But other people have legitimate medical conditions too. Should SE take all the lights out of WS animations and cutscenes because they can trigger seizures in a very very small minority of people? That's just as real a medical condition as the one you're concerned with and, I'd argue, the consequences of a seizure can be notably more severe.

I don't think it's reasonable to ask for a game to be built catering to every minority interest though. I wish people didn't have seizures. I wish they didn't have anxiety attacks. I wish lots of things like that. But the world is as it is, and /most/ people don't have those problems. The game is built for most people. People who're truly so sensitive to lights blinking or seeing someone's hp turn yellow probably should find other things to do.

And I'll also second, as has been noted, that most of ff14 is fairly stress free by most measures.

... idk what to say... Dzemael Darkhold is so easy we 5man'd it on sunday.. and ifrit well there is already a easy mode he's level 25 and you can solo it as anything L40+ lol...

lets just be serious.. everything in games is easy after you know what to do, its practicing and learning the strategy that makes it hard. if people have stress from a game its probably time to start growing up alittle and understanding it is a fake world that can not hurt you or your friends thats the joy of games all it does is consume time and give enjoyment.

(the DH we started with 6 and one logged out to go get food after Ogre)

I've got my own opinion on the OP and his rebuttles to all replying, but those can wait. that being said...i DO at least agree, that possibly there could be a way to take the stress out of doing a darkhold run, or ifrit. the timed darkhold run and hyper mode ifrit are and are meant to be difficult, period end of story, but if they let's say gave you the choice in say for instance of darkhold a "non-timed" run...with no difficulty change...and let's say the reward for every chest and even the bosses would just be dark matter (say like 5 for defeating mini boss and full boss) because: 1) you're NOT doing it timed, you shouldn't get the same reward a guy on timed would. and 2: you would get a different set of rules.

What rules? okay this is just me shooting in the dark: 1) since it's not timed, you're already not working against a clock, so people like the person in question, and all involved, could pre-plan before sections of the dungeon, or even say in the middle of said dungeon just rest up, or regain composure..whatever, and while this would help the stress of people like the person in question and you could still do the instance and learn it, because only the finishing time frame has changed, not mob density or difficulty.

and 2 (i know i'm gonna get either hell or at least a "atta boy" for this) : You get a guaranteed mulligan that doesn't involve a full reset and re-entry. Let's say you get to that damned ogre or batraal and you wipe, when you all return to the entrance on non-timed ONLY you get the option to reset the fight you failed at, and then do it again, not the entire run.

This kind of kills two birds with one stone, you can plan and learn different strategies, which is great because the difficulty hasn't changed...only the time you have to do it all in. so when you ARE prepared for a timed run, you can function as a unit better. then you're getting dark matter when you do kill and progress through, so you can just repair and go again if you want. (of course this is only a theoretic deal on my part...i imagine it sounds silly, but hell it's what i thought of.)

Giving my opinion of the OP, being on his server and dealing with him, i can say that his replies are pretty much par for course when talking to him daily, if he doesn't agree with what you have to say. in fact i've had him blacklisted for at least the past two months because i just got sick of his attitude if god-forbid, you don't bend over backwards trying to see his point of view or agree blindly with what he says as gospel. the game nor any dungeon they could throw at me pissed me off as much as him just yammering on swearing on LS chat, so it was just better to ignore it AND him. i DO appriciate the fact that for once he claims he's not doing this for himself..so i hope..and maybe one day they may implement some way that people who suffer like that can maybe enjoy the game at their own pace, dungeons and all.

Why does the stress need to be taken out of a battle? Ever heard of good stress? How many times in a game like this have you entered into a battle and you have that heart-pounding, blood rushing, combat high feeling?

I would rather NOT have that taken away.

I agree with the OP, but for a different reason. I play the game with a couple of friends, and we'd like to take a crack at the 'higher' Ifrit, but we wouldn't mind not getting the same types of drops as "hyper" Ifrit. We do want to see how the fight's like, but there's too few of us to do so. Having to party up with 5 strangers or joining a random linkshell isn't ideal for us.

But hey, I guess Yoshida doesn't want all content to be accessible by everyone. Hopefully they'll implement some low-man friendly content later on.

Works for me.