How a Meridianum and Praetoreum run should be!

And here I thought in a group, majority rules, or some compromize leaning towards that was the most decent way to do things... guess I was wrong, the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many.

"The needs of the many~" only applies in regards to noble sacrifices. The line only ever spouted when, in their sacrifice, something better is brought about (Khaaaa~n~!). There's nothing noble in telling someone new to a dungeon to skip the cutscenes or return when they 'stop sucking' just so you can shave off a few minutes off your time. That's just being a douche'.

Interesting that you assume it is stated that way...

So an extra 15-20 minutes of your time is far more important than a new player getting an amazing experience for the first time that they'll never get to recapture following a good story from 1-50?

Spin it all you want, you're just impatient and don't care about anyone below you.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonThunder

So an extra 15-20 minutes of your time is far more important than a new player getting an amazing experience for the first time that they'll never get to recapture following a good story from 1-50?

Spin it all you want, you're just impatient and don't care about anyone below you.

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Amazing experience? Well that's a matter of opinion. And yes, you could consider in a majority situation that the time of the majority is more important. Hell, time being important is the only reason the roulette is even there.

And actually the group is what is important to me, maybe you care about their level or level of experience more than I do since you brought it up. I don't mind going slow if a good chunk want it, I don't mind going fast. If we have one who wants a full clear and another who wants fast, I usually go middle of the road. There are days when I prefer one over the other, cause you know, variaty is the life of spice or some such.


But you know, you can spin it all you like if it gives you that self-rightous tingle.


Also, with unsync, it's easy to low man it and get the full experience. Or if doing it a level is your cup of tea, and your against low unsync, be a man and make a min ilvl group for the real experience.

I'm still in the opinion that if you choose to use DF, you SHOULD be expecting new and inexperienced players joining you. And you SHOULD be accommodating, for the sole reason that they most likely have lesser alternatives than you, someone whose been playing for a good while.

In the same breath, I think Party finder should be more encouraged. When people go through the MSQ and they encounter a dungeon in order to progress, the message usually states to use DF. So honestly, the DF party would be more like a 'learning party' than anything (and in my experience, progressing through MSQ, I honestly had little to no idea PF as an alternative), and to expect otherwise is pretty selfish.

You can view the cutscene afterwards, as many times as you want.

Without bothering anyone.

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Originally Posted by Ykronix

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A little off topic, but I would also like to see the party finder pushed harder. There seems to be a large fear of using it floating around. Look at all these, "it's wrong to want experience of any kind in your pf" threads/comments. People are called elitests for it, by people crying about the lack of learning parties in it, ones that every single person who complains has the ability to make themselves.

"The Problem isn't the "Party Finder" Its How the Community Uses it defines weather or not it is a good exp. or not.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

And actually the group is what is important to me...

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This seems to be the only thing we agree on. The group is important, everyone from the 'hardcore raider' just wanting their clear to the new player getting their first run. No one person more important than the other. This is the failing of the community, it seems. Most people feel their time is more important than others and 'seditious behavior' from the 'norm' should be chastised or worse. It's like the lalafell in my signature says...

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

And here I thought in a group, majority rules, or some compromize leaning towards that was the most decent way to do things... guess I was wrong, the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many.

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There are no needs, you're playing a video game.

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Originally Posted by Alaray

There are no needs, you're playing a video game.

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One would think you knew exactly what was meant, but evidently not. Your response reminds me of when some one is talking about everyone putting in their best work for a clear and someone inevitably spews out a "hurr durrr.... it's a game , not work! Get a lyfe!", and then Maleviction has to log in to post his pic.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

This seems to be the only thing we agree on. The group is important, everyone from the 'hardcore raider' just wanting their clear to the new player getting their first run. No one person more important than the other. This is the failing of the community, it seems. Most people feel their time is more important than others and 'seditious behavior' from the 'norm' should be chastised or worse. It's like the lalafell in my signature says...

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While I agree with the lala in your signature, it seems we interpret it differently. I mean no offense by this, but it seems you think it means everyone must act with the upmost to your view of humanity. Meaning you think that everyone should bend to your thoughts on how a run should be. Rather than taking into account that there are multiple people within the group and everyone has to compromise to have the most enjoyable outcome for the run. This means nobody, unless all views are aligned from the start, gets their ideal run, but they get some part of it.

If you want the perfectly ideal run for you, you have to form a pf of like minded people, or get extremely lucky with everyone df pairs you with. To demand everyone fit to your view of the run is no different than a that one person out of 8 who forces the speed run on those who want to go slow.

While I think it's a nice thing that you like to give everyone their slow/story run. You should also keep in mind that people are not bad for playing the community standard for it. It's merely neutral. The one who yells and kicks people for watching cutscenes is the one who is bad.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

One would think you knew exactly what was meant, but evidently not. Your response reminds me of when some one is talking about everyone putting in their best work for a clear and someone inevitably spews out a "hurr durrr.... it's a game , not work! Get a lyfe!", and then Maleviction has to log in to post his pic.

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My point wasn't that; those dungeons are lower level, easy to clear and require little effort to complete. If someone wants to watch the cutscenes that are put in there, as part of the dungeon, it's not a big deal like so many people make it out to be. They're there to play a video game; if people in that run had other important things they needed to do they should have got those things done beforehand and taken responsibility for that. DF's not a tool for speedrunning content, or skipping content without prior say so; Party Finder is more productive for that kind of gameplay since everyone knows the expectations before going in, whereas with DF there are no expectations before going in. It's just common courtesy to let people experience content as the designers of it intended for it to be experienced when no other expectations were put into place.

It's particularly disheartening for someone playing a DPS class because of the abysmal queue times.

There's no reason to trample on a new player's experience to save ten minutes.

Actually df if is a way of grouping people togeather in content. It makes no assumptions on how the run will be played.

Also, how easy or hard content is doesn't matter either. The simple fact is, without roulettes, you wouldn't be getting into that content via duty finder in less than hours. If forcing others to run your way is your thing PF is there for that. DF is random, so you runs will be as well.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Actually df if is a way of grouping people togeather in content. It makes no assumptions on how the run will be played.

Also, how easy or hard content is doesn't matter either. The simple fact is, without roulettes, you wouldn't be getting into that content via duty finder in less than hours. If forcing others to run your way is your thing PF is there for that. DF is random, so you runs will be as well.

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Because letting someone watch the cutscenes is truly disastrous to experience and gameplay when the dungeons exist for that purpose to begin with. Whereas forcing new players to skip content they want to experience rather than be spoiled on, in a story based instance and game, is totally not ruining someone's actual game experience.

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Originally Posted by Violyre

...As for the people who feel people like me waste your time, do you REALLY need those daily tokens? You should expect this stuff when you sign up for MSQ Roulette. I'll tell you the same thing I told those Meridianum people...

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Btw, I think most ppl running these for exp. but not for tokens.
And if the run starts like 20min before daily reset, ofcoz ppl want hurry up.
If the run starts after daily reset, I think more ppl willing to spare their time to wait.

The same player could be the best and the worst player in different runs for the same content. ^^;

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

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Tell me, everytime you speedran CM/Prae with a new player how did it feel knowing you may have ruined someone's day just to get a daily done?

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Originally Posted by CrimsonThunder

Tell me, everytime you speedran CM/Prae with a new player how did it feel knowing you may have ruined someone's day just to get a daily done?

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Not bad at all. If that ruins your day, you have bigger issues than speedrunners on your hands. To counter, but with a more reasonable and less melodramatic question. How does it feel knowing everytime you pissed and moaned about speed runs, you made multiple peoples runs worse. You can spin that to be asking if you ruined their days if the melodrama makes it sound better to you... right? Maybe I can cast great assumptions like you have slowed down every run you've been in, how does it feel knowing you have wasted thousands of peoples time?

At the same time though, at least their day wasn't ruined by having to wait two days in a queue to get in. :)

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Originally Posted by CrimsonThunder

Tell me, everytime you speedran CM/Prae with a new player how did it feel knowing you may have ruined someone's day just to get a daily done?

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Frankly the other option is never getting your queue to pop. It's not a hypothetical, that was why they added the roulette in the first place.

If it were an option between a perfect or imperfect run, then sure I guess. But that's a false option. The options are dealing with people running fast or never setting foot in the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Violyre

You may say "they kicked you with majority vote" to counteract my attempt to call the people telling me to skip were selfish.

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You can report people who kicked you. There are always some people with improper behavior, it's not a bad thing if they are punished a bit.
Status Quo is that new people can watch what they want, but party might not wait for them. And both whining about not waiting at bosses and kicking people for watching cutscenes considered bad behaviour from respective group (and kick abuse is even reportable).

If party cannot proceed without people watching cutscene.... well that is a risk involved in helping newbies.

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

Btw, I think most ppl running these for exp. but not for tokens.

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Hmm, it doesn't give higher tokens at 60? I dunno, I rarely run MSQ roulette myself for the exact same reasons that people telling others to skip cutscenes demand it. Yes, I realize this makes me a hypocrite, and even the times I do, I rarely speak up unless it's against someone saying to skip because those people are just irritating as hell. It's why I had no reason to not hold myself from snapping back at the two idiots. MSQ roulette was made to help new players get through the main storyline, generally first timers. I am aware I am not a first timer (this being my third character AND second LP character) but I've explained my reasons.

I do want to explain something to the people unfamiliar with doing Let's Plays. You're setting a mood while recording. You're showing what you feel at the time of that recording. And you know what destroys a mood? Doing a cutscene later and trying to get the same hype you were at when you skipped it. Some people are able to do it, I am not one of those. Splitting the events can also cause issues between the narrative. One of the reasons I came to dislike my original LP is because I did keep trying to go back and repeat stuff after the fact, whether I accidentally forgot to start recording before I started working, or things got lost. A good example of this is my episode on Leviathan story mode. Somehow, I lost the recording of my commentary on the battle. When I went back and tried to do a post-commentary, I noticed silly things that happened throughout the video and it just got weird when I did.

The best thing you can do for yourself, as a Let's Player, is do it while everything is fresh in your head. That means I wasn't skipping vital cutscenes just so I could keep the proper flow of my narrative for the story functioning.

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

And if the run starts like 20min before daily reset, ofcoz ppl want hurry up.

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We were about 12 hours away from it if my math was proper, so that wouldn't apply.

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Originally Posted by Felessan

You can report people who kicked you.

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Funny thing about that, I did think of that...about five episodes after Prae. I just thought that not having the exact time wouldn't work so much, and I took a bit of a break after finishing the 2.0 storyline before the next set of episodes.

Another thing regarding party finder, a lot of people said I should've used it. But there's a current thread (and several previous threads) wanting to block first timers from party finder. I've also seem several of the "elite" of the game wish this as well. Barring the fact that everyone knows JP players use PF as we use DF, I know they mean raids and EX bosses, but assume we put this into effect with the standard SE handwave.

"Oh, I don't want to bother anyone in DF watching cutscenes. I'll just send up a PF and...oh. I can't."

I realize I keep spouting out hypotheticals, but I find it interesting to point out flaws in people's logic.

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Originally Posted by szalkerous

I'll say it again, on my first time I was asked to skip all and I did.

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And whose fault was it that you skipped? You could've said no but told them to keep going while you were in CS. Were you an important class?

I used to be one of those people that skipped CS inside dungeons. I regretted doing that. It makes the game much better when your thoughts are flowing on the same line.