White mage still has a slight edge on aoe healing but astro is the stronger single target healer now and the better tank healer. Tetra,bene and divine seal still is behind in stnastry and essential.
And no I show my unpleasant side after seeing five posts in a row from people who like to troll. Keep the thread civil and ill gladly follow suite. And if I am wrong normally ghislain comes around to humble me lol.
Learning how to properly play AST
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11-14-2015, 09:16 PMVlady
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11-14-2015, 11:26 PMNamoNanamoWell, Whm has assize, it's great, it can heal or Damage. But remember that Ast got a mana reduction on his healing spell (except for Aspected benefic that cost more). 353 mana for "Benefic" vs"442" for cure (ex. You can see that all the spell got lower mana. Gravity is cheaper tooQuote:
WHM still has a slight advantage over AST with the current meta of one solo healer + one SCH. WHM has slightly more of a throughput in terms of healing with divine seal (lower cooldown and higher healing increase than synystry) and 3 oGCD heals, one which is aoe and restores mana as well. However, AST brings buffs to the party that WHM doesn't, which are tied to a little too much RNG still. Currently in savage WHM edges AST out due to the healing requirements with solo heal + SCH. This may all change with the next raid patch.
And about Synastry, you maybe get an 10 % less increase than ds but the spell is stronger than Divine seal. 40% of original spell within 20 sec for the one that got synastry. You can't beat that.
Whm is easier to play when you get content with heavy aoe.
A1s, Medica2 and his range. Medica II is enough to keep everybody alive.
a3s, Medica2, asylum, Assyze, Cure III. So it's much easier than Ast. Unless if you lack of dps, Ast can help.
But for A2s. No aoe, in term of healing, you can really shine with ast. Synastry is strong and he allows you to solo heal with ease.
Use gravity on the guys with the highest Hp, cause if he die before the cast, you lost the spell -
11-15-2015, 12:05 AMDarkmoonVaelYeah synastry really shines in single target/double target healing. I love the fact they changed the old version of synastry, which was very very weak, to this version.Quote:
Originally Posted by NamoNanamo
With a2s i think whm vs ast is all down to group preferance more than anything now. AST can bring some useful healing cooldowns and gravity, whilst whm can bring more dps in the earlier waves.
Kind of makes you wonder if in the next raid tier they make healing checks slightly lower will the meta change firmly to sch/ast as raid healers?
But anyway, i fear we are derailing the original topic a little. -
11-15-2015, 12:22 AMAnyendryyl
Lol love all the hate nocturnal sect is getting. I have watched an astro solo heal ravana ex in nocturnal. I can't do it personally, but I'm trying to get better with it. Personally nocturnal to me is fun as shit. And very helpful. But yes, you do more overall healing in diurnal.
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11-16-2015, 02:28 AMVladyI dun think nocturnal sect is really getting any hate. If your group has the mechanics down ravana extreme could probably be solo healed by an astro without even being in any sect. The issue is the astrologian is a sort of wierd hybrid that is on par with white mage now but shift into nocturnal does not really work well to replace the scholar.. I hope they will turn nocturnal into a unique offensive buff for astro with a unique shield mechanic over just trying to copy/paste parts of the scholar since they did buff potencies for duirnal stance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anyendryyl
The gimmick does not work well either when you can job change to white mage or scholar which makes a hybrid healer of both healer roles a bit forced. -
11-16-2015, 06:42 AMKerrigenRavana ex was solo healable like 5 months ago, I'm not sure this is a good benchmark.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anyendryyl
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11-16-2015, 08:14 AMGarnetTribalThe fight is rhythmic. Just like Shiva, if you get it down, you don't really have to take any damage. Solo healing Ravana isn't saying much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anyendryyl
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11-16-2015, 08:39 AMAzureFlareOnly two parts about Ravana ex that made it difficult solohealing Ravana was the second 'neutral stance' phase, and the third one. Once you get the timing down for the AoE you can just pre-cast Helios and get right back to healing the MT. Not difficult at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anyendryyl
And nocturnal sect isn't getting the hate, but no one wants to speak the forbidden words since we all know what happened when we got remotely close, so asking for nocturnal to get buffed/revised (or AST as a whole) seems more lucrative. Nocturnal sect is fine in a vacuum, behind Diurnal but being able to grant more eHP than Diurnal and stronger burst healing (and making AST ridiculously mobile). The results show in Seize Rock where Nocturnal Sect shines, but fights like that won't happen in PvE for the next 3 years or so, if we are lucky.
AST plays out really nice compared to the other healers when you get the 'combo' feel going, where you can chain CU into an AoE card into LA + CO, or similar combos with Synastry + LA&CO, but it also means you might need to delay LA for longer than you want or give up on the extended LA which makes your cooldowns line up differently and may hurt in the long run. -
11-16-2015, 08:42 AMFoxyArekuNot at all, I back everything up and don't let my own bias get the better of me, I don't speak in opinions, I speak in facts and generally accepted statements. This is the exact opposite of vlady who is so biased that he thought astro was just as good if not a better healer than the other two before it even got buffed, which is highly laughable.Quote:
Originally Posted by NamoNanamo
I've made it very clear on multiple accounts that Astro is my favorite healer to play, but the flaws it has are so obvious I get baffled anytime someone is blind to them. I bring these to light because I want them to be fixed, how can people not understand that? I want Astro to be the best healer, but it ain't gonna happen for awhile by the looks of it. The kit is just too restricted.
I do give people too much credit though I suppose. Should be obvious a class with nearly dozen more healing abilities and healing related cooldowns would be better at throughput.
Don't spread such rubbish about me when you clearly don't know anything about me or my posting history, thx. -
11-16-2015, 09:08 AMNamoNanamoI don't need to know about your posting history.Quote:
Don't spread such rubbish about me when you clearly don't know anything about me or my posting history, thx.
You think you are better than him, you think you are clearly stating fact but you aren't.
I don't care that you want Astro to be the best healer, I don't care that Ast is your favorite healer. It's not relevant at all.
This is a fact, and anyone who says otherwise is honestly highly uneducated. /sarcasm
Now, if you want to prove that whm/sch is better than Ast. Don't give "fact" but explain why you think they are better. -
11-16-2015, 09:13 AMFoxyArekuQuote:
Originally Posted by NamoNanamo
I don't think I'm better than anybody, I just know Vlady is biased. Being biased doesn't make you any worse than anyone else, rather rude of you to think that I'd say. It just makes arguing with you pointless, hence why I don't give him the time of day.
Maybe, instead of attacking me, we can have a reasonable, intelligent conversation and you can tell me which points you felt weren't backed up enough? I'll gladly present facts to any claim I've made in here. I will admit I was rather vague with some of the backing just for the sake of saving time. -
11-16-2015, 07:03 PMNekoteeI do suppose that you're speaking about the DPS toolkit...Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyAreku
Because in term of healing the toolkit is fine. You can deal with all the situation with all the spell you have. Plus if good rng your card will ease it up even more.
...
By the way, you said that a class that have a dozen more heal or healing CD is better...
With this statement
Whm is first with one more ability than AST
Ast is second because SCH is last with nearly no healing spell beside physic and adlo
It's not how many spell or great CD you have that make a good heal... It's how they are used and fit the situation
Sorry nothing is obvious
And the AST after boost is on par with the other, no more no less -
11-16-2015, 11:09 PMVlady
I am biased when I am asking for each job to remain relevant in thier own category? White mage should be the supreme raw healer in numbers. Scholar should be the mitigation with the toolkit to help with damage. Astrologian should be able to use both stances during combat and bring group buffs and thier own unique healing mechanic which we have a golden opportunity with nocturnal.
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11-16-2015, 11:56 PMLeigaon
Came here for this and lots of great little tips for playing AST. I just started last night and I was loving it trying to remember the cards..I'm a White mage and SCH normally, so I figured AST would be territory I was use to.
So far the healing is fine but maybe that changes later? I'm not talking about Savage, I never plan to go into Savage. Right now I enjoy having my instant heal at a low level and am ready to start managing my regens / shields as time goes on.
One thing I was wondering though are the cards, it seems that a lot of people are not aware of them even being on them. Or if they are casted on them, what they do. I guess I need to make macros, if anyone has any short handed descriptions I can let people know what they go.
I understand my use of cards will change down the road..using RR to boost the next or what I have stored. Still there's have already been some times where I will cast say the spear, on a heavy OGCD job like a PLD who normally buffs up before boss runs, won't bother or activate before I can give it which is my fault for not letting them know I guess.
Or Ewer for the BLM who might be able to get off an extra fire spell? Or is it not that potent?
From what I've read and my understanding two things, so please correct me.
Spear: Reduces OGCD by 20% only ones that are activated at that point? So ones that are already activated, it won't help them at all? I was hoping it would, then that would help a lot more but maybe that's too OP of a change to ask for.
Shuffle: I originally thought it was "Okay I got spear..shuffle" and it would take Spear out of the equation so I can get Balance or something else. Seems that's not the case..I guess there's nothing I can do to fight against that is there? Unless they change it? -
11-17-2015, 12:51 AMNekotee
We would all move to macro pour card to let people know when and what they do...
But it would require like 24 macro for all card and RR card
NEVER use Ewer on a black mage, he will hate you so much for messing up his cycle
Spear... Useful for RR
Or if you are about to use luminiferous aether or any of you long CD (useless on essential dignity) -
11-17-2015, 01:16 AMLeigaonSo it's not about whether it gives them more MP to do anything it's the fact they have to break their current DPS cycle? Limits it a bit more then I guess since I don't think it helps DRK's at all, as a SMN I don't ever really have MP issues unless I'm just not paying attention. Guess that leaves it for...PLDs? Would it even benefit a bard keeping buffs up a bit longer if needed?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekotee
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11-17-2015, 08:01 AMVlady
Bards cant benefit from mana song do I doubt ewer refresh would work.
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11-17-2015, 08:19 AMSleighBRD (and MCH) receive the benefits of all MP restorations, including when they themselves use it. The only limitation they have is that BRD can't Battle Voice Ballad and receive double MP restored itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlady
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11-17-2015, 05:50 PMNekoteeEvery BLM work with their mana pool, they know when to transpose/flare or any of their skill they work with their mana limitationQuote:
Originally Posted by Leigaon
You give them more mp, they will be temps to use one more spell and everything will be ruined (loss of enochian wrong thunder timing)
The only thing they do love is arrow that allow them a greater spell management or balance stronger DPS
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Ewer is mostly for healer and bard for longer buff only if the situation is not too tight for healer XD -
11-17-2015, 08:29 PMVladyAah ok. I guess its only for dark knights that refresh does not affect when they use mana burning ability darkside?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleigh
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11-17-2015, 08:32 PMNekotee
Yes because drk skill forbid all external mana regen
Less for him more for the heal \o/ -
11-17-2015, 10:08 PMLeigaonI have been asking questions from the jobs like crazy to better understand. It seems that basically they are dedicated to that rotation and really I was told they just ignore it if the refresh is given to them and continue to do their normal rotation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekotee
...I will go with I understand and leave it at that for the black mages, they do get arrow though when I see it benefits them. Still I kept doing dungeons and reached 35 where I can now play with Royal Road.
I've created Macros and I've learned a lot. First half don't know if we put it on them outside of raiding. Secondly most don't even know what the cards do. All they know is that it should be on them because they were told so. Some do notice when I use a card due to the animation, sometimes I will admit I am healing / esuna / or might be in DPS mode too long and they'll mention I have not used a card in a while. A while being 15 seconds or so past the actual CD, which is a lot in this game.
This is making me create a royal road macro to let people know I've taken time to put the card back in and what the next buff will do. This is unnecessary micro managing, but I enjoy that. I got voice commands for my tank lol
I am so far enjoying the job...in this job communication is by far helping me do things and letting other users know what's going on. Some will react, some will do nothing. I do see there are a few flaws and hope that S.E. fixes them.
I do not like how the spear doesn't reduce cool downs already activated, it seems best used for pre-pulling. Spear and Ewer I can see being used mostly for the RR, or I have started casting it on myself then activating lightspeed for some speedy heals / MP management.
I love our first regen based spell. It's a bit shorter but I feel it's an instant heal that also makes up for the few ticks I get as WHM. Plus normally as a WHM I will regen a troubled player such as a DPS and want to make sure they get in a safe range so I'll maybe throw in a cure if I see they have a history of being in danger of dying. That cure is usually too big and lets the regen go to waste, this AST one though is perfect. -
11-17-2015, 11:00 PMNekotee
If you had the patience to create the 24 macro for your card
Then I admire you XD
Spear do reduced CD that have been activited... But it only work on the overall cooldown...
So if the CD is already 25% refresh the spear is useless.
Which is... 98% of the time (well maybe it make you gain 2/3 second on draw or essentiel dignity... But merely useless..)
Ultimately
The best card is balance it benefit everyone except full healer (would be fun to have balance enhanced pour heal from 10%)
Arrow work best for Blm and smn. Mnk, nin, brd, drg will like it but it will burn their TP. Tank and heal will be... "Meeeh"
Bole work for tank enhanced or long it always good
Ewer on heal or bard, smn won't mind too, Blm will dislike it
The spire, every physical will appreciate that, mnk, nin and drg first. Brd and mch if they aoe, tank if they go wild. Useless on EVERY caster XD -
11-17-2015, 11:18 PMRongwayIt does change...it gets better. With Synastry, if you heal someone other than the synaster, the total potency of Benefic is 400 * 1.2 * 1.4 = 672; you're basically splitting a cheaper Benefic II unevenly between two people. And then as mentioned previously, once you have Collective Unconscious, you have the option to put up a triple regen that heals almost as much as a Benefic every three seconds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leigaon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leigaon
It's nice that you took the time to make macros, but it's not really necessary. If people are so focused on what they're doing that they don't notice the buff flytext or buff panel, they won't notice the /p notification (or worse, notice it and get distracted).Quote:
Originally Posted by Leigaon
For the people who do notice, behavior change while buffed will be minimal, with the exception of a decently timed Spear, where someone might decide to activate a support ability a few seconds earlier than he would have otherwise. And aside from that, most people will just do what they would have been doing anyway; so the only person whose behavior is significantly dictated by the cards is the AST using them.
As for Royal Road and Shuffle, sure, some cards aren't as desirable as others, but keep in mind that if you Shuffle-cancel or Royal Road-Royal Road or Draw-cancel too often, you're losing a lot of potential buff-person-seconds. If there isn't a very specific, difficult phase that you're saving a very specific combo for, you might as well just use some of the cards that you initially want to throw away, just to avoid going two minutes without actually playing any cards at all. -
11-17-2015, 11:35 PMNamoNanamoDon't forget that healer dps too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekotee
So arrow and Balance is still useful. And Arrow can help when everybody need some heal.
Better, I tested it with Swiftcast and it doesn't reduce his cd if you used it before Spear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekotee
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11-18-2015, 12:47 AMLeigaonThat might explain why I didn't notice it. So it is doing it but just that it already went past the point. That's good to know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekotee
Lol not at 24 yet, but I keep them general, letting the users know a general idea of what's happening..and being maybe too optimistic for my own good hopefully they can figure the extra details out themselves.
Would it be too powerful if they made it a reduction of anything casting + what's remaining on the cool down? Otherwise I was trying to use it on PLD pre-pull. They pop a few things anyways, so the macro can help at least warn them. It's a 50/50 shot..Quote:
Originally Posted by NamoNanamo
Synastry sounds a bit like a SCH fairy but not independent. Which sounds fun!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rongway
Yes the macros are mostly for me, and those who care to. That's just me though, I mean I let people know when I use benediction. That's just because I work IRL in an environment that is mainly focused on letting everyone know what's happening.
I just unlocked lv35 this morning so I'm excited to see what I will do. I enjoy the buffing aspect a lot -
11-18-2015, 12:52 AMMarianno
Thank you everyone for your feedback on how I can be a better healer in my AST job. I have been trying out everything and I have seen some improvements :-)
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11-18-2015, 02:25 PMFoxyArekuHalf of their abilities are related to card buffs, which hurts their ability to keep up in throughput.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekotee
Again...worst is not the same as bad. Astro is worse than both scholar and white mage in both healing throughput and damage done. This doesn't mean that they aren't fine for all the content currently in the game, at all. I'm not sure what we're even debating anymore, nor how I can spell this out for you any further. Compare an AST healing numbers to the numbers capable by the other two jobs and AST will always come out last, I'll number crunch for you if that's what you're wanting.
Also for scholar-you forgot succor, emergency tactics, lustrate, indom, Embrace, Whispering Dawn, Fey Illumination, and dissipation. Cooldowns and oGCDs count, since AST has a ridiculous low amount of them related to healing (Essential Dignity and Synastry are about it, you can maybe count lightspeed too if you're feeling lenient).
Aetherflow and Energy Drain also makes a scholar's mana management a lot easier and more reliable than an astrologian.
I guess what I asked of you was too hard. ;P Oh well.Quote:
Originally Posted by NamoNanamo
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11-18-2015, 04:22 PMAzureFlareDon't. Really, go ahead and number crunch, but you'll never get a spreadsheet consistent with a fight unless it is like.. Faust 2.0 or something. And AST ogcd/cooldown isn't 'ridiculously low', they are on par with WHM. What is low is the amount of healing AST can do directly through OGCD/ability (WHM Assize/Tetra/Bene vs AST Essential Dignity vs SCH Lustrate).Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyAreku
Most people forget Celestial Opposition becomes powerful the moment you get to combo it into your other abilities, but this has the innate weakness of blowing all your abilities just for potency, the same way you'll almost never see a situation where you need to stack PoM and DS as a WHM. CO 'can' be a 300 potency heal if you combo it in CU (80 per target for A.Helios), almost rivaling Assize. It 'can' be giving you extra Benefic 2s worth of mana (Lightspeed combo), it 'can' give you more single target potency (Synastry/Aspected Benefic). The same way Time Dilation 'can' give you 5 Aspected Benefic, 5 Aspected Helios and 5 CU ticks, which is a total of 1650 potency (rivaling Lustrate potency-wise when all 3 Aetherflow are spent on it).
But that requires the Astrologian to have both a need for those combos and be in Diurnal, on top of coordinating to pull them off. If all those 'can's don't show the exact reason people tend to prefer WHM over AST still, I don't know what else.
AST vs SCH is a non-debate because SCH is the best pseudo-DPS/Healer hybrid of the three. You only need them for burst/mitigation checks and otherwise a SCH is just a DPS with an easier rotation and lower output. -
11-18-2015, 06:49 PMNekotee
Crap i was thinking how to answer foxy...
But azure got it all before me XD
I second the statement
I was healing with a whm who stuff it with as much high piece as he can
While I got the unfortunate experience of switching main (SCH then AST after 3.07) so my eso were split between them
My AST had like 4/5 ilevel différence with the whm
And I was able to heal more than him
And after test my spell were stronger than his (cure vs benefic)
And I was diurnal
...
@Namo
Yeah true... The arrow isgrzat for healer too
Balance only for a SCH in full DPS
But won't use it on a whm if there is better DPS inthe group
And yeah it work on all cooldown before and after the card
But cooldown must be use only a few sec before/after the card
If there is 30sec left on swiftcast CD the spear won't work
60 * 0.8 = 48 sec -
11-18-2015, 06:58 PMFoxyArekuYeah, you pinned the nail on the head really.Quote:
Originally Posted by AzureFlare
Honestly this whole conversation has just gotten kinda silly, I don't understand all the needless white knighting people do for astrologian on this forum. Really, it'll probably always be the worst. But that doesn't mean it can't be good, and it is. I just think it wouldn't hurt for it to be put on par. -
11-18-2015, 08:04 PMNekotee
The thing is.. That you and only you don't see it on par with the other
The AST is not the worst, he has his shining moment like the whm and SCH has
Everything is situationnal
And azure show it quite well how AST can make up the difference with both healer -
11-19-2015, 01:08 AMAzureFlare
There are just some glaring annoyances with AST that people would like different, and in their zealotry people forget that AST isn't that weak on the healing front at all. I don't blame them though, I've seen people only ever using CO on AoE cards, people only ever using AoE cards to begin with, people using Time Dilation on a halved potency card, you name it. Some of the skills aren't as clear in how they should be used and it is easy to get stuck in the mentality that CO/TD = solely card extension.
At least with TD, it becomes a really interesting option to toss a blank Bole on the MT and extend your HoTs with the bole. Boom, pretty good mana-saver right there. Or you could wait and extend only an Enhanced Balance for damage. It doesn't have the comfort of a fairy free-healing, Medica 2's superior range or a disjointed AoE heal (Cure 3/Whispering Dawn), but we have other comforts like lower base manacosts. Comfort can be added without severely affecting potencies, too.
Other obvious stuff is Royal Road baiting (double/triple Ewer/Spire), Spear being really situational (and fairly useless using its own RR buff), Shuffle giving the same card, interactions with Noc shields being lackluster compared to Diu HoTs, Spire being really situational, arguably not needed the way SE's TP design is going. But after giving it second thoughts, stuff like 'let's make CO also have an AoE heal like Assize!' would make any skilled AST blatantly overpower any WHM. Tackle Nocturnal potencies, comfort and reliability, don't tackle global/Diurnal potencies.
On topic: don't get baited into the mindset which number crunchers or fanatics lay out for you too much. Most of them would grill you for even thinking about using Spread on a Bole or a Spear. A skilled AST makes the most out of the situation and doesn't expect the situation to magically convert to how you want it. Test around with your abilities (especially interactions between them) and see how it fits you. If you struggle with a situation, try a different combination the next time. Sometimes, you'd be surprised how useful it can be to never even Royal Road or Shuffle a card, other times you want to RR every second/third card. Practice and make it your own. -
11-19-2015, 03:07 AMStaris
AST Vs WHM is fine.
The bigger problem is the strength of SCH making WHM in some situations better simply because MND buffs SCH.
I mean lets face it if there was a fight with low AOE healing, and/or large uptime on aoe targets, like a harder A2S, 2 SCH could be more ideal than any other combination, and that's broken. -
11-19-2015, 04:33 AMAzureFlarehttp://i.giphy.com/1Z02vuppxP1Pa.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Staris
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11-19-2015, 06:13 AMKacho_NachoThat's wonderful to hear! May you have many enjoyable healing runs in the future. Don't forget about looking the part! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Marianno
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11-19-2015, 11:35 AMNamoNanamo? It doesn't work like you said. IF you use A CD BEFORE the spear, you don't have any reduc cd. I've redo Tested with swiftcast and it shows me the same result. My experiment is simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekotee
SPAM Draw to get Spear=> Swiftcast=> use spear 0.5 sec after=> Look timer=> It doesn't change anything. So it doesn't work even if you use it a few sec before the card. BUT, Be careful, the recast time will show you the recast timer "48sec" but it's not the real timer. If you want to see it, put your mouse on the spell, use it, look at the picture and you will see the real cd.
So i'm confused, You don't seems to understand me. I didn't use a chronometer but I will.
Plz, don't say things like, it hurts me a lot.Quote:
My AST had like 4/5 ilevel différence with the whm
And I was able to heal more than him
And after test my spell were stronger than his (cure vs benefic)
And I was diurnal
I've done and down Thordan with my Ast Noc Shield And It's pretty good. You need to move a lot so you can use aspected Benefic while you run. Light Speed is fantastic when you need to aoe heal while you run ;o.
Synastry is fine. CU always help a bit. And I got my Heavensmeter.
Clearly, Ast is a good choice for this fight. And the arena is little so you can aoe (heal/shield/card) without miss someone. And there was multiple down time that let you prepare your card.
Thordan is really friendly for Astrologian.
I mostly agree. But you can use time dilation on halved potency card. It's not that bad. You need to adapt. Rng is rng :xQuote:
Originally Posted by AzureFlare
For the lower mana cost. Only for benefic/II, helios/Aspected helios and Gravity.
Aspected benefic cost more than regen. And whm got Free cure/Assize. And stone III MaleficII cost the same.
But, Ast got co/ewer/Aether combo.
It's maybe something but I play Noct Sect, I used A lot of Aspected Benefic and you need to be careful about your mana consumption. -
11-19-2015, 04:42 PMFoxyArekuActually, it's pretty widely accepted that AST is the worst in regards to DPS and healing throughput. Especially when it comes to alexander savage, there's a reason none of the big raiding groups use it (at least last I checked, someone might have picked it up, but I doubt it). I think you misinterpretted Azure's post, as if anything it hurt your argument more than helped. That ridiculous amount of setup just to do what a white mage can do by pressing one button? This is what I'm talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekotee
Like...can you mention even one way that AST is better than scholar or white mage? Because I can't think of any. The perk of it is buffing other people, but there are times in savage where Scholar can do more damage than an AST can with the buffs factored in (mainly in A2, but still), and for throughput, Scholar beats it out very heavily in every possible situation short of them having zero aetherflow. (Of course, this is comparing to nocturnal, since that is supposed to be the scholar replacement stance) and white mage isn't even a contest since white mage is the god of throughput.
Like...I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be rude here, but you keep saying AST isn't the worst healer, yet don't bring up any way that it's better than a white mage or scholar. Look at it like this: If you don't think AST is the worst, than which healer do you think is the worst? Because there always has to be a bottom of the barrel. Perfect balance is impossible.
Once again, being the worst does not mean it is bad. Please accept that. -
11-19-2015, 05:48 PMAzureFlareYou're correct. It boiled down to 'Sure, an AST can match a WHM, but you need to do so much more work for it and be lucky to have the stars align. Comparing to SCH is pretty pointless.' You could sort of say WHM is the pubstomper healer, but WHM and AST even out in a vacuum at higher skill levels.Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyAreku
Noc AST becomes better than SCH when you make high mobility requirements, fights with a lot of setup and small burst segments and/or have fights that benefit a lot from having instant-cast shields. The latter is really just a few cases in T10 (double Prey), the former two are, as Namo said, more apparent in Thordan where DPS over the whole fight isn't such a big requirement compared to burst DPS on the checks (given, I have not done the entire fight yet but I know where the idea comes from). As Noc you sacrifice a ton of HPS for instant cast shields and mobility, in a game that is so slow and scripted you really don't need it for anything else but Frontlines, and tuning fights towards this mobility/rate of resisting interruption isn't fair to not only SCH and WHM, but also to BLM and arguably BRD/MCH/SMN.
I think Thordan might be the first fight where I prefer Noc over Diu when pairing with a WHM (without noc being a necessity), all things considered. -
11-19-2015, 06:22 PMNekotee
@Namo
Oh ok thx for check for the spear
Then this card is even more harder to use
(I was pretty sûre that it work even on CD that be used... But since i did not use spear in a loooong time...)
@Foxy
A situation when AST is better than the other ?
Pretty easy
Alexander 1 savage, the double prey + plasma is a piece of cake for the AST because of synastry
The jump are easily deal with his collective unconscious
Popping lumAether right before and flashing CO make everything easier
But one thing I completely agree with you is the DPS...
SCH and WHM are both far far better
...
Oh good to know that noct AST is good for thordan
Now i need some more experience with the fight...
I only know it on paper....