Can we get an Official clarification on housing Demolish timer (45 or 90?)

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Originally Posted by sirDarts

The reason why Plots need to be emptied is because of availability, so your comparison is completely useless.

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Ok, I think I'll have to explain it with apples and oranges and cute drawings.

Ok, no.

It seems to me that you either don't own your own house (hence why you want this to be implemented in this way and why you don't know what owning a house implies and feels like) or don't really care about the one you own. So, I'm putting this into the perspective of "what if you were to lose something else that is very VERY valuable to you, that you put a LOT of work towards and that you would be terribly mad if you lost it for something like not subbing for a month". Forget the availability part for a moment. I know, I know it's the center of this issue, the reason why this system is being implemented, but I'm trying to make you feel some SYMPATHY for those who are gonna lose something very dear to them, for which they worked very very hard and for which they'll be so mad when they lose it for something as stupid as not being able to take a break from the game ever.

I must say, I was expecting something like this to be implemented, but not for such a short window as 45 days. It feels really unfair. I know it's unfair that you're unable to get your own house, but it's not MY fault either that the devs didn't plan the whole housing system better in advance. I would love for you to have your house too, but that doesn't mean it would be ok to pillage on mine if -God forbid- I skip subbing for a month.

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Originally Posted by Sicno

*snip*

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My FC does own a house.
Btw, comparing it with a Zeta doesn't really work, I don't own a Zeta. ;)

It doesn't matter how much you worked to get it, if you are not using it, you are just wasting something someone else could use better, and 45 days is nowhere near a short time.
Also 45 days != month.

As said, if you are not going to log in once every 45 days, then the house was not dear enough to you, and thus there is no sympathy to be had.

...Ok, I give up. People can't have any kind of sympathy around here. Just ravens waiting to eat on the people around them.

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Originally Posted by Sicno

It seems to me that you either don't own your own house (hence why you want this to be implemented in this way and why you don't know what owning a house implies and feels like) or don't really care about the one you own.

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FC House, 2 Airships rank 50 2 others otw stuffed with furnitures worth tens of millions + a personal cottage for reasons. I port to each of those at least 3-4 times each day im on depending which is closer where i am atm plus i havent been in a city except for quests/leves/events since month

so - no, i don't feel sorry for anyone who looses their house if they unsub for 45+ days. Probably because im subbed since day one with 900 days on my veteran reward ;P

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Originally Posted by Sicno

...Ok, I give up. People can't have any kind of sympathy around here. Just ravens waiting to eat on the people around them.

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I can feel sympathy for those who will lose out, but I also understand the situation with the housing availability. Why should we care about someone who decided to stop paying? It's very obvious why SE wouldn't cater to those who decided not to continue paying. They are catering to their player base whom DOES still play. If you only wish to take a month break, that's fine. You'll still have 15 days to resub and enter your house once.

If you decide to go on a 2 month hiatus, say bye bye house. I have leveled my character from 0 to 52 WHILE sharing my account with my gf whom has a lvl 50 summoner and 6 different crafting/gathering classes in the high 40's all in about 2 month's time. Low and behold, I've been playing my heart out and still had to wait nearly a month with my FC on a LOW POP SERVER to find a house. So yes, call me a raven, I'm fine with it. I can't imagine the wait on a highly populated world if my low pop one is scarce in available housing. But people can easily get to a high level where houses are wanted/needed in the time frame it took you to come back from your "break".

I'm not sure why entering the house is needed frankly as long as you're a paying customer and subbed to the game. There are real life issues that can keep people away for more than 45 days and if they are paying the subscription fee they should be entitled to whatever it is they are subbed to.

You're mixing up FC housing and personal housing. For FC houses if NOBODY uses the house for 45 days I can agree the FC is dead and the house should be relinquished for others to use. It's a different case when a single person can't take a break from it.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

I'm not sure why entering the house is needed frankly as long as you're a paying customer and subbed to the game. There are real life issues that can keep people away for more than 45 days and if they are paying the subscription fee they should be entitled to whatever it is they are subbed to.

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There are no RL issues that can cause a 45-day period where you absolutely CAN'T log in for like a minute, while able to pay a subscription.
And if you actually come up with something so drastic, then losing some virtual items should be the least of your concerns.

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Originally Posted by sirDarts

There are no RL issues that can cause a 45-day period where you absolutely CAN'T log in for like a minute, while able to pay a subscription.
And if you actually come up with something so drastic, then losing some virtual items should be the least of your concerns.

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Oh I disagree and if you're a paying customer you should be entitled to whatever you're sub is paying for. Sorry I disagree cause there are some real life issues like military deployment, illness and more that can keep people away for more than 45 days. Why does entering the house need to apply if you're paying for the sub and the game.

45 days is enough for grace period, if person can't be bothered to log in for least 2 minutes during that time frame then the house is not that important to them.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Oh I disagree and if you're a paying customer you should be entitled to whatever you're sub is paying for. Sorry I disagree cause there are some real life issues like military deployment, illness and more that can keep people away for more than 45 days. Why does entering the house need to apply if you're paying for the sub and the game.

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I can agree to some extent. There are factor's that could take you away for 45+ days. Military deployment would be one of the bigger one's, but then, I would also have to agree with sirDarts statement. At that point, losing some virtual items should be the least of your concerns. And if it's military deployment, it doesn't mean they can't access unless it's in a war zone or 3rd world country. And those deployments are usually 3-9 months (to which, yes, I will say, it would kinda suck to come back and see your stuff gone). Otherwise, deployments will usually just take you somewhere where you'll have internet and be staying there for probably a few years. On top of this, what if a person is deployed into a war zone, but had a long subscription going and died on duty? I hardly feel any of his family would bother to cancel his sub (sorry for being morbid, a lot of my family is involved in military, so please don't view my statement as not caring for them).

IF you have an illness that prevents you from accessing the internet, then yea, you shouldn't really be worrying about your game account. That to me, would signify you have a potentially terminal disease or you are in a coma (in which case, you REALLY probably wouldn't care about your FF account). Sorry for being morbid, but these cases are all one's in which I highly doubt the person would care that they lost a virtual house if they are so sick they can't even play.

I can't think of any other reasons (other than boredom or cheapness) that would prevent someone from being able to log in once in 45 days for a minute to preserve their house.

So what happens on servers where there are still houses available? I'm assuming a guy who takes a 2 month break gets his personal house demolished despite there being open plots next door?

Maybe this should be something they switch on and off depending on the realm. You can argue all day as to who is more entitled to having an in-game house, be the simple fact is that it sucks to have something you invested in taken from you, no matter the reason. But yeah, that's an issue they should have thought out better before putting instanced housing in the game originally.

None of this would be an issue if SE simply created a proper housing system where EVERYONE could have a "house". :P

I just want a small room/studio that I can decorate myself, and have access to gardening (indoor flowerpots) and possibly some stable options. I don't need a fancy house in a large neighborhood instance.

They could then leave the existing homes for those who DO want the full house experience.

But yeah, that's all wishful thinking at this point.

The argument that having IRL issues and your FFXIV account "should be the least of your concerns" holds no weight. It's not even an argument. Value is completely subjective and others do not and will not decide what is of concern to anyone but themselves.

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Originally Posted by Malicewolf

IF you have an illness that prevents you from accessing the internet, then yea, you shouldn't really be worrying about your game account. That to me, would signify you have a potentially terminal disease or you are in a coma (in

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Being sick shouldn't be a reason to lose ones house in a game. The fact that you have more real issues to worry about shouldn't be a rational for losing anything if you're taking the time to pay a sub for a game. Perhaps if you had a serious illness you'd understand but I don't suspect you do (at least I hope not). I just find this concept of having to enter the house physically to be a bit odd if you're a paying customer you should be entitled to whatever your sub fee is paying for.

I think the main issue here is to try and deal with those who have stopped subbing and reclaim their housing given they aren't in fact using it and it should be made available for others to use instead.

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Originally Posted by Gunspec

So what happens on servers where there are still houses available? I'm assuming a guy who takes a 2 month break gets his personal house demolished despite there being open plots next door?

Maybe this should be something they switch on and off depending on the realm. You can argue all day as to who is more entitled to having an in-game house, be the simple fact is that it sucks to have something you invested in taken from you, no matter the reason. But yeah, that's an issue they should have thought out better before putting instanced housing in the game originally.

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This is a very good point. At that point taking their house away would be messed up especially if they are still paying a sub and there is no house shortage or demand on said server.

45 days is too few for a personal home. Lot of people take breaks for various reasons, it doesn't mean they're unworthy of their achievement.

Not sure how I feel about this. While people have worked hard for their homes, if they're not actually using it, and someone else could be, it makes sense. Only pointing this out for the sake of thread argument but I personally do have an illness and if I couldn't be online for those 45 days it would make sense for someone else who is active to use that plot. I guess the time scale could be longer, but when is it long enough?

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Being sick shouldn't be a reason to lose ones house in a game. The fact that you have more real issues to worry about shouldn't be a rational for losing anything if you're taking the time to pay a sub for a game. Perhaps if you had a serious illness you'd understand but I don't suspect you do (at least I hope not). I just find this concept of having to enter the house physically to be a bit odd if you're a paying customer you should be entitled to whatever your sub fee is paying for.

I think the main issue here is to try and deal with those who have stopped subbing and reclaim their housing given they aren't in fact using it and it should be made available for others to use instead.

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No, I do not have an illness which would prevent me from logging into the game for 45 days in a row. I will say, if someone was in a coma for 46 days, I would feel REALLY bad for them. But otherwise, I cannot think of any illness's that would prevent a 45 day gap that wouldn't also be cause for simply not coming back at all. Even someone going through cancer and chemo would be able to log on (as they don't simply keep you in the hospital forever from illness). IF you had a highly contagious disease, then you'd be quarantined, but once again, doesn't mean you can't access the internet and play. For those cases, they are quite accommodating usually.

Just because you pay, doesn't mean you play. There are also simply people who have a lot of money and just let accounts continuously auto repay subs for a while before they finally cancel it. Honestly, I wouldn't care if they gave more time, but nor do I think 45 days is too short of a time period. As I said, I've gone through all pre-heavensward content in about 2 months time. There are still people joining this game as new players who are looking for a spot to call their own. Yet, we have some with multiple that visit it once every 3 months that are complaining? If you REALLY want your own space, why not just buy a private room in your FC house? If you say "because I want more space to decorate", then ok, sure, that's fine by me IF you actually intend to utilize it.

You have 80 days essentially. 45 to not lose ANYTHING and an additional 35 to collect up the remnants if you couldn't visit once in 45 days.

I can see where people are saying as long as you paying a sub you should get to keep your house but lot of people pay monthly instead of extended. So if person on monthly sub decided to take a break for 2 months where they not paying a sub anymore they should continue to keep their house while the paying sub don't get a house cause it in limbo from the other person taking a break?

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Originally Posted by Sicno

UGH... PEOPLE, I'm not making a comparison about availability but about ownership and achievement. I'm starting to wonder if any of you actually owns a house because you clearly seem to have no idea what's it like to own a house and to now feel it's been taken hostage and that you'll lose it if at any point you skip a month.

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I own a house.

I cannot foresee a future in which I would be completely unavailable to 1. Not be able to log in at least once a month or 2. If totally incapacitated, not be able to communicate to one of my RL friends to grab my token and log me in to keep my house under a dire emergency. If I am straight up comatose for longer than 45 days, I think losing my house in the game would be the least of my worries.

While value is subjective, people need to be realistic here - if something DID happen to a player where they were unable to log in for 45 days, nor be able to communicate with a friend or family member and have them log in - I'm pretty sure they're not going to be worried about their house on FFXIV.

All it takes is for the player to log in, if they physically can't do this nor have anyone else to do this for them, then sorry but someone else who is actually active could be using and utilising the house which would otherwise be useless.

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Originally Posted by sirDarts

There are no RL issues that can cause a 45-day period where you absolutely CAN'T log in for like a minute, while able to pay a subscription.
And if you actually come up with something so drastic, then losing some virtual items should be the least of your concerns.

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Not true. The first thing that comes to mind is a military deployment. The next RL issues that come to mind are major hospitalization, major illness, death in the family, job loss...this stuff does happen and being able to look forward to returning to the game,without having your housing pulled out from under you, can be a real help getting through the tough times. 90 days would be a better time frame for a private estate, I can see the 45 day ticker on an FC. The best solution would be housing available to all players or an active, paid subscription would prevent the housing kick. FYI, I don't have housing.

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Originally Posted by Malicewolf

... I cannot think of any illness's that would prevent a 45 day gap that wouldn't also be cause for simply not coming back at all. Even someone going through cancer and chemo would be able to log on (as they don't simply keep you in the hospital forever from illness)...

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You've never known anyone with cancer or going through cancer treatments. There really are some things that will prevent you from being able to log in, even for two minutes, just because it hasn't happened to you yet doesn't mean they aren't legit. The people who do know are the ones saying that 60 or 90 days wold be a better time frame.

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Originally Posted by Darthzilla

Not true. The first thing that comes to mind is a military deployment. The next RL issues that come to mind are major hospitalization, major illness, death in the family, job loss...this stuff does happen and being able to look forward to returning to the game,without having your housing pulled out from under you, can be a real help getting through the tough times.

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Again, let's be realistic here, major hospitalisation, death and job loss? I'm pretty sure if this happened to people they wouldn't be concerned about their house on FFXIV. Plus they can get a friend or family member to log in for them. Remember they can still come back and play, they're not losing their account, just their house.

Just be glad you still have a character after you come back from not subbing. SE has no legal obligation to store your 1s and 0s free of charge while you are not paying your subscription. No money, no housey!

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Originally Posted by Darthzilla

You've never known anyone with cancer or going through cancer treatments. There really are some things that will prevent you from being able to log in, even for two minutes, just because it hasn't happened to you yet doesn't mean they aren't legit. The people who do know are the ones saying that 60 or 90 days wold be a better time frame.

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Also sorry but I have an illness which forces me to have IV treatment and very regular hospital visits, a lot of people who are seriously ill actually have more time available to them too since they undergo treatment at home and can't work. Even if I was hospitalised for a month, this wouldn't stop me from asking a friend to log in for me. Please stop using illness as an excuse for this.

It's actually kind of offensive using this as an excuse, illness, death, or military deployment does not make anyone more entitled to anything than the next paying customer.

Also, you really shouldn't tell people whether or not they have known people undergoing cancer treatments.

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Originally Posted by Darthzilla

You've never known anyone with cancer or going through cancer treatments. There really are some things that will prevent you from being able to log in, even for two minutes, just because it hasn't happened to you yet doesn't mean they aren't legit. The people who do know are the ones saying that 60 or 90 days wold be a better time frame.

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Yes you might not want to be on for long periods but it does not prevent you from logging in for short amount of time, I have been down that path of cancer and the treatment.

Ok, you're all right and I'm wrong. There is absolutely nothing in the known universe that is a valid reason for not being able to log in during any given 45 day period. I don't know what came over me for suggesting otherwise. There is no valid reason for ever needing to be out of game for longer than 45 days.

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Originally Posted by Darthzilla

Ok, you're all right and I'm wrong. There is absolutely nothing in the known universe that is a valid reason for not being able to log in during any given 45 day period. I don't know what came over me for suggesting otherwise. There is no valid reason for ever needing to be out of game for longer than 45 days.

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It's not about it being a valid reason, it's about it being fair for ALL players and not just the people who can't log in. Players who pay money for their subscription can't get a house right now while there's a ton of people who haven't logged on for a year. For whatever reason, if you can't log in for those 45 days, it's only fair that someone else gets a chance at having a house.

My best friend's dad briefly picked up 1.0 while he was undergoing chemotherapy for leukemia. His biggest complaint was that the hospital's WiFi game was too weak for him to actually play DURING treatments.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

My best friend's dad briefly picked up 1.0 while he was undergoing chemotherapy for leukemia. His biggest complaint was that the hospital's WiFi game was too weak for him to actually play DURING treatments.

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Yeah, people who have actually been or are ill know that it's completely unrealistic to say they couldn't log in at all for 45 days, especially when a lot of people who are ill have nothing to do during treatment and actually find themselves playing more.

Realistically, any illness beyond that (terminally ill or in a very bad state) would be silly to say they cared about their online, pixelated home anyway.

I get really defensive about this because it seems people are using illness as an excuse to want the time extended and it's very inconsiderate, when actually most people who are ill disagree.

We're not talking about not logging in for a year or not keeping your subscription paid, we're talking about 60 or 90 days kick timer instead of 45. 60 or 90 days won't hurt anyone and it would definitely be fair and still get the truly absent players out of the housing.

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Originally Posted by Darthzilla

We're not talking about not logging in for a year or not keeping your subscription paid, we're talking about 60 or 90 days kick timer instead of 45. 60 or 90 days won't hurt anyone and it would definitely be fair and still get the truly absent players out of the housing.

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What difference would that make other than extend the time that active players have to wait? As stated many times, all people have to do is log in which takes what, 60 seconds? And even if they can't access their PC or console, they can't get someone else to log in for them within those 45 whole days?

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

What difference would that make other than extend the time that active players have to wait?

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And what difference would it make to free the plots earlier? For the new house owners it means a month and a half less wait. For old owners it could easily mean a year's worth of work.

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Originally Posted by sirDarts

As said, if you are not going to log in once every 45 days, then the house was not dear enough to you, and thus there is no sympathy to be had.

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Dear god you are a terrible human being. Your personal greed knows no bounds if you think like this. Oh and darling, a FC house != a personal house.

Fact is, all of you people are acting like freaking ravens and saying stuff that would make any human being lower his head in shame (Seriously, saying cancer patients and military deployed shouldn't worry about their house, the hell?)

And all of this for.. a measily extra month and a half of wait? You do realize that this in no way solves the issue of housing availability, and chances are that all you people currently wishing all kind of foul things to house owners will probably still not be able to own a house with this system? Or is math too difficult?

The fun thing is that anyone who gets a house this way, will probably start complaining that "45 days is too short!" about a month after owning one.

Wait, 'wishing all kind of foul things to house owners'? Way to blow it way out of proportion much?

Oh, and nobody said 'cancer patients shouldn't worry about their house', the fact is that it takes two minutes to log in and save your house which is EASILY doable unless you're in some kind of vegetated state, which then (as you blew out of proportion again) leads me to say if they ARE in that state, do you honestly think they're going to be worried about that?

Don't twist people's words around in attempt to solidify your argument especially when some of the very people you're arguing against both 1) own houses and 2) are actually ill themselves. Getting pretty tired of people trying to 'white knight' when most of the people who actually come into contact with these situations think 45 days is fine.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/i.../Hatchling.png

This chocobo hatchling avatar. I want it.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

No offense, but then you are not someone SE will cater to. Not everyone burns through content quickly nor is running it all the want to do. Why should these players be punished when they're actively paying for those 3-5 month intervals because others have unsubbed to play something else? It's just bad business on SE's part, and makes far more sense to offer benefits to consistently paying customers as those are the people likely to stick with you longer.

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...? Aren't casual players the ones that unsub the most because FFXIV "isn't their whole life" like they've accussed hardcore people of doing and to play other games, the ones that have told hardcore people that it's okay to take a break and unsub then come back? You gotta be kidding me. You ask why should people who keep paying be punished, well, I could ask Why should people that own a house and pay for the game be punished if something happens that it's out of their control? They did not implement this flawed system in the first place. These people who own a house probably had to make some sacrifices to be able to find a plot of land and they deserve all the right to it since they found it and bought it first. Unless they completely stop playing, they deserve the plot they bought.

Whatever though, not surprised by the OF anymore.

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Originally Posted by sirDarts

There are no RL issues that can cause a 45-day period where you absolutely CAN'T log in for like a minute, while able to pay a subscription.
And if you actually come up with something so drastic, then losing some virtual items should be the least of your concerns.

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First time I sent my laptop to Asus to fix an issue with the display blinking out, it was gone for 6 weeks. They didn't fix it right, screen still blinked out once it got warmed up...discovered the low voltage signal cable to the monitor was crimped and shorting out...eventually it went for good and actually melted into the plastic. Had to send it back and it took me just over 8 weeks of wrangling with them about fixing it on their dime because THEY failed to do a proper inspection when I sent it back to them for the very problem the first time.

Just one example of a scenario where 45 days could not be long enough. May seem outlandish...but things do happen that could keep someone away from the game for extended time frames.

A RL friend was out of the game for months because of a botched transfer from PS3 to PS4. His laptop couldn't run it. What if he had played for 2 years straight, had a really nice personal house?

Losing a job and being on unemployment, not able to justify the expense of an online game during that time. What if they are out of work for more than 45 days before they feel they can resub? What if, again, they were loyal to a fault from Beta4 and have a nice personal estate set up?

Just saying....for the personal housing, they should probably give people a little more wiggle room than just a flat 45 days.

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Originally Posted by Tyla_Esmeraude

Why should people that own a house and pay for the game be punished if something happens that it's out of their control?

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Not aimed at you in particular, but if people just said 'I don't think 45 days is long enough' instead of dragging specific things like military deployment and illness into it then there would be a lot less arguments and people disagreeing with the whole situation.

A player who is paying their subscription and is actively playing has just as much entitlement as a player who can't play because of uncontrollable situations and the sooner people realise this, the better. Just because someone can't play because of something unfortunate does not give them any benefit over someone who actually is playing the game and wants a house.

I'm actually going to just leave this thread though since the OP's previous post kind of infuriates me. Can't believe people think it's okay to twist people's words like that.