Parsers and Problems

The only people against parsers are the ones that would be at the bottom of them. They should affect people, tbh. It's unfair that tanks and healers can be called out for doing bad, but you aren't allowed to hurt a DPS's feelings, because reasons.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Guess what will happen if this idiotic suggestion were carried out:

1) A certain forum that poisoned the FFXI community will post these parses in a stickered "Do not invite" thread.

2) Job discrimination will become far worse due to intellectually lazy sheep swallowing whatever the elitists put on the forums.

Group parsers is the absolute LAST thing this game and community needs.

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Everyone that would use a parser already is. They just dont say anything to you, they just replace you if they dont like your dps. If you think that the teams that have cleared savage are not using parsers you are 100% wrong.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Guess what will happen if this idiotic suggestion were carried out:

1) A certain forum that poisoned the FFXI community will post these parses in a stickered "Do not invite" thread.

2) Job discrimination will become far worse due to intellectually lazy sheep swallowing whatever the elitists put on the forums.

Group parsers is the absolute LAST thing this game and community needs.

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Naming and shaming isn't allowed on this forum from what I can recall, and other forums can still do so. Parsers are available already, and SE can't do anything if a player decided to post a parse of a stranger on a 3rd party forum. Regardless of that, the amount of people that post on the 1st party forums amounts to less than 5%, 3rd party forums? Likely less than 0.5%, wouldn't even make an impact.

Job discrimination is only a thing because parsers aren't available to the masses. If a MCH is in your party and you fail a DPS check, guess who the ass that's pulling less than 300 DPS is going to blame, that's right the MCH. People can't exactly disagree with him, and because of the stigma associated with that class they might even be kicked (though it's not as bad now as it used to be). With a parser people will actually be able to prove that they can pull the weight. I see no reason to be against parsers unless you (by you, I mean everyone who dislikes the idea of a parser so much) happen to not be pulling your weight in difficult trials/raids, or want those that don't to get away with it for whatever reason.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

Naming and shaming isn't allowed on this forum from

Job discrimination is only a thing because parsers aren't available to the masses. If a MCH is in your party and you fail a DPS check, guess who the ass that's pulling less than 300 DPS is going to blame, that's right the MCH. People can't exactly disagree with him, and because of the stigma associated with that class they might even be kicked (though it's not as bad now as it used to be). With a parser people will actually be able to prove that they can pull the weight. I see no reason to be against parsers unless you (by you, I mean everyone who dislikes the idea of a parser so much) happen to not be pulling your weight in difficult trials/raids, or want those that don't to get away with it for whatever .

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Bravo for this.
+3827262 for you sir.

Definitely not fair when you have somebody shit talking you 90% of a run when theyre performing under you, the arrogancy and ignorance of some players who claim to be casuals is astonishing, specially when they decide to pretend to be pros

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Originally Posted by Hayward

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I'm starting to think people like you are the last thing this community needs, who vehemently reject tools and information out of some kind of irrational exclusion paranoia. Nearly every thread within which you spew has you calling people who analyze any sort of information as "bean counters" who are always looking for ways to "discriminate" against the "casual players".

These forums have some of the highest anti-skill sentiment I have ever seen. If you are even remotely capable you are a "no-lifer" and if you prefer to consort with people who value that same competence in themselves you are an "elitist". If you even abstractly express a wish for a tool that would allow the community to better itself you are constantly sneered at with the non-rebuttal, "it's just a game; I play to have fun".

As though people who want an in-game parser, who remove underperforming players from farm parties, and who clear the highest level of raiding content with reasonable speed don't also play to "have fun". /eyeroll

On topic, a personal parser is a step in the right direction, though it won't solve the majority of problems that groups face. At worst, you'll have to go through the hassle of everyone posting screenshots of their individual parse values after every wipe in a farm party, which depending on your game interface (ie, PC vs. console) may not be so easy to provide. If you don't provide that info, you'll likely be replaced anyway, so I don't see much value in such a thing.

A dummy parse isn't bad, because while it is not indicative of actual encounters it still demonstrates whether or not a player has a basic grasp of the button sequences required to succeed at their chosen role. I don't think a player that pulls a perfect or near-perfect rotation on a dummy would be significantly impaired by boss mechanics...at least not to the extent that it would cause a group of equally-as-skilled players to wipe. I'd actually prefer a dummy parse over a personal one that displays after every encounter, mostly because the latter would lead to a lot of complications.

Obviously, what I would TRULY prefer is that everyone put on their big kid britches and rally for an actual in-game party parser that displays DPS for every encounter to be implemented. But I'd accept alternatives, as it would at least give motivated players the tools to try and better themselves.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

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http://replygif.net/i/1496.gif

Lemme say my point. Community is really good in this game when u compare with other game communities. If we loose that we will be missing a big part of our ff14 family. I know we need parsers addons etc. But putting it on every piece of content will rekt up this community thats why I said putting it as a sub option or maybe just making it avaible for only savages etc. is the only good option coz other contents are simply good without a high DPS. Only thing that needs to be parsed is savage for me right now coz thats the point u really need to know and care what you are doing. Ofc u guys can say trials like ravana has DPS tests also (shield part) but its not that hardcore and a casual dps numbers with a nice group can handle it there will be no nead for a parse in that.

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Originally Posted by graudon

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I can understand the sentiment here, but community issues are community issues and cases of harassment and bad player attitudes are ones that should be handled by the forum moderators and in-game GMs.

It should never ever be the case were concerns about the community are walls that prevent the game from taking positive steps forward in development, especially where it concerns tools that allow your players to become better at the game.

Allowing players to see their numbers and share accordingly through in-game means actually allows for more community development and discussion, you can see a lot of this already if you take a look at the job forums where things are posted like optimal rotation guides and BiS gear discussion etc, these are the building blocks that allow a community to actually form and flourish, to say that there will be an overall detriment to players as a whole is like trying to ban stopwatches from a track and field meet, or calculators in a math class.

There are already players who will use anything they can to harass others in game, report them and allow the GMs to handle those cases, but trying to shield the community from useful tools does not build a strong and productive playerbase nor does it paint a proper picture of the type of content that needs to be developed in the long run.

I could get behind the parser crowd if they were honest about why they want it. All this talk about "bettering the community" is nauseating. You want a parser to single out and kick "bad" dps. Just say that and move on. Its not as if a parser will make a bad dps good, so stop acting as if itll help them.

The issue here is that bad is relative, especially when youre using arbitrary numbers to make that determination.

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Originally Posted by Nightray

I hate parsers and don't want them. FF14 was voted as most accessible mmo for people with disabilities in 2013 because 14 is for everyone to enjoy, not just the few leets that want everyone to be as "good" as them. If people just embraced tolerance for us lowly casuals or others playing with different circumstances we could all get along. As long as 3rd party software remains against terms of service, i'll report anyone using a parser near me.

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"I'm casual" seems like a pretty bad excuse for being terrible at the game. There's nothing that stops a casual player from being good.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

I could get behind the parser crowd if they were honest about why they want it. All this talk about "bettering the community" is nauseating. You want a parser to single out and kick "bad" dps. Just say that and move on. Its not as if a parser will make a bad dps good, so stop acting as if itll help them.

The issue here is that bad is relative, especially when youre using arbitrary numbers to make that determination.

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I can honestly say i wouldn't straight kick a player for bad DPS in 90% of content, i would however attempt to point out that they were under performing if it was to the detriment of the 7 other players in the run trying to clear content and try to offer suggestions to improve.

If after suggestions for improvement are made and the player in question either refuses to improve or is simply unable (once again to the detriment of the 7 other players attempting to clear content) then at that point i would probably try to find a replacement, no different than anyone can do now with an under geared tank who keeps dying or a healer who is unable to keep up with the healing requirements of an encounter.

So why is it acceptable to do so in the case of a tank or a healer but not in concern to a DPS?

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Originally Posted by Ryel

So why is it acceptable to do so in the case of a tank or a healer but not in concern to a DPS?

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If I had to guess, its because a tank/healer knows theyll have responsibility going in and accepted that as part of the job. A DPS does not really have responsibility at the outset, so trying to introduce some will naturally create resistance.

Personally I take no issue with singling out DPS. I dont think itll be done intelligently though, given our track record.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

A DPS does not really have responsibility at the outset, so trying to introduce some will naturally create resistance.

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If it's generally agreed that the responsibility of a tank is to hold enmity and output damage while mitigating incoming damage (pop CDs) and the responsibility of a healer is to shield / keep the party alive. Would you not consider it the responsibility of a DPS to contribute enough damage to be able to progress / clear the fight, in addition to killing adds / handling whatever mechanics are required?

As far as content design is concerned any fight with a DPS check (hard enrage / wipe mechanic) is saying that DPS do hold a share of the responsibility in clearing a fight, so why are we unable to hold them accountable to the standards that the developers themselves are putting forward?

These aren't player requirements being put forward, but the very nature of the fights that are asking for a certain level of performance.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

Personally I take no issue with singling out DPS. I dont think itll be done intelligently though, given our track record.

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If fights are going to continue to be based around DPS checks then how can this be intelligently handled in the future? Any suggestions?

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

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My arguments would be irrational if you guys didn't have a mile-long reputation in other games (XI, in particular) for pulling this crap. Like I've said in other threads, personal parsers are fine since they serve your claimed purpose far more readily than group parsers and does not have the potential for abuse or drama, both of which appear to be the MO of many so-called "pro" endgamers calling for group parsers.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

It's a game and whether we like it or not everyone isn't going to perform to an optimum level to satisfy some. That should be no reason for them not to be able to queue for DF and play and have to be at the mercy of others as to whether or not they are vote kicked or trash talked.

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If you think players arent already being kicked for low performance without official parsers then you are deluding yourself. Main difference having parser support will show those who get kicked, why they got kicked. Most of the time it is pretty obvious, just watch a casters rotation, melee watch their buffs and debuffs. aka, MNK not using fists of fire even when told numerous times. DRG not using heavy thrust, dots etc.

eg without parser:
Myself and another Monk in DF. I'm averaging 1200 DPS. The other MNK is averaging 350, tank is averaging 500 dps. But due to my DPS and tanks things die fast so the other MNK thinks hes fine. Also is not receptive to any tips due to them thinking they are doing good.

With official parser support that MNK will see that they are MASSIVELY behind me and even behind the tank DPS wise. Any sane, rational person will realise they are doing something wrong, and hopefully start to look at their gameplay. I would happily give tips in that scenario because there would be proof that they need advice.

Also no-one cares outside of savage if players are not optimal. If they are playing at least at a level to clear the content and not be carried by everyone else (aka a massive disparity like I highlighted prior). Then it will be ignored. The problems are when content is NOT being cleared.

Withholding an important tool. yes, it is important due to the enrage DPS checks in end game. Because a small number MAY abuse it is selfish towards the majority. Also, if they added official parser support it won't suddenly stop players being able to report abusive players just like now. So, if someone is abusive, use the system and report them.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

I could get behind the parser crowd if they were honest about why they want it. All this talk about "bettering the community" is nauseating. You want a parser to single out and kick "bad" dps. Just say that and move on. Its not as if a parser will make a bad dps good, so stop acting as if itll help them.

The issue here is that bad is relative, especially when youre using arbitrary numbers to make that determination.

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I could get behind the people against parsers crowd if they were honest about why they don't want it.

Accept the fact that some of us actually do want tools for the community so they can perform better at their chosen role. The more people who can play decently well, the more pick up group runs that go smoother with less bickering and more relaxed atmospheres.

As for the notion that a parser doesn't make a bad dps good, the majority of the people whom I have known over the years have only gotten better at being a DPS when I introduce them to a way to measure themselves.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

I could get behind the parser crowd if they were honest about why they want it. All this talk about "bettering the community" is nauseating. You want a parser to single out and kick "bad" dps. Just say that and move on. Its not as if a parser will make a bad dps good, so stop acting as if itll help them.

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Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

Doesn't make it true though.

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Originally Posted by Nightray

I hate parsers and don't want them. FF14 was voted as most accessible mmo for people with disabilities in 2013 because 14 is for everyone to enjoy, not just the few leets that want everyone to be as "good" as them. If people just embraced tolerance for us lowly casuals or others playing with different circumstances we could all get along. As long as 3rd party software remains against terms of service, i'll report anyone using a parser near me.

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Really hope you stick to fates for levelling instead of imposing your "any dps is good dps" mentality in a game where dps is arguably the main mechanic. And God help the rest of us.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

I could get behind the parser crowd if they were honest about why they want it. All this talk about "bettering the community" is nauseating. You want a parser to single out and kick "bad" dps. Just say that and move on. Its not as if a parser will make a bad dps good, so stop acting as if itll help them.

The issue here is that bad is relative, especially when youre using arbitrary numbers to make that determination.

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People already kick and single out bad DPS for being bad. Lest you forget, PC players already have parsers available to them through 3rd party means. Some people are jerks, and they will be use whatever tools in their possession to make people feel bad. No arguments there.

But please consider that console players have no access to parsers and therefore have no way of telling whether they are doing bad or good. Although it might not be a minority that you personally care about, you cannot deny that it would help DPS that play on console tremendously.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

I could get behind the parser crowd if they were honest about why they want it. All this talk about "bettering the community" is nauseating. You want a parser to single out and kick "bad" dps. Just say that and move on. Its not as if a parser will make a bad dps good, so stop acting as if itll help them.

The issue here is that bad is relative, especially when youre using arbitrary numbers to make that determination.

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I bet you'd kick a tank that didn't keep his enmity above the "arbitrary number" of "higher than the DPS/heals".

I bet you'd kick a healer that didn't keep the party's HP above the "arbitrary number" of zero.

The numbers aren't arbitrary when you're talking about things like enrage mechanics. The only people I see not wanting parsers are people that would rather no-worries button-mash on DPS than have some actual freakin responsibility to the other people in the party. That's just it though - we already take care of it if the content isn't getting cleared. Enough people already use parsers that horrendous DPS frequently find themselves kicked. The problem stems from the fact that right now they generally have no idea why they were kicked so they do nothing to improve. We can't confront them because we use third party software for parsing. Given a choice between risking a ban and some randie you'll never see again not knowing why he got kicked, it's obvious which one people will take. An ingame parser makes it so there is irrefutable evidence that awful DPS are doing something wrong.

It's only to be expected that any and all discussions turns into a furious (as in hotly discussed) debate. I support parsers, and I while I won't reiterate any counters that were made in regards to why the disdain of DPS meters exist (discrimination already happens, just that we can't say why, and quite a few of us already and continue to point out advantages to having parsers), I want to bring up two examples where a parser could help.

I normally don't give two shits about other's DPS in most DF and LFG runs, because as long as things die, that's all that matters to me. Now if you throw in a healer that couldn't heal themselves out of a paper bag while I tank (only starts healing me from 20%), oh boy it becomes a long and painful run. If I as a tank came #2, and not far from #1, I would be quite concerned, considering that the longer the fight went, the more chances I had to die, because the healer was slacking big time. In any similar case, I would call out the healer, but good DPS makes such a big difference in these runs. If one of the underperforming DPS was something I was familiar with (like any melee), with solid numbers and looking at what they were doing, it's an easy diagnosis there. I could then offer some advice if needed, but since parsers are in that limbo of "don't ask, don't tell," I can't say anything with perceived credibility.

Now in Alexander, the DPS are two monks, a machinist, and a black mage. On this run the machinist was top three with the monks, pulling more than 1k, the black mage on the other hand was hovering around 650 for example. You want to bet how many people would recognize how well the machinist was doing though? Probably zero. You want to bet who would be first to be kicked had the DPS shown signs of real struggling? The machinist, because even though this machinist was great, the "durr machinists suck" mentality is there, and people have no proof over who did what, but because they get such a bad rep, they are the the first to be suspected and kicked.

DPS meters aren't an "I win" button, they aren't replacements for practice, they don't turn people into assholes (because they already were assholes). They are tools. They can help pin point and diagnose issues, they can offer tangible and real time data on your performance, and you can use that with practice to tighten up your rotation. I don't like the "don't ask, don't tell" limbo parsers are in, and I like it even less playing a guess who game on where any given group can improve, but my main thing with a meter is that it helps me practice on improving myself. If I didn't have numbers, testing out different openers and rotations would be rather less solid.

I hope they create a dummy simulator for parsing that mimics real fights like Endgame, and when you beat the simulator your get credit/loots like if you really did that content.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Parsers should be allowed for personal use but not for group evaluation in my view. A training area sounds awesome and one where one can compare their performance against a leader board (without user names/id's).

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They need parsers otherwise how are you going to judge who is not doing enough DPS when you can't down a hard boss fast enough? Doesn't that already happen in savage mode?

I would be happy in duty finders there was a certain magical number of damage you needed to reach, and if you didn't... you got no credit for doing the duty and were unable to roll on loot lol. It could be really low too.

I would really like to just be able to parse my own damage during a boss.

first off parsers are good and bad. i like the personal parser idea. but dont like group because people tell you ur not doing enough dps in fights. imo dps is over rated just like rotations. just cause one person found optimal rotation doesnt meane very single person has to be able to do it thats crap. like blm i cannot no matter what i do stay above 1k on dummy. and i was i 191. also i do not like that people get kicked from certain dungeons just cause they dont remover totems from the circle who cares if u gotta killa few. i report everytime i get kicked for abuse.

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Originally Posted by lordbraska2

imo dps is over rated

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Not in

• Ex primals
• Savage

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Originally Posted by lordbraska2

first off parsers are good and bad. i like the personal parser idea. but dont like group because people tell you ur not doing enough dps in fights. imo dps is over rated just like rotations. just cause one person found optimal rotation doesnt meane very single person has to be able to do it thats crap. like blm i cannot no matter what i do stay above 1k on dummy. and i was i 191.

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DPS is NOT overrated. DPS makes fights die faster = lower chance at messing up, lower strain on healer's MP, chance to skip annoying mechanics, etc.
That said, NOBODY expects anyone to do PERFECT DPS in a dungeon! You are just expected to do above the tank's and the healer's, unless you are way undergeared and the tank is way overgeared. You are DPS, putting out numbers is YOUR job! Same as the tank's job is to hold enmity and the healer's job is to keep everyone alive!

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also i do not like that people get kicked from certain dungeons just cause they dont remover totems from the circle who cares if u gotta killa few. i report everytime i get kicked for abuse.

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Not removing the totems causes the fight to go several times longer.
Considering it's one of the most stupid and annoying fights ever, I can easily understand why someone would get kicked for not even attempting to follow this mechanic.

Oh and btw, if you have high DPS, you can lower the amount of times the boss uses this mechanic = you lower the amount of totems on the board. WINNING I say!

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Originally Posted by lordbraska2

imo dps is over rated just like rotations.

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Tbh, dps is only overrated in runs where it's obsolete, like dungeons. But put up a dps check, along with mechanics, and it becomes a completely different beast. People always keep whining about dps checks, but in reality, dancing around the mechanics is just as overrated. The real difficulty of the fights is neither the dps check or the mechanics alone, but maintaining great dps while executing complex mechanics. That's what separates a great player from an average one.

I think content that has forced dps checks should have a party-wide parser, or at least an option for it. Everywhere else a personal parser would be the best solution for personal evaluation.

And a side note; not using optimal rotations is just laziness, as anyone should be able to google them in 5mins.

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

Not in

• Ex primals
• Savage

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Originally Posted by ShaneDawn

I think content that has forced dps checks should have a party-wide parser, or at least an option for it. Everywhere else a personal parser would be the best solution for personal evaluation.

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A party wide parser only in ex trials and savage raids sounds good to me. But make sure it contains not only dps parse but also number of dispels, healing per second, overhealing %, damage taken per second, number of revives, number of deaths, healing taken from different sources, damage taken from different sources, buff uptime, total healing, total damage done and total damage taken. Like Recount or Skada in WoW does. So when that healer with 0 dispels, three times the damage taken from aoe and one death tells you to git gud, you can point out they have some things to improve as well.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

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I think there's zero chance we'll ever get something that complex for SE, I mean the only thing PvP has is damage dealt, damage received, deaths and kills, and tome captures. No kill assists, points for defending nodes, amount healed (I don't think that's in it anyway?), etc. Stuff that I think would be pretty vital to that frontlines.

When they're done with their addon API (if it's not half assed) someone will develop an addon like Skada. People talk like it's the worst thing in existence, but in truth rarely did anyone in WoW care if you were doing shit DPS in dungeons, even with DPS meters available. There are a few rotten people around, but that's no reason to keep something away from the majority.

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Originally Posted by lordbraska2

first off parsers are good and bad.

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Eh, parser's a tool. It's neither good or bad
Just like a knife, you wouldn't call a knife bad will you?

Play how you want. But don't be surprised when people vote kick you for not pulling your weight in contents like ex primals and savage.

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Originally Posted by lordbraska2

also i do not like that people get kicked from certain dungeons just cause they dont remover totems from the circle who cares if u gotta killa few. i report everytime i get kicked for abuse.

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Those 3 other people who kicked you seems to care :p

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Originally Posted by Colorful

People talk like it's the worst thing in existence, but in truth rarely did anyone in WoW care if you were doing shit DPS in dungeons, even with DPS meters available. There are a few rotten people around, but that's no reason to keep something away from the majority.

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I can't remember anyone in any game give two shits about the DPS of randoms as long as stuff gets done.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

I can't remember anyone in any game give two shits about the DPS of randoms as long as stuff gets done.

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Pretty much this. People like to brainstorm all the hypothetical problems that parser might bring, and are strangely willing to completely ignore that it doesn't need to be hypothetical. Parsers have a long history in mmo's (and things similar to parsers in other games). We don't need to guess about what will happen, we can look to history. And historically, they've been fine. A few minor problems here and there, but parsing horror stories are exceptionally uncommon.

Parsers can be a fantastic tool to shed some light on where the party as a whole can improve. I for one would welcome the addition of one to the game. That being said, there will always be people that are a-holes about it, but that can be said about anything, even the game itself.

On the "omg these elitists kicked me because they said I wasn't doing enough dps" note, you have to be under-performing pretty badly to get kicked because your numbers are low. I have yet to see it in things below Alex normal, but in the endgame stuff, if you are a detriment to the group you *should* be replaced because at that point you are wasting 7 other peoples' time since you obviously aren't prepared. (I say that from a job knowledge standpoint, not a mechanics one)

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Originally Posted by lordbraska2

first off parsers are good and bad. i like the personal parser idea. but dont like group because people tell you ur not doing enough dps in fights. imo dps is over rated just like rotations. just cause one person found optimal rotation doesnt meane very single person has to be able to do it thats crap. like blm i cannot no matter what i do stay above 1k on dummy. and i was i 191. also i do not like that people get kicked from certain dungeons just cause they dont remover totems from the circle who cares if u gotta killa few. i report everytime i get kicked for abuse.

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Would you kick a tank that couldn't keep hate and let the mobs run all over killing people? Would you kick a healer that didn't keep people's hp above zero? Why should DPS get to hakuna matata their way through dungeons mashing 4 keys and completely ignoring mechanics? I mean, as a tank or a healer I'll go remove totems from the circle for the DPS so they can keep doing their job, but if I'm doing more damage than they are then I should have every right to leave them to pick up their own. Honestly, in that case they should be picking up mine too. :P

Everyone should be reasonably expected to follow dungeon mechanics. Not doing so is basically thumbing your nose at the other three people stuck with you in the dungeon and telling them you don't give enough of a crap about their time to even do things properly. I'm not talking about messing up here - everyone messes up sometimes - but blatantly ignoring mechanics over and over again will just get you a (well-earned) vote kick. There's nothing abusive about it. You're not pulling your weight. You're making the dungeon take longer, and just generally implying that you're too lazy to do much more than queue, accept, and set yourself to "follow" in the first room. I queue so that I can get my daily tomes, not so I can carry other people for theirs while they play with their phone or watch tv.

I don't think my expectations are at all out of line here. I don't expect people to be perfect. I don't expect everyone I run into to put out Savage-quality damage. What I do expect is that people will at least put forth a modicum of effort to make clearing the dungeon a reasonable proposition. If they don't, then they get the Weakest Link treatment. I have yet to be talked to by a GM about "abusing" the vote kick system this way, but if I was I would have no problem telling the GM exactly why the player was removed from the dungeon. If you're going to be kicking back and expecting the other three people to carry your dead weight, don't bother queueing.

What is this strange perception that a parser is 'necessary'? Just play the game and learn your rotation. Saying a parser is necessary is like saying Guitar Hero is necessary to learn guitar. Simply LEARN the rotation. Use your EYES. Play the game. A lot. You will learn and build upon your rotation, and a parser wont help you do that, its something that is intuitive, and comes to you as you play your job more.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

I can't remember anyone in any game give two shits about the DPS of randoms as long as stuff gets done.

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I've been reading several lines of reasoning about this today, and there are definitely posters who do appear to care if DPS in a daily roulette inconveniences them because it takes 10 minutes longer to complete.

They want an excuse to kick folks out of that instance, and a DPS parser is precisely the tool they'll [ab]use, if given the chance.

Sure, let's have a damage Parser, but make it unusable in any Story Mode instance. That should satisfy about 90% of the non-vocal crowd. Not everyone in this game plays at Extreme Primal/Savage Mode Alex levels, nor are they trying to do so.

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Originally Posted by melisande

What is this strange perception that a parser is 'necessary'? Just play the game and learn your rotation. Saying a parser is necessary is like saying Guitar Hero is necessary to learn guitar. Simply LEARN the rotation. Use your EYES. Play the game. A lot. You will learn and build upon your rotation, and a parser wont help you do that, its something that is intuitive, and comes to you as you play your job more.

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It'd be more like saying being able to hear what you play is necessary to learn guitar. Which is still technically isn't. Deaf people can play music. But it's much easier if you can hear yourself.

Which is also all people are saying. No one has said a parser is necessary, you're making that up to argue against an easier point. We're all just saying that it's helpful information with no real downsides.