Easy Black Mage improvements!!!

Definitely stopping you right there before you claim any more shenanigans. Not feeding this one, no sir!

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

In patchwork scenarios, yes, they're close. It's no longer a near 20-25% deficit because of RNG and huge drops while in Ice stance.

That, or my melee are horrible.

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If you include the movement in any fight, assuming equal gear and skill, a Melee will always outdps a caster (outside of any buffs from other classes).

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Originally Posted by Galan

I don't even have to use fire 4 at all and can get same dps or better. I've tried all sorts of rotations and i just don't need to use fire 4 at all. It restricts your movement as well cause your trying to squeeze in as many cast as possible. Just not worth hassle to me if i can do just as good with fire 1/3.

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uhm...well...wow...so much bs in such a short post...

b2t...blm is in a fine spot right now...u just need to get used to juggle the buffs (i really hated that shit at the beginning too).

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Originally Posted by AkkoAihara

uhm...well...wow...so much bs in such a short post...

b2t...blm is in a fine spot right now...u just need to get used to juggle the buffs (i really hated that shit at the beginning too).

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It just needs to QoL and a couple of bugfixes, I still say they missed a trick not implementing Thunder 4. I've always said I liked the style they are going for, but they clearly didn't test the class properly.

Its also far more latency dependent now - if you are an EU player, until the new servers, good luck trying to do the new opener.

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Originally Posted by Kenji1134

?.?

/10char

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Its Meaty from Rift

i187 no fire 4 1000 dps on a dummy sustained easily while the best dps for blm i've seen on a dummy is this really convoluted rotation for 1200 dps in where you basically have to stand still. Gl with that in real fights.

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Originally Posted by Galan

i187 no fire 4 1000 dps on a dummy sustained easily while the best dps for blm i've seen on a dummy is this really convoluted rotation for 1200 dps in where you basically have to stand still. Gl with that in real fights.

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You don't need to wish people "GL with that," because it's been done. It's much less about luck than it is about skill, and it's really not that convoluted....

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Originally Posted by Galan

Gl with that in real fights.

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Its been done

I haven't hit 60 yet (almost XD) but I have been toying with enochian with the basic 2.0 rotation and honestly, I am having a lot of fun with it. I can't wait until I get fire 4 because I can already tell, it will be much smoother for me to keep enochian active with the new lvl 60 rotations.

It has been a huge pain trying to maintain DPS with the 2.0 rotation while trying to keep enochian active. x.x

I am a little sad about the flare thing but it doesn't seem like THAT big a difference, more pointless than anything to me.

once you guys reach a certain item level you aoes will start to return to normal, don't know how I was doing it earlier but I was actually poping off 8k flairs.

Item level is currently at 184.

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Originally Posted by Melondra

once you guys reach a certain item level you aoes will start to return to normal, don't know how I was doing it earlier but I was actually poping off 8k flairs.

Item level is currently at 184.

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You see a minimal difference when Flaring small groups. The disparity between 2.x Flare and 3.x Flare is felt when you have a large group of mobs because of how consecutive targets suffer less and less damage (maxing out at 50% reduction). It never really "returns to normal."

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Originally Posted by Galan

i187 no fire 4 1000 dps on a dummy sustained easily while the best dps for blm i've seen on a dummy is this really convoluted rotation for 1200 dps in where you basically have to stand still. Gl with that in real fights.

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"Convoluted."

You replace Fire with Fire4, use 1 fire to ensure your stacks remain, then go into ice stance as normal, where you use Blizzard 4 + Thunder 1 if you can fit it.

It's about as complicated as basic arithmetic.

The benefit of the 2.X rotation is that your longest cast is 2.5s making it easier to slide-cast, and the added flexibility caused by having your primary damaging spell refresh its own buff, and not having to worry about another buff dropping (Enochian).

The benefit of the 3.0 rotation is ~15-20% more dps.
I guess the entire argument is that this 15-20% in practice does not make up for the timing rigidity, buff monitoring, and movement penalties that comes with the 3.0 rotation.

And there seems to be a majority consensus on this.
The 3.0 rotation is definitely doable, but the punishment for messing it up seems worse than that for other classes, to the point that we can be completely locked out of our 3.0 rotation if we "mess up" at the wrong time.
Most of the request changes are to make the timers more forgiving, or make it so that we can still use the 3.0 rotation, albeit at a lower potency even if we lose AF/UI/Enochian.

I'm just sick of fighting my class when I want to be fighting the boss. I'm actually at the point of a moratorium on some content, because I don't see the point in punishing myself by trying to take a black mage into it. It's just too painful for me to consider it fun.

If Fire IV reset the timer on Umbral Fire .. that would help. Significantly, I think. We'd still be on a playstyle that I'm not as fussed on -- I love the proc based ARR BLM -- but the class probably wouldn't feel like it's out to get me anymore. Depends on what else was done at the same time.

And yes, I know some people just love it and don't see a problem with taking BLM into any and all content. Doesn't matter. There is always somebody who finds something fun. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be improved so it's fun for more people.

There were 2 Alex Savage groups looking for full time caster DPS to fill.
I applied to both at i193 - they said they weren't looking for a BLM.
We aren't even considered a caster DPS anymore.... :(

I'll admit that I haven't read the full thread, so apologies if this has been suggested. I feel like they should use the proc system which we are already familiar with and give bliz3 a chance to proc an instant bliz4 under enochian. It would be consistent with the toolkit, and allow to use Sharpcast to force a proc in situations where you're going to be tight on refreshing the budf because of movement. If Sharpcast was down and it didn't proc, then Swifcast would remain an option.

Alternatively, they could give us a trait that lowers the recast of Swiftcast.

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Originally Posted by Tarta

There were 2 Alex Savage groups looking for full time caster DPS to fill.
I applied to both at i193 - they said they weren't looking for a BLM.
We aren't even considered a caster DPS anymore.... :(

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Then both of those groups were terrible.

I finally hit 60 and am messing with enochian and fire 4 on the dummy. I think I have a decent handle on it now, but the fact that fire 4 doesn't reset astral fire does make things more difficult. I think everything would be perfect if not for that.

I think I have found a work around though that is more friendly to movement, but I will have to start running dungeons before I can say for certain.

The one major thing that I think I am going to struggle with at first, is the opening during fights like bismark and ravana ex. Those Aoes are gonna make it difficult at first until i know the fight better. XD

Ultimately I agree with those who want fire 4 to reset astral fire. I think that would make things MUCH more fluid for blms, but I can adapt to it as is now just the same.

If fire 4 would reset astral fire, fire 1 would probably not be in the rotation anymore. Does it make it bit boring? Do you wanna be low risk low reward rather than high risk high reward?

I would have preferred if BLM stayed the proc based DPS but the way it is now is also okayish. Need just some QoL changes...

Well if we need to keep some of the old spells in the 3.0 rotation, how about the following:

Every successful cast of F4 gives you a stacking 10s buff called "Sparks".
If you have 2+ stacks of Sparks, you gain the permanent effect of Firestarter.
Using the permanent Firestarter consumes 2 stacks of Sparks.
Sparks can stack up to 4 times, subsequent use of F4 refreshes the 10s duration.

The idea here (other than the inherent potency increase), would be to create a reliable forced proc system. Sounds odd doesnt it?
You cast 2x F4, and now you can use an instant, no cost F3. Since it is instant, and F3, a small movement will not cause you to outright lose AF3.
OR
You can cast 2x F4, F1, 2x F4, and have 2 Firestarters banked for an upcoming movement intensive phase.

So yes, this would end up being an ST dps gain, and it does not address the issue of losing Enochian if you cannot get B4 off, but it helps with maintaining the Fire portion of the rotation.

Hell, since we're making a new forced-proc-stack mechanic, then we could not use Firestarter to keep dps the same.
Have every stack of Sparks reduce the cast time of Fire, just F1, by 2s per stack. Casting F1 costs you 1 stack.
This way casting F1 at 1 stack takes 1.5s, but you still get the full 2.5s GCD, so it is not a dps gain.
Casting F1 at 2 stacks results in an instant F1, providing more mobility, and lets you reapply the AF3 buff in a much more reliable manner.

I just became a lv 60 BLM a few days ago and after doing some EX dungeons, I have to say that it really is not very fun at all. Granted, I'm still inexperienced with the new rotation, but I think I'll stick to my SMN for now when it comes to casting.

The challenge of the BLM back in 2.XX was all the aoes you had to dodge ... now you have to deal with that while maintaining enochian. I feel like it's such a dps loss if you have to dodge aoes while trying to cast F4 but then have to B3 and then B4 to extend enochian.

While other jobs have timers to deal with, BLM probably has the strictest/ least forgiving due to the cast times of each spells + the 10s limit of F3 and then enochian

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Originally Posted by Kenji1134

snipety snip

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Spark reminds me more of lightning than fire. Burning Embers, clearly.