Question about using Nocturnal Sect?

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Originally Posted by 416to305

Oh great that's SO much better, I was going to say this is pretty useless haha. And I definitely do DPS, even as WHM I do it a lot, just been levelling in the 4 person dungeons so sometimes DPSing is a bit harder just because in the higher level ones people just want exp, so I find tanks in Aurum Vale especially will pull huge pulls where I'm literally Benefic II over and over trying to keep them alive. In the 8 person ones DPSing is much easier.

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i only use Nocturnal set when there is another AST in party
i am still at my 52 for my AST
the problem i have with Nocturnal set with another WHM is
if i m singling healing, while WHM DPS, Diurnal set give me better healing control with HoT and easier to manage my mana
if the dungeon is so hard hitting, both of us need to be healing, i found the same issue as Diurnal set give better control

In Nocturnal Sect, Aspected Benefic has a potency of 250 and 130% of that as a shield on top. It's a total of 575 potency for 707 mp. Benefic II is 650 potency for 796 mp. Their mp efficiency is almost the same, Benefic II being slightly more efficient on top of being more powerful:

575/707 = 0.813
650/796 = 0.817

Basically the only reasons to use AB mid combat are preparing for massive spike damage (like Final Sting in dungeons or tank busters in raids) and instant cast healing during movement. Then again you have Lightspeed for casting instant heals and Stoneskin for a bigger shield...

Now let's have a look at AoE in Nocturnal Sect. Helios is 300 potency per target and Aspected Helios is 150 potency + 150 potency shield per target with a bigger mp cost. Uhhh... Clearly AH is completely useless, unless your group's lives are somehow dependent on that 150 potency shield.

On the other hand, Aspected Benefic is a whopping 1030 potency and Aspected Helios is 600 potency per target in Diurnal Sect. You have 5% attack speed instead of 5% spell power, which doesn't make a big difference in your average healing output but makes you spend mp ~5% faster in Diurnal. However, having powerful Aspected spells more than makes up for the faster mp usage and also allows more burst healing.

By being in Nocturnal Sect you give up 2 very powerful healing spells in exchange for having two spells less efficient than Benefic II and Helios... And this isn't even counting in the AST buffs that only benefit you in Diurnal. Whether you are playing with a WHM, a SCH or solo healing, Nocturnal is crap (except for out of combat shielding). It's only mildly useful when paired with another AST because the regen effects don't stack.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

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You forgot the 5% modifier diurnal sect does not have. You mentioned it halfway down your post, though. But it wasn't applied in the initial numbers.

Thanks everyone, I'm at 58 now. At first I did like Noc just because it was different, but I'm finding while leveling that Diurnal is much easier because I can pop it on the tank and then usually get a few hits of Gravity in when in The Vault and what not. With Noc it seems like I just apply it, switch to Cleric and the tank is at 60% HP type thing with nothing restoring HP over time, like if I do Synastry and AB on the tank first. In 8 man I find it more enjoyable if with another AST or a WHM just to heal in a different way. When I'm solo healing though I find Diurnal is preferred, also because if things get really bad, you can do Light Speed and get 5 Helios in really quickly which uses very little MP which is perfect when everyone has taken massive damage and it's an oh shit moment. In Noc you can only get 4 of them in, not that it usually requires more than a couple though but you do notice the extra speed as sometimes I'll pop a Helios or 2, things be good so I'm moving around, and then go to cast something else and Light Speed will still actually be up so it's a nice little surprise to have something instant cast when I thought it was probably over.

The only time I've ever had a party die during my time leveling AST was when I tried Nocturnal for the first boss in DV. I apologized, switched back to Diurnal and cleared the run without a hitch while contributing decent DPS. Nocturnal is amazing in PvP, but otherwise feels underwhelming unless you are paired with a WHM or another AST.

Noct is handy for PVP, basically makes you invulnerable with in reason.

Yeah. Sch can do it because we have our own form of regen on top of shields. Nocturnal is great in theory, but it just doesn't have the power nor mp efficiency to compete. Being able to switch sects mid combat would be amazing. Probably borderline overpowered. I could see a 15 second recast working alright though.

I do believe it's good to learn and understand both secs since adjustments may be made.

When playing AST I usually just stick in Nocturnal even with a SCH. The 5% healing is pretty nice and much care is taken not overwriting shields through judicial use of aspected healing. Natural I do switch at times but few will care about the sect. Once a fresh 50 WHM pre 3.0 I've grown conspicuous of Medica II from personal experiences and watching other WHM Medica II usage. Eventually I opted for more active healing, even if it meant Medica 3 times. Single target regen used with care, medica II use at levels nowhere near most players. AST with 354 Spell Speed I take either stance, however based on the lame regen story Diurnal Sect does not share much vision with my style. MP problems? Haven't had that for a long time unless you're talking about redundant death's and unusually high raid damage, if my mp is low then sure as hell the other healer will be.

I use it now if in 8 man with another healer just to change it up, but in 4 man stuff I find Diurnal is much easier. It seems like as soon as you hit AB on the tank and switch to DPS, it's gone before your first spell has even cast, with nothing to bring them back up. At least a regen will slowly restore HP over time, especially if they aren't taking as much damage after.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

Yeah. Sch can do it because we have our own form of regen on top of shields. Nocturnal is great in theory, but it just doesn't have the power nor mp efficiency to compete. Being able to switch sects mid combat would be amazing. Probably borderline overpowered. I could see a 15 second recast working alright though.

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The more I think about it the less overpowered it appears it would be, and it might actually be the easy/lazy solution to make Nocturnal more appealing without having to rework existing skills.

Let's face it, right now AST is an competent WHM subsitute but a poor SCH substitute. While stance dancing wouldn't be very useful when paired with a SCH or another AST, it would make AST + WHM a lot more comparable to SCH + WHM in terms of healing potential. Closing the gap with SCH would actually also indirectly benefit WHM.

I think even a 10s recast/lockout (similar to Defiance/Deliverance) would keep effects stacking in check if we're afraid of this but then again, the steep MP cost would be limiting enough.