Dark Knight Idea thread: Suggestions

What's this? A stupid kneejerk "please change everything" thread popping up on launch day?

I've had no problems managing MP. Why don't we give it time and see how the dust settles once people actually learn to play properly.

We need more life leaching abilities or, increase the potency of the ones we currently have. Right now, they're way too weak to even notice much with how hard mobs are hitting in the new areas/dungeons. Reminds me of the Dark Templar in Age of Conan.. the life leaching was pathetic and not even worth using. Well, similar to here, the life leaching abilities are not really that great. I do like a lot of changes in this thread, particularly the ones that increase the life leaching potency of some abilities. The only games that have done life leaching tanks all that well from my experiences in 15 yrs of mmo's has been EQ's Shadow Knight, and sad to say, WoWs Death Knight. Both of these have done life leaching well.

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Originally Posted by Zyph

What's this? A stupid kneejerk "please change everything" thread popping up on launch day?

I've had no problems managing MP. Why don't we give it time and see how the dust settles once people actually learn to play properly.

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You don't need to play a class for weeks to understand its playstyle. Warrior was my first tank and right now it frankly: a lot better. I have played Paladin as well, what have you played?

From your other threads it seems ya have only done DRK.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

You don't need to play a class for weeks to understand its playstyle. Warrior was my first tank and right now it frankly: a lot better. I have played Paladin as well, what have you played?

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I agree, the Warrior "feels" better currently. I feel like I'm trying to force myself to like the DRK and while I do, it feel's lackluster compared to Warrior. But, keep in mind its still new and I'm sure changes will happen overtime. I just got back into FFXIV and I'm not all that familiar with how fast/often SE makes class changes so I don't know how long itll take before we see anything happen with them.

I hope they fix some stuff.

O_< OP is silly and dumb. Didn't read comments just OP and I shook my head, its a tank class and what he said does not work with tanks at all.

A summarized version of my post in the other suggestion thread:

1.) Give ius a reliable Tank Buster. Warriors have IB, Paladins have Sheltron. Rework the DA effect on Dark Passenger to either act as a large absorb shield (~20% of Max Health or ~1200 potency like the two new tank heals). This could instead be applied to the Carve and Spit if we really want to keep that blind. Maybe shift the blind effect to Shadow Wall?

2.) We can all agree that reprisal needs to be able to get applied while off tanking, preferably with closer to 100% uptime. Reduce the potency if you need to.

3.) Add the slashing damage debuff to Delirium.

Those changes allow us to use Souleater and Dark Dance as ways to ease the pressure of consistent auto attacks, which would put us right in line with everyone else.

You could get rid of Blind entirely, and it wouldn't be missed. It doesn't work on bosses, which are currently DRK's biggest issue right now, and while it makes handling trash mobs slightly easier, DRK is already a class that mows through trash faster than anything else anyway.

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Originally Posted by Kiteless

You could get rid of Blind entirely, and it wouldn't be missed. It doesn't work on bosses, which are currently DRK's biggest issue right now, and while it makes handling trash mobs slightly easier, DRK is already a class that mows through trash faster than anything else anyway.

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Absolutely. I'm mostly just shotgunning at this point. Maybe drop the cooldown to 120s so it's in line with Vengeance. Don't get me wrong, Shadow Wall is effective, but it's really lacking in sex appeal compared to Sentinel and Vengeance.

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Originally Posted by Morcavious

A summarized version of my post in the other suggestion thread:

1.) Give ius a reliable Tank Buster. Warriors have IB, Paladins have Sheltron. Rework the DA effect on Dark Passenger to either act as a large absorb shield (~20% of Max Health or ~1200 potency like the two new tank heals). This could instead be applied to the Carve and Spit if we really want to keep that blind. Maybe shift the blind effect to Shadow Wall?

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Rampart and Sentinel are there for the hard hits as a PlD. Which Is replicated again by Shadowskin, Shadow wall and if magically relevant, Dark Mind. It really does seem like you're shotgunning...

To go over again.....
Rampart = Shadow skin
Sentinel = Shadow wall, Sentinel is 10% higher mitigation.
Dark Mind does not have an equivalent.
Bullwark (60% parry) Is rivaled by Dark dance (30% Parry, 20% evasion on a much much lower cooldown).

Theres nothing wrong with Delirium, just as there is nothing wrong with Rage of Halone doing 10% str. Theres a rather blatant reason why Drks have 80 more potency on their enmity Combo then Paladins.

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Originally Posted by Hundred

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And to once again explain. It's clear that Square has created two different types of mitigation cooldowns. Long sustained ones, and short bursty ones.

Rampart (Phys/Magic) = Shadowskin (Phys/Magic) > Raw Intuition (Phys)
Sentinel ~ Shadow Wall ~ Vengeance
IB (Phys/Magic) > Sheltron (Phys) > N/A
Dark Dance > Bulwark > Lots of random warrior things

See the missing piece there? An argument could be made that that's where Dark Mind is supposed to fit in, and hopefully that's the case. Hopefully we'll see lots of magic damage in Alexander.

So long as we are still suggesting changes to DRK in this thread (Which is what the original topic was about) I feel they shouldn't just take the simple way out like many people have suggested with tiny little tweaks or bonuses here and there on skills. Could refer to my first page comment for my ideas. I really feel like the class is missing out on a pure tanking stance and a pure DPS stance by having Darkside be usable with Grit. It really is something that they could have run with and made amazing by changing the added effects to skills by Dark Arts based on what stance you were in. But, with more time to think on the skills, I have a few tweaks to take away and add, so I'll go back through all the skills I feel need alteration. This is not to be confused with buffing, because I am all about taking away certain aspects while also giving certain ones.

Blood Weapon: Convert 10% of damage done into MP. Increase damage done by 10%. Lasts 15 seconds. Can only be used while under Darkside. 45 second cooldown.

Reasons: Since the MP drain was changed from a flat amount and only able to be triggered by physical attacks, to a % amount based on all damage done from all attacks as well as changed the attack speed to damage up, I feel the cooldown needed extending by 5 seconds. This is essentially your DPS stance equivalent to Blood Price.

Blood Price: Convert 10% of incoming damage into MP. Lasts 15 seconds. Can only be used while under Grit. 45 second cooldown.

Reasons: Changing the buff from being a flat amount of MP to an amount based on damage in means the skill has a higher tactical advantage. Further, this MP drain indicates the amount of damage being negated, a unique type of cooldown that the game has not yet seen except with combinations like Vengeance + Bloodbath which allows a Warrior to heal themselves for 25% of damage done by Bloodbath. This is essentially an MP equivalent, though less potent. It also adds some extra damage mitigation to the class, which seems to be a recurring complaint. The cooldown was increased by 5 seconds as a small compensation for the higher utility added to the skill.

Darkside: Increase damage by 15%. Can not be used with Grit.

Reasons: Remove the skill's capability to be used while under Grit. This makes it a pure off tank stance, much like Sword Oath and Deliverance. Also removed the MP drain, you will see why a little further down.

Grit: Reduce incoming damage by 15%. Can not be used with Darkside. Increased Enmity. Damage done lowered by 15%

Reasons: I reduced the damage mitigation of this skill for several reasons, which will be listed soon. I decreased the damage down effect of this buff because I have also changed some of the potency of skills below.

Reprisal: Deliver an attack with a potency of 150. Lowers target's damage output by 10% for 10/20 seconds. Can only be used after a successful Parry. 10 second cooldown.

Trait added: Enhanced Reprisal: Increases the duration of Reprisals effect to 20 seconds

Reasons: Drastically lowered potency, but also a drastically lowered cooldown. Keep its capability to be used between the GCD. Essentially, give players a better chance to actually refresh the debuff BEFORE it expires.

Dark Arts: Unlock unique characteristics of certain skills based on your current stance. Buff lasts 20 seconds. Increase MP cost by 100%.

Reasons: With the effects changed on Blood Weapon and Blood Price as well as the removal of the MP drain of Darkside, this skill could see abuse without draining more MP. I changed my mind from making it have a cooldown, because it would add more tactical difficulty if its capabilities were indeed limited by its high MP drain. Further, its arsenal has increased, since the effects it will have on skills will instead be based on your current stance. The duration of the buff was increased to compensate for the increased tactical difficulty on certain skills.

Power Slash: Non-Combo potency 100. Combo potency 300. Increased Enmity.
*Dark Arts effects*
-Grit: Increased Enmity
-Darkside: Increase Target's magic vulnerability by 5% for 15 seconds. Stacks with Foe's Requiem.

Reasons: Added Darkside effect gives the DRK some much needed off tank utilities. This will be a theme for many of the skills effected by Dark Arts.

Dark Dance: Increases Parry rate by 30%. 90 second cooldown.
*Dark Arts effects*
Grit: Increases Parry Rate by 50% for 15 seconds.
Darkside: Target can not perform a critical hit for 15 seconds

Trait "Enhanced Dark Dance" removed and replaced with "Enhanced Reprisal" at the same level.

Reasons: Removed the trait for this skill to give to Reprisal. Removed the Evasion effect because it's true... that just seemed counter intuitive to the skill. If you evade, you aren't going to parry at all anyways, so what's the point? Kept the parry instead of the evade too, because so much of the class is based on Parry. I also gave this skill some serious benefit when combined with things like tank crunches. Boosted the cooldown by 50% because of the increased power this buff could carry.

Soul Eater: Non Combo potency 100. Combo Potency 310. Absorbs 50% of damage done as healing.
*Dark Arts effects*
Grit: Absorbs 100% of potency done as healing
Darkside: Heals near by party members, also for 50% of the damage done. 5 yalm radius

Reasons: Removed the damage increase from Dark Arts, and instead increased the combo potency of the skill by 50. Added off tanking benefits to it via Dark Arts. Essentially melee range healing. The effect from Darkside on this skill has yet to be seen in this game too.

Dark Passenger: Frontal Line, 10 yalms. Magical Damage potency 250. MP consumption increased by 50%. Cooldown 30 seconds.
*Dark Arts effects*
Grit: Blind enemies hit for 15 seconds
Darkside: Potency increased to 400.

Reasons: Increased MP consumption for a stronger attack. Basic utilities for each stance, blind for tanking, heavy AOE for Off Tanking on trash.

Dark Mind: Increase magic vulnerability reduction by 10% for 10 seconds. 60 second cooldown.
*Dark Arts effects*
Grit: Increase magic vulnerability reduction to 30%.
Darkside: Lower target's magic damage output by 10% as well.

Reasons: Lowering the skill's power outside of Dark Arts will increase the need to use it with the buff, and increase the tactical difficulty of the skill. Further, this skill will help bridge a little bit of the gap on things like Virus as an off tank, since it can be applied even with Antibodies buff on the target.

Living Dead: Can only be activated while under Dark Arts. Cooldown 450 seconds.
Dark Arts effects:
Grit: The Living Dead buff will automatically heal you for 100% of HP should your HP drop to 1. Most attacks cannot reduce your HP to less than 1 for 10 seconds. The buff is removed automatically if triggered.
Darkside: The Living Dead buff can be applied to a dead target within 15 yalms. The target will be instantly raised with 50% of their HP and applied with the "Zombie" debuff for 10 seconds. Should the target be healed to full HP, the buff will fall off and they will remain. Should the debuff expire, or should their HP fall to 0, they will be downed again. Raising in this fashion does not result in raise sickness.

Reasons: Increased the cooldown due to better effects. Increased tactical difficulty by requiring Dark Arts to activate the skill. There has yet to be a skill that self heals based on situations where the caster dies or falls to a certain amount of HP in the game. Further, there has been a huge outcry for tanks to be able to raise. A raise in this fashion though would not be something as simple as "Here, get up, no worries". A cooldown of 7.5 minutes would almost assure that the skill can not be used more than once in some fights. Further, balancing out the need to be able to absorb a tank crunch with the need for a raise would also limit this skill.

Abyssal Drain: 100 Potency Damage to target and enemies near it.
*Dark Arts effects*
Grit: Absorb 100% of the damage done as healing.
Dark Arts: Increase Potency to 200.

Lowered Potency to change the effectiveness based on stance. Tanking, recover some HP. Off tanking, do better AOE damage. But it still can not be abused due to its MP consumption.

Carve and Spit: three fold attack with a potency of 100 per attack. 60 second cooldown.
*Dark Arts effects*
Grit: Restores MP equal to Damage done.
Darkside: Increase potency of each hit to 300.

Reasons: I haven't personally gotten to test this skill out yet, and I am unsure if the potency listed on the tooltip means 450 potency per hit, or a total potency of 450 between the three hits. IF it is the former, it needs decreasing. If it is the latter, it needs increasing. This skill is another chance to recover MP for more Dark Arts skills to be used while under Grit, since the big benefits to certain cooldowns have been placed under the Grit effects of Dark Arts.

Honestly, this could have been a very interesting and unique feature of this class that would have set it drastically apart from the other tanks. Paladin has the turtle effect with both block and parry and strong defensive cooldowns. Warriors have the high HP with self healing, plus moderate defensive capabilities and good main and off tank utilities. But neither one of them has a skill that triggers added effects of other skills, effects of which change depending on their current stance too.

Edit: Long post, I know. Probably going to get a lot of TL;DR.

Carve and Spit is 450 total potency. The animation just happens to be 3 hits in a row. Right now, it's ~12.5% better than a boosted Souleater, but it is just straight damage oGCD. It's actually a ridiculously powerful ability for what it is right now, though its mana return is depressing to say the least (equivalent to a syphon).

One thing I would like to see, however:

Blood Price: Combined with Blood Weapon. When Grit is off, acts as blood weapon does now. When grit is on, passively regens mana based on the number of targets near you. If they aren't combined, just turn Blood Price into this anyways.

Reasons: Blood Price returns mana based on how often you as the tank are hit. However, this is wildly contingent on how often you take damage, to the point where the amount of mana return could be half a dark arts all the way to "I have unlimited mana for the next 15 seconds." Furthermore, this ability also actively punishes your group for playing tactically on an AoE pull. For instance, if a white mage decides it wants to AoE while Blood Price is up, the buff is rendered effectively useless.

By changing it into a scaling mana regen based on the number of targets nearby, it solves both problems. The amount returned for one target, E.G. when main tanking, will be consistent and not change depending on the boss. Meanwhile, your group won't make you as the tank less effective because they're throwing stuns out wildly. The scaling nature lives up to the spirit of the initial ability.

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Originally Posted by Taranok

One thing I would like to see, however:

Blood Price: Combined with Blood Weapon. When Grit is off, acts as blood weapon does now. When grit is on, passively regens mana based on the number of targets near you. If they aren't combined, just turn Blood Price into this anyways.

Reasons: Blood Price returns mana based on how often you as the tank are hit. However, this is wildly contingent on how often you take damage, to the point where the amount of mana return could be half a dark arts all the way to "I have unlimited mana for the next 15 seconds." Furthermore, this ability also actively punishes your group for playing tactically on an AoE pull. For instance, if a white mage decides it wants to AoE while Blood Price is up, the buff is rendered effectively useless.

By changing it into a scaling mana regen based on the number of targets nearby, it solves both problems. The amount returned for one target, E.G. when main tanking, will be consistent and not change depending on the boss. Meanwhile, your group won't make you as the tank less effective because they're throwing stuns out wildly. The scaling nature lives up to the spirit of the initial ability.

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Better yet, the amount of MP gained for each additional enemy within range could negatively scale from a higher base value for the first enemy (first enemy gives 100%, second enemy gives 50%, then 40%, etc.), which would overall keep the skill more consistent for everything.

I like this idea.

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Originally Posted by Morcavious

And to once again explain. It's clear that Square has created two different types of mitigation cooldowns. Long sustained ones, and short bursty ones.

Rampart (Phys/Magic) = Shadowskin (Phys/Magic) > Raw Intuition (Phys)
Sentinel ~ Shadow Wall ~ Vengeance
IB (Phys/Magic) > Sheltron (Phys) > N/A
Dark Dance > Bulwark > Lots of random warrior things

See the missing piece there? An argument could be made that that's where Dark Mind is supposed to fit in, and hopefully that's the case. Hopefully we'll see lots of magic damage in Alexander.

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What missing piece.
Dark Mind is 10s and fine for back-to-back magical attacks.
There is no discrepancy here where Drks don't have defensive CD's. What they don't have is the side piece util like Equilibrium, Clemency, Cover, Divine Veil that is also relevant in a boss fight. Instead they have a heap of mana gain crap, damage abilities and arbitrary sustain for Trash fights.

Well, we do have one... Sole Survivor. It just has twice the cooldown and an incredibly dumb requirement that, once again, makes it only really good for trash.

It's like they only tested DRK on trash mobs.

Dark Dance: Forget Parry Rate bonus. Change it to Damage Absorption shield equal to X% of HP or MP. Dark Arts effect would be to add "Dread Spikes" reflecting all or a portion of the damage.

Reprisal: Put on GCD. Triggered by Parry as it is now.

Reprisal doesn't need a GCD, it needs a 16 second cool-down, honestly.
Dark Dance needs DR instead of Parry,

I really don't see the advantage of putting the -10% damage on the GCD unless the intent is to make it like Storm's Path. That's not the right answer for this ability, I feel. Instead I believe it should act as it does now, possibly with a longer cooldown, but make it so that it can always be fired when off cooldown, and that its cooldown can be reset by parrying. However, it can only be fired while Dark Arts is activated, otherwise it's just a straight damage add or is otherwise useless. Maybe a minor mana drain? Some other side benefit, but I digress.

Such a change would let the tank fire it as needed, rewards DRKs for main tanking by being able to fire it more regularly, but still letting off tanks fire it on occasion. The advantage over WARs is that it doesn't need to be part of a combo or even a GCD, and isn't competing with applying Storm's Eye. The disadvantage is that it would be resource intensive to maintain it 100% of the time to the point of being impractical, while also hurting the off tank's overall throughput to use it, just not because of denying storm's eye. Would make it a nice alternative to the WAR's Storm's Path without basically being a straight better version of it.

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Originally Posted by Taranok

I really don't see the advantage of putting the -10% damage on the GCD unless the intent is to make it like Storm's Path.

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I'm more of this mindset -- actually to a greater extreme that a lot of people will disagree with.

But think: If Reprisal was exactly as it was, except with a Slow or Pacification debuff, no one would be complaining about it. We'd just be saying, "Oh cool, an oGCD Counter Attack WS, always wanted that, free 210 potency!"

I do want better EHP boost & more utility to Dark Knight's arsenal,

but I don't think we need to steal from Warrior's trademark to do so -- just considering how awesome of a CD it is already, 30 second recast or no.

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Originally Posted by Ceodore

Edit: Long post, I know. Probably going to get a lot of TL;DR.

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I read it all, and I don't think you thought everything out. Majority of your suggested Darkside DA effect skills are just crazy strong, not only would DRKs pretty much be forced to OT at all times, they'd likely also be the de facto OT in general. Battle raise, high damage, constant mini-foes, and very strong party or MT supporting damage reduction.

My ideas are probably broken because i didnt really think them out, fair warning

Reprisal - scrap the parry proc and make it part of a combo

Blood Weapon - usable under Grit and increases damage by %10

Carve and spit - CD reduced to 30s

Dark Mind - applies to all damage, not just magic

Abyssal Drain - MP cost reduced

Living Dead - Some kind of tell to note that you've entered Walking Dead mode so healers know you need to be patched up in 10 seconds, macros are ok but alot of people find them annoying outside of a premade group

Salted Earth - Could someone explain to me what Salted Earth does? because when i plop it down im seeing absolutely nothing so im assuming im using it wrong, i believed it was supposed to be an AOE DoT, and if it is, make it like circle of scorn and surround the person using it or the target you're locked onto

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Originally Posted by AstreaTrinity

Salted Earth - Could someone explain to me what Salted Earth does? because when i plop it down im seeing absolutely nothing so im assuming im using it wrong, i believed it was supposed to be an AOE DoT, and if it is, make it like circle of scorn and surround the person using it or the target you're locked onto

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Don't think you are giving the capabilities of ground-target AoE it's fair consideration.

We already have a ranged AoE in Abyssal Drain -- on GCD with no recast limitation. Unleashed is the radius around the player GCD. Dark Passenger is oGCD and rectangle telegraph, and Salted Earth is ground placement. So many different ways to deliver AoE with DRK. Most jobs have to settle with just one of the above AoE types - DRK gets all 4.

With Salted Earth, Abyssal Drain, and Dark Passenger/Unleashed DRK can pick up 3 different groups of mobs in less than 2 GCDs.

Stand on the spot where group 1 spawns, Salted Earth pre-drop on the area where the 2nd group spawns, Abyssal Drain the 3rd as it spawns, then drop Dark Passenger on group 1. 1 GCD 3 pulls.

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Originally Posted by AstreaTrinity

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Lowering the cooldown on reprisal to 15 seconds would make it a lot better and you would have 5 seconds to reapply the debuff

While it would be nice to have blood weapon in grit I think we are in a good spot with damage output compared to other tanks.

I would prefer if Carve And Split actually did what it said on the tooltip, a threefold attack, so that would be 300 potency and 2688 mp, or 1350 potency if you dark arts it. Gives us a choice, mp gain or damage.
Dark Arts + Dark Dance could give 20% physical damage reduction instead. Would give us three cds for physical and three for magical
What I want to see with living dead is not actually a game related visual thing, more of a ui thing. Have the players name or health in the party list be set on fire or change to flashing red
This would give the party as a whole visual notification that the dark knight needs healing and fits nicely together with the animation it has

Changes I made:

Dark Mind:
Gain the ability to block temporarily.
Modifies Block Rate by 4*level: 240 at level 60.
Modifies Block Strength by 10*level: 600 at level 60.
Dark Arts +:Additionally gain a dark shield which prevents damage.
Duration: 15 seconds.
Instant Cast, 60 second cool-down.

Souleater
Delivers an attack with a potency of 100.
Combo Action: Syphon Strike, Combo Potency: 260
Dark Arts Potency: 240
Dark Arts Combo Potency: 400
Grit Effect: Absorbs 100%(200%) of damage dealt as HP.
Dark Arts fades upon execution.

Power Slash
Delivers an attack with a potency of 100.
Additional Effect: Increased enmity
Combo Action: Spinning Slash
Combo Potency: 300
Dark Arts Combo Potency: 400
Dark Arts Additional Effect: Forces target to target you for 3 seconds.

Carve and Spit
Reduced cool-down to 16 seconds from 60.
Delivers an attack with a potency of 75. Also restores MP if used while not under the effect of Dark Arts.
Dark Arts Potency: 250
Dark Arts fades upon execution.

Sole Survivor:
Guards the target while it remains within 20y. While active, the target takes 5% less damage and generates less enmity and you gain 10% base parry when you are near the guarded target. Requires Grit. Cannot be used on players using Grit Stance, Shield Oath, or Defiance.
Cool-down: 120 seconds.
Duration: Forever.
Cast Time: Instant.

If the target dies you gain a buff called "Vengeance" which increases damage done substantially whilst also increasing enmity gain. All cool-downs are reset.
Duration: 10 seconds.

I also wrote out my ideas to sacrifice your life. Many people hated that.