New Bard feedback

I just hit 60 this morning and I have to say that even w/o sidewinder at the time I found WM more of a nuisance to put on because unlike mnk's fists of earth wind and fire or a healer's cleric stance, WM goes on like a song, so you have to stop dpsing to sing it just like all our other songs. Plus I chose bard because of the following reasons: I played TERA while ffxiv was down during the alpha/beta phases til arr launch to check it out and keep busy, and got hooked on the mobility of all their dps classes there, even sorcerer, dps on the move? np. I like being ranged, but didn't care for ffxiv casters because they felt too slow after playing TERA. I wanted to be a ranged dps because I prefer it over melee (no offence melees, to each their own), and at the time til HW bard was the only choice out of all the jobs to suit me. I will be levelling machinist also but I hear they also get the mobility nerf when they get a turret/barrel skill later on.

If I wanted to be a caster I'd have mained blm or smn, I chose bard for my love of mobility and that I wouldn't have to get an eye twitch seeing a cast bar after playing TERA for several months. We bards chose bard for our various reasons, but I am seeing alot of BRDs saying they loved the mobility option. I don't know where these nut bards are that said they'd trade their mobility for more dps numbers, but I wasn't one of them. Unless they fix something to make it more viable and fix the bugs, I can see alot of endgame bards that don't like this WM getting dragged kicking and screaming into using it because they're made to.
RIP BARD as we loved it.

Meanwhile nearly every single Summoner skill has no cast time, and now we have instant nukes too!

This is just sweet revenge for bards and black mages laughing at us throughout ARR.

Just please stop telling people they don't have to use the minuet. It is wrong.
When we will get a bit info from parses and rotations etc., minuet will be probably "must use" and GL trying getting into EM farm party or Alexander Savage without using minuet.

I like minuet and I will get used to being a BLM. But don't tell me it added more possibilities to BRD, there are only 2. Use Minuet or get kicked from party.

And because minuet has a cast time, you won't be turning it on and off during fight. The cast time would hurt your average DPS badly. Any other DPS with casting times does in raids well and we will do well to. But forget about your movement, it is dead. :eek:

Machinist is even worse off than Bard. Yes really.

People don't get that the biggest issue is not the movement but that it barely gives any damage boost at all when you have real fights like primals and most Bards who killed the new primals don't even use it.

WM is good for AOE pulls in dungeons. It's not so great for single target boss fights or for solo play where a bard needs to dance.

Doesn't help that Bloodletter + Rain of Death was glitched and wouldn't proc properly if you used them together. Did that get patched in the maintenance last night?

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Originally Posted by Catwho

WM is good for AOE pulls in dungeons. It's not so great for single target boss fights or for solo play where a bard needs to dance.

Doesn't help that Bloodletter + Rain of Death was glitched and wouldn't proc properly if you used them together. Did that get patched in the maintenance last night?

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No it din't get patched i don't even see it in accepted buggs and it's really game breaking because you can't attack for 15 secs...

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Originally Posted by Takfloyd

Meanwhile nearly every single Summoner skill has no cast time, and now we have instant nukes too!

This is just sweet revenge for bards and black mages laughing at us throughout ARR.

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Solipsism is one helluva mindset.

I like it how people who's main isn't a bard telling us that the class is okay, lol. It's been discussed in this thread (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...y-broke-my-job) and on reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...izards_are_mad).
I'm not sure how you guys can consider dps loss as okay. In summary, for those who says WM is a welcome change it means DPS is least of your concern.

The current change is not only a dps loss but is a complete overhaul to the reason why some of us players chose bard. It's due to the mobility and the lack of cast time.
There will be the standard "no one is forcing you to play bard" and "play melee instead, there's no cast time", that's just being condescending and not acknowledging the issue.
Furthermore, not that I want to touch any nerves but I don't think this issue can be understood to those who doesn't main a bard or doesn't plays a bard for their mobility.

I posted this in a topic on the DPS forum as well, but since we're having the discussion in general:

A lot of players have been worried about this since it was first announced, but waited to see how it was implemented before crying foul. The biggest problem isn't even the movement (though that is a very jarring change), but that bard was originally built with instant casts in mind, and the bard playstyle reflects that. Black Mage has one off gcd buff that they have to manage between casts and an occasional proc, bard has 6 buffs, along with several other off gcd attacks that are meant to be weaved in between on gcd abilties one of which can also proc to reset it's cd. Adding cast bars makes that process extremely...clunky for lack of a better word. Things don't flow well, it almost feels like they tried to take two different gameplay styles and mash them into one =p.

If SE really wanted to encourage bards to stand still they should have just had WM add a stacking buff to all damage the longer you stood in place. Good bards would still need to stand around to be higher on the charts, but it wouldn't break the synergy between the moves in the class itself.

That is.. brilliant.

Reading through this... it sounds like people are just sitting in WM. Please don't. Pop in when needed, then get out. You're killing your DPS.

There are really only 3 times you should be using WM:

- Opener
I haven't done any number crunching, as I just hit 60 yesterday, but it doesn't seem like the BRD opener hasn't changed much. Now, KrietoR will probably prove me wrong soon enough, but it just seems a few more skills got tacked onto the end, and the point when you use Barrage got delayed a bit.
Quelling > HE > RS > BL > SS > B4B > IR > WB > VM > Flaming(+Blunt if you don't need silence) > WM > Barrage > Emp Arrow > Sidewinder > Iron Jaw > Leave WM > Go back to regular scheduled BRD programming.

- When HE+B4B+Barrage line up. Which they always should. And your dots should be up. As they always should.
WM > HE > B4B > Barrage > Emp Arrow > Sidewinder > Iron Jaw > Leave WM

- AOE pulls
Because who cares about AA when you can get a 20% increase across all the mobs in the pack.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

minuet will be probably "must use" and GL trying getting into EM farm party or Alexander Savage without using minuet...Use Minuet or get kicked from party.

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I loled...

Your bard is level 55, and you're claiming that even now your DPS is higher than with it turned off? You don't even have all the skills that go with it. On top of that, if you are playing the toggle game + 1.5s cast time, that's 4.5s before you can fire off your toggled skill. Yes, you are unable to weave in your OGCD skills during that time (please try to do this during TitanEX and let me know how it goes).

Personally, I don't see anyone getting kicked for not using it. You tell us not to promote toggling it off, yet you are sitting here promoting the idea of kicking people for not using a song that STILL isn't parsing high?

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Originally Posted by Edellis

I forgot to check if it procs on Misery's End though.

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Doesnt work on Misery's End. At least not on my current level. Tried it a ton of times to check. Plus since I have it macro'd as Barrage>Misery's End>Heavy Shot and its popped sometimes right before using Misey's End and it doesnt do the 3 hits (I wish!). At least it doesnt remove the proc so it'll hit with whatever comes next. Heavy Shot is really the only ability worth using Barrage with (again, at my level).

As for WM... havent tried it but I like the sound of it. Then again im one of the few BRD's who doesnt care about the support abilities (though I still use them when needed) or mobility as much. Makes sense that an Archer would have to line up a shot correctly for pin-point accuracy/max damage. My favorite Archer classes so far have been in LoTR which had a great Hunter with a lot of stationary cast times IIRC and Rift where they had an ability where standing in a very small AoE gave you a damage buff.

They should make MCH the mobile job instead. Guns arent as accurate nor do they really need to be.

I haven't even been using it yet. I'm still usually top dps, or close to, in dungeons. I like to move too much to use that song though. Maybe I'll try it more after getting to cap.

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Originally Posted by Kayote

They should make MCH the mobile job instead. Guns arent as accurate nor do they really need to be.

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Yeah, let's change the play style of an existing class, and give that gameplay to a new one.

You're kidding right? Because that's idiotic.

Bards complaining about having a DPS stance when they originally were tearful about being the supportive type.
So they hear your plea and gave you something to work with, in exchange of mobility loss.
You asked for it. You can't have be a better DPS, have mobility AND support.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Originally Posted by Mhikail

Bards complaining about having a DPS stance when they originally were tearful about being more supportive.
Now precious mobility is gone.
You asked for it.
\_(ツ)_/¯

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You can search my post history. I never asked for it...

a) I liked Bard the way it was before so I didn't complain about "low DPS," infact, it wasn't low at all. LOWER than some certain jobs, maybe, but not low. The only reason I played Bard was because of the mobility. It's fun.

b) There are so, so many other ways to up the DPS if you have to. Making songs work differently would be a great start.

c) The "Nobody will force you to use the new skill"-argument. Yes, yes you will force us.

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Originally Posted by Cirgellon

You can search my post history. I never asked for it...

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Many Bards don't even sing dude lol.
Plenty on here complained about "I don't even sing, I wanna DPS!!!1"
Numerous topics about them not singing and that was the main response.
But they knew what Bard entailed when you picked it.
So when they finally go "Okay we'll toss a stance" you get one, but you aren't mobile.
You had to pick one lol. Bards are a hyrbid, they can't have it all or it'll be unbalanced.
Blame the Bard Brethern's lol.

This entire problem would of been tossed out if they gave a
Ranger...and a Bard.
A true DPS and a Support/Healer.

Actually considering they just released another ranged shooty things job couldn't they have just kept the existing Bard as a mobile version of it and make Machinist a semi-stuck to the ground job? Now they are both nearly the same.

Then we could choose. :3

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Originally Posted by Lyaha

Yeah, let's change the play style of an existing class, and give that gameplay to a new one.

You're kidding right? Because that's idiotic.

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Nope, not kidding. I like it, hope it stays and is expanded upon in the future. Like I said before, it fits Archery better and removes our mobility in favor of higher numbers. You dont like it, fine... too bad for you. You can suck it up or try another class. This isnt the first Hunter/Archer/Bard/Ranger class to get changes to its mobility, it wont be the last. The only thing "idiotic" is expecting things never to change in an MMO because you dont like it.

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Originally Posted by Mhikail

Bards complaining about having a DPS stance when they originally were tearful about being the supportive type.
So they hear your plea and gave you something to work with, in exchange of mobility loss.
You asked for it. You can't have be a better DPS, have mobility AND support.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Surprise surprise the so called dps stance doesn't give us more dps. Go back to your cave ty.

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Originally Posted by Mhikail

Many Bards don't even sing dude lol.
Plenty on here complained about "I don't even sing, I wanna DPS!!!1"

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i sing *o* if i see blackmage in group instant foes... healers 1/2 mp left i pop a song with battle voice to give them a quick boost :P

i love the new bard song n skills.. sayin that theres some boss fights its really not recommended to use minuets in like final vault boss etc XD

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Originally Posted by Rose-Wild

Surprise surprise the so called dps stance doesn't give us more dps. Go back to your cave ty.

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Wanderers Minuet: Increases damage dealt by 20%. You cannot auto-attack in this stance. Cast times are added to all archer and bard weapon-skills. Can be used with other songs. Effect ends upon reuse.

Explain.

Those 20% in tooltip doesnt mean anything. Simple timing of mob kill occurance is all the evidence needed. Even hugely buffed EA with those ~1.3k x 3 numbers once in 2 minutes is only there to fool your brain. All the smaller numbers from autoatack and and weaving BL and SH right as they proc add up, the result is faster mob kill, its very simple i can switch targets very fast when im mobile and coordinate attacks. There is countless times when you cast your skill but the mob dies before it goes off and recasting it doubles the skills go off time, so in essence those 20% result in huge loss, while you could in same time 3 to 4 times sammed the "20% lesser" ability. 20% doesnt compensate for all the times your cast doesnt go off.
One more thing with those cast time ME is simply beyond usless. 20% of mobs hp dissapear too quickly for you to weave it in time, all you can see is how it procs and then die a little inside because you were in the middle of the cast. BLM have skill for them to deffend them a little while casting and being in some not so damaging aoe, but us bards and machinists too i imagine is nightmare for healers. Bosses have so many very quick small aoe's that to be 100% efficient at avoiding them your dps will be so low that i guess in near future you'll be outright kicked for being the hindrance by being in at all outside some some boss openers or phase shifts. And phase shifts is a time to sing for party refreshments and not waist valuable 3 second to yap some WM whose benifits are only philosophical.

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Originally Posted by Mhikail

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Originally Posted by Rose-Wild

Surprise surprise the so called dps stance doesn't give us more dps. Go back to your cave ty.

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Wanderers Minuet: Increases damage dealt by 20%. You cannot auto-attack in this stance. Cast times are added to all archer and bard weapon-skills. Can be used with other songs. Effect ends upon reuse.

Explain.

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Approximately 23% of BRD DPS is auto-attacks. Net 3% loss, on top of a lot other issues related to skill use while under WM.

Explained.

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Originally Posted by Kayote

post

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You want to play that kind of class, why don't you go play Machinist, an entirely new class perfect for a new play style design, meanwhile, how about leaving Bard the fuck alone for people who didn't want to play a bloody BRD/BLM mix up.

I don't mind rotation changes, I don't mind extra abilities that we need to take into consideration, what I don't accept is changing the way we cast our abilities, especially with a skill that's so poorly designed.

Just because stupid decisions were made in other games doesn't mean it should happen here, so please, go play Machinist and let the rest of us enjoy the class we've been playing for the past two years.

Nvm, not trying to start a war here since people are getting pissed and/or aggressive lmao.
*Leaves thread before I get shot with millions of flaming arrows of doom.*

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Originally Posted by Mhikail

Nvm, not trying to start a war here since people are getting pissed and/or aggressive lmao.
*Leaves thread before I get shot with millions of flaming arrows of doom.*

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Don't worry.. the cast bar will give ya plenty of time to make a run ;)

It's useful for large group AOEs where you have a good tank and you don't have to dodge anything. Then 20% damage boost makes up for the loss of auto attacks. Usual rule applies - 3 or more mobs is worth the AOE damage. 1-2 is not, so take off WM.

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Originally Posted by Aistaraina

Approximately 23% of BRD DPS is auto-attacks. Net 3% loss, on top of a lot other issues related to skill use while under WM.

Explained.

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This this and this, WM currently useful for barrage+Empyrial Arrow, buffs+Sidewinder and AoE, the rest keep it off

I hope SE fix it asap

So when are they going to adress the game breaking bug on bard that doesn't do any action till bloodletter is ready again???
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3060121

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Originally Posted by Lyaha

You want to play that kind of class, why don't you go play Machinist, an entirely new class perfect for a new play style design, meanwhile, how about leaving Bard the fuck alone for people who didn't want to play a bloody BRD/BLM mix up.

I don't mind rotation changes, I don't mind extra abilities that we need to take into consideration, what I don't accept is changing the way we cast our abilities, especially with a skill that's so poorly designed.

Just because stupid decisions were made in other games doesn't mean it should happen here, so please, go play Machinist and let the rest of us enjoy the class we've been playing for the past two years.

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Here Here!

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Originally Posted by Lyaha

You want to play that kind of class, why don't you go play Machinist, an entirely new class perfect for a new play style design, meanwhile, how about leaving Bard the fuck alone for people who didn't want to play a bloody BRD/BLM mix up.

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Because I dont like guns, or robot pets, or magic pew pew. This may come as a huge shock but much like you couldnt give a shit about what I like, I couldnt care less about what you like. You call them stupid decisions, I say theyre a step in the right direction. Far as im concerned they fixed one of the few things I didnt like about BRD over the last 2 years. Sorry (not sorry) but id rather do more significant damage (as is my role) than to have some useless (in PvE) defensive perk, running around like a headless chicken which has hardly benefited anyone outside PvP. IF this ability is truly poorly designed then I hope they fix rather than remove it. So QQ, piss, moan and curse all you like im still for it and am letting SE know. Its their decision in the end.

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Originally Posted by Taban

If SE really wanted to encourage bards to stand still they should have just had WM add a stacking buff to all damage the longer you stood in place. Good bards would still need to stand around to be higher on the charts, but it wouldn't break the synergy between the moves in the class itself.

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Yup, this would be a much better solution as it keeps the BRD playstyle intact whilst still encouraging players to stay still to do more damage. Several other MMOs use a similar system for physical ranged DPS and it works very well.

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Originally Posted by Kayote

Because I dont like guns, or robot pets, or magic pew pew. This may come as a huge shock but much like you couldnt give a shit about what I like, I couldnt care less about what you like. You call them stupid decisions, I say theyre a step in the right direction. Far as im concerned they fixed one of the few things I didnt like about BRD over the last 2 years. Sorry (not sorry) but id rather do more significant damage (as is my role) than to have some useless (in PvE) defensive perk, running around like a headless chicken which has hardly benefited anyone outside PvP. IF this ability is truly poorly designed then I hope they fix rather than remove it. So QQ, piss, moan and curse all you like im still for it and am letting SE know. Its their decision in the end.

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If the ability was designed as Taban described it, I'd accept it, wouldn't change too much, we'd get our boost in damage and we wouldn't jump/move around all the time.

I haven't done the math but the new stance really screws up on OGC skill weaving. Doing OGC skills (a key part of overall BRD dps) now will delay the start of the next WM buffed weaponskill, reducing overall DPS.

Barrage is a welcome change, although it should apply to more actions than single shot weaponskills.

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Originally Posted by Akuryu

Because all jobs should play the same? Is that the goal? Turning Bard into a BLM with arrows takes away the uniqueness of it's playstyle.

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play machinist instead now with gimpy dps ;D lol

you can move all the time you want, but you will do damage like a paladin ;D


and i think thats why they changed bard.. because they implemented machinist now..