Gating the whole expansion

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

Not sure of for others, but if you are leveling an alt, many people save up i110 and i120 gear for their alt jobs, and as soon as they hit 50 can go from i45 to i110+ instantly. This makes the farming for ilvl that first 50s have to do not needed. In addition, you can then take that i110+ geared job and do all the trials/dungeons which are open from your main. With a FC to help some with queues, I can see it taking 3 hours or so from where the OP is. At least, that is how I've geared my jobs [I don't do the alt thing]. ^^

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But where and how do they get that gear? I can't by any of that on the market-board for the prices they ask

Don't mind about the story being gated. Just disappointed that I can't access the new jobs until I do the storyline. Not complaining, just left a bit disappointed. But I guess that's what I get for leveling to 50 at the game release and then stop playing until like a week ago, lol. At least I get to learn my class again. :P

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Originally Posted by Bracken

Chains of Promathia was the same in FFXI you coudn't progress to the new area's without doing the quests,

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Chains of Promathia was not the same. Yes, there was content locked behind mission quests - but that content was locked behind Chains of Promathia mission quests, NOT main scenario mission quests.

Additionally, there was a TON of content available from the start, without any mission progression required. Bibiki Bay, Attohwa Chasm, etc, etc.

FFXI did it right. Plenty of content for players both new and old. FFXIV, sadly, did it wrong. Plenty of content, ONLY after you've played the game for a month or so. A new player gets nothing but Au'ra.

The worst part is, they didn't HAVE to do it this way. They could have made some zones accessible from the get-go. They could have put the new jobs outside of Ishgard. None of that would have conflicted with the story.

To me, it was baffling why they did it this way, from a business perspective. The ONLY customers who could possibly be happy with these decisions are the ones already playing the game.

I'm not comfortable, knowing that the folks in charge of a game I love are in the habit of making terrible business decisions...

I'm not trying to be insensitive because I understand how frustrating this must be. New threads regarding this pop up every hour, so its obviously affecting a good number of people. However, we (the players) have known for at least 3 months that Ishgard and everything beyond it would be gated by the final "Before the Fall" story quest. It was widely available information and as you say "Who would want to pay for an expansion they can't play?" Well, hopefully no one would do that. If you bought the expansion thinking you'd be able to play in the new areas, then you are suffering from not gaining a bit of information about the product before you purchased it. Because the information is out there, and because you've had 3 months (or more) to get ready for this "gated" content, the fault solely lies on you.

You're very welcome to think this is a bad design. You are completely correct to think that people should NOT buy this expansion if they are NOT ready to play it. However, no matter how many of these threads appear, the game is designed the way its designed and it's not some closely guarded secret. Please do research before you purchase products, rather than blame the developers for your failure to do so.

Again, I'm not trying to be rude. I get it's distressing, but please take some personal responsibility here.

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Originally Posted by Madjames

The point here is that this is a big problem. How can someone be OK with paying for an expansion and being the required level only to find out that they have to run through tons of stupid Pre-expansion bullcrap quests in order to access the main content that they paid for? The answer to me is it is NOT ok and a total stupid move on SE's part. I paid for the expansion and am the required level. Yet I am STUCK doing pre-expansion bullcrap.

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No offence, but the information has been around for ages that this was what is happening.
As for you jumping straight into expansion content? You are still wearing base artifact gear. If you wandered into the new zones in your current gear, the first mob you see would probably bend you over and end you.

You may be the required "level", but you are not the required item level nor experience level.

This whole raging about 'gating' the expac needs to come to an end. If you preordered the expansion and didn't get through the story prior to EA it really is nobodies problem but your own. The information was readily available, you made a poor decision, deal with it.

Honestly though, people like you are probably just never happy. If SqEnix HAD released the expansion without gating it behind finishing the story- you'd have a different thread entitled "I paid for this expansion I shouldn't be dying to level 50 rabbits SqEnix wth"

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Originally Posted by Madjames

Gating an entire area AND new jobs behind the main story is not something that is a good thing nor is it something that I will accept.

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Leave then? This is not WoW, this is not another MMO- saying "but THIS game let me do THIS" is just brain dead. That's like sitting there and whinging that you can't use your Yu-Gi-Oh trap card whilst playing the Pokemon TCG.

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Originally Posted by Takfloyd

Shut up. This isn't soulless garbage like WoW where the "story" consists of boring text dumps in quests that you don't read. if you don't care about story, play a different game. People are so entitled it's disgusting. And besides, the lockout serves more reasons than just story ones. Forcing you to play through the main story also ensures that Heavensward players don't get stuck playing with clueless people who can't even play their job.

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You. I like you.

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Originally Posted by REPROBEAN_CHILD

But where and how do they get that gear? I can't by any of that on the market-board for the prices they ask

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Many have a main that is fully geared in i130, so all of the poetic tomes they get can go towards buying other poetic gear for alts. Same with soldiery, which many people use to get a set of i110 gear to use until they can get the rest of the i120 pieces for their alt. It is just from doing expert roulette dungeons, etc. Again, this is merely how I gear alt jobs, and I'm sure others have better ways ^^ Of course, this only works if you already have a job @50 and can farm those tomes and do the Crystal Tower raid (and weekly). CT, ST, and WoD also drop pretty good non-tome gear that also can be used to gear up alts ^^ [especially World of Darkness since it drops i120 gear and has no loot lockout].

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

FFXI did it right. Plenty of content for players both new and old. FFXIV, sadly, did it wrong. Plenty of content, ONLY after you've played the game for a month or so. A new player gets nothing but Au'ra.

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When did the 2.x content stop being content?

There is absolutely no valid reason for the complaint made by this thread and others.

Do you people expect to be able to jump straight to the final dungeon in single-player FF games if you want to, and get pissy when you have to actually play the story to get there?

"b...but wow did it"

Shut up. This isn't soulless garbage like WoW where the "story" consists of boring text dumps in quests that you don't read. if you don't care about story, play a different game. People are so entitled it's disgusting. And besides, the lockout serves more reasons than just story ones. Forcing you to play through the main story also ensures that Heavensward players don't get stuck playing with clueless people who can't even play their job.

Wait, so what everyone is saying is that there is a story to the game?

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Ehhhh, I don't play this game for the story. I've skipped almost all story, and hey, I still like the game. It is a pretty lame decision to lock all new things behind the MSQ. I would say the main content of this expansion is the new race, new fights, new zones, and some new story. People play MMOs for many different reasons.

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This game is not made to suit your play style then. Personally, the biggest draw for me for the expansion is the story. Which is the direction the devs go. This game is made for people who care about sorry and that makes it unique. I'd rather it not end up like all the others thank you very much. There are many games that suit your play style. Let us have a game that suits ours.

When did the 2.0 content suddenly become irrelevant? There are story reasons why you can't enter Ishgard. New players should be enjoying the early content. Why do you want to skip everything just to get to the new areas? What is the big hurry?

The more time you spend bellyaching on the forums about a decision that was made long ago, the more you could actually be progressing.

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Originally Posted by Ninja-Mage

This really wasn't a surprise from the dev team - they told us like 2 months ago we needed to beat the main scenario in order to proceed.

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More like 5-6 months ago... But you're completely right. The whiners get no sympathy from me. As everyone stated, SE was very forthcoming regarding the pre-requisites to enter Ishgard. It's an excellent story with sublime writing and they just want people to appreciate it. Don't wanna, skip cutscenes. Also, if playing a video game, in any way is "torture and not fun" you need to re-evaluate your hobby..

You want to get into the new areas, get bonus trinkets and get a lvl 90 character handed to you? Go play WoW.

There is the door , game doesn't need players like you.

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Originally Posted by Velisra

This is really my only concern with the storyline gating the xpac. How many players are really going to be doing this required storyline group content at this point?

Sorry, but while I agree with the storyline gating to a point--and I'm definitely enjoying the storyline and the game overall--I'm very worried about how this will go for new players like me when it's time for me to do this group content so that I can progress to the xpac. I have some time yet for good or ill since my lancer is only 38 today, but I didn't preorder HW for this reason.

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It's day 1 of early access. Nobody have time fo trial roulette. And it don't help that the lobby server is down currently.

If you have invested the time wasted in this thread actually doing the MSQ you would be already flying in the new areas, just saying

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Originally Posted by Yuri_Hyuga

From where you're at... it'll take you only about 3h to finish the MSQ.

Just crank it out.

Not only that, you'll be getting exp toward lvl. 60.

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Um, from where he's at the cutscenes alone will take him 3h.

Also, what's up with the forums not letting me use my main character to post?

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Originally Posted by Madjames

Had they allowed to at least ENTER the new area I would be ok. As it is now, I paid for an expansion I can not see AT ALL which in turn is not right. Can I get a refund until I am allowed to get into the expac then? Because I paid for a product I am not allowed to utilize at all.

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Short answer. No, it's your own fault.
Longer answer, you are eventually going to get to it anyway, just do the storyline. If you hate the storyline, why are you even playing the game?

You are actually punishing yourself for not doing these things earlier because right now anyone queuing for the dungeons are queueing for the HW ones if they have the HW expansion, so that means queue times will be longer for all the post-50 content.

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Originally Posted by jazo

If you have invested the time wasted in this thread actually doing the MSQ you would be already flying in the new areas, just saying

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Threads only been up a couple hours. Where the OP is in the story still has 4 more patches of MSQ to do, a lot longer than 2 hours, just saying.

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Originally Posted by Ketsuyame

You want to get into the new areas, get bonus trinkets and get a lvl 90 character handed to you? Go play WoW.

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So you wanna be a rap superstar
And live large, a big house five cars the rent charged

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Short answer. No, it's your own fault.
Longer answer, you are eventually going to get to it anyway, just do the storyline. If you hate the storyline, why are you even playing the game?

You are actually punishing yourself for not doing these things earlier because right now anyone queuing for the dungeons are queueing for the HW ones if they have the HW expansion, so that means queue times will be longer for all the post-50 content.

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Well, to be fair, some of us are using the new EXP added to the High Level Roulette to still go back to the 2.0 dungeons as a small way to level up our level 50s that isn't just pure fate and quest grind. It's something else we can use and leave our low level roulette for helping to level the new jobs.

Someone mentioned that you need to finish the new MS to get the new classes that is not true. You just need to do the elezen brothers(you get lvl51) to be able to see the quests.

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Originally Posted by dekal

Someone mentioned that you need to finish the new MS to get the new classes that is not true. You just need to do the elezen brothers(you get lvl51) to be able to see the quests.

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Not even that. The Machinst (at the shop, is just a regular guild style building) and the Dark Knight quest is just there (The DK quest starts outside the Fortemp house.) I explicitly skipped these quests because I want to come back to them later.

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Originally Posted by dekal

Someone mentioned that you need to finish the new MS to get the new classes that is not true. You just need to do the elezen brothers(you get lvl51) to be able to see the quests.

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I think you've misunderstood, or they misunderstood. You have to finish the original main story quests, not Heavensward's. (That's what people are complaining about in this thread)

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Originally Posted by REPROBEAN_CHILD

But where and how do they get that gear? I can't by any of that on the market-board for the prices they ask

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You can buy the new i115 crafted gear on the markets now. Prices are very affordable too! Finish the MSQ and then make your way to the new expansion areas. It's a great story and worth the longer wait!

I'm stuck with finishing the MSQ myself, and honestly, I'm glad that it's gated. This is a story based game first and foremost and the story would make no sense if you just skipped it. You'll catch up with the others, relax.

The ilvl 115 gear is bought from merchants I think the chest piece was about 15k

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Originally Posted by Madjames

The point here is that this is a big problem. How can someone be OK with paying for an expansion and being the required level only to find out that they have to run through tons of stupid Pre-expansion bullcrap quests in order to access the main content that they paid for? The answer to me is it is NOT ok and a total stupid move on SE's part. I paid for the expansion and am the required level. Yet I am STUCK doing pre-expansion bullcrap.

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It's not "bullcrap". It;s a great story you missing out. You should have known that going into a FF game.

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Originally Posted by jazo

If you have invested the time wasted in this thread actually doing the MSQ you would be already flying in the new areas, just saying

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Like I said in an earlier post, queuetime for trials right now is over an hour long. There's not much you can do when you have to do some trials to progress main quest. He might be in a queue while making the post.
If they removed trials the main quest could be done in a day.

And of course SE is gonna force us to do ifrit again at level 60 or so because of their silly gating behind quest idea.
If you don't play when content is relevant progressing is gonna be sooo slow, but I feel like a lot of people don't consider that when they make their posts

"main quest is easy you can do it in 3 hours"

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Originally Posted by SpiritMuse

When did the 2.x content stop being content?

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The drama here is about not being able to access expansion content, so your comment is irrelevant.

BUT, since you went there, yeah, from a character progression standpoint pretty much all 2.x content is irrelevant now. Thanks to the ridiculous vertical progression model this game uses, there's not a scrap of worthwhile gear to be had in its entirety. Players are made to grind for gear they'll be throwing away in moments, simply so they can meet arbitrary ilvl thresholds to progress past story trials and dungeons. These fights are not challenging unless the players choose to make them so by teaming up with other newbies; using duty finder, they'll more likely than not wind up in a group that can faceroll the content they geared up for so hard, they could have gone in naked.

For those not interested in the story - and that's a demographic large enough that SE shouldn't be spitting in their faces, however much story is important to the FF franchise - it's a giant hamster wheel of grinding for gear that is already obsolete just so they can view more story they don't care about. Honestly, I wouldn't be so down on it if it wasn't for the gear requirements. Watching cutscene after cutscene is tolerable, but having to grind for worthless gear on top of that is just ridiculous.

Me, I love storyline. I wan't Final Fantasy XIV to be an awe-inspiring story, not just a string of cool boss fights. However, if Final Fantasy is going to be awesome, it needs to have money. That means catering to both the story-lovers AND the folks who could care less. Folks talk about main scenario progression like it's a big accomplishment. It was, once, when the content was fresh and new. It is no longer so. Battles that were once interesting and challenging are boring now, both for old players who've done them a billion times, and for new players who can't help but ride on the coattails of the players they party with.

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Originally Posted by Arixtotle

This game is not made to suit your play style then. Personally, the biggest draw for me for the expansion is the story. Which is the direction the devs go. This game is made for people who care about sorry and that makes it unique. I'd rather it not end up like all the others thank you very much. There are many games that suit your play style. Let us have a game that suits ours.

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LOL, thanks for the laugh after a hellish day at work. I'm sorry, but this game is not created solely for those who love the FF story-telling. The story is simply one part of this game. If you fail to understand that people are drawn to different aspects of a game, then I just don't know what to say.

It was public knowledge, as you were.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

LOL, thanks for the laugh after a hellish day at work. I'm sorry, but this game is not created solely for those who love the FF story-telling. The story is simply one part of this game. If you fail to understand that people are drawn to different aspects of a game, then I just don't know what to say.

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I second this. Don't care for the story, love just about every other aspect of the game.

I don't ever expect to get very interested in an MMO's story. When it happens, great. If it doesn't oh well, wasn't expecting it. I play MMOs to be part of a living world and for all of that aspect's perks and for gameplay. I play single player games expecting a good story and good gameplay. One person's reasons for playing this game aren't more important and superior to anyone else's reasons, so this notion that "if you don't like the story, you don't need to be here" needs to go.

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Originally Posted by Kiara1

Like I said in an earlier post, queuetime for trials right now is over an hour long. There's not much you can do when you have to do some trials to progress main quest. He might be in a queue while making the post.
If they removed trials the main quest could be done in a day.

And of course SE is gonna force us to do ifrit again at level 60 or so because of their silly gating behind quest idea.
If you don't play when content is relevant progressing is gonna be sooo slow, but I feel like a lot of people don't consider that when they make their posts

"main quest is easy you can do it in 3 hours"

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You feel like people don't consider when making posts?
Consider this. OP has stated they want to go to the new areas to do mining. Safe assumption this is because they enjoy mining, so what have they probably been doing before EA? MINING. OP treated this game like WoW and ignored the story quests as 'irrelevant' and has paid the price for that.
The information on how to access Heavensward content has been available for months. According to achievements OP hit 50 over a month ago. What did they do? Mining. Got their Atma weapon.

Yeah, trying to do a trial RIGHT NOW is gonna be a friggen chore because of queue times- but I personally went from 2.1 through 2.55 MSQ on my second char last week and it took me at most 5-6 hours total spread over the course of a few days- and that was with rewatching some of the older cutscenes that I couldn't remember. Seeing as OP has no interest in story they could shave a good portion of that through skipping cutscenes. Don't really think it would have been all that much of a struggle to complete even doing a few quests a day.

Yeah- if you don't play when content is relevant progress will be slow. But whose fault is it they didn't do it whilst relevant? SqEnix's????? No. I'M certainly not going to feel any pity.

Maybe you should have put more 'consideration' into your post.

For the record, on virtually every single SE page and in every purchasing page, including PS3 where I bought my copy it states very clearly that you need to have finished the story quest.

Hate to say it, but I told you so. It seems you "veterans" don't know new players after all. ;)

Darn i'm tired!

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Originally Posted by Madjames

The point here is that this is a big problem. How can someone be OK with paying for an expansion and being the required level only to find out that they have to run through tons of stupid Pre-expansion bullcrap quests in order to access the main content that they paid for? The answer to me is it is NOT ok and a total stupid move on SE's part. I paid for the expansion and am the required level. Yet I am STUCK doing pre-expansion bullcrap.

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If you had payed any attention at all, you would have known. I mean any. You would have had to intentionally ignored so much to miss this.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

LOL, thanks for the laugh after a hellish day at work. I'm sorry, but this game is not created solely for those who love the FF story-telling. The story is simply one part of this game. If you fail to understand that people are drawn to different aspects of a game, then I just don't know what to say.

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My point is that games are created with a certain focus in mind and in this game it's story. This is a story driven game period. Yes there are other aspects but story is the main one. Like a car's main aspect is that you can drive it. You can also listen to the radio in a car but that's not the main point of a car. Same with FFXIV. Story is the main point with everything else secondary.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

[...] For those not interested in the story - and that's a demographic large enough that SE shouldn't be spitting in their faces [...]

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

LOL, thanks for the laugh after a hellish day at work. I'm sorry, but this game is not created solely for those who love the FF story-telling. The story is simply one part of this game. If you fail to understand that people are drawn to different aspects of a game, then I just don't know what to say.

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Again, people are free to be drawn to the game for whatever content they prefer most, but it's quite clear that the game's focus, determined by the people who created the game, is the story. SE isn't spitting in the faces of those who don't care about story by making a game that focuses on story. That simply means they aren't in the intended demographic for the game. Seeing as how content gated behind story has been a part of the game since ARR launched, and that they STILL decided to gate content from the very beginning of Heavensward, it seems clear that SE feels they're making enough money to continue to cater to the demographics they've been catering to since launch.

2.x content is most certainly not irrelevant, assuming that story is part of what you play Final Fantasy XIV for.

I actually feel a little bit bad for people that quit this game and decided to come back for this expansion. But only a little. It will be difficult to progress in the old content probably for the next 3 weeks because people that are current with the game are enjoying the rewards of sticking with it.

But really, I would expect that the people who quit before and are behind now will quit again anyway, even if they were caught up.

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Originally Posted by Alexia89

You feel like people don't consider when making posts?
Consider this. OP has stated they want to go to the new areas to do mining. Safe assumption this is because they enjoy mining, so what have they probably been doing before EA? MINING. OP treated this game like WoW and ignored the story quests as 'irrelevant' and has paid the price for that.
The information on how to access Heavensward content has been available for months. According to achievements OP hit 50 over a month ago. What did they do? Mining. Got their Atma weapon.

Yeah, trying to do a trial RIGHT NOW is gonna be a friggen chore because of queue times- but I personally went from 2.1 through 2.55 MSQ on my second char last week and it took me at most 5-6 hours total spread over the course of a few days- and that was with rewatching some of the older cutscenes that I couldn't remember. Seeing as OP has no interest in story they could shave a good portion of that through skipping cutscenes. Don't really think it would have been all that much of a struggle to complete even doing a few quests a day.

Yeah- if you don't play when content is relevant progress will be slow. But whose fault is it they didn't do it whilst relevant? SqEnix's????? No. I'M certainly not going to feel any pity.

Maybe you should have put more 'consideration' into your post.

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Yes OP seems to enjoy mining, should he not get to continue enjoying it because you say so?
I don't like the story, I think it's really bad and it's just something I'm doing so I can do what I really want, which is to get all the glamours I want.

You seem to enjoy the story and I'm fine with that, enjoy it! But you need to understand there are a lot of people who play the game that don't enjoy it and why should only the people who enjoy the story get to do what they like doing in the game?

If they made the story optional they would solve the problem imo. Then the people who like it could do it, and the ones who don't could just keep doing what they enjoy.

"Yeah- if you don't play when content is relevant progress will be slow. But whose fault is it they didn't do it whilst relevant? SqEnix's????? No. I'M certainly not going to feel any pity."

Actually I'd say that SE shot themselves in the foot there. They make a game with heavy vertical progress, but they still dont make the old irrelevant content optional.
That statement basically says "F*K you new players for not playing the game when things were new, you are not welcome here"


The expansion could be a good way to bring in new players, but gating things behind everything will probably keep a lot of them away