Sorry to say but as a long time fan of both TES and FO, I have always skipped most of the dialogues, except a few interesting ones. Also neither Bethesda nor Obsidian is making the MMO (Bethesda's Todd Howard even went as far as saying no TES MMO in the near future) but the new Interplay (mostly concept design) and Masthead Studios (Of Earth-rise "fame"). Here's the beef, Earthrise is like FFXIV, it even shares the same review woes as FFXIV, they are 1/2 year past launch and they are still fixing launch problems. Sure you can say being indie they are not hold to AAA standard but at the same time they don't have the pocket nor conviction to fix their product.Quote:
Originally Posted by weeble
So back into the topic, Immersion is nice and all, but not the end of the world. There needs to be a good mix between Immersion and Streamlining, and that's where options jump in. For example Air Ship, Instant travel for the sake of travel, and long winded travel for airship content, they should not be mutually exclusive.
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09-12-2011, 05:46 PMMariyaShidou
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09-12-2011, 06:32 PMAzurymberrofl, he does remind me of one of those teachers that incessantly grades your papers with a red pen and writes out like paragraphs as to why you used a comma in the wrong place or what you -should- have written.Quote:
Originally Posted by User201109011315
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09-12-2011, 08:09 PMCricaYour opinion is fine as long as it not forced upon anyone who does not wish to share it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyndis
IE- make everyone walk around in the game who does not wish to simply because you wish to walk around in the game.
That is a REAL reason to disregard ANY opinion. -
09-12-2011, 08:10 PMUser201109011315
Games have rules.
It's unfair if everyone doesn't play by the rules. -
09-12-2011, 08:59 PMGennosukeVery true that, feel like i'm back in college being corrected by my language teacher.Quote:
Originally Posted by User201109011315
Rhomagus, with all due respect, you're obviously quite passionate about fighting back with your opinion and that's fine, but i have to agree, your presentation style is actually irritating, that's about 4 of us so far in this thread agreeing on that while you're boasting about it in your signature. No offense but it projects a sense of self-righteousness and can be rather daunting. Why not just summarize your thoughts in conclusion at the bottom of the thread? Just a friendly suggestion. And.. for the love of God, don't dissect this paragraph too :eek:
To OP, yes, agreed. I find the Airship example rather disheartening, and while it's not the biggest of issues the game has faced, i think it's more so the fact that we are seeing more focus on instance based content when this game has alot to offer in a breath taking open world where people can enjoy and interact with each other in so many ways.
As for other games, i'm not big on MMO's in general, so can't really say nor do i care, but personally, i'm really looking forward to FFXIII Versus. I can feel the immersion popping right out of the trailers :cool: -
09-12-2011, 10:26 PMKonachibi
What is this 'immersion'?
Where do I buy it?
It seems everyone is after it, is it in high demand?
Is it mining, botany or fishing?
Can I make a high quality version?
:p -
09-13-2011, 01:22 AMAsterBarnivere
GW2, SWTOR, B&S, ARCHEAGE, TERA (although Brian Knoxx is ruining it now).. Just to name a few.
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09-13-2011, 01:36 AMKonachibi
My takes on 'immersion' with our teleports and fast airships:
Linkables 1
Linkables 2
It won the last 'immersion' thread arguement, perhaps it will again... -
09-13-2011, 01:42 AMEekiki
Immersion...
I'm tired of this word. -
09-13-2011, 05:44 AMDargoth_Draconia
This game has no immersion as far as comparison to any other MMOs out there.
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09-13-2011, 06:03 AMKonachibiYou sir, have not played Fly For Fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia
Or Luna Online
Or Ether Saga
Or Forsaken World
Or.... err.... 90% of the games listed on this page
(Shin Megami Tensei, S4 League and Ragnarok Online are ok though) -
09-13-2011, 11:01 AMRhomagus
To Gennosuke:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gennosuke
Too many "You didn't read my post" responses. Now they don't have an excuse. It's not always necessary to dissect posts, this is one for example, but longer posts and posts where I could be blamed for misinterpretation or "not reading their post" are the motivation for my post structure. I've changed the format to be a little easier on the eyes, and if I have multiple people to reply to I'll include an "all in one" in one giant response putting each individual quote behind spoiler texts.
Otherwise deal with it I guess.
To Yosh Epeen:
Quote:
Originally Posted by User201109011315
I've taken into account the TL;DR crowd. I don't need to appease the TL;DR crowd. If I'm engaged in a conversation and I notice that you're skipping my posts on purpose I'll discontinue the discussion. The information is there for people who want to read it, reply to it, and rebuke it. Just don't say I never read your post or that I quote mined/cherry picked your post. -
09-13-2011, 01:04 PMDargoth_DraconiaIf it is F2P then I most likely haven't touched it. F2P games or games based on micro-transactions bore me to death because they lack everything an MMORPG needs in my opinion to make me want to play it. I have played many MMO's that are P2P and each one of those had more immersion than anything I have personally witnessed in FFXIV. Though I do not lack community immersion in the least in FFXIV, majority of the people I associate with make the game enjoyable when I actually play it. Right now with the pure lack of content I find it hard to play til 1.19 comes out and gives me enough content to keep me happy for another month or two.Quote:
Originally Posted by Konachibi
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09-13-2011, 01:17 PMKonachibiI'm pretty sure S.E wanted the game to center around socialising within the game in order to enjoy it's content. In that regard, you are doing it right (b'.')bQuote:
Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia
We simply need more stuff to do in groups, and we're on the right track.
But let's wait till they've finished fixing the core engine before demanding large chunks of stuff. Wouldn't want a broken cog to mess up the works. -
09-13-2011, 01:27 PMurhryu
Yea, I for one would love to see voice over. I would do all the side quest no matter how simple or how cheap the reward is if there's voice over.
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09-13-2011, 01:41 PMKonachibiSuffering from the same curse Age Of Conan had. Every NPC in Tortage had a voice, however the second you left it to travel to your home-country at level 20, suddenly everyone became a mute, and the player went "Eh?" whilst jiggling the volume up and down on their speakers.Quote:
Originally Posted by urhryu
Many people complained.
Some players quit the game.
However I do see logic in not having lots of voice-overs.
Lots of voice-overs = more harddrive space. Conan was 32gb when it sat comfortably on my harddrive, if every NPC in the game could speak, it could have easily been 40gb if they'd used high quality mp3s.
It also means longer loading times as the game not only needs to load textures, 3D models, ambient sound, music, sound effects and the like, but also each sentence the NPC's involved are going to say. This in turn could cause stuttering as some harddrives may struggle to keep up with the pace of loading large amounts of content constantly.
I know many of the story-arc cut-scenes do feature voice-overs but I have also noticed they seem to take slightly longer to load than ones that do not.
That's 'seems' to, I haven't actually timed it, and the length of time loading could be accountable to how long the cut-scene goes on for.
Anyways, just my thoughts on the matter. -
09-13-2011, 02:08 PMPyrix
The dumbing down of the crafting recipes to the lameness of FFXI's level is breaking my immersion.
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09-13-2011, 02:10 PMKonachibiBecause we are now able to craft equipment and items of a relevant rank rather than having to be 10-20 ranks higher than it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrix
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09-13-2011, 02:57 PMJynxWhile technical issues may be a small part of it, the other is the giant elephant in the room. Voice actors cost a **** ton of money. Not only that but editing, keeping these actors on "Staff" for when they need to do new voice-work. It's why I have to laugh when people tell me it's so awesome the SWTOR is fully voiced.Quote:
Originally Posted by Konachibi
I just want to see how ungodly long they need to wait for any new content to be released. I have a feeling within 6 months of launch you will start seeing more and more content that isn't voiced and eventually see it phased out minus the most important events. -
09-13-2011, 03:01 PMKonachibiThis sir, will probably happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
And those that did not follow the x-wing-wagon to the galaxy far far away will enjoy much merryment. -
09-13-2011, 03:39 PMDonMega
There is all possibility after 1.21 they will have another player pole and try to get feedback from the community, the forums is and has been a great tool for them and i hope to see it continually utilized to help more players get some of what they want in the game, i'm all for exploration though i don't see too much that is going to make me wanna get out there and explore these huge areas in the near future but i think once we see new maps come out they will design them with more things to explore and lots of landmarks that can tie into the region's lore etc., I hope when we see new maps they have learned its not how big the map is but what it has in it.
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09-13-2011, 03:43 PMKonachibiSeeing Ishgard from a distance makes me itch to go there and explore.Quote:
Originally Posted by DonMega
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09-13-2011, 03:48 PMPyrixNo, because I shouldn't be able to somehow make a haubergeon out of an ingot and some cloth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Konachibi
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09-13-2011, 04:22 PMNabiri
OP, all I can say is I agree with all you've said. I feel the world is lacking due to too many hand-outs to those low on time, and not much at all for those of us on the other side, who have more time.
I only hope we have a sense of achievement (in even small things) someday, and a much deeper immersive world.
I've already gone into further details on other threads so.. that's it! lol
Edit:
To those who would argue against another's opinion: you're playing a futile game. State your opinion and leave it at that. Respect others' opinions and perhaps they'll respect yours too, regardless of disagreement.
It would also make the forums a friendlier place without people attacking each other pointlessly. It's one thing to discuss things about the game, and another to argue with an opinion you're not going to change. Just makes you look like a jerk in the end.
Don’t Argue - Discuss! -
09-13-2011, 06:09 PMEstellios
That pony's expression was just the best way to end your post =P
On Immersion stuff, I think the story in this game is actually pretty well done and well written. If you pay attention to what is said by npcs you get a decent amount of characterization of the world and a look at the bigger picture. Hopefully the map revamps add enough meaningful landmarks and things relevant to the lore. I enjoy THAT kind of immersion, not the "forced boat ride" immersion that is best served with an option. Immersion itself is subjective and no one should be penalized for it one way or the other, just rewarded for the extra effort. -
09-13-2011, 07:12 PMDonMegaYeah i look forward to ishgard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Konachibi
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09-13-2011, 07:17 PMKonachibiI'd love if we could climb to the top of it's central tower, especially if they removed the thing in the engine that stops us running off cliffs and stuff, then I'd happily run off the edge of the tower and see if the game was using the havok physics engine.Quote:
Originally Posted by DonMega
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09-14-2011, 12:19 AMDargoth_DraconiaThe current crafting requirements on several things is ineffective and plain retarded, I am for the changes 100% because it will mean I will actually start crafting more. There has been so many times where I wanted to make something I wanted yet I couldn't find anyone to make the parts I needed, couldn't find the materials via crappy ward system, and I couldn't farm some to the amount I needed in a fair amount of time. For the same reason they are getting rid of the parts is because it is nothing but a waste of space for the players and in the wards because no one buys that crap or ever even has it up for sale. You still have the same crafting system which makes the game unique and adds immersion in it's own way, FFXI you just sat there and watched your character do all the work and crossed your figures and pray the retarded animation of your crystal didn't explode in your face so you could say goodbye to all your items. Atleast with this system you have an idea if you know you are going to lose something and with certain abilities you have the option to succeed in the synth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrix
So I don't see how in any way, shape or form that it is dumbing the system down when it taking away the useless parts and making it more effective and efficient for everyone. -
09-14-2011, 12:21 AMUser201109011315Gutting a system because a few tweaks were needed is pretty excessive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia
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09-14-2011, 12:27 AMKonachibiNnununu, this means that I would be able to craft a rank 6 grey hempen beret at weaver rank 6 instead of needing to level one or 2 battle classes up to rank 50, to kill an Apkullu on the chance of obtaining some Apkullu Down just to be able to make a rank 6 item that I would stop using 30 minutes later as the battle rank I was using it for would reach the optimal rank to wear the cotton version.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia
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09-14-2011, 01:23 AMAmyRaeAnd here I thought it was the magic glowing sphere of colors that makes everything for you that wasn't immersive enough. And I suppose smelting an ingot with an iron file and making orange juice with a frying pan is also perfectly rational for that matter...Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrix
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09-14-2011, 04:32 AMsyntaxliesim not really a fan of the self appointed forum police myself. if people don't like the threads why are they always the first ones to bump them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyndis
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09-14-2011, 04:35 AMEekikiBecause you can't respond to a post without bumping it.Quote:
Originally Posted by syntaxlies
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09-14-2011, 05:20 AMPyrixOkay, a fair point, but, I LIKE having to make wire and then wire into rings to make chainmail for the haubergeon! I'm just afraid that experience will be gone :_(Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyRae
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09-14-2011, 05:30 AMweeble
even though it maybe for space too, i think the bigger reason not talked about on why our crafting is getting dumb down is this, if it stays the same, but ..our mele classes and content is getting dumbed down and made to be exes-able for everyone, then crafters will still be able to charge a good penny but mele won't be able to make any gils to buy stuff. heck i think leather is only class where mele can grind mobs to sell for grind items in this game if not mistaken.
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09-14-2011, 05:34 AMKonachibiI also like this aspect of crafting. First time I tried to make a fishing rod I felt like a real proper crafter, 'cos it's not just wood and string, you need hoops to lace the string through to go up the rod, you need to make the string in the first place, and the reel, and the rod, and the hook that goes on the end. That:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrix
Rod + Reel + String + Hoops + Hook = Fishing Rod
This is how one would make a fishing rod in real life
I really hope it doesn't become something daft like:
Wood + Hempen yarn = Fishing Rod
Same with things like swords, it doesn't go:
4 x Copper bar = Copper sword
You need to make the handle and the blade and the grip and have some cloth or leather to wrap around the grip to give it it's 'grippyness', just like a real sword.
I just hope they revise the recipe ranks and what materials are used to make items of particular ranks. It makes no sense that Canvas cloth is a Rank 29 weaving recipe but canvas clothes, tights, robes and all the rest are ranged between 21-28. How are you expected to make canvas gloves at Rank 21 when you struggle just to make the cloth in the first place, y'know?
Then say you want to make a Rank 15 Marauders axe, it requires you to be around rank 18 blacksmith to make the axe head, but you need to have carpentry rank 40 to make the mahogany handle for it. That's just silly.
And as I mentioned earlier, the ridiculous one single material for all types of beret that can't be aquired unless you can kill level 40-50 Apkullu's, or are prepared to spend a fortune buying Apkullu Down in the wards.
They make it so the degree of materials needed are the same (handle, grip, blade, strap etc.) but you can craft all of those things as long as the crafts involved are of the same relevant rank as the resulting item, then it'll be ok. -
09-14-2011, 05:34 AMFinuve
For me, and as many have already complained about my views but either way, immersion is important but doesnt come from any sense of realism like instant teleportation, it comes from having a large scale world with interesting landmarks and areas that as you walk through have a true sense of scale, something on FFXI and FFXIV have captured of all the MMOs I have played, however 14 is marred by unfortunate copypasta
Immersion also is dependent on what I'm seeing at all times, UI thats minimalistic but effective (MMOs have a habit of vomiting UI at you) and doesnt have things popping up in the game world at all times, damage counters, xp counters, ! for quest markers floating over heads, these things are killer for my immersion, I just wish they were toggleable (though leave quest markers on the map) -
09-14-2011, 05:38 AMPyrixI wouldn't call a copy pasted world immersive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finuve
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09-14-2011, 05:40 AMKonachibiI kill my own mobs to craft for leatherworking.Quote:
Originally Posted by weeble
Roselings give good SP, are easy to kill, and drop Dodoskin and Growth Formula Alpha, benefits both my crafting and my battle classes, and I can kill loads in a short amount of time because they don't have that much health, rarely move, and their attack speed is ridiculously slow, usually they die after only taking one shot at me. In the same area as those I can harvest Willow logs to turn into willow chips to use with Dodoskin to make Dodo Leather. Quarry points in the area can also give Midnight Black Scale Bugs which I can turn into Dodo Leather dye.
Before I craft something, I plan the entire process out including the materials I need to gather to do it, if I want to use the things I'm making as a way to grind SP in that craft, I check for places where I can get these things in abundance.
As it is, all Leatherworking, Blacksmithing, Armoursmithing, Goldsmithing and Carpentry needs can be found in Western La Noscea to go from rank 1-20, if you just have the patience to do it.
You could say I'm quite thoroughly immersed in the crafting aspect of this game, as well as exploring enough of it's landscape to gather to materials for those crafts.
Am I doing it right? -
09-14-2011, 05:50 AMweeble
yes, also toad skins later can be farmed too. i'm on this step as we speak, i don't farm them though, with the low pop and barely anyone crafting at them levels the skins cost only 10k each witch equals to the vendor cost after u make them into vamps, so in reality farming them is pointless when u can buy them and vendor all day long.
is kinda nice at the moment, even what was being said a few posts above about the rank 40 carp item in the low level item, in reality it would of been ok if the game was full and doing ok, cause that item could of been selling in wards by stacks from grinders selling them at cost. so grinds from lowbies could be bought out from high levels, but high levels could of also sold to lowbies. but this isn't really happening, people just vendor, it's faster right now and don't change prices to much. they don't sell fast enough to be worth keeping a stack. in ffxi i had to put them in auction then wait for them to sell just to have the money to buy the mats for one more stack.