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05-12-2015, 03:12 PM
RyuDragnier

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nep_Nep

Them days of Darklight armor and when Titan Hard mode scared the hell out of folks. xD I'll never forget the atmosphere of stepping in there the first time for my relic. xD
ah the memories.

Titan HM destroyed me back then due to not having a hardwired internet. I actually miss those days, people were good then and went out of their way to help other players. Now though...you see that far less.
05-12-2015, 03:12 PM
ChaoticDarkGriever

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildsprite

to be honest for steps I kinda expected something like echo so we could all remove it if we wanted and still get the fight as it was. little dissapointed

Yeah, but the those that cried for the nerf aren't going to take off their own Echo if we're paired up with them via Duty Finder.
05-12-2015, 03:13 PM
Twilite

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzraelX

I don't get all the hate about the nerf to steps of fate.

people complained about everyone leaving the instance- so a nerf was needed to stop that

and 2nd you need to pass steps of faith to enter 3.0 so of course they are going to make it as accessible as possible- I was surprised they left it at its normal difficulty for so long.

I've been trying to make sense out of the contradicting reactions towards the nerf myself.
05-12-2015, 03:14 PM
Eul

Wait, Nightmare pony didn't have his own music? Poor pony :(
05-12-2015, 03:14 PM
BreathlessTao

A Joke Reborn? Steps of a Joke? Jokes of Faith?
05-12-2015, 03:14 PM
Iromi

Are they ever gonna stop nerfing stuff? All it does it breed more bad players...

Really hoping heavensward is challenging and stays that way. :/
05-12-2015, 03:15 PM
Spiritreaver1217

You know, i cleared SoF the week it was released. And guess what? It being adjusted now has zero bearing on my character. None.

I'm glad i had a rush clearing it. And now i can be happier knowing that when my bud gets to that fight, it will be a breeze to get him through and HE will have a blast clearing it.

Adjustments to old content really don't invalidate achievements imo. Or at least they really shouldn't.
05-12-2015, 03:16 PM
Songi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iromi

Are they ever gonna stop nerfing stuff? All it does it breed more bad players...

Really hoping heavensward is challenging and stays that way. :/

Exactly. I fail to see how Alexander is going to be any more challenging than any rendition of Coil at this point. Please prove me wrong SE! (I bet you won't).
05-12-2015, 03:18 PM
ChaoticDarkGriever

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I remember those days, where a bad DPS could prevent completion of AK, with decent barely getting you past him and good on up making him easy. Back when skill mattered greatly, back when players actually learned how to play the game instead of QQ for nerfs about everything.

Don't forget about Pharos Sirius. That was a hoot.
05-12-2015, 03:19 PM
Garlyle

All I can think of with the Steps nerf is that it's amusing watching people fight over it like this is a new part of the pattern. Amdapor Keep, Pharos Sirius, Coil in trials/raids, etc.; old content is simplified because experienced players become less and less likely to be running it and those that will need to run it in the future will be a smaller and smaller segment of the population. It's especially noticeable with story progression content; Heavensward is literally going to require people to clear Steps of Faith and already most DF groups don't want to be arsed to even try, and its design basically ensures that gear/levels in the future won't change that.

For those complaining about not having medium-tier difficulty content, that's what challenge mode in the duty finder in Heavensward is going to be for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildsprite

to be honest for steps I kinda expected something like echo so we could all remove it if we wanted and still get the fight as it was. little dissapointed

Honestly I think echo would do almost nothing for Steps. So much of the damage required to clear that fight comes from the interactables and ensuring those interactables are damaging the boss + adds as often as possible.
05-12-2015, 03:19 PM
DragonSlayer45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiritreaver1217

Adjustments to old content really don't invalidate achievements imo. Or at least they really shouldn't.

No, it doesn't. Hey, if you beat T9 pre or post Echo, its still an accomplishment. No one is disputing that. However, that's not the point here. Its that Steps itself wasn't a hard fight by any stretch of the imagination, and it was more on the community making it hard. All of Steps problems would have vanished if people were patient, took an effort to teach new players the fight as opposed to "Steps!? /ragequit"

And I'm not saying there are players out there that aren't bad, but if they don't make an effort to better themselves now, they are in for a rude awakening somewhere down the line when we get another scenario like Steps.
05-12-2015, 03:19 PM
Canadane

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eul

Wait, Nightmare pony didn't have his own music? Poor pony :(

Technically, all the primal horses are a Nightmare mount, which has just been tempered by the primal.
So you get a full array of Nightmare sounds plus the OG music to lul yourself with at any time!
05-12-2015, 03:21 PM
Eul

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadane

Technically, all the primal horses are a Nightmare mount, which has just been tempered by the primal.
So you get a full array of Nightmare sounds plus the OG music to lul yourself with at any time!

Sounds like remix will happen soon lol :D
05-12-2015, 03:22 PM
RyuDragnier

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoticDarkGriever

Don't forget about Pharos Sirius. That was a hoot.

I was happy the few times I beat it before the nerf. Had another DPS and a tank who knew what they were doing (I was with my WHM friend), and we got through the place with little to no problems simply because we worked together and had decent to great skill with our classes. I miss that Pharos Sirius, it gave us a challenge we desperately needed...a shame the loot was crap then though. Plus it feels like the Chrysler Building from Parasite Eve, which gave it a nice boost to my liking.
05-12-2015, 03:22 PM
Twilite

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garlyle

All I can think of with the Steps nerf is that it's amusing watching people fight over it like this is a new part of the pattern. Amdapor Keep, Pharos Sirius, Coil in trials/raids, etc.; old content is simplified because experienced players become less and less likely to be running it and those that will need to run it in the future will be a smaller and smaller segment of the population. It's especially noticeable with story progression content; Heavensward is literally going to require people to clear Steps of Faith and already most DF groups don't want to be arsed to even try, and its design basically ensures that gear/levels in the future won't change that.

For those complaining about not having medium-tier difficulty content, that's what challenge mode in the duty finder in Heavensward is going to be for.

This right here..

Ryu - Chrysler Building itself was easy.. I guess you mean the boss fight at the very end, which was a nightmare.
05-12-2015, 03:22 PM
Wildsprite

Quote:

Originally Posted by Songi

Exactly. I fail to see how Alexander is going to be any more challenging than any rendition of Coil at this point. Please prove me wrong SE! (I bet you won't).

I highly doubt Alexander normal will be more difficult because they made it sound like normal would be on par with the Crystal Tower raids(though I may have misunderstood). so I suspect you will have to wait and see how hard mode is.
05-12-2015, 03:22 PM
Krylo

Prediction: Nerfs to SoF will have minimal/no effect on QQ.

Steps of Faith wasn't hard. The problem wasn't/isn't people not wanting to play differently. I've never been in there where people stuck around after a wipe and not seen improvement. Sure, sometimes it's not enough to clear before timer--but most groups get it in 2 or 3 tries pre-nerf.

Difficulty wasn't the issue.

The issue is steps takes, what? 15-20 minutes, if you clear it in one go (which you never get a full group of vets so it almost always takes 2-3 goes, so about a half hour to an hour)? And has no rewards. And it's on a roulette with things that take less than 5, that people queue into for something quick to do, all of which have pretty good rewards for the (minimal) time investment required (tomes, cards, good light per minute, etc. etc.)

Which causes every SoF run to go: Queue in -> "Oh fuck this" -> Half of the group leaves, and makes it very hard to get a PF going for, because, well, who wants to spend 20 to 80 minutes doing something that will net you zero rewards?

Fixing SoF requires no nerfs. What it requires is to have it drop poetics/soldiery and/or some gear, and move it over to Main Scenario Roulette. As long as it's a 20 minute slog with no rewards mixed in with < 5 minute trials people are still going to go 'Oh fuck this' and abandon.
05-12-2015, 03:22 PM
Canadane

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eul

Sounds like remix will happen soon lol :D

That would be pretty awesome!
05-12-2015, 03:32 PM
Sanne

Why I also dislike the Steps of Faith nerf, I can understand it from SE point of view.

My first character I got it on first day, with 1st DF group (and 3 friends) at 3th try.

With my second character I done it many many times, but 9 out of 10 times people leave the instance before even trying.
And the groups who did try, usually quit after 1 wipe. Some groups really had potential to win, but just given up too soon.

My friends and I wanted to clear it yesterday with a premade group, but things came up and we couldn' t do it.

My friend not gonna like it, he didn' t cleared it yet, but really wanted to clear it on the difficulty it had.
Wish you had the option to do it with the old difficulty.

Still the most difficult thing at SoF was to get a full group, willing to try it :/

I don' t care about ponies, already have it difficult enought to decide between my legacy chocobo, Magi (for awesome music), and the 2 seater (friend) mount.
05-12-2015, 03:34 PM
RyuDragnier

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twilite

Ryu - Chrysler Building itself was easy.. I guess you mean the boss fight at the very end, which was a nightmare.

Oh, I definitely meant that boss. Siren reminds me of that boss in several ways.
05-12-2015, 03:34 PM
Whiteroom

Would have liked to see them add some kind of loot to steps, rather than nerf it. But we'll see just how much it was nerfed by...
was hoping to try that "tank the adds at the entrance" technique before any nerfs.
05-12-2015, 03:35 PM
Ashkendor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iromi

Are they ever gonna stop nerfing stuff? All it does it breed more bad players...

Really hoping heavensward is challenging and stays that way. :/

If you're in a vertical progression MMO and expecting content to not get nerfed as time passes, I'm not quite sure what to tell you. I'm honestly sort of surprised that people are surprised about SoF getting nerfed. I know I've landed in it several times for trial roulette and ended up leaving because it was an unmitigated disaster. When one or two people not doing their jobs can basically hold 6-7 other players hostage for 15-20 minutes per attempt, something really does need to be changed. I honestly think that a way to reset the trial would've been a better idea (for those times you know you're gonna fail), but eh this might be workable; I'll jump into a few tomorrow and see.
05-12-2015, 03:35 PM
Selli

I'm really sad they didn't remove the Poetics cap.

So much for upgrading my side classes with anything decent.
05-12-2015, 03:36 PM
Ultimatecalibur

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildsprite

I highly doubt Alexander normal will be more difficult because they made it sound like normal would be on par with the Crystal Tower raids(though I may have misunderstood). so I suspect you will have to wait and see how hard mode is.

From what I have read and heard, Alexander (NM is going to be around Coil with full echo and appropriate gear (i.e. i80 to i90 BCoB, i100 to i110 SCoB, i120 to i130 FCoB) in difficulty and have its world first clear happen within 1 or 2 days of release.
05-12-2015, 03:37 PM
RyuDragnier

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashkendor

If you're in a vertical progression MMO and expecting content to not get nerfed as time passes, I'm not quite sure what to tell you. I'm honestly sort of surprised that people are surprised about SoF getting nerfed. I know I've landed in it several times for trial roulette and ended up leaving because it was an unmitigated disaster. When one or two people not doing their jobs can basically hold 6-7 other players hostage for 15-20 minutes per attempt, something really does need to be changed. I honestly think that a way to reset the trial would've been a better idea (for those times you know you're gonna fail), but eh this works too.

That actually happens all the time in the tower raids, so I don't think that's a proper excuse, especially since the towers haven't been nerfed.
05-12-2015, 03:38 PM
Wildsprite

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

From what I have read and heard, Alexander (NM is going to be around Coil with full echo and appropriate gear (i.e. i80 to i90 BCoB, i100 to i110 SCoB, i120 to i130 FCoB) in difficulty and have its world first clear happen within 1 or 2 days of release.

if that's the case they can keep it. I didn't like coil before the echo, I still don't like it after the echo. I don't like memory game raids pretending to be endgame. till they stop the memory game garbage and start giving us more dynamic fights as far as I'm concerned we don't have real endgame.
05-12-2015, 03:39 PM
Ashkendor

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

That actually happens all the time in the tower raids, so I don't think that's a proper excuse, especially since the towers haven't been nerfed.

Tower raids don't take 15-20 minutes per attempt on a boss. You try, you wipe, you try again.

SoF didn't even give you the option of the wipe.
05-12-2015, 03:40 PM
RyuDragnier

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Tower raids don't take 15-20 minutes per attempt on a boss. You try, you wipe, you try again.

SoF didn't even give you the option of the wipe.

That I agree with. They really only needed a wipe = instance reset thing, so at least it wouldn't take so long for the reset.
05-12-2015, 03:41 PM
Krylo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Would have liked to see them add some kind of loot to steps, rather than nerf it. But we'll see just how much it was nerfed by...
was hoping to try that "tank the adds at the entrance" technique before any nerfs.

I did that once. Works pretty well, but didn't feel like it worked better than other methods (took 3 goes to clear using it with half the group new, so, average). Basically just need the entrance healer to be good and the tanks to be well geared for vit. Con is it takes off tank off cannons so you lose a DPS to cannons, and the ishgardian reinforcements run back to the adds and die instead of helping DPS Vishap (which they will do if you kill the mini-bosses before they kill all the reinforcements. Seemed to add a lot of damage the one time I got them to stay alive, mostly). Pro is that cannons and DPS have nothing to worry about except shooting/stabbing/whatevering Vishap. With a decrease in Vishap's HP and increase in cannon damage, the DPS losses shouldn't really matter so it might become the strongest meta now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selli

I'm really sad they didn't remove the Poetics cap.

They've already said they ain't gonna. I, personally, wonder if Poetics (and soldiery) will even disappear after Heavensward. New players leveling through from scratch might still like tomes to get them to i90 to do the story line faster/more reliably, and people who don't buy Heavensward immediately might like for them to remain as part of end game.
05-12-2015, 03:43 PM
Wildsprite

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

That actually happens all the time in the tower raids, so I don't think that's a proper excuse, especially since the towers haven't been nerfed.

they said they plan to adjust the tower raids after Heavensward release sometime. honestly I'm a little scared to see what they might do to the tower raids cause steps didnt need the nerf it got.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Tower raids don't take 15-20 minutes per attempt on a boss. You try, you wipe, you try again.

SoF didn't even give you the option of the wipe.

That I agree with. They really only needed a wipe = instance reset thing, so at least it wouldn't take so long for the reset.

it needed a way to reset on full wipe like you all mention.
05-12-2015, 03:43 PM
slml320

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akuryu

Babysteps of Faith

I hear in 2.58, they'll send a Japanese kid to your house to play the game for you. Please look forward to it.

there should be an award for best forum comment this guy just won the grand prize!!! absolutely brilliant!!!
a little pee came out!! :)
05-12-2015, 03:45 PM
ChaoticDarkGriever

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krylo

They've already said they ain't gonna. I, personally, wonder if Poetics will even disappear after Heavensward. New players leveling through from scratch might still like tomes to get them to i90 to do the story line faster/more reliably, and people who don't buy Heavensward immediately might like for them to remain as part of end game.

There will be two new tomestones right off the bat. So yes, Poetics will disappear once Heavensward goes live.
05-12-2015, 03:46 PM
Krylo

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoticDarkGriever

There will be two new tomestones right off the bat. So yes, Poetics will disappear once Heavensward goes live.

For level 60 gear, yes.

That doesn't help people who buy FFXIV next month and need to hit i90 to do Chrys/SoF in order to access Heavensward, or who don't buy Heavensward for a month or whatever.
05-12-2015, 03:46 PM
Ashkendor

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoticDarkGriever

There will be two new tomestones right off the bat. So yes, Poetics will disappear once Heavensward goes live.

I kinda think they're being kept for those that don't purchase Heavensward right away. *shrugs*
05-12-2015, 03:47 PM
asun4

I quit no additional cannons for The steps of Faith!!!
05-12-2015, 03:48 PM
Ultimatecalibur

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krylo

They've already said they ain't gonna. I, personally, wonder if Poetics will even disappear after Heavensward. New players leveling through from scratch might still like tomes to get them to i90 to do the story line faster/more reliably, and people who don't buy Heavensward immediately might like for them to remain as part of end game.

Some reported interviews have them saying that i130 will be good until level 55 and that Soldiery and Poetic gear will be staying on to be one of the primary sources of gear between levels 50 and 55.
05-12-2015, 03:49 PM
LTEvil

yay patch 2.565.

Pony music is a plus...not that i use it for much since most group content is instanced.
Sof nerf is nice i guess, it's kinda a double edged sword though.
Fcob echo is what i wanted, now maybe i can convince more friends to go in with me lol.
05-12-2015, 03:51 PM
LTEvil

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Some reported interviews have them saying that i130 will be good until level 55 and that Soldiery and Poetic gear will be staying on to be one of the primary sources of gear between levels 50 and 55.

The amount of time it takes to level in this game is so small. I hope they raise the required exp per level by a ridiculous amount or this whole keeping poe locked so people aren't over geared is silly.
05-12-2015, 03:56 PM
Evergrey

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shougun

:o I didn't realize Sleipnir is included in their "primal horse" list, I mean.. It is.. but I suppose I just didn't connect them mentally due to how you get him.

I guess that means they will probably intend to make him fly too, since they said primal mounts will fly.

I don't recall them saying that all Primal Mounts will fly, only that Kirin will be able to fly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zhexos

During Letter from the Producer LIVE Part XX, Yoshida mentioned that while it won't be ready at the launch of Heavensward, we do plan on making it so existing mounts become flying mounts, and this includes Ahriman, Kirin, Bomb Palanquin, and Logistics System. In order to make this happen, both takeoff and landing animations will have to be created for each mount, so this will be a gradual process. You can expect to fly with each one eventually though, so keep your eyes peeled for more information in the future!
05-12-2015, 03:58 PM
Selli

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krylo

They've already said they ain't gonna. I, personally, wonder if Poetics (and soldiery) will even disappear after Heavensward. New players leveling through from scratch might still like tomes to get them to i90 to do the story line faster/more reliably, and people who don't buy Heavensward immediately might like for them to remain as part of end game.

I know they said they wouldn't when 2.5 came out. But I figured that by this point they might have reconsidered considering we're at nearly a month until Heavensward. There's roughly only 2,400 more Poetics left to get until the expansion and I was hoping to upgrade at least my weapons from i110 to i130 (especially on classes I REALLY don't play like WAR and DRG because I don't want to take i135 weapons from my static when they actually play those classes). And 2,400 Poetics is only enough for one i120 weapon since you need those stupid ticket things.

I kind of hope they're not removed, but they have removed Tomes in the past (basically any time we get new ones). Perhaps you won't be able to obtain Sol/Poe when you're 60 but only the new Tomes instead and any classes under 60 can still collect them. Considering i130 gear is supposed to take you pretty far (like until around level 55), it wouldn't make much sense to just get rid of them.

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