Cleric stance = Commendation

Im a bit suprised over how different our dungeon experience is.
You must be lucky and get extremly good dps when doing dungeons to find the 250-300 single target, and 500-1k holy spam dps on trash from the healer insignificant.
But at the same time you seem to be extremly unlucky to end up with healers that only dps instead and ignores the healing. with 3 zeta quests finished and a couple of thousand of dungeons done i dont think i've encountered that type of healer more then once, maybe twice.

It honestly sounds like you've just had some bad luck with healers. In my personal opinion I'd say everything in your arsenal is there to be used. A healer should be able to switch back and forth from cleric stance to dps/heal depending on the situation just like a summoner should provide assists on raising people in the group and as bad as they are heals along with a Black Mage if the situation is dire as the healer has gone down. A tank should also be effectively using cool downs, if a Paladin they should be stoneskining them selves when the situation calls for it and WAR's using their self cures to assist in their lack of cool downs compared to Paladin etc.

Most White Mages who cleric stance and spam holy will allow you to get low health and use Benediction to bring you back to 100% on those first really big pulls. I'd also say they are expecting you to be using some strong cool downs to allow them the time to get the Holy spams in which also helps with its stun effect.

The problem with Benediction though is the same as Hallowed Ground. The time it takes to actually go off can be gauged (and often is) incorrectly. Many times I've been Benedicted, or used Hallowed Ground and taken a spike of damage at that moment and I've died only to see the Benediction effect/Hallowed Ground effect go off on my corpse. It takes a little practice but mistakes can and do happen but it's no reason to give up on trying to do the maximum your class can do. You should always push your self and others. In Cleric Stance your DPS will never be as high as a pure DPS class but it will still be a lot higher than if you don't use it. And while the DPS are the main classes for damage the healer and tanks damage in a fight can make or break a clear. Turn 13 before echo could sometimes be real close depending on what has happened and that additional Scholar DPS occasionally can really make a huge difference.

Lol, this argument again? I actually had some tank whine about me using Cleric's stance because "you're a healer, just heal". So after my usual divine seal + medica II + regen to keep him up, I just /mandervilledanced in front of him instead of DPSing :P

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Originally Posted by Urthdigger

Lol, this argument again? I actually had some tank whine about me using Cleric's stance because "you're a healer, just heal". So after my usual divine seal + medica II + regen to keep him up, I just /mandervilledanced in front of him instead of DPSing :P

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Yep, tis is what I'm going to do next time someone makes this comment. /clap

Based on my experienced tho, i rarely get any commendation even when i'm healing and doing dps, however, it's pretty guaranteed that if by some mistakes dps dies then i raised them or raised them again and again without a wipe, at least 1 commendation would be obtained..

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

That's not a very good rule. Just because a healer is in CS doesn't mean they are doing a good job.

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But if they never use it it pretty much guarantees they aren't.

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Originally Posted by Urthdigger

Lol, this argument again? I actually had some tank whine about me using Cleric's stance because "you're a healer, just heal". So after my usual divine seal + medica II + regen to keep him up, I just /mandervilledanced in front of him instead of DPSing :P

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What about Stoneskin? You don't even have to exit Cleric Stance to Stoneskin the tank from taking damage :p.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

But if they never use it it pretty much guarantees they aren't.

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Obviously. But I wasn't referring to them never using it, or using it too often, I was pointing out that one shouldn't give their com just based off the healer using CS.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

What about Stoneskin? You don't even have to exit Cleric Stance to Stoneskin the tank from taking damage :p.

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I'd be all about this if we could clear duties by causing the mobs to vote abandon in the face of overwhelming mitigation, but until that day comes, I believe I'll continue blowing things up ;)

I'm usually playing healer for dungeons as it's usually the most dps I can contribute to DF, the average healer usually standbying so many gcds even in overgeared areas, rather than nuking.

I frankly don't care what the healer is doing as long as that healer is doing their main job. My comms usually goes to tanks or healers that can adapt from a bad situation.

I guess my experiences have been different. As a SCH as my job of choice, I have been groomed to stance dance between DPSing and healing. My efforts are usually unnoticed or hated because I tend to get no commendations when I stance dance flawlessly in dungeons while usually walk out with 2 or 3 commendations when I feel lazy and full heal.

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Originally Posted by cgbspender

WhM at high level is definitely strong. Holy obviously, crits at 1100/1400 + stuns any enemy in range. But that's not all. Even a combo Aero/Earth2/Presence of Mind will strike an average of 800/950 and crits above 1200.

Having such a WhM in a party is a huge asset for the whole team.
Saying otherwise is plain misinformation.

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I think I'm gonna have to call bs on those numbers, though I agree with everything your saying.
I main whm and dps all the time. My nirvana zeta is built for crit and max det. I'm ilvl 128 and when I cleric stance holy crit, I do maybe 1200 max. That's in the highest lvl dungeons, ak hard, KotL, and WP hard.
I'm not gonna lie, that was from my memory from about 3 days ago so I don't got my own numbers in front of me but I'm pretty sure I never got above 1210ish. So what mobs are you getting 1400 on?

As a whm who dps' often, my rotation is this for a speed run super big pull such as a full room of a dungeon.
The tank pulls everything to a spot and just before he stops I use eye for an eye, divine seal cure 2 spam till he is full health. Then I cast medica 2 and regen, mixing in cure 2s to keep the tank alive. Making sure that all my heals over time we're done with divine seal on for max heals.
Then I quickly cleric stance, swift cast holy. Then during the brief cool down downtime I use shroud of saints and presence of mind and holy spam. I can take about half of all the monsters HP before I got to heal again. If damage is too low and I got to dps a bit more I'll use benediction between holy spams so I can use holy a bit more without the tank dying. Then I just cure 2 spam to keep the tank alive after switching back out of CS.

Don't underestimate holy. I can safely say without that, it would be very difficult to do those pulls.
I hope the party appreciates the skill involved with making that possible and doesn't just assume CS=bad healer.

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Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

I think I'm gonna have to call bs on those numbers, though I agree with everything your saying.
So what mobs are you getting 1400 on?

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It's usually in parties of 8 players or alliances, when I get superbuffed by all Requiem Foe and such. I don't crit at 1400 all the time, it happens casually. The average is indeed 1200/1300. Also, I suspect not all mobs have the same Mdef, and that would probably explain the slight fluctuation between 1150/1400. I rarely used a dummy for testing my whm, those numbers are what I get from (mostly) WoD, and the expert dungeons, and a few trials where I have enough time to cast a few holy.

For the record, my set is also based on Crit/Det/SpellSpeed. You may or may not get the same numbers with anything different.

So I have been levelling cnj. Made it to 15 and ran Satasha, played with cleric for a bit. Jumped into Copperbell Mines...No cleric for me! Made it through by the skin of my teeth. Kudos again to the clerics, a lot going on if you are juggling.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

My damage as a healer is relatively insignificant and Cleric doesn't effect DoTs so I simply don't use it.

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Source? As a sch my dot damage is increased when in cleric stance and it's more than just the 10% from being in cleric stance.

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Originally Posted by VitalSuit

Source? As a sch my dot damage is increased when in cleric stance and it's more than just the 10% from being in cleric stance.

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You are correct, Cleric Stance swaps your Mind stat with your Int stat, Int being the primary stat that will determine how much damage your DoT's will do based on potency. Healer DPS can be quite significant, and can even be higher than some of the lackadaisical DD's you encounter in the DF.

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Originally Posted by cgbspender

It's usually in parties of 8 players or alliances, when I get superbuffed by all Requiem Foe and such. I don't crit at 1400 all the time, it happens casually. The average is indeed 1200/1300. Also, I suspect not all mobs have the same Mdef, and that would probably explain the slight fluctuation between 1150/1400. I rarely used a dummy for testing my whm, those numbers are what I get from (mostly) WoD, and the expert dungeons, and a few trials where I have enough time to cast a few holy.

For the record, my set is also based on Crit/Det/SpellSpeed. You may or may not get the same numbers with anything different.

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Ah I see, that makes sense

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Originally Posted by Carvaka

So I have been levelling cnj. Made it to 15 and ran Satasha, played with cleric for a bit. Jumped into Copperbell Mines...No cleric for me! Made it through by the skin of my teeth. Kudos again to the clerics, a lot going on if you are juggling.

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As you run dungeons over and over, you'll learn when big damage goes out and it becomes easier to go into Cleric.
I know the first.....fifty levels I was too nervous to use it, hahaha......

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

What about Stoneskin? You don't even have to exit Cleric Stance to Stoneskin the tank from taking damage :p.

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Unfortunately stoneskin is far too slow and inefficient. Better to drop out of CS, cast my cures, and pop back in.

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Originally Posted by Carvaka

So I have been levelling cnj. Made it to 15 and ran Satasha, played with cleric for a bit. Jumped into Copperbell Mines...No cleric for me! Made it through by the skin of my teeth. Kudos again to the clerics, a lot going on if you are juggling.

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This tells me you'll make a great WHM. Using CS is all about gauging your skills, the tank's skills, and the dungeon to tell when you can use it.

I love stance dancing on my whm. As i am leveling my pld to 50, i'll give most of my commendations to a dancing healer if its done correctly.