Unless the number of people that quit are in massive droves (like a few hundred thousand or more), Square has no reason to care. People quit the game all the time and when they quit fluctuates.
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05-01-2015, 11:25 PMMilesSaintboroguh
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05-01-2015, 11:33 PMSkivvy
I'm a bit baffled by all the posts regarding RMT. Is this the first MMO for a lot of you? As the JP player stated, this is common in all MMOs, and definitely not specfic to just XIV. Since SE is constantly trying to stay a leg-up on the RMT, it would make no sense at all for them to inform the public what measures have been put into place and what exactly gets your account flagged, otherwise it would be incredibly easy for RMT to side-step these things.
Another thing, I'm not sure if all MMOs handle them the same, but from the handful I've played, they tend to do mass bannings for RMT at a single time. They will toss their net, collect what they can, and then ban them all together. Yes, that means that you'll have to endure a few things for a little bit, but we'll all survive.
And lastly, as pointed out earlier in the thread, Gil Buyers. The community itself is a huge part of the issue as we are the ones who provide the RMT reason to be here in the first place. Good luck getting people to stop buying gil though. (no, I do not buy) -
05-01-2015, 11:54 PMIromi
Yea I know quite a lot of my friends who got sick of the tells and never came back lol. Then messaged me on fb why they quit and said it was cuz the rmt tells and constant friend requests. Then compared it to wow and went back to wow.
Its weird, but it happened :x -
05-02-2015, 12:03 AMNyaliaIt doesn't sound like the real reason they quit was RMT, it sounds like they just wanted an excuse to go back to WoW :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Iromi
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05-02-2015, 12:03 AMRiepahIt isn't. And that's exactly why the RMT issue in this game stands out as the worst ever seen in any P2P title. And that's rather pathetic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skivvy
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05-02-2015, 12:05 AMKalleraI remember doing this in MMOs I was less situated in too. It is not that unusual for people to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iromi
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05-02-2015, 12:14 AMNyaliaI dunno about other people, but I for one don't care in the slightest what they do to actually catch and stop RMTs themselves. I just want a few simplistic QoL changes so I can avoid their advertising spam, like the ability to decline friend requests from the friend request pop-up. Refusing to make changes like that one and refusing to give a reason for that refusal makes no sense to me unless they either want people to see the spam or just don't care about their NA customers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skivvy
On a totally separate note, SE's customer service on the NA servers is wonderful at responding to reports of harassment. Sure, I don't actually know if anything has ever come of such a report, but they're really quick to respond when I report someone for doing stuff like making racist, misogynistic, homophobic, or transphobic slurs. They gather info from you so they can look at the encounter in their logs, they are sympathetic, polite, helpful, and really make you feel like they're going to do something about it (there's no way to know if they do or not since they obviously can't tell you the results of their investigations or the actions they take for totally sensible reasons).
Report actual harassment, they care. Report RMT, they might send you a canned message saying to blacklist the RMT (because that works SO WELL) and otherwise ignore them. -
05-02-2015, 12:37 AMGemmaThis^Quote:
Originally Posted by Peachy
I feel if SE doesn't want to permanently get rid of the gil buyers then give us as a community a way to see who is doing it so we can choose if we want to associate with them. Even if someone from my own FC that I was friends with had this symbol you're damn right I would boot them.
It's only going to get worse in Heavensward SE, better do something soon.. -
05-02-2015, 12:47 AMParodineMy first MMO was FFXI. The botting and NM camping the RMT did sucked, but there was a period of time where I was getting persistent RMT style tells for a month and it was terrible. Then, the team did something magical with /tell filters (whatever they did, I dunno) and I never (key word, NEVER) got another RMT /tell again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skivvy
I don't care if they don't ban all the gold sellers. I don't care about the bots as much. I care about the /tell spam. That is something absolutely fixable. -
05-02-2015, 01:42 AMMageBlack
Umm, how do we know people arent receiving perma-bans for gil purchasing? Last I heard they have and continue to do that. Not every single case, sometimes its removal of said gil. IIRC some time after launch of ARR people who sold stuff on the market that was bought with Gil seller money were being docked those funds. It was illegitimate money so it was removed, even the people who just innocently sold things on the market were targeted.
I get the frustration with RMT people but if SE were to publicly detail their plans to deal with RMT all that would do is give them the heads up to counter it or work around it. "The government publicly announced their secret plans to attack ISIS." It frosts me how people get so uppity about it, just put yourself in SE's shoes. Not only do you have RMT screwing with their economy in the game causing them a crap ton of extra work to remove, block, prevent, etc them but you also have the people buying the gil that perpetuate the problem, then to add insult to injury, the playerbase constantly tearing into them and blaming them for "not doing enough", as well as the corporate people who are also breathing down their necks about it.
I'm pretty sure SE is even more unhappy about RMT than you are.
Just my 2 gil. -
05-02-2015, 01:44 AMbalte049
Really easy to not get banned for buying gil.
The only people who get banned are the bozos who think they can buy 100 million without being noticed. -
05-02-2015, 02:16 AMOrspethThis is far from my first MMO - but this is hands down the WORST I have ever played as far as RMT and botting goes. If I could at least block tells and friend requests from strangers w/o having to use busy status, I would be less annoyed. These topics need to stay on the front page, every day till something is done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skivvy
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05-02-2015, 02:34 AMLaraul
The problem is RMT /tell SPAM is an annoying mess, and as of yet SE has not bothered implementing any counter measures to keep such activity under control. These could include flagging accounts that send more than five tells to five separate targets in five seconds. Heuristic filters that not only take into consideration message content, but character level, play time, etc into consideration. They only appear to rely on in game reports, which are not as easy for players to create as they should be (ie a REPORT SPAM option).
Thus, right now the only option is for people to resort to third party tools to control this garbage. And though it's clearly a violation of the ToS, SE lack of response against this SPAM would indicate they would rather turn the other cheek, then confront this issue head on.
If the only way to get their attention is to post in the Japanese forums, so be it. It would seem unlikely this SPAM would be much an issue on Japanese servers do to the language difference and weak value of the Japanese Yen compared to the U.S dollar. Why target the Japanese servers when all the customers RMT want to target are on the most populated NA/EU servers. -
05-02-2015, 03:36 AMStormrider
A few other games are proactive to reactive to rmt. Is the reactive approach more affective, I don't know. But during the crime real players suffer. Luckily in this game the only real pain is chat. They can't steal mats since mobs spawn fast enough and we don't share gathering nodes.
What I find weird in this game is most prices always go down. Games with mass rmt that we supposedly have, always have mass inflation. It is extremely noticeable when an exploit floods their coffers. But daily items are a good 1/3rd of what they were a year ago. At least on Balmung this includes high priced items to mass use items like shards. -
05-02-2015, 04:14 AMMugenMugetsu
I see a lot of people mentioning, "SE doesn't want to come out and reveal their plan of action to eliminate the RMT." That's not what the point of my post in the JP forums was, and has never been the intention of any post I've made regarding the RMT situation. I'm not asking for SE to fully explain every detail of how they plan to eliminate RMT. I was just merely hoping that by making the effort to rally support from the JP community that we might bring more attention to the issue, specifically the attention of SE, and hopefully get our very first response ever from a community mod regarding the issue which I would assume to be a kind, "We appreciate your feedback and concern regarding the issue. We will be working to address the issue. Please be patient. The RMT problem will be addressed. Please look forward to it!"
Thank you to everyone who has posted in support. Your support is greatly appreciated. A VERY big thanks to Risver and Kyuven for posting in the JP forums to try to help the JP community understand what I was trying to inform them of, and ask them to help with! You guys rock!
I look forward to a day when we will no longer be inundated with RMT /tells, /shouts, and friend requests. Will that day every come? Only time will tell. Until then I hope the game retains enough subs and gains enough new subs to be very, very, successful and prosperous so that we can enjoy Eorzea and Hydaelyn for many years to come! -
05-02-2015, 04:32 AMMageBlack
Thank goodness you mentioned it! If you hadnt, i dont think the devs would have ever known.
Sorry for the sarcasm but really, I'm pretty sure they know there is a problem by now. I feel for the people affected by this and hope something does get done, I posted a better reply at the bottom of the page before this one.
"There comes a point where arguing against a troll becomes indistinguishable from the troll themselves." That's how I'm beginning to feel about all these RMT posts. Fight fire with fire? Good way to burn everyone. -
05-02-2015, 04:34 AMWelsper59I've honestly grown somewhat used to the /tell spam... which is also partly why I'm rather anti-social as of late. I don't even look at the chat log for 90% of my time on the game anymore. Any /tell sounds I hear just get ignored, like the sound of footsteps my character makes, it's nothing but background noise now. Yeah, I could just /busy, but if I already don't notice it much at all, it really doesn't affect me to have it on or not. Plus, I tend to forget to do it, and by the time I notice, I've been hit by a hundred of them... anyone that tried to message me through any form of chat just got ignored, so oh well.Quote:
Originally Posted by MugenMugetsu
The friend requests though... I hate those. That stupid ass pop up is annoying as all hell (not to mention that saying No to accepting the request doesn't end the request... you need to do it through the friends list, so wtf is the point of the pop up asking that?), but like the /tells, maybe I'll just learn to block out that section of the screen from my notice. I will tell you one thing though, if they ever do decide to instill effective filters for players to use by choice, it'll be like playing a brand new game... since it'd be like I'm suddenly able to notice there's a chat box! -
05-02-2015, 05:13 AMNyaliaYou can turn off the sound from tells, and you can turn them off entirely if you want by making them not display in your general chat tab. I think I'm going to do this next time I get into game, after letting my friends who regularly send me /tells know that they have to use shared LSes or FC chat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Welsper59
I think I have a solution to solving the friend request problem: fill your friends list with random people. If it's full, I would guess they couldn't send you requests (can anyone confirm that?). If you want to friend someone after that, they can send you a tell and you can remove a random person. Err, wait, I guess they can't send you tells if you also turn off tells... Well, they can interpretive dance in front of you. That's how you'll know to remove one of the randoms from your full friendlist so you can friend them.
Time to friend my entire FC and my three main LSes!
EDIT: Also, I was temp-banned for my previous post about the true reason SE won't take care of RMT advertising and the post was deleted. Whenever anyone points out that one little fact, they instantly delete the post and ban the poster (second time it's happened to me, and I've seen at least two other people also get that treatment). That sure makes it seem like that one little comment is quite close to the truth, and they don't want anyone to know it... -
05-02-2015, 05:27 AMFortified
All the anti-rmt posts is getting more annoying than the actual rmt spam.
Square Enix has 3000+ employees; annoying the Japanese Players is unnecessary. They're reading these posts, but they aren't going to issue a new statement every day.
"RMT spam is getting worse" I have been seeing far less spam on my server.
"FFXIV has the most RMT spam" You've clearly never played MapleStory.
"The Japanese servers have less RMT spam because SquareSoft likes Japan more" No it's because Japanese players don't buy gil and the rmt companies know this. Why spam people who don't buy your product. And Square has an American office that talks to the dev team. The dev team knows about the rmt problem. Just relax. -
05-02-2015, 05:39 AMNyaliaSeriously? When do you play? In the evenings (EST), I get about one spam message every two minutes. Friend requests only come like, once every couple hours, but are infinitely more annoying. I've had five minute tell conversations that were interrupted five times by RMT spam. ... and when I accidentally send a reply to the RMT that spammed while I was typing, I keep habitually telling the RMT "Sorry, MT" before blacklisting and re-replying. <_< That's happening to me more and more frequently due to the increasing amount of RMT spam on Fairie.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortified
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05-02-2015, 05:39 AMZabuzaAnd what do they plan to do about it? It has been two years now, and the RMT problem has gotten worse instead of better. If they know about the problem, why is nothing definitive being done?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortified
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05-02-2015, 05:42 AMFortifiedI don't know. But making 10 threads a day won't make them answer. And don't forget about this. They are doing something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zabuza
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05-02-2015, 05:46 AMFortifiedI don't know what to \tell you. I play late afternoon and evening typically. I just don't get very many tells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyalia
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05-02-2015, 05:47 AMMageBlackNothing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zabuza
April 30th action taken
April 16th action taken
April 9th action taken
Just keep clicking "Older", i think you get the picture. If you really want I can track down some of their older posts where they detailed some of the things they did and were doing and their best practices but I'm sure if you were acually interested in know what they did/do, you would look for it on your own. -
05-02-2015, 05:50 AMTwilite
They are doing the same thing they did in FFXI, it will take a few years before RMT is all but gone, or at least very ineffective.
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05-02-2015, 05:59 AMMugenMugetsuThe great thing about the forums is you don't have to click on a anti-rmt thread if you don't feel like it, and the thread title doesn't take up the majority, if not all, of your list of threads like how RMT /tell or /shout spam typically take up all, or the majority, of your chat log. Also, reaching out to the Japanese players was an act of desperation as SE and the Devs native language is Japanese. It would have been much more likely for their attention to have been drawn to the issue if the Japanese community lended us their support in requesting help regarding the issue. I wouldn't call making one thread in their forums "annoying them" and as far as issuing a new statement every day.......we have had 0 responses from the community mods or SE in an unknown number of days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortified
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05-02-2015, 06:52 AMNyaliaSure, but for many of us, that's not what we care about or what we're talking about. What we care about is not seeing RMT spam. Forcing RMTs to buy new accounts doesn't directly cut down on the RMT spam that we see. They have only made a single change since 2.0 that I know of so far to assist us in making RMT spam less painful - they changed it so that, when you blist someone, /r doesn't send replies to that person, it goes to the person before them who last sent you a tell instead. That's it. That's the only change, as far as I know, that they've made to make RMT spam more bearable for the players.Quote:
Originally Posted by MageBlack
Most of us are asking for something to make the RMT spam less painful, not an eventual end to RMT. Maybe an option to restrict tells to members of your friendlist, or the ability to decline a friend request from the pop-up dialog box, or something. RMT isn't going anywhere anytime soon, sure, whatever, but can we please have some help curtailing some of the advertising spam shoved in our faces every day? =\ -
05-02-2015, 08:22 AMMageBlackRMT's make a living out of this. they have been in buisness since the olden days of Diablo (possibly even further) and many of them are affiliated, sharing their mountain of experience from other MMOs. SE throws up one stumbling block, they switch tactics. SE bans them, they steal more accounts, CC info, etc. They throw up IP blockers, they VPN. The more things companies throw at RMT's the more they learn and grow. Its highly unfortunate and I'm not unsympathetic to the cause of eliminating them but I'm also not unrealistic about the situation. If you think you are upset with RMT, imagine how SE feels. RMT are screwing up their game and pitting players against them too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyalia
Well played RMT, well played.
EDIT:
I see many suggestions like "restrict tells to your friends list" Then I wouldnt have met half the people I did. Its a delicate balance between stopping RMT and hindering functionality for legitimate players. With every solution you can come up with, think about how that could adversely affect a player. -
05-02-2015, 09:54 AMOrspethI would rather restrict tells than have the present situation. Don't know you? Don't whisper me. Problem solved for most people. This needs to be implemented - now.Quote:
Originally Posted by MageBlack
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05-02-2015, 01:40 PMZabuzaI know about that and it means absolutely nothing to me. I'm sure it's a lot more money in SE's pocket when the RMTs are constantly forced to buy new accounts, but for me, it does not cut down on the amount of spam sent to me even one iota.Quote:
Originally Posted by MageBlack