Why I Decided to Become an Elitist

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Originally Posted by Adrian74

People unable to communicate in English?!... OH NO!... Now I'll have nightmares remembering my worse t11 ever made... It was a premade of 7 Frenchs and... They just seemed to ignore me for not being French or NONE of them understood me... Sigh, they didn't even accept my advise, the simplest one I could give them of "WAR -> Sphere (Weapons node)" PLD -> Cube (Gravity node)"
"Storm's path (Using autotranslate) needs to be applied to sphere, OP damage. PLD needs to use fight or flight for aggroing cube"

No, they just went like they wanted all the time. At the end I was thinking about ragequitting, but they finished kicking me before that, thanks god, the unique good thing they did.

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Whahaha I know right XDDDDDDDDDD

@Nuyu,
Just come to Gilgamesh, makes your ff experience a lot easier.

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Originally Posted by Madepossible

Lalaru on the side note: you are from Lich - I had an alt there and when I went into Duty finder I met people who were unable to communicate in English and messed up simple mechanics: how do you deal with those types of people? If you wipe a few times and you don't know how to communicate in their language, don't you just have the urge to leave as it's pointless to explain how the mechanics work?

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{Please use the auto-translator.}

It really isn't that hard to use...

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Originally Posted by Madepossible

Whahaha I know right XDDDDDDDDDD

@Nuyu,
Just come to Gilgamesh, makes your ff experience a lot easier.

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Thanks, appreciate your offer... Will go there someday but not now please wait for me my dear :p

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Originally Posted by AskaRay

{Please use the auto-translator.}

It really isn't that hard to use...

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Learn English - it's really not that hard to learn...

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Originally Posted by Madepossible

Learn English - it's really not that hard to learn...

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That too- though I'm glad English is my first language. Ugh I can't imagine learning it.

Also since Lich is on the EU data center, remember German and French both have official clients, and since they're both greatly spoken in the EU (more than JP or US obv).... then, well.... they have just as much right to speak in those languages.

Though I DO notice an influx of French players who insist on using the English queues and then not...speak it...

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

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Agree with everything but just a little note. While making FC or LC maybe troubling due to different play styles and time in game for most people there is always option of Party Finder. You can just state that it is learning group and elaborate on it a bit.

@nuyu,
Welcome! ﾟ･✿ヾ╲(｡◕‿◕｡)╱✿･ﾟ

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Originally Posted by AskaRay

That too- though I'm glad English is my first language. Ugh I can't imagine learning it.

Also since Lich is on the EU data center, remember German and French both have official clients, and since they're both greatly spoken in the EU (more than JP or US obv).... then, well.... they have just as much right to speak in those languages.

Though I DO notice an influx of French players who insist on using the English queues and then not...speak it...

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I couldn't stay there lol too much headache! ;p

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Originally Posted by Madepossible

@nuyu,
Welcome! ﾟ･✿ヾ╲(｡◕‿◕｡)╱✿･ﾟ


I couldn't stay there lol too much headache! ;p

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IDK since I'm lazy and didn't want to be on the JP data centers... having to choose between the US and the EU....
easy choice. I don't really like playing with other Americans.

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Originally Posted by Madepossible

Lalaru on the side note: you are from Lich - I had an alt there and when I went into Duty finder I met people who were unable to communicate in English and messed up simple mechanics: how do you deal with those types of people?

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Well, when autotranslate fails too, there not so much to deal, unless I just "deal with it" and go with the flow, until someone ragequit or we (finally) end duty. I'll move to "silent mode" and try to do at least my job at its best. A pug is a pug, afterall :)
If I am the one that quits, that happens mostly because it is late on my side and when I see the 30min I were expecting will most likely turn to all 90min, I will ditch the party. And I will eat the penalty, but no issues, if I leave is to logoff and go sleep :p

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Originally Posted by Hala

Agree with everything but just a little note. ... there is always option of Party Finder. You can just state that it is learning group and elaborate on it a bit.

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It will be common sit there and wait hours, but anyway a good one if you do something else in the while, yes. :cool:

Good read, even though I am sure the people you aimed it for will likely disregard what you said. +1

In the current meta, we must all find others with similar interests that are not worse or better than ourselves in skill and patience... or there will be conflict. It is as people say: the hardest part about this game is finding 7 others.

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Originally Posted by SaintAjora

Oh, I've never rejected a vote abandon to hold anyone hostage. ?_? I've rejected them because it's usually one disgruntled person who wants to leave, while the rest of us are willing to go back in there and try to get it down instead of running away

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Sometimes, a person may simply be impatient, or less persistent.
Other times, that person may simply have a clearer vision of what's to come, or is able to see clearly what is a lost cause.

I've seen it both ways, I've seen one person try to abandon repeatedly while the group as a whole were improving every attempt and making progress and I've seen cases where people just simply refuse to give up when it's a lost cause. In fact, I have a friend irl who's just like that, wanted to run arena with me in WoW as a Prot DPS Pally with my Resto Druid.. His favorite words were, "you never know until you try".. Well sometimes, you can see disaster from a mile away.. It's just the difference in our clarity of visions.

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Originally Posted by Sylkis

In the current meta, we must all find others with similar interests that are not worse or better than ourselves in skill and patience... or there will be conflict. It is as people say: the hardest part about this game is finding 7 others.

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Yes, that is indeed the hardest part about this game. Harder than the actual fights themselves.
For some of us, it'll be finding people who do not give up when the going gets tough, for others, it'll be finding people that know when to call it quits and come back to fight another day.

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Originally Posted by GenJoe

"you never know until you try"

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Nothing ventured, nothing gained

Here's why someone whose an 'elitist' may vote abandon or leave earlier than you'd like.


They cleared that content with lesser gear and with no echo, they spent days, maybe weeks wiping on it to finally clear it till they got it on farm. They went through all of that, and now, 6 months later when people over gear it and have echo and that guy walks in and says 'how do i do this' they get PTSD and say screw this I'm out when things go south. Not to mention we do tend to have a decent grasp on the mechanics because we have done it so many times, and we see what people are doing to screw up, if it's one of those oh well honest mistake kinda things we will ignore it, if we see it and can instantly spot it's a basic mechanic kinda thing where they really have no idea what to do then you kinda just lose the will.

Then of course other times it's just people being impatient and straight up leaving because they have ADD and if it's not down in 5 seconds their head explodes and they start running around their room in circles whilst licking their keyboard.

Ultimately, if you want people to stick around through wipes, you need learning parties. If you want more learning parties, do the content when its fresh. Other than that you just have to wait for the next new content and plug along with the old stuff and deal with the group you get.

As for me, I just run with my FC or Static and PF when I feel like it. DF I just stay the hell away from these days unless its expert roulette.

OP, thank you for making such a seemingly rage inducing possibly troll sounding thread into a forum (in this case, thread) of intelligent conversation.

I don't have the time right now to quote and respond to everything I'd like to but I would like to add where I think the elitist attitude comes from.

Just to give you a little bit of background, I have cleared T12, learning T13 now. Some people use the term elitist to describe people who put them down while they are learning the content in a learning party. Sometimes as a joke to put down their friends. Sometimes it's used to describe people who raid as if by raiding alone makes them an elitist.

Elitist is used in many more ways and in many more circumstances. I have even thought myself to be falling into the elitist group at one time because I was getting mad at people who were still learning (the fight for the first time or as a new class).

Anyways, I think Elitists (this term) should be reserved for people who hold the attitude that other players should play the "right way" right now and/or to clear them/carry them through content (be it a simple dungeon like Haukke Manor to T13) without putting any effort into learning the mechanics be that if they are new or experienced or fatigued or alien or whatever.

If people put effort into learning, be that at the time for people who like not watching videos or before hand for people who watch videos, they are not bad. There could be a multitude of reasons why what happened happened. (Today, I felt really bad for talking about somebody who didn't accept the raise instantly at the end of an ST run for half the fight, I said to the party, let's kick him... Then he came back and said... I participated through everything else and I had to pick up my 4 year old child) Even then I am not elitist but I was an asshole.

If you say during a farm party that you will let someone have the dragoon gear and agree to that deal and then proceed to roll on it.. You are an Asshole, not an elitist.

Elitists are people who want things done their way now and want everything done for them without any difficulty or frustration. These are the people who buy clears for farms and to an extent the people who sell these clears.(As their motivation is to earn a quick buck now without any difficulty or frustration) This is also the people who buy Gil from Gil'Sellspam hello my friend, I have a frocking message for you, creators of bots like you and buyers of your wares are the ones that are truly poisoning this game and making things more annoying for the rest of us. If you have this attitude more than you don't, please log off and never come back to this game.

Disagree with me all you want, this is my opinion. Sorry if I didn't convey my message properly. I will gladly elaborate if you have any questions.

Also Congratulations as well to person on Masamune who cleared T9 the other day. Good job. Go for Final Witness Status! ^^/ May I add you as I have an alt on Madamune o/ ^^

Edit: I don't believe you are an elitist for not wanting to lose in content and only wanting to win. But at the same time if you've wiped in that content before or have been helped ^^ Come on, you should help! This does not apply to you if you help people on a regular basis! ^^ Keep joining those learning parties!

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Originally Posted by Miyu20

into a forum (in this case, thread) of intelligent conversation.

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What forums are you reading?!

I only skimmed the OP and I'm too lazy to read through the rest of the replies, but I'll say there's nothing inherently wrong with being "elitist". The problem is some people don't seem to realize you can be elitist without being an asshole.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

I only skimmed the OP and I'm too lazy to read through the rest of the replies, but I'll say there's nothing inherently wrong with being "elitist". The problem is some people don't seem to realize you can be elitist without being an asshole.

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The biggest problem I see is people often use the word elitist to describe anybody that claims or acts as they know more than one self. But the simple fact is, there are always people who's gone further than you have and seen more than you have.. When people refuse to accept advice that comes from experience, that's when it becomes problematic.

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Originally Posted by nuyu11

Nothing ventured, nothing gained

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Yeah.. guess what, my friend got stuck at 1200s before finally giving up and switching to a ret pally while I was working my way over into 2000s with a viable composition.

There's a reason hundreds and thousands of other people have a thing called a "standard" cookie cutter build.. It's not because they lack creativity or vision, simply, it is the most ideal solution that was reached by the general consensus. Can there be other solutions? Of course, but if thousands of people before you didn't find it, then likely, the solution's already been optimized.

Try playing every game with a friend who just doesn't know when to give up and you'll soon find out what I mean. He literally tried to dps as a MRD in this game while tanking dungeons.. Then tried to heal as Pally.. tries the most ridiculous builds and it's all fun and games until he tries to get into an arena group with you -_-


P.S. If you think I'm veering off topic here, I'm just giving an example of how some "elitists" may feel. They can already see when it's not going to work, but some people just refuse to accept the truth.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm just bad at Titan Extreme, I seem to struggle with it. I've seen the videos, understand in my head what should happen, but I'm not the best at dodging his moves, an one mistake can kill ya. But then thats way I tend to avoid it on a normal bases and have yet to beat it. And I'm afraid that if I enter as a White Mage, I'd end up killing the group.

I've been stuck at this point for awhile now and thinking I just might need to save up some gil.

Mr Loren, please do not become discouraged and think you have to save up Gil in order to clear content. Please just continue practicing ^^ Most of the time in my experience, if you tell people in a clear party "I haven't cleared this yet but I've gotten past the Gaolers and am screwing up on the Boulders... They will explain it to you and/or let you in their part or kick you out.

Worst they can do is say sorry but no.

Communicate to people and they will communicate back. Don't be silent. This is what an MMO is all about!! I wish I could help you get some practice in on DF...I am in the same Data Centre as you!!

What I posted up there was long and drawn out but basically I'm saying don't support the people who want you to pay for carries or pay for clears... They are the true elitists and are taking advantage of people's discouragement for a quick buck! Don't give in.... That's just as bad as someone who would buy Gil because it's quick.

Work hard, Titan Ex is not easy but if you clear it after practicing and struggling by yourself, not with someone you paid to carry you, I promise you, it will be a lot more satisfying! ^^

To me elitists people are morons who believe they are amazing and they are better than others and always highlighting the fact as to how many t13 items they\\'ve got or a bit like TELLING you how bad you doing rather than advicing you what you could do to make things better. This morons are usually between 16-20 years old . They don\\'t participate in LS (as I called them the mute ones cause they don\\'t say anything) they usually have a static too without it they will be in the same boat as everyone else. And of course don\\'t forget the PF called : one shot only , no noobs. And I could go on forever. I CANNOT stand people like that . I just simple blacklist and ignore.it makes you wonder why people get like that. Its not like they hold a world record or anything. They are just as ordinary as we are.

We all agree to disagree, this is based on MY very own personal experience and what I\\'ve seen so far in my server. I\\'ve seen people change which is just sad.

OP, I'm glad there are more people like you who aren't afraid to paint themselves as "Elitist" despite so much hate on this forum. There is nothing wrong with networking yourself around players of your level in order to enjoy some of the most challenging and rewarding content that the game has to offer.

The harsh reality is that for players behind the curve for whatever reason (just start the game or have little time to play), they can't expect to get carried or clear mechanical-heavy content without doing their own research. It's hard to make learning party because there will be fewer people in your situation. It's even harder because most veterans eventually get bored of old content and have no reason to revisit without new goals or incentive. You can't really blame them when the game overly promote repeating old and obsolete content (Relic quest) to make up for the lack of content to hold players until the next patch. You have to realize that you are playing the game differently than those that were doing new primals on day 1, jumping in new coil wings on week 1 of each update. You are essentially being forced to play the catch up game whether you like it or not.

Fortunately being left behind can have its advantages. There is a multitude of written/video guides to help you familiarize yourself with the content. There is also plenty of good FC out there that aren't afraid to take on newbies and help them through old content. If you aren't lucky with finding the right people who truly can open their arms for you then don't give up. Keep trying. Make threads on server forums and transfer if you have to. Once you find your dream FC/group to enjoy the game with then you will be set. The worst thing that you can do is give up completely and go on the forum and trash on other players just because they have their own cliques and prefer to play with similar level players.

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Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

I wrote it while Titan was in the air. True story. (I was bored)

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I was eating breakfast and choked with laughter. Lol.

Once again the OP attempts to put words in the mouth of other people.

There are people that use their status in the game to punch down on others. There is no denying that. When you use experience as an excuse to be an asshole, you deserve whatever words get thrown at you.

What being an asshole is varies for a lot of people, but there certainly enough of the behavior out there in pf and df to have an effect in the vocal community.

But if you want to willingly call yourself a term that widens the gap between people and promotes classism, who am I to argue?

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Originally Posted by Cutie_McSnuggles

However not watching a guide is not the sign of a bad/weak player. To some players the challenge of learning a new fight is more fun then beating it.

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100% disagree. The fact that it is an mmo means that you'll be playing with people other than yourself. For a dungeon, going in blind is usually fine, but for 8 man or more content, it is either lazy, spiteful or both. Don't get me wrong: If you want to learn the fight on your on, that's cool. You're probably not the only one who wants to do so. So put up a party finder or post a thread and find kindred souls, and go learn and laugh together. But to impede the progress of 7 other people is extremely selfish and should only fill the perpetrator with shame. I repeat, it is possible to find other people who want to figure things out on their own, but people who want to figure it out on their own, and go with others who are actually trying to make true progress are either lying and looking for a carry, or being nuisances.

Nothing wrong with being an Elitist. Just dont forget that your actions towards other players determined if that's a bad or a good thing. Don't put yourself above other people because you play how you wanna play and others play how they wanna play. That goes for all people.

http://img.pandawhale.com/post-2876-...down-kPR3.jpeg

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Originally Posted by Mature

And of course don\\'t forget the PF called : one shot only , no noobs.

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We don't carry :P If we are farming, we don't want others to presumably leech. There are reasons why persons haven't cleared, and one of the most blatant is the person lacks the ability to clear. By avoiding a sol bonus, the chance of incompetency is reduced dramatically. And there is a bit of skill difference between the persons in ilvl 128 gear who can't push 4 meteors in T9 than the persons who push 1 meteor stream in T9; 3 bennus vs 5; 1 set of adds in Titan vs 2+... our skillbase isn't carbon copies of each other. If it was, we would all have our savage titles by now lol.

OP, I thought you learned your lesson a long time ago with your Titan post. This game is not about you, your clique. You are an overgrown bully and coward, someone who has gotten way, way, WAY to big for her britches. Just because you put in the practice and time and got good at something doesn't give you the right act cocky and arrogant like you have. Once again, you are all about the DF and how its for "experienced only" like you and your clique decided how a resource available to the entire community. Make a party in PF if you want an "experts only" farm party if you want it so badly. Being an elitist and being a noob have their bad points.

Stop coming on the forums to make the same post over and over and over again.

Lol. Looks like you're addressing a douchey mentality, rather than player ability. There's douchebaggery on BOTH sides of that spectrum. There's terrible people that wanna be carried, and there's terrible people that refuse to acknowledge that they once had to learn the instance/ dungeon as well. As a competent player I enjoy helping others through mechanics, which is why I switched to a tank class to begin with. As a competent player I also like learning stuff at my own pace. Main tanked garuda ex for the first time while learning on the fly. Took more than a couplea wipes, but we came out victorious- and nothing beats that feeling! With the possible exception of watching lazy players asking intolerant players to carry them. it's rare when I get both types of douches in my df, but when I do, I get the popcorn. 'Cause THAT'S entertainment ;)

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Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

They're mad that elitists just don't want to help them.

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Wrong. They are sick of elitists that rip on people because they are not perfect at the fight on their first try. You said it yourself, fights are easy if you do them 100 times. I agree with that. What if it's my 5th time? I'm not going to be perfect, but elitists expect me to be perfect.

Ooo starting to get spicy here...

grabs the popcorn

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Originally Posted by Anna_Lannis

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Couldn't agree more, there is a huge difference between being an ass to new players who just won't listen and keep fucking up to the ones who want to improve, trust me i know it gets old real fast.
But i would much rather a new player who messes up, and attempts to learn from their mistakes and who makes jokes and laughs it off, over an elitist douche who wipes once and calls everyone shit tier then leaves, and by proxy causes overs to leave or causes us to have to re-queue for replacements.

You can't expect everyone to be on the same level if you use the duty finder, if you want to be elitist you can only rely on some small clique you form yourself if you want it to meet your standards.
Besides if new players don't play with experienced players how will they ever improve? while it might be a burden for some, if you push away all the new players and tell them to 'git good' chances are you'll push them away from getting better and clearing more end game content if they know all that awaits them are harder mechanics are self righteous assholes who'll jump on them the second they screw up.

I've also seen a lot of people mention the ability of others here likes its some black and white thing of "You lack skill or you have it." which is complete bullshit, this is an mmo you aren't going to be good or skilled in any of the end game content without practice, some will adapt faster for sure but everyone has the ability to succeed there is no such thing as "You lack the skill to complete this." mostly in a game like this where all you're doing is learning the patterns. And just because you did it and someone else is struggling you act all high and mighty with the attitude of "Well i did it, you must be bad if you can't."

And i'm saying this as in give them a few chances to improve, if they keep messing up and refuse to listen to advice or don't ask for any and keep making the same mistakes, then by all means quit, no one will look down on you for it, but give them a few chances first, the worst players are the ones who just leave the second it turns sour because they're afraid they'll lose 10 minutes of their precious time helping someone else. And I'm my experiences over the last few years, we have way to many of the toxic assholes who want everyone to be on their level despite joining the duty finder and will leave and make it harder for everyone else just because it didn't work out how they intended.

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Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

They laugh, they joke, they're having a great time (losing is super fun!)

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I wanted to chime in on this particular point. The point of laughing and joking is not because they don't care, but because they want to keep the atmosphere bright and positive. When the mood gets heavy, people want to quit. When people quit, the run ends, and there is no more opportunity to practice and improve.

I would be very, very surprised if the folks laughing and wiping weren't TRYING to improve themselves, even if you can't see any evidence that they ARE improving. Wiping over and over again is not fun. So, SOME kind of fun needs to be injected into the scenario, or else people will become easily discouraged.

Anyone that's had a static party fall apart on them knows this is true. Most, if not all statics have a period of time where folks laugh and joke while they struggle to learn the new content. When the laughing and joking stops, THAT'S when ugly talk like, "Bob's DPS is too low, should we kick him and get someone else?" and "I'm wasting my time with you scrubs, I'm out!" starts to crop up...

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Originally Posted by Anna_Lannis

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Calls op a bully, proceeds to berate her and tells her not to post on the forums.

The lack of self awareness is funny. You missed the part where you go "we don't take kindly to your types".

This is never gonna stop, is it?

"We don't want to play with you, cuz you suck"
"How are we supposed to learn when you don't carry us?"

The eternal spiral of bitching.

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Originally Posted by Cutie_McSnuggles

To some players the challenge of learning a new fight is more fun then beating it.

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Yet, more often than not in my experiences, the first thing they write in party chat (when they say something) is "I'm new, what do I do?". Showing they do want to read a guide, just they want to in a way that puts the preceddence on the rest of the party during the actual content instead of using a more indepth guide that is freely available and readable at their own pace.

Or when said player, even after guidance keeps dieing the same way to the same mechanic over and over and over because they refuse to take advice? Or they don't even understand the common language of the party whatsoever? I do not mind whatsoever, if I queue for low level roulette and get a new player, helping them and it's good seeing them take advice and visibly improve over the course of the run. People who are making an effort, not just for the party, but for themselves. I have zero tolerance for those who's ego is so fragile that they cannot comprehend that they make mistakes and direct the blame onto everyone else except themselves. Or join DF with zero ability to communicate in the language they selected with zero experience of the content also. Seriously, what do they expect? A faster queue? Probably, but also faster wipes and faster disbands if the content they are queued for is challenging, aka coil. Auto translate is not capable a tool for explaining intracacies of a fight and mechanics. Not to mention auto translate tools are vastly inferior due to grammer and sentance structure, if you don't have an idea of the targetted language then it can (many cases does) translate into something different than what you expected. I can attest to that with speaking 4 languages and seeing.

The forums, the internet are all resources that players can reach out for advice. I use them myself. EG. I was struggling to maintain GL stacks when we started in turn 13, I reached out to the community, got some good advice, adjusted and after practice became able to easily maintain stacks. Get the theory which gives you a basic understanding, then practice that theory hands on.

The length of time the party will last is in direct correlation to the amount of effort the players put into trying to be succesful.

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Originally Posted by Magis

Calls op a bully, proceeds to berate her and tells her not to post on the forums.

The lack of self awareness is funny. You missed the part where you go "we don't take kindly to your types".

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I did not tell her not to post on the forums. I just told her not to make the same point over and over again in a another thread she just made not a week ago.

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Originally Posted by gorezilla1

100% disagree. The fact that it is an mmo means that you'll be playing with people other than yourself. For a dungeon, going in blind is usually fine, but for 8 man or more content, it is either lazy, spiteful or both. Don't get me wrong: If you want to learn the fight on your on, that's cool. You're probably not the only one who wants to do so. So put up a party finder or post a thread and find kindred souls, and go learn and laugh together. But to impede the progress of 7 other people is extremely selfish and should only fill the perpetrator with shame.

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Seriuosly? Believe it or not there aren't guides to everything and let's not forget that up until steps came out the only thing a person really needed 95% of the time is stay out of bad and kill adds.

Some people take LFG way to Seriuosly. Pugs are pugs and stupid stuff is gonna happen.

Here's the issue with reading or watching guides; it doesn't mean you'll do everything right. I ALWAYS watch guides for a new fight I've never done before because, as a healer, I think it's important that I know what's coming. BUT I've still died to mechanics in new fights because is very different to actually be there rather than just viewing a guide. So don't assume that people who are dying are lazy, unknowledable people looking for a carry.

Its hard to even fill a T13 clear party and worse is you need at lest 2/3 specific roles a monk for dragon kick a warrior for storm path and some one to virus the boss. With out at lest 2 of these 3 you going to get hit hard real hard. One time I already had to forgo a war for a 2nd paladin just so we could fill so people wouldn't leave then a ninja asked in tell do you really need a monk I said ugh yes he said no you don't. If you going to join a clear you at lest are experienced enough to know you need a certain party build.

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Originally Posted by Anna_Lannis

snip.

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Seams a little harsh maybe this post is different from the one you say was a week ago? People change their views all the time.

And if some one is really at a certain exp in a fight then they have every right to exclude people who aren't didn't make them mean or a elitist ( dont even think this is the right word to this) they just want it done with.

I'm willing to help other people once I get the thing im trying to get done but I shouldn't always have to start up the learning process all over again once I get the full understanding up to a certain point.