Cowards Abound

You silly-nilly. I meant Terror. :P

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Wait, story mode Ramuh has a charm status? o.o Since when?

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Hes referring to the fear.

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Originally Posted by Raiya

And thus the Steps of Ragequit cometh,
and many a player fell before this challenge,
Alas a victor was not to be,
The mechanics of RNGesus defeat ye,
And thus Tis easier to ragequit like thee,
As the 30min penalty was easiest for me!








:D

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The Skald is strong with this one.

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Originally Posted by Heskett

You silly-nilly. I meant Terror. :P

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Ah, when I think Charm, I think of the debuff that Siren gives. But regardless, in all the times I fought Ramuh HM, I never had people fail at zapping the terrorized players. *shrug*

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Originally Posted by Elim

I understand why people don't want to do it. There should be a card drop, or loot drop. Something to keep people there because it is a long trial. I don't understand why there isn't something already, to be honest. But I'm not going to lie, when I go into SoF to help a newbie guild member, it's sure annoying when people leave. It's not like we need them though - we've pulled without a full group and still cleared.

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Here's the thing...Ya prize is access to Heavensward xD!
People need to get it together are they're stuck is Vishap Limbo forever.
I can't wait to see the plenty of tears of people who've yet to finish it by then.
Said it once, will say it again: People get tired if it ain't a DPS race to the finish.
Oh well, I'll be enjoying HW stuff because I know how to read and talk to people!

I want to see the statistics people who complete SoF....
It will bring the shame on family name again?
Does it require nerf?
Let's see the rank....

Cowardice or smart? If I get queued into SoF, and there is any Sol Bonus, I'm gone. Instantly. Cowardice? No; I do not feel like wasting time that would equal the penalty lockout. I'd rather craft, level an alt, or something else than to suffer others ignorance.

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Originally Posted by Skeith-Adeline

Cowardice or smart? If I get queued into SoF, and there is any Sol Bonus, I'm gone. Instantly. Cowardice? No; I do not feel like wasting time that would equal the penalty lockout. I'd rather craft, level an alt, or something else than to suffer others ignorance.

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I didn't think there was a newbie bonus in SoF yet, since it's still new content.

I did queue up for trials the other day with in progress checked from doing my weekly CT runs. It popped with an in progress run, and I realized was probably a fail SoF run. I withdrew, rather than wasting 5-30 minutes of my life.

Relevant...

http://www.darklegacycomics.com/comi...1664bVSGen.jpg

Right Click + Show Image for larger scale

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Originally Posted by nuyu11

I want to see the statistics people who complete SoF....
It will bring the shame on family name again?
Does it require nerf?
Let's see the rank....

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personally ive completed it about 10 times nows helping fc members/friend etc who are struggling it really isnt a hard battle.. 1 of the few thing that actually require communication and teamwork other then that its pretty simple.. hell id even go through all the EX primal battles just to unlock an EX steps of faith lol

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

I didn't think there was a newbie bonus in SoF yet, since it's still new content.

I did queue up for trials the other day with in progress checked from doing my weekly CT runs. It popped with an in progress run, and I realized was probably a fail SoF run. I withdrew, rather than wasting 5-30 minutes of my life.

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Err, mixed signals (just finished horrible T12 DF prior lol).

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Originally Posted by Elazu

"Difficult trial"? Really now?

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Im agreeing with her on this one.

Seriously i had problems clearing this on a simple DF. What sucks is PF is no better cause who would join that cept your FC mates if THEY are even willing.

I got into one DF group and we planned it out before even starting. Took us one try even with people who didn't understand how it worked.

SIMPLE

Guys don't turn this into Titan EX.

I came in here thinking op was typing about PvP. Or how tanks are scared to take command sometimes. But nope typing that you are a coward for choosing to leave a run.

Man this guy must be really tough to suffer through all that of his OWN choice. Maybe male au ra should be modelled after him.

Gamer Mentality: If we can't clear it in one try there's something wrong with the game and/or the people I'm playing with.

True, there are the times when other people sink the progress. But most of those times it's because said person/s might not understand the mechanics and need practice. People do learn new stuff throu practice, and some have had more practice than others.
When I cleared SoF we wiped 1 or 2 times (with the clearing party that is), but after each wipe we took a few minutes to talk about the strategy and who would do what etc etc. Failing is the best way to learn something new.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

Gamer Mentality: If we can't clear it in one try there's something wrong with the game and/or the people I'm playing with.

True, there are the times when other people sink the progress. But most of those times it's because said person/s might not understand the mechanics and need practice. People do learn new stuff throu practice, and some have had more practice than others.

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Oh but as you read on in this thread.

People have lives. and so with said lives they try to say that they are being efficent with their time by NOT dealing with it.

Pathetic. and you wonder why Japan beats us on Coils. They've established a thing called camaraderie. Not that we here in america can barely understand.
Just today i took time out of my gaming when i could of been lvling up my Tank to help a DPS class make sure he adapted to the game well.

I don't mind helping people understand things when they're willing to listen and/or put in some effort.

In my experience though, people who are willing to are few and far between. So I can't blame people who leave after things get annoying one bit, especially if they experience this as well.

I haven't made it to SoF yet, but if it's as common in there as it is elsewhere for people to not listen and do their own thing, I'm not surprised or appalled that people leave immediately even. If they leave because they have a personal fear of the difficulty vs their own skill, and not because people don't listen or do their jobs frequently in SoF, then they are cowards though.

But yeah, if SoF is hard and frequently a headache because a lot of people don't do their jobs or listen to advice about mechanics and such, then I don't blame people for leaving.

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Originally Posted by AceHunterIce

Oh but as you read on in this thread.

People have lives. and so with said lives they try to say that they are being efficent with their time by NOT dealing with it.

Pathetic. and you wonder why Japan beats us on Coils. They've established a thing called camaraderie. Not that we here in america can barely understand.
Just today i took time out of my gaming when i could of been lvling up my Tank to help a DPS class make sure he adapted to the game well.

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Wait wait im not the best at English but it seemed Like you just said it's pathetic people are being efficient with their time?

So you helped someone? You choose to use your time to help? And that's showing you in a different light then others how? You choose they choose.
I'm sorry what?

Steps of Faith should probably be removed from "Duty Roulette: Trials" and instead be added to "Duty Roulette: Main Scenario" so that it inst affecting people who are farming HM primals for quick lights for their nexus/mahatma stages. I think this is the real issue here.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

Relevant...

http://www.darklegacycomics.com/comi...1664bVSGen.jpg

Right Click + Show Image for larger scale

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Stahp! You're making me miss WoW! And FF XIV is my NEW addiction now!

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Originally Posted by Vespar

Steps of Faith should probably be removed from "Duty Roulette: Trials" and instead be added to "Duty Roulette: Main Scenario" so that it inst affecting people who are farming HM primals for quick lights for their nexus/mahatma stages. I think this is the real issue here.

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What I know, people who farm HM Primals for Light tend to do specific search instead of roulette. but that might've been on my server.

I will stay if I get Steps of Faith for at least 2-3 attempts if I happen to get it in Trial Roulette.

I am even willing to volunteer for special mechanics if people won't speak up to do them, but so far all of my wins have happened when I was healing the raid under the dragon. I do think that two of the main reasons that many people will "run away" from this trial are because of the coordination required and the amount of time it takes, win and lose. Now, I make my best effort to never run anything unless I feel that I can set aside adequate time to either finish it or time out of it. If I get something, I commit to it unless members of the party are being absolutely despicable and disrespectful. But I understand that not everyone wants to deal with the possibility of players who won't communicate and/or refuse to volunteer for cannons or dragonkiller. There is also the possibility that the group's damage may not be high enough to clear the fight, even with mechanics used, which can lead to a loss of hope in an otherwise sound group. The low damage is probably well below SE's expectations and suggests a lack of focus on the cannons and boss or faulty rotations, but it's a natural consequence when playing with strangers. Making a partial or full premade with friendly people is a nice way to clear this trial if too many people keep fleeing in the DF. I did it blind on the second try with random people, but I was part of premades when helping a few friends and FC members clear and that seemed to help with the communication and damage problems.

It isn't common for me when I log on these days, but the only time I would actively avoid trial roulette would be if I didn't have enough time to get stuck in steps for thirty minutes. Since I feel apathetic about roulettes lately and only do them when I feel like it anyway, I will generally give steps a shot when it does show up in my trials. I do tend to feel a little powerless when I see Vishap staring me down. Even though I make my best effort to help, I can't help but feel sad when the dragon continues to make it to the final gate with over 30% of its HP. I don't feel very helpful in those situations, even though I have had groups thank the people who have already cleared for sticking it out for a while.

I don't know. I can only see this becoming a bigger problem in the future unless more of the people in the trial roulette adopt a helpful attitude. But at the same time, it really is their right to play as they please and not have their time wasted by a roulette that would normally only take 5-10 minutes at max.

I don't know how I should feel about this.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

What I know, people who farm HM Primals for Light tend to do specific search instead of roulette. but that might've been on my server.

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No, even without Steps there's too much garbage in the trials pool to make it worthwhile for light farming. People will queue specific for whatever's on bonus window, or just whatever they can disengage their brains from and farm the quickest.

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Originally Posted by LTEvil

Wait wait im not the best at English but it seemed Like you just said it's pathetic people are being efficient with their time?

So you helped someone? You choose to use your time to help? And that's showing you in a different light then others how? You choose they choose.
I'm sorry what?

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Let me give you an example. Your sitting here on a DF and you need to do this for you ton continue to heaves ward but your whole group leaves before you even start the trail.

Are you serious. That's not fair to the people trying to get to heavensward. There are people today just getting around the idea of getting a relm reborn.

Why do we feel the need to think just about ourselves.

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Originally Posted by AceHunterIce

Snippers

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Two simple answers:

1. It's my personal time that i waste playing, and i choose to not spend it with people who don't even take the effort to prepare properly.
2. I read up mechanics and tactics before i join - except if it is week 1 content. And I'll try to complete the task given to me to the best of my skill and knowledge. If others are not willing to do the same, i do not see a reason why i should bother with them and waste a chunk of the time that i actually get to spend in game. And no, i will not teach/explain you 6+ different mechanics - do that yourself, google is your friend.

If this comes as elitist/rude/cowardish, so be it. While playing MMORPGs for 16 years i explained enough and had my time wasted plenty.

I'll happily take Steps of Faith over Ramuh EX. Everyone has their trial that they would rather not do.

Would be nice if it dropped something, being the final trial in ARR. But I'm sure the Vishap card will arrive in time.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

I'll happily take Steps of Faith over Ramuh EX. Everyone has their trial that they would rather not do.

Would be nice if it dropped something, being the final trial in ARR. But I'm sure the Vishap card will arrive in time.

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No no no no no no please no

So far I've noticed that even if people do the bare minimum with the cannons (even miss one or two of the dragon killers or w/e) if the group has two competent melee you can still faceroll the fight fairly nicely. I don't usually do the roulette anymore but one time I queue'd on a whim, people were using the cannons to kill the adds and were kinda fumbling on the stuns/snares but myself and the other melee stayed on the boss and we managed to just burn him down and kill him in a oneshot right before he made it to the end XD.

Last time I wad in it ( I already have it completed by the way) I explained to people what to do where to go kept telling a dpd to help kill adds instead of the big dragon I was tanking and its hard enough to kite the adds to the cannons with out dps stealing hate.

Short story an hour wasted but will still run it if I get it cause ya some still need it.

I'll jest be more of a jerk when I'm giving out instructions.

It is times like this where the cultural differences really stand out.

Japanese gamer 1: I need something from this content.
Japanese gamer 2: Really? So do I. Let's team up and both get what we want.
Japanese gamer 1: Good idea. So how should we do this?

But here...

American gamer 1: I need something from this content.
American gamer 2: Really? So do I. But this isn't going to work because everyone else is stupid and not as good as I am.
American gamer 3. Yeah, it's a waste of time. I quit.
American gamer 4: Well this won't work. This is bad programming. It must be the developers fault that I didn't get what I wanted from this content.
American gamer 5: I'm going to write a formal complaint about it!
American gamer 6: So am I!
American gamer 7: If this just had some kind of reward rather than progression I could bother wasting my time to help other people.
American gamer 1: Well, if one of you quits first, I'll quit too.
American gamer 8: Umm... but I still need this to progress. Can you help please?
American gamer 1-7: No. This is a waste of MY time. I quit.
American gamer 8: *sigh* Back to Duty Finder again.

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Originally Posted by Kumabear76

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But... I'm Canadian.

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Originally Posted by Dererk

dpd to help kill adds instead of the big dragon

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Uh. The best way to do it, as far as I can recall, is having as much DPS on the boss as possible and just let the cannons worry about killing the adds. A tank pulls the adds under the boss so that the cannons can do damage to everything at once.

The fact that "eating the penalty" is a commonly accepted option just reinforces my opinion that the 30 minute penalty is too lenient. As I've said before, the penalty for early withdrawl should match the remaining time on the instance, no exceptions. Additionally, this penalty should be applied if the group chooses to kick you to prevent folks from getting a "free out" by force-D/C or harrassing the group. While this would be abusable, it's better than having a penalty system that has no teeth at all. If you feel like you've been unfairly booted, report the booters.

Draconian? Yes. But it's pretty obvious that the kid gloves we've been handled with so far just aren't cutting it. If eating the penalty is the better alternative, then the penalty isn't doing its job. If this drives some folks to avoid Roulette entirely, then so be it; the folks who remain will be a better grade of player anyway.

Well if enough people are unable to get it done due to selfish players, maybe Yoshida will change the fight some, who knows. Steps of Faith is essentially determining how many sales Heavensward will generate. If a lot of players can't complete it, there is no point in buying the expansion.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

Uh. The best way to do it, as far as I can recall, is having as much DPS on the boss as possible and just let the cannons worry about killing the adds. A tank pulls the adds under the boss so that the cannons can do damage to everything at once.

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This is correct, ideally the adds should be so dealt with that the NPCs helpers get to wail on the boss as well. Best I've gotten was a few seconds after the music changes. I'm certain people can push the clear even further back.

I tend to throw in a swing or two if I see one of the big adds at low HP and we're not at the gate.

/em rests on the cane ....sits down boys , cough ...on my old days....we wiped and none rage quited or called others bad (lie but was rare) , or blame it on lag....we learned , rezzed and tried to overcome the encounter and yeah im talking about PUGS before all that cross-server thing even existed...

today is all about ME , fast , now!!! , ME again , everyone is a special snowflake ,and every deserves to win.

Failing / losing teach u more than winning :P

and yes i quited some dungeons/trials before ,but those were hopeless runs , because ppl lack skill/interest to learn / missing 2 tanks 1 healer and 10 min passed.

but ppl ragequit even before duty start.

and SE isnt stupid , they put this on Trial roulette for a reason :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

The fact that "eating the penalty" is a commonly accepted option just reinforces my opinion that the 30 minute penalty is too lenient. As I've said before, the penalty for early withdrawl should match the remaining time on the instance, no exceptions. Additionally, this penalty should be applied if the group chooses to kick you to prevent folks from getting a "free out" by force-D/C or harrassing the group. While this would be abusable, it's better than having a penalty system that has no teeth at all. If you feel like you've been unfairly booted, report the booters.

Draconian? Yes. But it's pretty obvious that the kid gloves we've been handled with so far just arnt cutting it.

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http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...59/475/a4d.gif

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

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I'd be more supporting of this idea of people getting kicked getting a penalty if SE actually enforced vote kick abuse being punishable.

They do not however, as stated by GMs (more than happy to show proof if needed). It's a bad idea to give players such a huge amount of power over other players' gameplay anyways.

Best to just give the extra penalty to people who leave early if anyone, not people who are kicked, lest we see innocent players being abused and slapped with a penalty, insult to injury. That is unacceptable.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

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So are you going to give a penalty to people who will stop using the roulette altogether? Because I'll be honest, if SE pulled something like this? I'd not use the roulette anymore.

Punishing people isn't the best way to get them to do content. People like you who want to hold a gun to their head only make them more defiant. The best way would be to incentivize good play.

A new player bonus / increased reward for SoF is a good start. Giving a way to reset on wipe will help. Adding some kind of reward (loot) for clearing will also help.

But to try and change the penalty system to something so easily abused? No thanks.

I have a good idea. Why not offer a spectators mode or something of the like. Get vet players to join in-progress duty and assist a party that is having difficulty with a duty. They can point out issues with thefight by simply just watching. If they finish successfully you get a reward as well for assisting them.

Just an idea I'm throwing out

I got rolled into this in Trials because I'd accidentally kept "in progress" checked. They had 31 minutes on the clock, so I figured I'd stick around. Might as well right? I'd eat the same time in penalty anyway.

We actually got it dead on the 2nd try with about 10 minutes to spare. The group listened. The canoneers were good. The tower guy learned from his mistake (he went before snares on the first try.) We DPS'd the snot out of the dragon.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Somebody tell me again... how is this so hard