General Game Performance - Anyone Else Feel The Way I Do?

$199.99 - evga intel x58 micro atx board
$39.99 - microatx case
$294.99 - intel i7 950 3.06ghz quad core
$81.99 - 6gb gskill ram
$79.99 - ocz 700w psu
$100 - evga GTX280

That's what i built last december for ffxiv when my old q6600/4gb/8800gts 320mb was strugglign to play @ 1920x1200.

I run windows 7 x64. I have a 300gb 7200rpm hdd from 5 years ago. I get 40fps in uldah and 60fps everywhere else. I have everything set to average/high, and I run 1920x1200 windowed only. I spent $800 on my system, and I could have skimped a lot of places and saved $200+ and still had the same system essentially.

If your system can't handle it, $600 will get you one that can play it beautifully. Also, I'm driving 3 28" lcd's, have a hundred chrome and ff tabs open, 2-3 rdp sessions, a movie playing, and a pile of other crap going when I play, and my system is barely batting an eye. It's been 8 months since I bought my box, you can get the same thing for a lot less now I'm sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nasomi

$199.99 - evga intel x58 micro atx board
$39.99 - microatx case
$294.99 - intel i7 950 3.06ghz quad core
$81.99 - 6gb gskill ram
$79.99 - ocz 700w psu
$100 - evga GTX280

That's what i built last december for ffxiv when my old q6600/4gb/8800gts 320mb was strugglign to play @ 1920x1200.

I run windows 7 x64. I have a 300gb 7200rpm hdd from 5 years ago. I get 40fps in uldah and 60fps everywhere else. I have everything set to average/high, and I run 1920x1200 windowed only. I spent $800 on my system, and I could have skimped a lot of places and saved $200+ and still had the same system essentially.

If your system can't handle it, $600 will get you one that can play it beautifully. Also, I'm driving 3 28" lcd's, have a hundred chrome and ff tabs open, 2-3 rdp sessions, a movie playing, and a pile of other crap going when I play, and my system is barely batting an eye. It's been 8 months since I bought my box, you can get the same thing for a lot less now I'm sure.

---

Exactly my point.. High End CPU, Mid-high end GPU... good amount of RAM....
regular old HDD....
I'm telling you... the HDD is not the bottle neck for most systems like the industry would have you believe
And honestly.. if someone got an SSD... I'd say you'd benefit more putting just your OS on it and leaving everything else on an HDD

ffxiv does not work like other games that just load everything into the ram. The loading is mostly done at runtime(and when it's doing that the game just stops). So saying the HDD is not a bottle neck is simply a lie. We had many of posts from people with highend systems that upgraded to a faster HDD to get rid of the stuttering in town. And putting the OS on the faster HDD is pretty obvious.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coldfire

ffxiv does not work like other games that just load everything into the ram. The loading is mostly done at runtime(and when it's doing that the game just stops). So saying the HDD is not a bottle neck is simply a lie. We had many of posts from people with highend systems that upgraded to a faster HDD to get rid of the stuttering in town. And putting the OS on the faster HDD is pretty obvious.

---

You can get that improvement with any modern high performance HDD... not just SSD

The SSD was the example for a modern HDD. It seems you really didn't understand what we were talking about. I'll try to sum it up:
1. the game loads character data in sync which causes the game to stop for that moment
2. there's many small files for each character that needs to be loaded
3. a fast SSD fixes this issue
4. an async method would fix this too and SE should implement that
Nobody ever said you need an SSD to play this game with full fps. That is one aspect. There is also other things that make the game feel sluggish:
- the delay for actions
- the high polygon count
- etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coldfire

Nobody ever said you need an SSD to play this game with full fps. That is one aspect. There is also other things that make the game feel sluggish:
- the delay for actions
- the high polygon count
- etc.

---

And those things dwarf character data loading....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coldfire

It seems you really didn't understand what we were talking about.

---

I do... I just think you overestimate the importance of an SSD

My ffxiv folder is on a 300gb hdd, yes, but it's sitting on my desk with a sata > usb adapter. No enclosure, just sitting there, and it's loud. So I can hear every time it spins up and does stuff, and trust me, it isn't all that often, mainly when I just arrive somewhere via teleport, or when I zone. It'll spin and crackle and do a little dance and it's very noticable, but it's not that frequent. I honestly don't see an SSD giving a noticable performance gain. I think most lag people notice is from bottlenecks on SE's server's and network bandwidth. When I walk up to a place and stuff loads it's not the hdd, it's the network and SE's systems sending me data.

You sure you listened to your HDD properly? <.<
'Cause there's quite a mass of people on these forums telling otherwise. It seems you people still fail to understand our discussion. We are NOT TALKING ABOUT AVERAGE PERFORMANCE. Sorry for the caps but otherwise you won't read it(seriously). We were talking about exactly those moments when the game loads new characters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coldfire

You sure you listened to your HDD properly? <.<
'Cause there's quite a mass of people on these forums telling otherwise. It seems you people still fail to understand our discussion. We are NOT TALKING ABOUT AVERAGE PERFORMANCE. Sorry for the caps but otherwise you won't read it(seriously). We were talking about exactly those moments when the game loads new characters.

---

I know what you're talking about... I've seen people walk in Ul'dah and even though the frame rate is still high, the game chugs along.... I'm just saying... GPU and bandwidth/ping can attribute to that as well

Just try to run from the aetheryte to the weaver guild in Ul'dah and you will know what we are talking about.

1) A MMO should not require the consumer to close all applications during gameplay as FFXIV does. FFXIV's client is still not compliant with today's standards of computer operations (it does not play friendly with other system resources). Not only is the client selfish it is also lacking focus which prevents alt tabbing and various other common MMO client features found within games which are nearly a decade older than FFXIV.

2) The latency issues go hand in hand with the graphical issues. It is commonly known that FFXIV has a horrid client to server delay which effects every aspect of the game. It is most commonly witnessed in the Rank 45 Dungeon Instanced Raids (Into the Dark) where within party members are frequently disconnected from the server nearly every other Raid attempt.

There are several threads explaining these issues in far greater detail than I ever could. Simply put, anything you do in FFXIV is going to require tedious amounts of patience not only combating the games client failures or lack of non-repetitive content but also the clients responsiveness to the server as well. Me and my friends are sick and tired of getting D/Cd while doing common tasks like Behest/Crafting/Leves/Zoning/**Raids**

Yet another example of core mechanics within FFXIV being severely detrimental to the games overal functionality and in turn enjoyment factor.

Hey guys, I am using a low-mid end VGA,CPU and also a limited HDD, it runs fine on low-med setting,I can bear the lag. but usually after 1,5 half hours, there is a period which my game stuttering/lag heavily for minutes. what should I check 1st?

So i have a question, and this thread seemed to be the best place to post, i dont have a big problem running this game, my fans seem to to kick on high when i do ,so here is my specs, do they seem ok?
...and i was wondering, could i update my i5 to a i7 second gen?



-=-=-=-=-=-=- System Information -=-=-=-=-=-=-

Operating System Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium Edition Service Pack 1 64bit (build 7601)
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU 760 @ 2.80GHz
Number of Processors Logical Core Count 4 Physical Core Count 4
BIOS Default System BIOS
Language English (Regional Setting: English)
Physical Memory 4055.117MB
Virtual Memory 2047.875MB
Page File 8108.430MB
Storage C:\ Hard Disk Drive Total Disk Space 931.413GB Free Disk Space 737.158GB
Storage Q:\ Hard Disk Drive Total Disk Space 931.413GB Free Disk Space 737.158GB
DirectX Version DirectX 11
Graphic Device(s) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460
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Thanks for your help

when you are on tight budget like me what will you upgrade 1st?
- CPU: C2D E4500
-VGa: ATI 5670
-HDD: 250GB 7200RPM
-RAM: 2 x 1GB RAM

thanks

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rydin

Not always the case.... I've run the game on the same exact system... other than changing hard drives... and I can tell you... SSD isn't the miracle cure....

With something as multifaceted as an MMORPG... there are tons of places along the way that could serve as a bottleneck....

On a core 2 duo with an 8800gtx... You could have the fastest OCZ PCIe SLC SSD on the market and not run the game properly....
BUT...
If you had an I7 990x and a Radeon HD 6970 and a regular 7200rpm HDD... you'd run the game more than adequately on very high settings....

What does that tell us?
Storage medium is the least of your worries....
Even the networking adapter, ISP and bandwidth make more of a difference than HDD

How can you just diagnose that he needs an SSD without asking what type of Internet connection he is using...
Is it wireless?
Do you share internet with others?
Is someone that you share internet with downloading a lot?
Are YOU downloading a lot?
Is there ANYTHING on your computer, running in the background that may be connecting to the internet, or heavily taxing your hard drive?
What kind of hard drive do you have now?
Do you know the RPM and cache size of it?
Is it more than half full?

I can guarantee you, that:
1. A Western Digital caviar black SATAIII 7200RPM 64MB cache
2. A western Digital Velociraptor SATAIII 10000RPM 32MB cache
and 3. OCZ Vertex 3 SATAIII MLC

You wont notice a performance increase with any of these (Provided the HDD's aren't full)

Now if you have an old 5400rpm 8mb cache drive from 2002... or an eco friendly green drive (FV#K THE PLANET).... then go to an SSD... then yea.. it will look like the SSD works miracles... but going from that old drive to a modern high performance HDD will also solve the problem

Seriously... you can run the game with high end everything else, but a mid range HDD and get no problems at all.... no stuttering... no performance decrease...
and if you are using an old outdated HDD... you're better off getting a TB or higher Caviar Black drive and spending a lot less for a lot more HDD space

---

Its quite simple, he is talking about loading lag, which is the long times it takes to load things like initialy starting the game and character models, which are stored on the client's PC, when the game starts it has to load the huge zones from the HDD, and even the character models it just gets the information for the PC to build the models for example if there is a hyur midlander male with face 2, large body size, a scar on the left eye, brown hair 1 etc etc, this is what the client recives from the server, then the client builds all character models onscreen using that information.

Because of this loading from even a 7200RPM HDD takes time because of the physical limitations of a HDD which when the cost of SSDs come down HDD will be obsolete, yes the client could do with optimising which I will not deny, but loading lag is either HDD read speed, CPU clock speed because or graphics card rendering speed.

Most of what you mentioned are networking problems, but if you look at the network indicator ingame, you will notice not much bandwidth is used by the game, take a character model that usually only takes about 5Mb to download because its the client that draws them.

Btw, if a HDD is almost full the loading lag isnt affected that much, the main problem there could be from a full HDD is fragmented data, because the CPU knows where information related to programs should be even with a full HDD, the CPU knows where all FFXIV data should be when you open the patcher, because the programs are connected.

You are just somone that thinks they know everything, people have taken my advice on a SSD before now and have seen large loading lag reductions, believe me when I have the money I will be getting a SSD when I have the money, even if it is just a small one to put windows and FFXIV on, which is all you need.

My profession makes me need to know how to diagnose problems based on little information, and because the op posted about loading lag, and said they have a decent PC, it is the most logical fix to invest in a SSD because the game has to load so much information from the HDD on the fly, if the op has a SSD I would then suggest a CPU upgrade because of the need for multitasking to play this game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rydin

Exactly my point.. High End CPU, Mid-high end GPU... good amount of RAM....
regular old HDD....
I'm telling you... the HDD is not the bottle neck for most systems like the industry would have you believe
And honestly.. if someone got an SSD... I'd say you'd benefit more putting just your OS on it and leaving everything else on an HDD

---

Also here you mention 6GB as a good amount of RAM which is true but unless you run graphics design software of virtual machines, or other RAM intensive software you dont need it, RAM only slows a system down if you are topping it out by running multiple programs at once for example I have 8GB of RAM in the laptop I play FFXIV on when the system is running just firefox skype and background programs I am using 1.62GB of it therefore I will not notice a slowdown just running FFXIV on top of those, however with 2GB of RAM I would notice a slowdown because the system would be page filing so my system does not crash.

The only way I top out my RAM is when I am running 5-6 virtual machines which I do.

If you want to see the problem page filing has, top out your RAM, and you will notice the symptoms of topped out RAM, 3GB+ RAM you will not notice a slowdown, and it will definatly not increase loading times, and if you have any less than 3GB RAM you should really upgrade.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aion

Hey guys, I am using a low-mid end VGA,CPU and also a limited HDD, it runs fine on low-med setting,I can bear the lag. but usually after 1,5 half hours, there is a period which my game stuttering/lag heavily for minutes. what should I check 1st?

---

Check the graphics card first, then the CPU use atleast an i5 or ATI equivelant CPU ad atleast a 750MB graphoics card

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CK11

So i have a question, and this thread seemed to be the best place to post, i dont have a big problem running this game, my fans seem to to kick on high when i do ,so here is my specs, do they seem ok?
...and i was wondering, could i update my i5 to a i7 second gen?



-=-=-=-=-=-=- System Information -=-=-=-=-=-=-

Operating System Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium Edition Service Pack 1 64bit (build 7601)
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU 760 @ 2.80GHz
Number of Processors Logical Core Count 4 Physical Core Count 4
BIOS Default System BIOS
Language English (Regional Setting: English)
Physical Memory 4055.117MB
Virtual Memory 2047.875MB
Page File 8108.430MB
Storage C:\ Hard Disk Drive Total Disk Space 931.413GB Free Disk Space 737.158GB
Storage Q:\ Hard Disk Drive Total Disk Space 931.413GB Free Disk Space 737.158GB
DirectX Version DirectX 11
Graphic Device(s) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460
+Device \\.\DISPLAY1
+Chip GeForce GTX 460
+Maker NVIDIA
+Video Memory 993.438 MB
+Shared Video Memory 1771.559 MB
+DAC Type Integrated RAMDAC
+Display Mode 1920 x 1080 (32 bit) (60Hz)
+Driver nvd3dumx.dll,nvwgf2umx.dll,nvwgf2umx.dll,nvd3dum,nvwgf2um,nvwgf2um
+Driver Version 8.17.0012.8026
+Driver Date 8/3/2011 5:50:00 AM
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Sound Device(s) SHARP HDMI-1 (NVIDIA High Definition Audio)
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+Driver Language English
+Driver Date 5/25/2011 12:09:17 AM
Sound Device(s) Realtek Digital Output (Realtek High Definition Audio)
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Input Device(s) {6F1D2B60-D5A0-11CF-BFC7444553540000}
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Input Device(s) {6F1D2B61-D5A0-11CF-BFC7444553540000}
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Input Device(s) {C6D52F80-F4F1-11DF-8005444553540000}
+Name 2.4G RF Keyboard & Mouse
+Notes Axis 0 Button 0 Field of View 0
Input Device(s) {77D16100-C43B-11E0-8001444553540000}
+Name FF-GP1
+Notes Axis 4 Button 12 Field of View 1



Thanks for your help

---

I would look at your graphics card first a 460 isnt ideal for FFXIV because it is quite dated now, then move to the CPU your CPU while not ideal should run decent, but the 460 looks like the real bottle neck in your system.

Sorry for not editing the bulk of the quote, im in a hurry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aion

when you are on tight budget like me what will you upgrade 1st?
- CPU: C2D E4500
-VGa: ATI 5670
-HDD: 250GB 7200RPM
-RAM: 2 x 1GB RAM

thanks

---

Your whole system seems underpowered, I would start on atleast 2x 2GB RAM chips which you can get cheap, then move to the CPU, C2D is quite old, but this can cost alot of money, finally move to the graphics card, if you have the 1GB model it should not need an upgrade, but if you are using the 512MB model then it will need upgrading for the best performance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CK11

So i have a question, and this thread seemed to be the best place to post, i dont have a big problem running this game, my fans seem to to kick on high when i do ,so here is my specs, do they seem ok?
...and i was wondering, could i update my i5 to a i7 second gen?

---

You wouldn't see too much of a difference between the 760 and anything else
Even the "monster" 2600k, although it benchmarks well, will show very little to no improvement in game.....
Honestly... your graphics card is the only part of your rig that is considered mid range....
the 460 is I believe the recommended minimum GPU according to square enix... at least you have the one with more VRAM though....
You could pick up a used Radeon 5870 and increase your performance quite a bit... and by that I mean play with all settings maxed (No AO and GDQ 8)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aion

when you are on tight budget like me what will you upgrade 1st?
- CPU: C2D E4500
-VGa: ATI 5670
-HDD: 250GB 7200RPM
-RAM: 2 x 1GB RAM

thanks

---

well consider your CPU and RAM linked....
because if you upgrade CPU, you'll have to get a new Motherboard and RAM....
which isn't bad... but it would cost more than upgrading your video card... both of which would give you a big performance boost
They are actually at about the same level of needing to be updated...
So if you have the cash.... upgrade the motherboard, CPU and RAM...
If you're limited on funds... just pop in a new video card and save up for the big upgrade... let the hard drive be the last thing you upgrade....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delsus

Most of what you mentioned are networking problems, but if you look at the network indicator ingame, you will notice not much bandwidth is used by the game, take a character model that usually only takes about 5Mb to download because its the client that draws them.

---

yes... but if you're sharing internet on say a 10mbit connection...
and Another computer is using a bit torrent client... the download could be using 100% of the bandwidth
Also bad ping is bad ping... and if you've got like a 1 second ping to the servers.... you can kiss any type of lag free gameplay goodbye

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delsus

Btw, if a HDD is almost full the loading lag isnt affected that much, the main problem there could be from a full HDD is fragmented data, because the CPU knows where information related to programs should be even with a full HDD, the CPU knows where all FFXIV data should be when you open the patcher, because the programs are connected.

---

absolutely not true.... the innermost sectors of an HDD have as little as half the data rate of the outer sectors.. which get written to first....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delsus

You are just somone that thinks they know everything, people have taken my advice on a SSD before now and have seen large loading lag reductions, believe me when I have the money I will be getting a SSD when I have the money, even if it is just a small one to put windows and FFXIV on, which is all you need.

---

Yes... when you start the game... it will load faster with an SSD... I'm not denying that....
but faster initial load =/= better performance....
I guess it can be viewed as a performance increase.... in a manner of speaking....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delsus

My profession makes me need to know how to diagnose problems based on little information, and because the op posted about loading lag, and said they have a decent PC, it is the most logical fix to invest in a SSD because the game has to load so much information from the HDD on the fly, if the op has a SSD I would then suggest a CPU upgrade because of the need for multitasking to play this game.

---

In my profession... I create music... and I've professionally made a few Virtual instruments and sample libraries... in which case, bit rates, data rates and hard drive speeds are paramount in what I do
I disagree with this.... if you have a very old HDD... you can get a modern caviar black AND a CPU for the price of a usable SSD... making it the better upgrade path....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delsus

Also here you mention 6GB as a good amount of RAM which is true but unless you run graphics design software of virtual machines, or other RAM intensive software you dont need it, RAM only slows a system down if you are topping it out by running multiple programs at once for example I have 8GB of RAM in the laptop I play FFXIV on when the system is running just firefox skype and background programs I am using 1.62GB of it therefore I will not notice a slowdown just running FFXIV on top of those, however with 2GB of RAM I would notice a slowdown because the system would be page filing so my system does not crash.

---

This is actually true... go figure

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delsus

The only way I top out my RAM is when I am running 5-6 virtual machines which I do.

---

I can use all 16GB of my machine with one song playing... and all of the virtual instruments that go with it.... there this one... called Vienna... I swear to you it is 500gb of orchestra samples.... purely hi sample rate audio... it's nuts... you running VMware? my buddy does tech work for the City of Miami and he absolutely hates VMware

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delsus

If you want to see the problem page filing has, top out your RAM, and you will notice the symptoms of topped out RAM, 3GB+ RAM you will not notice a slowdown, and it will definatly not increase loading times, and if you have any less than 3GB RAM you should really upgrade.

---

I also agree... damn... I can't make a habit out of this...

At the end of the day... a gamer with high end CPU, GPU, and RAM and an ok HDD is going to see better performance than a gamer with an SSD and mid range CPU, GPU and RAM.... Even any one of those is more important than an SSD....(Ram size more so than actual speeds, which still matter though)

Take an I7 990x, 12GB of DDR3 2000MHz, an ATI Radeon HD 6990 and an Intel or OCZ SSD....
I give this to you... but then I say one (and only one) of the items has to be downgraded....
Either the CPU goes to a core 2 duo....
or the GPU goes to a GTX8800
or the RAM drops to 3gb
or the SSD drops to a 7200RPM 32MB cache drive...

which one do you choose?
point made

I run a I7 laptop 8gb win7 64bit, with only a Nvidia GTS 360m and 7200RPM hd.

The 360m is having a hard time with FF14, especially since I run it full HD through a hdmi cable on a big tele. But I manage to get it smooth enough adjusting the settings to mid and on full HD still looks fine.

The HDD is in use quite often and I seemed to get stuttering out of that everywhere too. I couldn't even play music from Spotify properly in the background because of it.

The I7 isn't doing much with only 20%/30% usage I believe and the mem is never capped out.

So my 360m problems are managed with settings. The rest is good. But I still had to fix my HDD problems. Now I tried a USB stick with readyboost, which kinda helps, but was no holy cure. Then I finally found the fix while tweaking my laptop for audio. And it was a rare find!

My Laptop is also used for recording audio from an external high end sound card & ad/da converter through Firewire. If you want to record audio in high settings like 192khz/32bit and record that to HDD, depending on your system, you will get stutter and these so called drop outs, which you don't want. Scanning professional audio forums I was pointed towards this nice tool:
http://download.cnet.com/LatencyMon/...-75300293.html

Running this tool while doing nothing, or while trying to record audio, or playing some music, all gave some interresting insights in what was causing latency and made my audio stutter and drop out. I noticed this was mostly caused by software/drivers related to my onboard lan port, which was causing huge latency spikes that then caused latency on my 360m and hdd access. This may be a fault in the LAN drivers or hardware. Luck may have it I am on the wireless support of my Laptop, so I simply disabled the LAN port and this fixed my audio recording problems.

Now going back to FF14, my Uld stutter is gone too and I can play audio in the background, alt tab is smooth, generally having a good time. In fact I'm better off in Uld and Grid and surrounding areas now than I am in unpopulated Limsa Lominsa or Bloodshore areas, which are stressing my 360m more, probably because of bigger distances / more details to render by the 360m.

So long story short: Give the latencymon tool a try if you have problems with stuttering. You may find something in your system that is delaying all your other hardware. And seems the FF14 client is the among the more demanding applications to choke on those latency issues if you have them. You may be able to find something and update drivers, remove an app or update specific hardware to get something out of this, but it's worth the look.

To opt : Yes I have felt the general game performance isn't the best and still am aware FF14 is quite heavy on today's hardware. However, with a little research/work I was able to overcome the issues and am able to play quite OK on hardware that isn't that perfectly suited for the game (The 360m graphics).

Still I hate all that tweaking. Hope they do a good job on PS3 or eventually bring it to Xbox360. I'm tired of dealing with PC hardware for games lol :)

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

1) A MMO should not require the consumer to close all applications during gameplay as FFXIV does. FFXIV's client is still not compliant with today's standards of computer operations (it does not play friendly with other system resources). Not only is the client selfish it is also lacking focus which prevents alt tabbing and various other common MMO client features found within games which are nearly a decade older than FFXIV.

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Unless the consumer have subpar hardware to begin with, not everything is programmed for the lowest common denominator, nor should they be. That said, I do agree with your other points.

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

2) The latency issues go hand in hand with the graphical issues. It is commonly known that FFXIV has a horrid client to server delay which effects every aspect of the game. It is most commonly witnessed in the Rank 45 Dungeon Instanced Raids (Into the Dark) where within party members are frequently disconnected from the server nearly every other Raid attempt.

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can't say I've seen this happen personally, I've rarely seen anyone suffering frequent DC in the dungeons, and the few times it happened it was due to ISP problems on the player's side.


On the issues of client and hardware, it's obvious that the client optimization is hardly up to par, but at the same time I think some are placing a bit too much of the blame on the client. There are way too many things that can cause the issues that people have talked about, and not many have provided enough information to really figure out what the problem may be, and I suspect not many have done all that much testing themselves either.

hardware, software and OS configurations and settings, parts selection, cooling system configuration and condition, ambient temperature etc. can all have substantial impact on your system's performance.

I personally haven't really run into much issue with the client myself, and I'm running on a decent, but hardly top of the line system (i7 920 @ 4.0ghz w/ 6gb ram, a 580gtx and a couple SSDs for the OS and games). I run the ff14 client @ 1920x1200, with mostly standard (because higher settings don't really provide any noticable improvements anyway) settings and 4x AA, and for the most part the game stays within 45-60 FPS for me. Hell, sometimes I even run ff14 with multiple instances of eve online clients at the same time with no issue. (all in windowed mode).

can't really say much about a direct comparison between HDD and SSD performance for the game, as I've always had SSDs in this system, but I never experienced any stutter or other notable performance issue with the client on my laptop, which has much less power being a c2d p9500 w/ 4gb and only a 4850m gpu, and no SSD - I just had to run the client in a lower resolution in accordance with the less capable hardware. As far as I can see, the SSDs loads the game and zones a bit faster - when I teleport both clients at the same time, it can take a second or two longer to load on the laptop, but otherwise I see little differences between the two.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

yes... but if you're sharing internet on say a 10mbit connection...
and Another computer is using a bit torrent client... the download could be using 100% of the bandwidth
Also bad ping is bad ping... and if you've got like a 1 second ping to the servers.... you can kiss any type of lag free gameplay goodbye


absolutely not true.... the innermost sectors of an HDD have as little as half the data rate of the outer sectors.. which get written to first....



Yes... when you start the game... it will load faster with an SSD... I'm not denying that....
but faster initial load =/= better performance....
I guess it can be viewed as a performance increase.... in a manner of speaking....



In my profession... I create music... and I've professionally made a few Virtual instruments and sample libraries... in which case, bit rates, data rates and hard drive speeds are paramount in what I do
I disagree with this.... if you have a very old HDD... you can get a modern caviar black AND a CPU for the price of a usable SSD... making it the better upgrade path....



This is actually true... go figure



I can use all 16GB of my machine with one song playing... and all of the virtual instruments that go with it.... there this one... called Vienna... I swear to you it is 500gb of orchestra samples.... purely hi sample rate audio... it's nuts... you running VMware? my buddy does tech work for the City of Miami and he absolutely hates VMware



I also agree... damn... I can't make a habit out of this...

At the end of the day... a gamer with high end CPU, GPU, and RAM and an ok HDD is going to see better performance than a gamer with an SSD and mid range CPU, GPU and RAM.... Even any one of those is more important than an SSD....(Ram size more so than actual speeds, which still matter though)

Take an I7 990x, 12GB of DDR3 2000MHz, an ATI Radeon HD 6990 and an Intel or OCZ SSD....
I give this to you... but then I say one (and only one) of the items has to be downgraded....
Either the CPU goes to a core 2 duo....
or the GPU goes to a GTX8800
or the RAM drops to 3gb
or the SSD drops to a 7200RPM 32MB cache drive...

which one do you choose?
point made

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Yes there is the problem with people downloading, slowing your internet connection down, but I can talk on skype while playing FFXIV and not get a noticable lag increase

And its actually the inner sectors that get written to first, and because the inner sectors are smaller it takes slightly less time for the head to get to the right sectors, but not much more.

We are talking about loading in general not performance character model loading, zoning after a tele etc all need loading, so a SSD will make all those load faster, it takes a very small amount of data to be downloaded for character models, but it needs to load a mass from the HDD, which will be faster with a SSD loading lag =/= general framerate problems.

I can imagine you would use alot of RAM using that software, but the average user only needs 4GB of RAM to run what they usually do.

As for your last comment I would drop the 12GB RAM its just not needed.

I'm so confused, I heard from many that this game can't run sli or xfire... But some of you said that you can or am I misunderstanding? If you can run xfire can someone explain to me how I can do it because I've tried and it doesn't let me for this game. I have a xfx 5970 black edition.

you can, but for xfire the game has to be in fullscreen mode.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Yes there is the problem with people downloading, slowing your internet connection down, but I can talk on skype while playing FFXIV and not get a noticable lag increase

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thats why I always ask what type of internet connection and are you sharing it...

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Originally Posted by Delsus

And its actually the inner sectors that get written to first, and because the inner sectors are smaller it takes slightly less time for the head to get to the right sectors, but not much more.

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Sorry my friend... but the outer sectors get written to first... and due to ZBR they are considerably faster
That is the premise behind Short stroking your hard drive (I swear to God I'm not making this ups, haha)
at the time of format, you generally allocate a partition 1/10th the size of the drive and only use that... making the other 9/10ths unusable, therefore increasing the speed of your HDD... i personally think its pointless... at that point you might as well get an SSD... but the theory is sound

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Delsus

We are talking about loading in general not performance character model loading, zoning after a tele etc all need loading, so a SSD will make all those load faster, it takes a very small amount of data to be downloaded for character models, but it needs to load a mass from the HDD, which will be faster with a SSD loading lag =/= general framerate problems.

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Here is my issue though... Times where that would be a problem, it is more often than not reflected in your frames per second.
SSD's can improve game performance... BUT that performance is reflected in your FPS.
When your GPU can't handle something,.... your FPS definitely drops
When your CPU or HDD can't handle a certain gaming task, your FPS will most probably drop
When your bandwidth is the issue... the frames probably wont drop

So... If someone is getting stuttering above 30 frames per second... there is always a chance it is network related... Could it be hard drive related... possible.. but asking questions about someones network before advising them to spend 300 bucks might just be a good idea... I'm just sayin...

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Originally Posted by Delsus

I can imagine you would use alot of RAM using that software, but the average user only needs 4GB of RAM to run what they usually do.

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I know... I just wanted to tell a cool story

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Delsus

As for your last comment I would drop the 12GB RAM its just not needed.

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You cheated.... i should have never put the RAM in there. I was about to take it out... but honestly I'd drop the SSD over the RAM but I guess it just depends on your usage....
My thing is, without the RAM, without the CPU, without the GPU, there are things you just can't do...
without the SSD, it takes a little longer to load... worst case scenario....

Look, I'm not saying SSD is bad... it has proven benefits over conventional hard drives... the numbers show that SSD is clearly the future
I just think its a personal choice for everyone....
If someone came to me and said I want a gaming machine on a budget...
Even on that budget... I would try to get high end everything... just no SSD

Now if you've got the cash and you want the best of everything... hell yea, I say go SSD... It's just one of the least important components in my opinion....
so if you are building a gaming machine at or under 800... no SSD for you
If money is unlimited... you'd be a fool not to pay 3k for one of those 1tb OCZ PCI express doohickeys

Its just a personal choice figuring out where you fall somewhere in the middle
But I know if someone gets the budget gaming system with like a Phenom X4, Radeon HD 6950, 4GB of DDR3 1333 and a 640gb Western Digital Caviar black (and mobo, ODD, etc.) for under 700 bucks (Without the monitor) and they ask me if not having an SSD will limit what they can play or do... I will tell them no... not at all... not in the slightest

Thank you Rydinand Delsus for you input, i will look into the video card, i have another quick question that might be related, but every so often my computer reboots during play of ffxiv, it only happens once in a while, it actually just happened whiched reminded me of my post here, so i decided to come check to see if my computer is the issue. I dont think it is overheating but im not sure. I dont understand why it only happens every so often. Any help would be great!!
thanks agian

edit= with this Radeon 5870 will i need a new power supply?

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Originally Posted by CK11

Thank you Rydinand Delsus for you input, i will look into the video card, i have another quick question that might be related, but every so often my computer reboots during play of ffxiv, it only happens once in a while, it actually just happened whiched reminded me of my post here, so i decided to come check to see if my computer is the issue. I dont think it is overheating but im not sure. I dont understand why it only happens every so often. Any help would be great!!
thanks agian

edit= with this Radeon 5870 will i need a new power supply?

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You can google Power supply calculator and there is a good one that gets updated regularly called "eXtreme Power Supply Calculator" that lets you put in your system specs and it will give you your peak power draw
adding a 5870... you could squeak by with 500+ but I'd really REALLY recommend having 650 or so of a good tier3 or higher power supply

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rydin

You can google Power supply calculator and there is a good one that gets updated regularly called "eXtreme Power Supply Calculator" that lets you put in your system specs and it will give you your peak power draw
adding a 5870... you could squeak by with 500+ but I'd really REALLY recommend having 650 or so of a good tier3 or higher power supply

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so, do you know what would cause my pc to just reboot like that!?

edit* just and FYI my power supply is 700W

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Originally Posted by CK11

so, do you know what would cause my pc to just reboot like that!?

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Could be heat... could be power supply related...
could be both....
Check your mother board for blown capacitors...
I'd say check your power supply for blown capacitors also... if you are comfortable opening it up....
Monitor your CPU temp and see if it gets very hot right before it restarts....

I can't possibly give a definitive answer over the internet...
But... I have seen blown capacitors cause this type of problem before... Thats where I'd put my money....

You can google images of blown capacitors... once you know what to look for... its pretty easy to check... even a little of the fluid leaking out of the top or any of the capacitors looking puffy will indicate a problem

it is very random when this happens, after it happen today, i logged back on for about 4-5 hours with no issues at all....
i edited my previous post to say that my Power supply is 700w

what would you concider a high temp, it doesnt get much higher than 60c

Is there a way to cool my PC more...i have what looks like 3-4 fans already?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CK11

it is very random when this happens, after it happen today, i logged back on for about 4-5 hours with no issues at all....
i edited my previous post to say that my Power supply is 700w

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thats more than adequate.... as long as it has the proper 6pin or 8pin connectors for whatever GPU you get
I would really check those caps though

PSU is No. one to fail in this game xD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CK11

it is very random when this happens, after it happen today, i logged back on for about 4-5 hours with no issues at all....
i edited my previous post to say that my Power supply is 700w

what would you concider a high temp, it doesnt get much higher than 60c

Is there a way to cool my PC more...i have what looks like 3-4 fans already?

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system instability can be caused by many things. Could be software, could be temperature, could be a myriad of hardware incompatibilities / failures, from memory/cpu/mobo/psu/gpu, the key is to test and isolate the issue.

what's the 60c for? cpu or gpu? what other programs are running along with the game client? when's the last time you cleaned your heatsinks? etc. etc.

This game is really badly optimized no matter how you look at it :)
My laptop has;

2xSSD setup Raid-0,
1.7ghz Core i7,
2xHD4870's 1gb,
6gb 1600MHz DDR3 RAM.

Up until FFXIV i've never had any "trouble" playing any games on maxed settings, games like Witcher2, GTXIV, DAO, DA2 and many more.

i don't exactly have issues running FFXIV but if you compare performace with those listeded above it's way below par. my only real issue is the 1-3ms feeze i get every few seconds, not a major issue but it is a issue.

So i did a few test's to try and narrow down the issues to see if there was a way to tweak somethings my end to improve performance. so first thing i did is found a nice quite spot in the world no mobs, no players just a few rocks and trees. I did this to reduce as much as possible any lag that is related to the server lag issues (same one that makes managing you retainer very painful). to try and keep the tests constant i set everything to standard and 2xMSAA.

what i found is may laptop can run 2 instances of FFXIV on 1 card (both windowed so no Xfire) as well as it does 1 instance on both cards, both tests were averaging the same FPS (30-40). next i reduced the clock speed of both the core and memory of my GPUs it wasn't until and hit the lowest possible clock speeds did i get any drop in FPS.
what this tells me is that although my GPU load at a constant 90-95%, clock speed doesn't seem to be a big factor, at the reduced clock speed i would have expected the GPU load and FPS to reduce significantly. this is very strange so whats with the high load?

next test ultra low settings, everything cranked down to the lowest settings. same tests as above with the same results only difference being the GPU load was 70% ish. so for some reason this game has a high graphics load even in the lowest possible settings this isn't normal behavior for any game. ^^

i have seen many people say they have very few problems graphics wise and it also appears most of those ppl are using Nvidia "hmm now which GPU in in the ps3? that right a Nvidia one" i would love to run similar tests on a Nvidia setup but sadly my Nvidia box is 8k miles away form me.

During the tests above i also restricted my my CPU to 4 cores and 1.2ghz and there was no significant performance reduction at the test location, the same restriction in town however was painfully slow which as expected mean the delay in town is to do more with CPU/HDD/Server speed and not graphics performance.

this game is in dire need of graphical optimization, at least for the ATI users out there.

Yea, My computer runs it fine but the performance is what was bothering me.

I also noticed on inclines, especially when going down, the characters starts to shake really rapidly... what the hell? Its like hes going down infinitely tiny stairs or something... I hope i'm not the only one who has seen this

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Originally Posted by goonMagi

Yea, My computer runs it fine but the performance is what was bothering me.

I also noticed on inclines, especially when going down, the characters starts to shake really rapidly... what the hell? Its like hes going down infinitely tiny stairs or something... I hope i'm not the only one who has seen this

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It happens to everyone. Its very annoying....