is this a common occurrence?

Well I'm glad i had this pep talk with you all. Really helped when i got blamed again today for the team dying repeatedly in the first 2 minutes of stone vigil lol.

Stone Vigil is HARD unless either the tank is fully geared (like i90+) & synced or the healer is. Even better if both are TBH. Even then, if the tank is determined to take on big pulls and you don't have someone using sleep you will probably wipe.

It's a nightmare dungeon and, like Cutter's Cry, is a bit of a shock compared to many of the previous dungeons. I've led full new players through both with success. It takes patience, knowledge & communication but is rewarding.

In regards to the OP's Brayflox run, sounds like there wasn't much you could have done and you have to not take those negatives to heart.

On a general level, I want to offer a perspective that it is important to identify every opportunity for improvement and become better, even if the wipe wasn't your fault. As a healer, you have more ability than anyone else to make the difference in a run, especially when things aren't going well. You have more power to fix other people's mistakes and salvage runs than anyone else. That is actually one of the reasons I like healing. When there is a wipe, I often think back on what more I could have done and learn from it.

Story time: Snowcloak back when it was in EX roulette. Party was a Pally, Dragoon, Ninja, and me as a Scholar. Not a good composition for ginormous pulls, but our tank didn't realize this and proceeded to pull the entire first section up to half the wolves. By the time he stopped pulling more stuff, he was already over half dead and had over a dozen mobs on him.

I stepped up with the most epic healing job I have ever done. I kept him up for over a minute. I used my cooldowns masterfully, spacing them out perfectly without a single point of wasted overhealing. Eventually, however, I ran out of gas. Tank was out of cooldowns too. I spammed Adlo desperately but I quickly realized it was not quite enough. The last 25% of the tank's health probably took a good 10 seconds or so. Some of the mobs were close to dying. Aetherflow had around 15 seconds left for cooldown. Tank went down and everyone else shortly after.

The wipe was clearly the tank's fault for doing too big of a pull, yet I have wondered if I could have saved the run. I don't believe I could have done any better for most of the fight, but in the end, I actually had 3 cooldown abilities left: Fey Covenant, Virus, and Swiftcast. FC would not have helped with all the physical damage. Virus probably was not worth the second or so it would take out of Adlo spam to cast because there were so many enemies. But Swiftcast? Had I swiftcasted an Adlo or Physick, I could have kept the tank up a little longer. Maybe long enough for a mob or two to die, shifting the tank's net HP flow out of negative. With Aetherflow coming back soon after, the battle would have tipped in our favor and we would have won.

A few months later, I found myself in a similar situation of being out of cooldowns on a big pull and needing a little more to keep the tank up. I popped Swiftcast+Adlo and we won that one.

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Originally Posted by skillmatic320

Well I'm glad i had this pep talk with you all. Really helped when i got blamed again today for the team dying repeatedly in the first 2 minutes of stone vigil lol.

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I remember when I first entered Stone vigil as a WAR on opening week, back then WAR was a MUCH weaker tank too (no damage mitigation, building stacks of wrath built up the healing and crit so when you used them it went back to having no healing buff), I think I must of wiped about 10 times getting through it (I even fell for all the traps like the popping ice elementals) Everything in that dungeon hits super hard for a new tank and so many enemies just roam around unless you know where everything is or someone can tell you where everything is, it is almost impossible and no dungeon before it prepares you for such enemies and traps.

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Originally Posted by deos

just leaving this here: TheHiveLeader's Guide to Healing In MMOs

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Instantly favourited and so true.

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Originally Posted by skillmatic320

I hope this isn't what healing is like, because that's the whole reason i stopped maining my tank. I hate how much blame people throw around in this game. Its very discouraging some times.

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Even at level cap you will, sadly, run into the occasional tank who likes to speedrun without a single CD and blames you for not Holying/DoT-spreading for massive dps and keeping him alive at the same time. Luckily they are the minority. The other tanks who started off this way will have usually died enough at the hands of less than god-like healers to know that they're not actually invincible.

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Originally Posted by skillmatic320

Well I'm glad i had this pep talk with you all. Really helped when i got blamed again today for the team dying repeatedly in the first 2 minutes of stone vigil lol.

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Brayflox is the grounds that separate the children from the adults in this game.

Stone Vigil is the grinder.

Anything you can learn about healing in Stone Vigil, use it, because it's only going to get harder from here. If you need to take a moment to reflect upon your own style and see where you can improve upon, take it, and use it for your future adventures.

Here is the very best advice. You are in charge, you can get into groups with out much wait, do something else and eat the penalty for 30 mins. You remember the golden rule of healers. "I don't need to heal &*^%holes" buh bye

Sadly it's a pretty common experience.. When I first started really healing end game, back with the hard mode primals and WP/AK, I had to go talk to a more experienced healer from my FC and ask them if they took as much abuse as i was getting, and they said it was pretty common, it wasn't my lack of skills.
fast forward to "now" and sure as shit it still happens.
doesn;t matter how stupid the other person is, it's still all your fault.

Those are Just tanks that made tanks for fast que's. If someone dies it's easy to blame the healer. I regularly encounter tanks that grab a few adds in the first pull. Then the grab a few the second pull. And then on the third pull they Aggro the first set. Stand still. I start healing. Regen etc. And then they run to the next set with regen and medica on them. When that happens. All the mobs go on YOU no matter what. We wipe. And it's my fault. It feels kinda shit if they blame you for stuff you can't control.. After such things I'll usually stop helping with dpsing. :)

Not all tanks are jerks, but enough are that I rolled a tank so I could always be sure the tank wasn't one. Tanks set the pace of the dungeon. It's really their job to set the pace to one that the healer can keep up with. It's no big deal if they pull more, as long as they don't blame the healer (or the DPS) for their screwup. Wipes happen, whatever. Throwing blame around is the dumbest thing anyone can do. Blame slows down a run more than a wipe does. If someone whines that their precious time was wasted by another player, they're wasting their own precious time by whining.

Proper tank start of dungeon behavior: "Hey, <healer>, is it okay if I go fast?" If no: go slow. Otherwise: do the dungeon in normal fast paced mode. If the healer says yes, but there are new players, explain what you are doing before you do it (example, Dzamael Darkhold: "I'm pulling everything to the back corner of the big room. Don't attack it until we get there."). Also, if there are new players, explain boss mechanics that need to be explained, but not ones that don't (example, second boss of Stone Vigil: "<ranged DPS>, can you take care of cannons? When the dragon appears in front of a cannon, use the cannon asap"). There are new players if anyone says they are new, or you see the first time bonus at the start of the dungeon.

Proper new player start of dungeon behavior: "It's my first time, please go slow." (or: "It's my first time here, but I don't mind if you go fast, just tell me things I need to know." - in this case, do not attack enemies while the tank is pulling them until they stop and are clearly done moving them.)

Proper healer start of dungeon behavior: "Go as fast as you want to." or "Please pull fast." or "Please pull slow."

It annoys me when people ignore these things when people say them, and it drives me crazy when people ignore these things and then blame someone else. Seriously, how hard is it to be polite? :(


tl;dr: Any tank that blames the healer for anything is a bad tank. Period, end of story.

As someone who has mained a tank I've never gone straight to big pulls unless the group asked me to. I don't like to assume others are on board for it and I try to minimize the stress level I'm adding for the healer. Plus I'm still working on mastering my tank so I try to keep the mobs easily manageable for myself. I know I represent a very small population of tanks but this is also the first mmo that I've been so involved in doing dungeons with.

Agree with everyone else. I have a lvl 50 Warrior and Level 31 WHM. As a tank, i do everything i possibly can to make the healers job easier because as a White Mage, i can't stand static tanks who just wear damage. I really enjoy flipping Cleric's Stance on and off and DPS'in half the time, saves a lot of time on the run, but the guy you speak of is a moron. Grains of salt man.

I wouldn't say its exactly common, but you do experience it from time to time.

I usually laugh because its usually the person who's complaining's fault for why what happened happened. Of course, I always own up to my own mistakes.

Tanks not getting out of Dragon's Breath is the largest cause of Wipes on Aiatar. This is having Tanked it, Healed it, Meleed it, and Range DPSed it. Farmed it for glamour gear, and leveled a Main and Two alts through it. Dragon's Breath is able to be stunned but the timing has to be on point and damned near impossible for a Paladin to time since their stun is on the GCD. It will take 1/3rd of a well geared level synced Level 50's Health. It is near 1/2 - 2/3 of an at level tank in in questing gear's health if they get hit. Repeat that over, a Level Synched Healer is struggling, and an at level healer forget it.

If a Tank dies standing in Dragon's breath over and over again, it is their fault they died.

Then there's Level 50s trying to Spirit bond gear for the Materia. Also not your fault. For example.

The last Brayflox I did a Scholar Showed up in a Full Patrician HQ set (i50 crafter set) and Crafting Accessories. I didn't check at first so I thought it was a glamour. I checked after a couple wipes and when an Adloquim Hit me (as a Monk) for Far under what I know it hits at that level. I stopped and mentioned it. He thought it was cool because of Level Sync and Selene (wasn't even trying to pull this off with Eos). He wouldn't change out the gear, finished smooth as butter with a new healer.

Remember kids. Level sync Syncs your Level first, and then it level syncs your gear separately. (If you are going to sneak a Spirit bond piece sneak in one or maybe two but Not your whole damned set!)

and the funny thing is that the difference between his items level and the dungeon level is far too large, he probably didn't even get 1% spiritbond. Not only this "spiritbonding high-lvl-items while being sync'ed in low dungeons" has been removed 4 or 5 patches ago (like a year or so), but the best to spiritbind a full i55 set would be to run an i65 dungeon. Brayflox, in that purpose, is completely useless.

"You ate aoe. The damage is not healable." That is what I tell bad tanks. I had a tank in T13 eating the large megaflare circles and dying then trying to blame me. My response? "You keep eating the megaflare circles. There's nothing I can do about that."

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Originally Posted by PetiteMalFleur

"You ate aoe. The damage is not healable." That is what I tell bad tanks. I had a tank in T13 eating the large megaflare circles and dying then trying to blame me. My response? "You keep eating the megaflare circles. There's nothing I can do about that."

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Esuna can cure many things.

Stupid isn't one of them.

I'm new to this game but I've played other MMOs maining as healers and I have to say that you'll be blamed irregardless of fault. The DPS rarely realize why a tank might suck (unless said tank loses hate on them.) They just see the tank dead and you're supposed to prevent that so you really need to grow a thicker skin and be honest with yourself about how you preformed. If you think to yourself that you did a bad job then think about how to improve that. If you feel you weren't at fault then let the flack roll over you. You'll be able to tell within the first pull or two if the tank is bad once you get enough experience. You don't have to feel like you have something to prove. If they want to kick you be like 'awesome! i can queue up for a decent group then while these guys wipe several more times!'

FFXIV needs to put in a 'why you died' summery thingy like in Warcraft. You can just bust it out and say 'you were standing in bad' if people complain. XD

I haven't read all 3 pages of this but just wanted to say don't take it too personally, people are weird like that. A couple nights ago I played with my friend, we put 2 PS4s in the living room and 2 TVs lol. I did WHM on I forget what I think Halatali or something low and he did his tank which he never plays. He was pretty bad at it taking damage non stop, and wiped a couple times. The other members were an archer/bard and maybe ninja or something melee. I was holding back on curing since it would pull aggro but had to hit it hard at some times to keep him from dying. Anyway EVERY time he would die or whatever he'd practically throw the controller freaking out about how bad the DPS are that they aren't doing their job properly and are making it super hard for him. They seemed to be fine to me, just attacking whatever targets he was. Wasn't going to get into an argument over it though so just agreed, but yeah point is a lot of people never want to accept the blame when it's their fault. I think unless the DPS is pulling or attacking a different target (he didn't have them marked) then it's kind of hard for DPS to be killing the tank.

I used to totally take it personally when the tank would die but most times I find it's due to something else. As sometimes I'll be hitting swiftcast and cure as fast as I can and it just cannot physically keep up, to the point that (when my friend died and blamed me), I knew it wasn't my fault since if he is taking damage faster than I can heal, there's no way I can really do anything differently.

Yeah in Brayflox NM there was this tank that just kept running forward for the last boss AoE and kept getting clipped. It was like they were afraid to turn left or right where it's easy to dodge. The boss won't move by doing so.

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Originally Posted by PetiteMalFleur

"You ate aoe. The damage is not healable." That is what I tell bad tanks. I had a tank in T13 eating the large megaflare circles and dying then trying to blame me. My response? "You keep eating the megaflare circles. There's nothing I can do about that."

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Gotta love that OT, not even DPS make megaflare big circle mistakes. Bad tanks wonder why they can take so much damage with mitigation and still possibly die on the initial large pull in Haukke Manor HM, simply by eating all those AoEs. Never mind everyone is i110 sync'd.

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Originally Posted by technole

Bad tanks wonder why they can take so much damage with mitigation and still possibly die on the initial large pull in Haukke Manor HM, simply by eating all those AoEs. Never mind everyone is i110 sync'd.

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HM HM is my favorite dungeon to tank. I love pulling the entire basement in one pull (all enemies between second and third bosses). A good tank with a decent healer, or a decent tank with a good healer, can do it no problem, and it's super fun! A bad tank...... yeah, not going to happen with all those AoEs. The damage is so high from the giant pull that eating even one AoE can kill you faster than the healer can heal you.

Unfortunately there are always going to be people who take the game a little too seriously.

Luckily for me these occurrences are few and far between, however, I did Hydra the other day as WHM and both healers came under fire because the MT decided to go straight in and start fighting and a majority of the party were doing it first time and still watching cut scenes. Consequently I wasn't quitre ready, the other healers was in a CS and he bit the dirt. He was not happy and started F'ing and blinding at both healers with a "WHERE ARE MY F**KING HEALS????".
I didn't even bother replying, there was no wipe, we finished the instance with no further deaths so he wasn't worth getting upset over.

Just let it slide off your back like water off a duck and remember to not give them any commendations.