STOP the Gil Selling Tells PLEASE!

Oh look, another "please control the markets, SE" under the guise of fighting RMT.

I hope those bots will come to Balmung and destroy the materia market.

Do those Rmts use the "find a friend" in game fonction?

If they do, adding an option for the player to hide himself from it should drasticaly reduce the number of spam we got. If you know someone is looking for you, just turn it off.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Oh look, another "please control the markets, SE" under the guise of fighting RMT.

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That's real cute... Except some ppl really have an issue with the RMT spam. In most cases the only solution offered is filter out a portion of the social media in your game, which is asinine in a game that's geared towards social interaction as its cornerstone.

Not to mention that reducing RMTs market footprint doesn't require hindrances enforced on legit players, I mean I guess you could see it this way if you A) are a purchaser of Gil via rmt or B) profit I some way from the collateral dmg RMT causes in the GAME.

Mocking requests for removal of a games obvious annoyance is just childish. There's so many threads because it's gotten to the point on enough servers where the RMT is exceeded blatant levels of annoying.

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Originally Posted by Fluffya

Do those Rmts use the "find a friend" in game fonction?

If they do, adding an option for the player to hide himself from it should drastically reduce the number of spam we got. If you know someone is looking for you, just turn it off.

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Yes I would love this function. Do the Mods read these. we really need this asap

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

That's real cute... Except some ppl really have an issue with the RMT spam. In most cases the only solution offered is filter out a portion of the social media in your game, which is asinine in a game that's geared towards social interaction as its cornerstone.

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Did you actually read the OP? He didn't offer any suggestions for removing spam. He literally wants SE to control the materia markets because "oh noez undercutters!".

But in accusing me of gilbuying you've actually touched on my biggest problem with these threads. "Oh no, people are making money! Must be RMT!" "Oh no, someone's selling for less than me, must be RMT!" "Oh no, someone won't answer my 174257th tell asking if they're a bot, must be RMT!"

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

I don't see your reason for trying to invalidate what I posted, are you rmt?

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

I guess you could see it this way if you A) are a purchaser of Gil via rmt or B) profit I some way from the collateral dmg RMT causes in the GAME.

Mocking requests for removal of a games obvious annoyance is just childish.

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So is accusing people of being associated with RMT without even the slightest shred of proof.

Argumentum ad hominem isn't the way to conduct a rational discussion.

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

Mocking requests for removal of a games obvious annoyance is just childish. There's so many threads because it's gotten to the point on enough servers where the RMT is exceeded blatant levels of annoying.

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Somebody didn't read the OP's post. Despite the title of the thread, OP is in some altered reality on how economics works. Homeboys criticism was pretty spot on.

OP. First off, making so selling anything in game to a NPC vs on the MB's is 'worth it' =world inflation...whether or not it's being done via RMT's doesn't matter. In 1.0, lets just say, we had some issues with this which is why many items (especially Fish), are priced so dang low. Basically, they already tried your plan...it failed miserably.

Also, you're not preventing the problem with your solution. The bots and RMT would still remain...if anything, your 'solution' makes it easier for them....because now they don't have to wait on someone to buy of MB's or deal with price flux. They can sell (and profit) from their time immediately.

Instead, SE needs to figure out ways to be more proactive in banning and blocking such accounts...THAT's what you should be asking for...because if SE made it harder for them to login,level and do 'business' in the first place, we'd have less influence on the MB's from RMT.

Although to be frank, what MOST players would settle for at this point would just be better /t filters that could capture and block the RMT spam....because my GOD is that annoying.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

Although to be frank, what MOST players would settle for at this point would just be better /t filters that could capture and block the RMT spam....because my GOD is that annoying.

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Funnily enough, these exist, but we can't talk about them on the official forums. SE continues to not respond to any suggestions on this forum, alas. One can only hope they're going to include some improved systems with Heavenswards or something.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Oh look, another "please control the markets, SE" under the guise of fighting RMT.

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Well, the market IS kinda out of hand as it is.

Idc about economics. I'm just supporting the implementation of measures to remove/hinder RMT which apply to the social aspect.

Funny you 3 are trying to gangbang me with accusations of assumption when you're doing the exact same thing. I didn't post anything out of line. Yet someone did post remarks which were more or less suggestive of "stop whining about RMT".

No reason to oppress what I'm saying.

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

Funny you 3 are trying to gangbang me with accusations of assumption when you're doing the exact same thing. I didn't post anything out of line. Yet someone did post remarks which were more or less suggestive of "stop whining about RMT".

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Randomly accusing me of RMT isn't out of line?

I support RMT countermeasures. That's not what the OP asked for. He asked for SE to limit price changes on the market and create new NPC gil sources. (Hint: that won't put a dent in RMT)

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

Idc about economics. I'm just supporting the implementation of measures to remove/hinder RMT which apply to the social aspect.

Funny you 3 are trying to gangbang me with accusations of assumption when you're doing the exact same thing. I didn't post anything out of line. Yet someone did post remarks which were more or less suggestive of "stop whining about RMT".

No reason to oppress what I'm saying.

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I don't think anyone is claiming that RMT isn't a problem. It's a huge problem and SE seem to be ignoring it (to the displeasure of many customers).

But I don't believe the OP's solution would help at all, if anything, it would just make it worse. It would provide yet another stable source of income to the bots by allowing them to sell materia to the vendors for more gil. Which would in turn have more RMT advertisers spamming tells to sell their ill-gotten gil.

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Originally Posted by Mythre

Your not going to get rid of RMT but you can ruin the items that they try to sell to make players pay 20mil for a sky pop item cus they claim bot back in FFXI.
RMT are less prevalent in FFXI than in FFXIV because they changed how the system works. It used to be WAY worse.

I am saying there needs to be a player gil cap of 100mil held at any one time so that's 500mil if you use retainers + pay for 2; total 5. And the trade limit... market board or otherwise... 1 mil only (not including tax). This will limit a lot. The guild chest could have a limit of 100 mil as well.
Next raise the item to npc sell price accordingly.

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I love how literally everything in this Quote is completely Stupid... I love this Thread <3 Thanks for the entertainment guys.

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

Idc about economics. I'm just supporting the implementation of measures to remove/hinder RMT which apply to the social aspect.

Funny you 3 are trying to gangbang me with accusations of assumption when you're doing the exact same thing. I didn't post anything out of line. Yet someone did post remarks which were more or less suggestive of "stop whining about RMT".

No reason to oppress what I'm saying.

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Some of us do care about the economics, though. Destroying the free market in order to combat RMT is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I get that you don't agree with what's being said, but you render your own arguments moot when you accuse people that don't agree with you of either 1) being associated with RMT or 2) profiting somehow from it. It doesn't make people more likely to listen to you when you attempt to discredit people that way.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Randomly accusing me of RMT isn't out of line?

I support RMT countermeasures. That's not what the OP asked for. He asked for SE to limit price changes on the market. (Hint: that won't put a dent in RMT)

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Randomly? Reread Wtf you wrote. Nothing random about it: it straight up reads as QQ cynicism. Why get butt hurt when someone reacts with cynicism? I'm not butt hurt and I don't care either that 3 ppl wasted their time arguing me. It's comical really.

I'm not opposed to ppl making Gil. My wife has no job and makes millions a day in-game because that's her hobby. I understand ppl want and like to make Gil.

What I don't agree with is companies flooding the game with abnormal quantities of items/currency.

Well. I will continue to criticize people that lack even a basic understanding of economic principles and make economy-breaking suggestions. I guess I must be RMT! Nothing random about it indeed.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Some of us do care about the economics, though. Destroying the free market in order to combat RMT is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I get that you don't agree with what's being said, but you render your own arguments moot when you accuse people that don't agree with you of either 1) being associated with RMT or 2) profiting somehow from it. It doesn't make people more likely to listen to you when you attempt to discredit people that way.

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Don't agree? I just played the guy at his own game. You're assuming I didn't read OP by assuming what I was referencing in my initial post. I'm not here talking about changing the market. I'm just chiming in that RMT is wrong and I agree action needs to be taken.

Once again. I replied in the way I did for the same reason homeboy decided to post a smartelic comment. What did I miss the VIP sign up for being able to retort cynicism with cynicism? Lol you can't censor me xD

Someone made a good point earlier. The RMT can easily be handled at the social lvl first without having to implement restrictions/redesigns to trading/makrkets.

Maybe even enforce more low lvl character restrictions like some other mmos have.

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

What I don't agree with is companies flooding the game with abnormal quantities of items/currency.

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Here's the thing about this, Nobody said anybody is not against doing something about RMT. We are just saying that the OP's idea is Darwin award caliber stupid.
Then you jump in defending the OP without thinking about his idea being the complete opposite of what I'm quoting you on right now. Just because he want's to do something about it, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. That's the problem.

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Originally Posted by Haibel

Here's the thing about this, Nobody said anybody is not against doing something about RMT. We are just saying that the OP's idea is Darwin award caliber stupid.
Then you jump in defending the OP without thinking about his idea being the complete opposite of what I'm quoting you on right now. Just because he want's to do something about it, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. That's the problem.

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That would require that I was defending the OP. Which I wasn't. I was defending the stance against RMT spamming /tells and shouts. I'm on topic even if the OP isn't xD

Grounds getting shaky under your feet yo.

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Originally Posted by Haibel

We are just saying that the OP's idea is Darwin award caliber stupid.

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That, and also... reading between the lines... What the OP is really saying is, "SE, protect my source of income."

We see this a lot in the market subforum. Yet another crafter, someone else (Must be RMT, of course) started selling "his" stuff for less and now he wants SE to limit the market by putting a floor in it.

My attitude, bluntly: In a free market, no one is entitled to a profit. If the market's too hot for you, perhaps you need to find a new one. There are crafters that understand this, and are maxed out at 999,999,999 gil. (If you get to this point, move money to a retainer to get around the limit).

This isn't really an RMT thread at all. The OP is just riding the coattails of RMT spam to get visibility, because RMT & RMT spam is a real problem is this game and one many people care about right now. Myself included.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Oh look, another "please control the markets, SE" under the guise of fighting RMT.

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You do realize a)the market is what makes RMT possible
b) RMT has a devastatingly detrimental effect on player markets and overall game economy.

Yes?

But to be honest, SE exerting control over a player ran economy will not thwart RMTs efforts in any way. They will just find a way around them as they always do.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

My attitude, bluntly: In a free market, no one is entitled to a profit. If the market's too hot for you, perhaps you need to find a new one. There are crafters that understand this, and are maxed out at 999,999,999 gil. (If you get to this point, move money to a retainer to get around the limit).

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Right? I've been spiritbonding a lot while I farm Nexus and Zeta light (T4 is awesome for sb'ing i70 stuff, what can I say?). The materia fluctuate from day to day but as long as I make back more than I put into the set, I'm content.

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This isn't really an RMT thread at all. The OP is just riding the coattails of RMT spam to get visibility, because RMT & RMT spam is a real problem is this game and one many people care about right now. Myself included.

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Exactly. None of us want RMT in our game, but killing the free market isn't the way to get rid of them.

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Originally Posted by Havenae

You do realize a)the market is what makes RMT possible
b) RMT has a devastatingly detrimental effect on player markets and overall game economy.

Yes?

But to be honest, SE exerting control over a player ran economy will not thwart RMTs efforts in any way. They will just find a way around them as they always do.

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That's... kind of... exactly his point... >.>

Well market controls won't work. It's going to take social engineering.

The issue isn't what or how RMT are selling, it's the advertising in game that multiples the effects of their trade.

I don't care much about the value shift in product, but the tells are really starting to get on my nerves.

wonder how much rmt would slow if they require you to get to level 5 to trade, make friends and other basic features.

You know...I play on multiple servers...JP and NA...on the JP server I never get an RMT tell. Nor do I ever see them around...and it's next to impossible to make a decent amount of gil because stuff is so damn cheap on the market boards.

When I go to an NA server flooded with RMT, I make a lot more gil. My new char on Excalibur is already sitting at 150k and she just barely got above lvl 20 (to me, 150k is a nice chunk for that level...she doesn't even have her chocobo yet!). Where as, my lvl 50 on Masamune has a super hard time making gil And I have a lvl 50 arm/miner/fisher, 40 btn, 41 wvr, and all my other crafters aren't below lvl 15...Yeah, I may have 2.5 million on Masa, but it took me MONTHS to scrape together that much...I don't think I'll ever get a damn house.

What I'm trying to say is...idk if it's just the server, but it seems a lot easier to make gil on an RMT filled server than it is a non-RMT filled server. That's just my personal experience.

Though...doesn't make the tells any less annoying. My friend who's more regular on Excalibur tells me he has to go in /busy mode to stop it

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Originally Posted by Omni-Vocational_Ryan

wonder how much rmt would slow if they require you to get to level 5 to trade, make friends and other basic features.

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Considering how it only takes like 20 mins to get to lvl 5...I doubt it would be by much.

Materia prices fluctuating is not solely because of RMT. 2.4 introduced crafted 110 gear, while 2.5 introduced crafted 110 accessories. At the launch of both patches there was a huge spike in materia prices because the demand shot way up. Towards the end of 2.4's cycle, the prices were coming back down. Most everyone melded their 110 in the first few weeks and demand lowered.

We are getting towards the end of 2.5's cycle. We are also getting close to an expansion, wherein all this gear will be useless. The demand for materia is going down down down because a) most people who wanted penta-melded gear already did it and b) the people remaining figure it's too close to an expansion to spend millions melding out gear. We are at a stage in the game where people are saving money, not spending it.

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Originally Posted by Aerowaffle

I don't think anyone is claiming that RMT isn't a problem. It's a huge problem and SE seem to be ignoring it (to the displeasure of many customers).

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Well, to be honest, if anyone thinks SE is IGNORING the problem, they haven't been paying attention at all. SE regularly churns out reports of RMT accounts banned and so on and so forth. Just look on the main Lodestone page under "Notices". See all the entries entitled "Actions Taken Against In-Game RMT". There's more than a dozen in the past couple months alone!

More legitimately, some folks are displeased with the presumed (note PRESUMED - none of us know exactly what SE does, and we are not told on purpose; if we know, RMT knows, and can use that info to refine their methods) methods SE is taking to curb RMT, not that they are ignoring the problem (which they clearly aren't, unless you're paranoid enough to suggest that these notices are pure fiction intended to placate the gullible masses). And, to be fair, since the /tell spam is bad and getting worse these folks have a right to be displeased. Many have even submitted suggestions to "fix" the problem, some of which sound sensible to me, some of which sound outright stupid. But even in the case of the sensible-sounding ones, I know I'm no expert; I don't know how they'd affect the game long-term, or how they'd affect the profitability of the game.

Striking a balance between pleasing the players and making a profit is an important thing for a business, after all, and it's just as foolish to assume that a company should be obligated to cater to any customer's whim (customers in general don't fully understand what it takes to run a big business), as it is to assume that a company will coldly take any action that looks even vaguely profitable no matter who it hurts (happy customers are a SIGNIFICANT source of profit).

Do understand, though, that simply because SE doesn't march into the forums to respond at length to every proposed "This will fix RMT for realz!" thread doesn't mean that they're in bed with RMT and allowing them to run rampant on purpose.

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Originally Posted by Omni-Vocational_Ryan

wonder how much rmt would slow if they require you to get to level 5 to trade, make friends and other basic features.

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I don't think that would slow them down at all. I think it takes about fifteen minutes to reach level 5 once you get past the inital unskippable cutscenes? I'm sure RMT could create bots that fully automate that and, in fact, probably already do

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

I don't see your reason for trying to invalidate what I posted, are you rmt?

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Really? Just because my experience is different from yours I am trying to invalidate your experience? Then you compare me to an RMT? Why so hostile? Again I play daily and I dont experience any of what your talking about. Other than the rmt tell I get once an hour and the obvious bots at the crystal in ul'dah. But if you want me to be honest yes, your claims seem exaggerated. As for how many 50s you have my name.. search and find out I have all DOW/DoM lvl 50.. Can rmt can profit from me, it is an obvious no. I never respond I never buy gil so of course they don't hammer me with tells... I could easily be like you and reverse what you have said back onto you. Do you buy gil? Maybe they have your name so they blast you with tells because you bought from them before.. Do I agree with RMT? Of course not. It ruins the game. But I wont exaggerate it to make a point. I never see /shouts ever not even once besides the very beginning in 2.0

If you want the gil spam to stop, tell the assholes on your server that's buying the gil to stop. It's their fault that you're getting spammed with RMT tells. The team dealing with the RMT & bots are only human. It's not a massive team like what Blizzard has for WoW (& even they still have gold spam in tells & chat). The team has to investigate each report to make sure the report is legit and not some entitled twat reporting someone just because.

The only current solution to RMT is play on PC with *cough* and filters enabled.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Well, to be honest, if anyone thinks SE is IGNORING the problem, they haven't been paying attention at all. SE regularly churns out reports of RMT accounts banned and so on and so forth. Just look on the main Lodestone page under "Notices". See all the entries entitled "Actions Taken Against In-Game RMT". There's more than a dozen in the past couple months alone!

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Oh I don't doubt that SE is doing something, but they're still greatly ignoring the problem considering the current presence of RMT on many servers.

And I was curious about the numbers that SE was spitting out. Was this number of bans for the NA servers? All servers? If you look in all the other general threads for the other languages, they have the same data, in exactly the same numbers. So that number of banned accounts is actually spread much thinner then just the NA servers. It's across all servers.

I find it very hard to believe that SE is doing all that they reasonably can to deal with the RMT. When a simple in-game GM watching for bot behavior wouldn't leave these farming bots alone for weeks at a time.

I just want the tells to go away. I get one at least every 10 minutes here on Gilgamesh :/

Updated Top post to simplify meaning.

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Originally Posted by Omni-Vocational_Ryan

wonder how much rmt would slow if they require you to get to level 5 to trade, make friends and other basic features.

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This could be more effective by putting lvl 1 players in an instanced tutorial area to "learn the game"... that is a little bit different for each character, as far as layout goes, so that it is harder to just path to the next quest.

Earlier were posts saying limiting the market, capping sale prices etc.., or making the sale price of items [to] NPCs would screw the economy because it would be like printing money.


lol

Printing money would be the same as giving gil away for nothing.

You still have to farm the item, run the dungeon, and spend hours upon days to even get something worthwhile or break a mil. Even fleece at a NPC sell price of 50g would still take 202 stacks of 99 NQ to break a Mil.

Time to Money.

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Originally Posted by Mythre

Supply and demand works when the system works.
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Free markets exist on a level playing field. This is NOT level.

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Welcome to the real world. Economy works exactly like this. People can sell their items at a fraction of what it's worth to stores, or put it up on Ebay and hope someone else buys it at a reasonable price. It's called supply and demand for a reason, and it's how everything works in the financial world. There is no level playing field because not everyone is contributing to the circulation of these goods in equal number.

If everyone was gathering and crafting, there would be no market for this stuff anyway, so someone somewhere is taking the easier route of paying for it rather than trying to make their own. Doesn't matter if it's materia or items, the same rule applies for both.