What other MMO has done this, and why does SE think it's a good idea?

Yea it seems heavensward will be a continuation of stuff thats happening in the game now. FFXI expansions were always totally different, not continuations. He did say you would need to complete story to get ishgard access, he didnt say anything about jobs or other areas. This is why its not good to speculate on content that isnt out yet. No1 has any idea whats going to be inside ishgard. Theres a good chance you will have to do the story to unlock some of the heavensward dungeons, otherwise they probably wouldnt make sense as a lot of dungeons tie into the story.

Here is my suggestion:

Re-scale all story quests! For example, make Praetorium available at level 44, all 2.1 quests available at level 45, all 2.2 quests available at level 46, all 2.3 quests available at level 47, all 2.4 quests available at level 48, all 2.5 quests available at level 49 and all 2.55 quests available at level 50.

This way players would still need to do the story quest but they'd not suddenly find a massive wall of quests that they must to do progress game. This suggestion would also fix a "problem" (for many it may not be a problem) that is the massive gap of story quests between level 44 (or whatever is the last quest before level 50) and level 50.

Add Cape Westind (no idea why it's not there) and all story quest dungeons to low level or main scenario roulette.

The problem with this suggestion is that they'd have to tune all dungeons/trials that currently are unlocked at level 50.

Who cares? Will take all of what maybe 2 hours at most to do the new quests in 2.55 and you have 3 months to do It.
For those who are new but have a lvl 50 already would take all of a day to go from start to finish.. Again 3 months. For those who start fresh when expansion comes out... New areas will doubtfully be low level at all if not totally 50 plus only so you will start from the beginning as you should. There are no specifics that I have seen that the new race is locked for new players till they get there or that new jobs are locked behind anything but a level just like more than 1 job locked now behind a level barrier.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elmeron

What isn't normal is the weird forcing of people to level classes outside of the one that they chose to roll as their main. No other MMO does that.

---

Yea well "most" MMOs locks you in 1 class/1 character.

The MMOs that allow you to have multiple class per character such as FFXI/FFXIV/PSO2 have cross class/subjob system that adds further improvements to your main class, which requires you to level other classes.

Well, that, and switching classes is AN ADVERTISED FEATURE OF THE GAME. LITERALLY ON THE BACK OF THE BOX. You have to level more than one class anyway (however partially) to get Jobs, which people will yell at you if you don't have them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chihaya

Yea well "most" MMOs locks you in 1 class/1 character.

The MMOs that allow you to have multiple class per character such as FFXI/FFXIV/PSO2 have cross class/subjob system that adds further improvements to your main class, which requires you to level other classes.

---

It should be an option though. Not everyone is an alt/classholic. And to the person who said you "don't have to...," are you joking? Yes, you do have to. Try resurrecting dead people with that long ass cast time in one of the really hard endgame duties... Yah, good luck with that!

To piggy-back on Chihaya, most MMOs don't allow the changing of roles, once you pick it you're stuck with it.

Second XI did lock you out of content until you completed certain things, and a lv30 quest (the crags/promyvion) was a BRUTAL quest that roughly 70% of the player base could not complete until they nerfed the hell out of it (granted this was not until ToA came out 2 years later) so I beg to differ saying that there was a no big lock out. Also to gain access to the new areas in XI required a time consuming task to be completed (roughly 5 hours of grinding item/requirements) to be able to gain access. They didn't just hand out a boat pass to Aht Urhgan, Pso'Xja chips or sub-job quest items ring a bell?

The story mode for XIV is broken into two major categories you have your level progression story which is mainly about the Empire and is named the Umbral Era and then you have the post-lv50 story which they title the Astral Era, there are 184 and 87 missions respectively. While that number seems big it also includes cut-scenes and dialogue in which the game constituted as a separate "mission". The 184 Umbral Era Missions are honestly created as a leveling supplement, wherein you have something else to do between leveling up to 50. The 87 Astral Missions, however I can see would get on someone's nerves if they are trying to access the Ishgard content; HOWEVER, if you are a new player I don't think you would care as much as a let's say a veteran player who has neglected to do the story content (which I don't understand why you would I mean lots of endgame is locked out until missions are completed in the story), so I really don't see a problem with making people do the missions.

If its about alternate characters on an account, now that is a totally different bag o'worms. I personally feel that alternate characters be exempt from having to do the missions again, primarily because my alternates are crafters and gatherers, and I don't want to be locked out of content because my non-combat character can't do the missions. I feel there should be an "account-progression" that will allow the by-passing of that lock so long as at least one character on the account has met the requirements.

Not sure if its common or not but it is the one thing keeping me from buying the expansion because I have not finished main scenario and I don't know when I will. :P

Lol like completing the main story is a daunting task ? Why are people complaining ? Now for future players why wouldn't they want to start from the beginning and for players that already hold a lvl 50 finishing the story should not even take a whole day normally storyline main quest from patches don't even last a couple of hours from release before being completed

Srsly, it doesn't take that long to finish MSQ. And once you've finished the 2.0 story, finishing everything after that is FAST. Admittedly, with how they made i90 gear so much more difficult to get, it can be a little slower than before, but still. 2.1 MSQ can be all done in a few hours. 2.2 MSQ, a few hours. 2.3 MSQ, a few hours. Etc. And this is *conservative* estimates, watching every cutscene, reading all dialogue, etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MStowastiqVahlshdeh

Not sure if its common or not but it is the one thing keeping me from buying the expansion because I have not finished main scenario and I don't know when I will. :P

---

As for this.. um.. you've been registered since November 2011. Did you just never play ARR? How have you not finished the MSQ?

A lot of things in this game were locked behind story progression, there is nothing wrong with that, I assume you got access to chocobo, airships, pretty much all dungeons and more? Well they also came from story progression so this is how it has always been to some degree. I have no problem with how they are doing it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bluevann

I'm talking about the decision of locking Heavensward's content (including access to Ishgard, and likely the jobs that are started there, the surrounding areas... hopefully not Au Ra creation access) behind the huge wall of "MSQ Completion Requirement". Do you think it's a good idea? If so, do you have any other MMO to point at as an example that followed this design and was successful?

---

I doubt that you have to do the whole ARR story for the jobs.
The Coerthas part in the ARR story begin with level 30 (where you go to find Cid's airship) and the jobs NPC would be outside of Ishgard (no class = no guild in a city). The Astrologian as an example would be at the observatory.
Dark Knight and Marchinist can be in Dragonhead and Whitebrim Front. I can imagine that the jobs are locked behind the Stone Vigil mission. This is the point where the Ishgard people (in the outposts) start to trust us.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elmeron

I didn't even comment on Ishgard, and I get that grind is normal in an MMO. What isn't normal is the weird forcing of people to level classes outside of the one that they chose to roll as their main. No other MMO does that.

---

FF XI do this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MStowastiqVahlshdeh

Not sure if its common or not but it is the one thing keeping me from buying the expansion because I have not finished main scenario and I don't know when I will. :P

---

If you can't finish it in 3 months then you probably shouldn't buy it since you have plenty of content you haven't finished. If its "I hate the story and don't want to play it" maybe this isn't the game for you.

The story refines your relationship with Ishgard nobles and high military. If you didn't have that kind of relationship you wouldn't be allowed into ishgard as its common tongue for ishgard npc's with high rank to regard adventurers as unwelcomed. Then you begin doing deeds and the Ishgardians start warming up to you.

What wouldn't make sense is for them to just let you into their sacred and heavily guarded city-state when they go as far as executing nobles on mere suspicion and the word of an inquisitor with no physical or convincing evidence otherwise.

If they already have their hands full fighting traitors within why bring in outsiders that are free to wander with no allegiance?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KaedrianLiang

What wouldn't make sense is for them to just let you into their sacred and heavily guarded city-state when they go as far as executing nobles on mere suspicion and the word of an inquisitor with no physical or convincing evidence otherwise.

---

Evidence was there, but faked. Like the inquisotor was a faked one.

I feel like people are missing an important point here.

Imagine a month into Heavensward an entirely new player joins FFXIV.

He levels and does his main story, and at level 50 he gets to go do the last two dungeons of the main story. Joyous day! Heavensward awaits!

No, wait. First gotta do 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, and then 2.5 before he can set foot in the expansion, probably resulting in being level 51 or 52 (at a guess, none of us know the experience rate yet) and thus completely overleveled for the content once he FINALLY gets to set foot in the expansion. THAT is the problem. The above suggestion of retuning the 40-50 experience was a good one and would cut back on the frustration this will inevitably cause new players.

This isn't about those of us who have played for several months or more already. It's about the NEW players who shouldn't run their heads into a brick wall content-wise while leveling.

SE has always locked content behind story progression, this is not something new, it is how it has always been. They are just continuing to do what have always done so why would you expect that to change? Most dungeons, raids, methods of transport and game features are locked behind story progression and there is no good reason why this should not be the case for expansion too. The whole argument about new players etc, is no different than new players joining from before the expansion as they too had to unlock content and features through main story just like everyone else before the expansion and after it. They don't get a 'skip everything that came before' choice and I see no reason why they should.

So op let me ask you, since you played XI, what about sky and sea? That you conveniently seem to have left out?

You had to progress quite far to get access to these areas lol. And that's just 2 areas you have to work to unlock. There's also the Riviera places, and a few others, that you have to progress in story to be able to go to. So even in ffxi it wasn't entirely different. Also, what the hell are you doing in this game if it's not playing the MS? It's not hard. It's not time consuming.(even for me who does that much Time I've finished it)

I'm way behind in story mode, just got caught up doing other things in the game. I'm not worried about it, had alot to do. Though there are tons of games that if you don't do story mode alot of things are locked out until you do, doesn't seem that uncommon.

I like how you point out rise of the zilart which technically did require you to do the previous story. So you asked what mmo has done this then provided the answer yourself.

Since its heavy storerelated to begin with, I can see it making sense to require having done the previous story. Would have made a lot of sense if other mmos did that more as well, tbh. It can be boring having to do it all several times on an alt tho, I imagine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aeyis

Since its heavy storerelated to begin with, I can see it making sense to require having done the previous story. Would have made a lot of sense if other mmos did that more as well, tbh. It can be boring having to do it all several times on an alt tho, I imagine.

---

FF XIV also isn't heavy Alts focused like the other MMOs. For most players 1 character is enough to level up everything and you have to do the MSQ only once with the character and not for every class/job.

I really don't see how completion of the main scenario in 2.55 is a harsh requirement. How is it harsh? To new players... maybe. It's not like it's actually hard to play through the storyline, at least until you reach the additions in made in 2.5. Those were actually challenging for a change, compared to the cakewalk that is everything else before it. Is it time consuming, yeah I guess it's a lot to a new player just coming into the game because now there's a lot more you'd have to do once you hit level 50 than there was when ARR launched.

But is it a lot? Hmm.. I'd say it's a good amount, it would take anywhere from a day to a few days to finish, possibly up to a week or longer if you play very casually.

For everyone who has been playing since day 1 or even within the last 3 months this is not a harsh requirement at all as we'll likely be caught up on the story requirement no later than April 2nd or 3rd at the latest.

Honestly though, it only make sense. The story is the reason we are even going to Ishgard and the new areas, why would you make a new area available to a player with a new storyline when they have absolutely no idea why they are there in the first place. They don't know what events lead up to going to this new place. You shouldn't be allowed to go into the new area without completing the story up to the point where it makes sense that you are going there, given that area had been blocked the entire time before.

OP talks about how FFXI didn't have requirements like that. Let me explain a little something. The game launched in North America with it's first expansion already included and I darn sure didn't get to play any of those new jobs they added right off the bat. Nope. You still had to level up the jobs that the game launched with, level sub-jobs for those jobs (to be effective), and then once you got a job to level 30 you could start the new job quest you wanted to play as. Just getting to this point took anywhere from 6 months to a year to level those first couple of jobs. You could not level quickly like you can in FFXIV, here you can hit level 30 easily in a day, you could technically hit level 50 in a day as well if you went crazy and spent all your time leveling (and people to help you level).

As far as the rank missions go, some of them were very difficult and required you to group up with other good players to successfully complete. Sometimes this was not an easy thing to accomplish. I was fortunate enough that my server had it's own forums and they were well populated by the server population at the time. That made scheduling times for everyone to get together much easier. That's right, you had to schedule this stuff because often times it took preparation. This stuff all took time, and in general the whole system was a lot harsher than what we have in A Realm Reborn. What might have taken a week to accomplish in XI, takes about a day if not a few hours or less to accomplish in FFXIV. The game's do not compare.

Completing the storyline in this game is nothing compared to the difficulty of other older MMORPGs.

MMOs aside, your telling me ALL cities in ALL games should be accessible from the start. huh?

Nearly every Genre of game that has multiple cities, has some cities that are held behind progression of story.

Also from a LORE standpoint it would just make no sense if you didn't understand why you have access to the city THEN go do main storyline and how you have a huge part of cut-scenes that talk about how and why Ishgard wont give other people access besides Ishgardians.
And if you don't care about LORE, but playing a Final Fantasy game, I am not sure what to say...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NinjaTaru72

So op let me ask you, since you played XI, what about sky and sea? That you conveniently seem to have left out?

You had to progress quite far to get access to these areas lol. And that's just 2 areas you have to work to unlock. There's also the Riviera places, and a few others, that you have to progress in story to be able to go to. So even in ffxi it wasn't entirely different. Also, what the hell are you doing in this game if it's not playing the MS? It's not hard. It's not time consuming.(even for me who does that much Time I've finished it)

---

I dont agree with OP, but his point is sky and sea were not needed to unlock the jobs of the expansion like being able to go to ishgard will likely be.

becoming 50 takes less than one week, maybe 2 if its your first time + completing the story

everyone has still 3+ months time to achieve that, thats rediculous easy and not worth any discussion, lol

You know what would happen if FFXIV didn't lock content behind the Main Scenario Questline? The game would be horribly bland and tasteless because there would be no lore, no story, no plots, just your typical MMO where you grind, grind, grind.

FF games always had an amazing story in them, FFXIV's story might not be great, but at least it's there, it's important and has meaning, unlike 99% of the MMOs out there.

So yeah, I think it's a great idea to lock content behind Main Quests. I mean, what sense would it make that you just up and walked into Ishgard without reason?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by QuinceTaru

I dont agree with OP, but his point is sky and sea were not needed to unlock the jobs of the expansion like being able to go to ishgard will likely be.

---

The restriction of the jobs in the expansion are not locked away behind the main story per se or having access to the locations in the expansion, they are locked behind the prerequisite of owning the expansion and having a character leveled to 30+, they all start in preexisting cities aka Gridania, Ul'dah and Limsa I think. Access to the locations within the expansion are locked behind the story though just like all dungeons, trials and raids are locked behind quests and most of those are locked behind main story quests...similar also to some nations of Limsa, Ul'dah or Gridania are locked behind main story airship travel quest, chocobo riding and becoming part of a GC and more are also story unlocked.

It makes sense, Ishgard's story wouldn't make sense if you ignored A Realm Reborn's story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

The restriction of the jobs in the expansion are not locked away behind the main story per se or having access to the locations in the expansion, they are locked behind the prerequisite of owning the expansion and having a character leveled to 30+, they all start in preexisting cities aka Gridania, Ul'dah and Limsa I think. Access to the locations within the expansion are locked behind the story though just like all dungeons, trials and raids are locked behind quests and most of those are locked behind main story quests...similar also to some nations of Limsa, Ul'dah or Gridania are locked behind main story airship travel quest, chocobo riding and becoming part of a GC and more are also story unlocked.

---

Do you have a link and/or quote for an interview that they will start in other cities, cause we know that at the very least the machinist guild is in Ishgard. Just wondering for my own curiosity, i enjoy the MSQ :)

I'm with the OP and think this will be a problem for the game over the long term if they continue doing expansions in the same way. You really don't want to place any barriers for new players to have to get through that may keep them from playing with their friends. Unless they add some absurd incentives to the old roulettes or make solo versions of the fights newer players are going to have a hard time getting through all of those old duties/trials once everyone is off in Heavensward content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by QuinceTaru

Do you have a link and/or quote for an interview that they will start in other cities, cause we know that at the very least the machinist guild is in Ishgard. Just wondering for my own curiosity, i enjoy the MSQ :)

---

I believe they said they are not creating a new 'starting city' quite a while ago, as such new 'characters' would logically start in the current ones (current starting cities like Gridania, Ul'dah and Limsa) and they said new jobs are unlocked after those characters reach a level requirement just like current jobs do. Take also into account all new expansion zones will be for level 50+ so it would make zero sense to have them be your starting city. New characters will have to start in a starting city as is currently the case so by proxy it means will have to start that new character in an old one, new jobs can be located anywhere after hitting a level requirement on a pre-existing class just like bard job is started in a tree trunk outside of any city.

I am completely certain the new jobs will have their starting NPC's placed outside of expansion zones, given they start at 30 and the expansion zones start around 50+ it would make no sense to have the new jobs start in the expansion zones. What you may find is the job quest line may lead to an expansion zone job guild that covers leveling that job past 50 but the jobs will not start in those new expansion zones of that I can promise you. The jobs will start in an area that ranges anywhere from 1-30, where they end up leading you as you gain levels I do not know but they will not start in Ishgard even if they do end up there after reach job level 50+.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyzern

FF games always had an amazing story in them, FFXIV's story might not be great...

---

Well, to be fair, I think it's a matter of opinion. There were parts of the story I didn't think were very strong while leveling originally from 1 to 50, but there were also some good parts as well.

In my opinion the story they have added after level 50 from 2.1 through 2.5 has been waaaay more interesting and involved. As a whole I am greatly looking forward to the conclusion of the 2.x storyline, that is, if you can technically call it a conclusion. I do believe it will more likely be an ongoing story and rather than ending at 3.0 it will merely continue but shift focus as to make sense with 3.0. We have been heading that way since 2.4 after all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hobostew

I'm with the OP and think this will be a problem for the game over the long term if they continue doing expansions in the same way. You really don't want to place any barriers for new players to have to get through that may keep them from playing with their friends. Unless they add some absurd incentives to the old roulettes or make solo versions of the fights newer players are going to have a hard time getting through all of those old duties/trials once everyone is off in Heavensward content.

---

It won't be that hard when the expansion hits, there will be plenty of new players doing that content to play with and not forgetting the expansion comes with new classes and a new race. While some people might just fantasia their old characters to the new race, or use pre-existing characters to unlock the new jobs...not everyone will so that and a lot might make a new character (I know I will be since the MSQ is a very good way to remove the tediousness of leveling an alt class plus very profitable for that character due to the materia IV rewards later on from MSQ). There will also probably be a new token system and revised old poetics system in place which will have people farming old content to build up those.

Do not forget also they are adding a mercenary system to help with low level dungeons. There is no major reason to worry about new players having to do old low level content between the influx of new players, the addition of new race and jobs, the inevitable change that will happen to the token system plus the addition of the mercenary system to help in lower level dungeons etc. New players will have it easier than ever before in the expansion in terms of doing low level content especially due to the mercenary system on top of all the current methods used to entice old players to help new ones and the influx of new players that is bound to occur to play that old content with.

So I wouldn't worry about that if I was you, at least not at this stage. Also there is not that much merit in saying new players stuck behind old content when want to play with their friends, because logically you must be referring to their friends as high level else they would be playing with them in that low level content anyways. If they had such friends, those friends would be helping them out with old content since high level characters are not restricted from helping and doing old content too in order to help their new player friends. If the high level so called friends are not helping their low level new player friends then those high level players were not friends to begin with.

you realize that when Rise of the Zilart came out that rank 5 in the story missions was as far as you could get at that time right? So by that stance, it is about the same as this game... Also kind of dumb to say xi didnt lock expansions behind content an then proceed to list several instances on where they in fact did lock expansions behind content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DoubleT

you realize that when Rise of the Zilart came out that rank 5 in the story missions was as far as you could get at that time right? So by that stance, it is about the same as this game... Also kind of dumb to say xi didnt lock expansions behind content an then proceed to list several instances on where they in fact did lock expansions behind content.

---

It gave me a great laugh too. Not even sure if the OP realized it or not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by QuinceTaru

I dont agree with OP, but his point is sky and sea were not needed to unlock the jobs of the expansion like being able to go to ishgard will likely be.

---

No, {sky} and {sea} were just themselves heavily locked and guarded behind difficult quests. And failing to gain access to {sky} made it very very difficult to reach level 75 on ANY job, since all the parties were inside the Shrine of Ru'Avitu at the time.

I actually suspect that the jobs will be available outside of Ishgard, to be honest. As someone pointed out, if the only requirement is level 30 on at least one class, then having the quests be in Coerthas Central Highlands makes perfect sense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by QuinceTaru

Do you have a link and/or quote for an interview that they will start in other cities, cause we know that at the very least the machinist guild is in Ishgard. Just wondering for my own curiosity, i enjoy the MSQ :)

---

Is it really in Ishgard or somewhere in Central Highlands? Because jobs don't have guilds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by QuinceTaru

Do you have a link and/or quote for an interview that they will start in other cities, cause we know that at the very least the machinist guild is in Ishgard. Just wondering for my own curiosity, i enjoy the MSQ :)

---

If Ishgard is just a bridge away from a level 30-35 area, I see no problems with the possiblity of all three starting in Ishgard (assuming Lv30 unlock/starting level). They could quite easily gate the Ishgard exits to new areas ala White Tiger Gate in Gridania.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

Do not forget also they are adding a mercenary system to help with low level dungeons..

---

I think that's a completely different thing? The way I understood it is you go in there solo with a squad of NPCs.

It's possible that Ishgard access may be gated via "Before the Dawn" quest purely for people that have pre-ordered. This link is in the preorder section after all.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...82#post2836382
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/a...2&d=1426329252

Once 3.0 hits, it may turn out that Before the Dawn is uncoupled from the whole ARR main story, so that fresh level 50s (or restiction barring access to Isgard are eased so lv30s seeking a new job) can gain access much easier.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by QuinceTaru

Do you have a link and/or quote for an interview that they will start in other cities, cause we know that at the very least the machinist guild is in Ishgard. Just wondering for my own curiosity, i enjoy the MSQ :)

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fenral

He said it during the PAX East livestream. [...] He did also say something about being able to complete the current MS as one of the new Jobs, and I can't imagine that being outside his control as Producer and Director.

---

Must these threads always go in circles?