So DRK will be mp based

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Originally Posted by melflomil

Dark will cross class with MRD, GLA and THM.
So manaward, foresight, provoke, blood bath and flash. I would even go as far as saying that they will get perfect dodge.

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But jobs only get two classes they can cross class with. Why would DRK get 3?

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Originally Posted by Slappah

But jobs only get two classes they can cross class with. Why would DRK get 3?

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I have the same question. I think lots of people are expecting THM to be one of the 2... I highly doubt it though.

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Originally Posted by Slappah

But jobs only get two classes they can cross class with. Why would DRK get 3?

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Current jobs only get 2 cross-classes but are built based on a third "base" class. If the new jobs don't have a base class.... *shrug*

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Originally Posted by Scruffyx

All of the INT and PIE comments are making me laugh. DRK isn't a DPS, why would it get INT? "The power of darkness" is not the same thing as "black magic". PIE is interesting.. we'll have to see if its actually a viable stat to meld. DRK's aren't getting their own gear set outside of AF armor. Tank gear will be GLA/MRD/PLD/WAR/DRK.

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the reason it could get int is with that stat boosted it could mean stronger defences or threat boosting attacks, basically str for them would be int.
pie could also be there secondary stat because they need a bigger mana pool to activate those skills, vit will stay the same i'd imagine though.
of course since there weapon is a greatsword that would suggest str as being a main stat


since drk is a tank class im sure it will share some gear but really it should have ts own armour for its on unique look, but then so should war and pld as well as all other classes. yes I like the convenience of having gear shared but I miss the unique looks for each class. so if they don't go with unique armour they should at least allow unique glams for classes sharing armour. although my guess is that's not easy for them to do given how they set up glams.


as for drk crossing with thm/blm.. why would it.?
anything it needs from that class / job it could have as its own original skills. no need for more cross classes, same goes for pld or war, as it could have ts own provoke based skill so wouldn't need stuff from pld. we shall have to wait and see...

If DRK will rely that much on MP, I'm sure they will have their own methods for recovering MP, like BLM does. I'm sure a PIE stacking tank is the last thing SE had in mind. Sure, NIN in FFXI were tanks even though they weren't intended to be but FFXIV has a much more simple and straight-forward job role system.

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Originally Posted by PenutButter

If DRK will rely that much on MP, I'm sure they will have their own methods for recovering MP, like BLM does. I'm sure a PIE stacking tank is the last thing SE had in mind. Sure, NIN in FFXI were tanks even though they weren't intended to be but FFXIV has a much more simple and straight-forward job role system.

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"There is level above darkness that has stronger actions and skills. It's a new style of tanking that's probably never before seen. You might want to stock up on PIE materia."

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ast_interview/

I really think they should have different armor sets. They already said next level raid getting a item would be easier. So maybe a token system where a clear here you a token to get w piece.

It leaves DRK to have armor that's hugh defense and int and peity that it might need.

So also can mean SMN and blm don't share gear so us SMN not stuck with crappy spell speed

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Originally Posted by Kuroyasha

"You might want to stock up on PIE materia."

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That would explain why PIE materia suddenly skyrocketed...

Magic based tanks are boss.

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Originally Posted by Picori

I really think they should have different armor sets. They already said next level raid getting a item would be easier. So maybe a token system where a clear here you a token to get w piece.

It leaves DRK to have armor that's hugh defense and int and peity that it might need.

So also can mean SMN and blm don't share gear so us SMN not stuck with crappy spell speed

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Still don't see why DRK would use Int. Does NIN use Int for their Mudras? Those count as magic attacks. No, they still draw their damage off of Dex. Using Int to base greatsword damage off of is... well, slightly ridiculous, IMO, so I see absolutely no reason why their magic attacks (provided their Power of Darkness attacks count as magic damage) wouldn't scale off of Str as well.

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

Still don't see why DRK would use Int. Does NIN use Int for their Mudras? Those count as magic attacks. No, they still draw their damage off of Dex. Using Int to base greatsword damage off of is... well, slightly ridiculous, IMO, so I see absolutely no reason why their magic attacks (provided their Power of Darkness attacks count as magic damage) wouldn't scale off of Str as well.

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Well, one could also say that it made no sense that Ninja ended up using Dexterity in the first place when it was a melee class and melee classes all used Strength. They could pull the same move and say Dark Knight uses Intelligence for little more reason than "they felt like it." I would say the main point going against Dark Knight using Intelligence is the fact that Strength, as it stands right now, also affects parry. If they didn't use Strength they would probably want to change the text for Intelligence to state that it affects parry specifically for Dark Knight similar to how they changed the text for Dexterity, but again, it wouldn't be anything they haven't done once already.

It makes perfect sense actually. Fighting with knives and daggers is more about finesse, and very VERY little about physical strength. In a knife fight, the quicker, more accurate knife fighter will beat the physically strong knife fighter, every time. Greatsword on the other hand, is all about great physical strength, and precious little about being smart.

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Originally Posted by Zophar

It makes perfect sense actually. Fighting with knives and daggers is more about finesse, and very VERY little about physical strength. In a knife fight, the quicker, more accurate knife fighter will beat the physically strong knife fighter, every time. Greatsword on the other hand, is all about great physical strength, and precious little about being smart.

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On the contrary, using a two handed weapon required it's wielder to be smarter, they were mainly used for breaking pike formations and got paid double the wage, otherwise they were used like short spears when close to someone. Ironically archery actually relies heavily on strength yet is affected by dex or agility in most games.

And yet, you can still use a great sword without being smart. Try using it effectively without the physical strength required to wield such a heavy weapon. And while your point about the bow does have some merit, not all varieties of bow require the same level of physical strength to draw, while one thing every single bow requires to be used effectively, is a very steady hand.

Using any kind of weapon requires it's wielder to act smarter than the opponent, brute force rarely gets anyone anywhere unless the opponent they are facing is a bad fighter.

Obviously a greatsword requires strength to wield but in order to use it effectively you'd have to be pretty smart with how you go about it, especially if it is heavy.

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Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

On the contrary, using a two handed weapon required it's wielder to be smarter, they were mainly used for breaking pike formations and got paid double the wage, otherwise they were used like short spears when close to someone. Ironically archery actually relies heavily on strength yet is affected by dex or agility in most games.

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They got paid extra because heavy 2H swords were not easy (cheap) to acquire. In addition, they required more training. (also not something anyone would have, in part due to the cost of the swords)

Archery only requires strength for drawing the bow, with just a lot of strength you might be able to shoot far; but you still won't hit anything.
While agility is not an archery related stats in general, I guess it has to do with the type of archery being a combat-heavy movement kind of archery; which would indeed require high agility.

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Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

Using any kind of weapon requires it's wielder to act smarter than the opponent, brute force rarely gets anyone anywhere unless the opponent they are facing is a bad fighter.

Obviously a greatsword requires strength to wield but in order to use it effectively you'd have to be pretty smart with how you go about it, especially if it is heavy.

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A 2H swords greatest strength was it's heavy weight. Because physics. Being smart really had nothing to do with wielding weapons like that.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

A 2H swords greatest strength was it's heavy weight. Because physics. Being smart really had nothing to do with wielding weapons like that.

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My point is that it doesn't matter what weapon you are using it's about outsmarting your opponent in the end, A heavy weapon would be disadvantaged against someone that knows what they're doing. Only weapon raw brute force really applies is a mace or club style weapon as that's exactly what the intent of such weapons were, wounding enemies underneath their armor. And archers don't move, save for those on horses, but when you are actually aiming you yourself would not be running.

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Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

My point is that it doesn't matter what weapon you are using it's about outsmarting your opponent in the end, A heavy weapon would be disadvantaged against someone that knows what they're doing. Only weapon raw brute force really applies is a mace or club style weapon as that's exactly what the intent of such weapons were, wounding enemies underneath their armor. And archers don't move, save for those on horses, but when you are actually aiming you yourself would not be running.

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Those were tactics for large scale or otherwise heavily coordinated battles. Archers in rpgs rarely have the luxury of being protected against melee attacks. (or aoes) In addition, agility is more for speed of drawing + movement, rather then movement alone.

Great Swords are also ''raw brute force'' weapons tho. Not sure where you got the impression they were about finesse.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Those were tactics for large scale or otherwise heavily coordinated battles. Archers in rpgs rarely have the luxury of being protected against melee attacks. (or aoes) In addition, agility is more for speed of drawing + movement, rather then movement alone.

Great Swords are also ''raw brute force'' weapons tho. Not sure where you got the impression they were about finesse.

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I never said they were about finesse but they aren't just mindless hacking weapons either.
You aren't going to just cut right through most people, you would focus more on thrusting in closer distances using the slashing part of the weapon situationally. And my point on archery still stands, you wouldn't move while shooting, it's just inefficient and awkward the exception being horseback archery, You'd most likely carry a back up weapon for melee. (obviously in an rpgs this isn't the case)

If they really want to have INT as the primary damage attribute, they can do that. Maybe normal great swords are about raw brute strength, but perhaps the DRK uses his magic (INT) to empower the greatsword which is where it's real extraordinary strength comes from. I don't think it's a good idea to do it this way, but it's definitely possible.

Anyhow, I also wouldn't be surprised if they straight up made DRK DEX based in order to just change things up. Maybe it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but it would be interesting in that they could draw more heavily on BRD(maybe nin) abilities to get a different mix of things. Would also encourage more NIN/BRD players to have tanks since they can share some of the gear (right side if they want to, much like many tanks will run full or near full right side STR accessories now). There's nothing stopping this from happening if they want to go this route.

Not that I really like either setup, I really enjoy the shared tank armor since it allows me to (currently) switch to PLD without much loss if hallowed is strongly encouraged in a fight. So my preference is definitely STR and all tank armor being DRK/WAR/PLD.

This discussion really reminds me of the ninja being strength argument because the only point against being used is the current game and the only evidence is interviews and historical (previous games). I do not have any ideas or even hints as the evidence is ethereal, just that it is likely that a main stat notion and job specific premiss might be adjusted. So having left side gear and right side accessores might be different stats similar to players adjusting current tanks. But this idea is just as solid as Mechanist weapon dmg being blunt just because besides mnk no one else normally benefits from it. But I still do enjoy seeing the discussions while they last.

It might not be that MP based, it could have Darkness magic functioning as a MP draining stance that opens a variety of special moves. Sort of like an MP version of wrath.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

It might not be that MP based, it could have Darkness magic functioning as a MP draining stance that opens a variety of special moves. Sort of like an MP version of wrath.

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I really do very much like that idea honestly, It would have to be paired with some powerful mp recovery options to maintain for any length of time though. Either way, I am extremely curious to see how it turns out in the end, even if part of me is really afraid it will be Rune Fencer all over again :x

I don't see them being THAT heavily deoendent.
Tanks need Hp. That's a given.
No job is gonna have a friggin greatsword and not need str.
So mana will probably just be a thing we use more often than pld or war but don't necessarily need to pump points into either.

From the convo's and speculations here I am seeing DRK being like WAR but instead of HP it will saok MP. Blodbath = HP drain on WAR, "Similar skill" = MP drain for DRK. A copy paste job, that I don't really want to see, but who knows.

They might have a 1-2-3 damage combo with MP steal and a 1-2-3 aggro building combo with a small amount of HP steal. Going into 'darkness stance' cancels HP & MP steal but reduces incoming damage and opens up various magic abilities.

The stance might not drain MP so much as the magic the job has access to is very MP heavy and the DRK can't get MP back while using it.

*DRK tanking away.
"Oh no, big hit incoming"
*activates dark magic mode, throws up dark shield.
*takes hit like a pro
*DRK uses magic life steal spell to recover some HP
"Oh no, out of MP, best leave dark magic mode so I can regen and steal more."

Sort of like that, but you know, better.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

They might have a 1-2-3 damage combo with MP steal and a 1-2-3 aggro building combo with a small amount of HP steal. Going into 'darkness stance' cancels HP & MP steal but reduces incoming damage and opens up various magic abilities.

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Sounds like it's sort of like PLD is where there's an offenseive and defensive darkness stance. Use MP to either maintain the aura for more damage done or less damage taken, but not both.

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So dark knight will parry enemy attacks with their sword, will it also be dealing magic damage using its HP?
Y: When you activate a technique that the development team has been calling the "dark buff," MP will be consumed, and you'll be surrounded by a dark aura. A dark knight should always be fighting with this effect active. It's also possible to self-buff to increase damage by using the dark aura.

Will it also use magic?
Y: For attacking enemies, there will be both single target and AoE (ranged) magic available. Many people think that MP will be considered important to dark knights, but it will be more important to manage the dark power. However, the source of that power is MP, so in that way, MP is important. By the way, within the dark force, there is a system on another level which will further strengthen actions situationally. Tanking with dark knight is not like anything that we've had before.

With MP being important, the value of piety materia might grow in the future?
Y: Well, I guess there's some possibility it might for the people who are concerned about maximum MP on dark knight.

Are there also abilities which consume HP instead of MP?
Y: We were trying to decide for some time whether we should use HP instead of MP as the source of power for dark knight. We thought that by depleting your HP to enhance your defenses, such as Cecil in FFIV, it would be quite tricky in raids, so we decided to not adopt the idea of utilizing HP. We're still considering what support skills to implement in the future, so adjustments are ongoing.

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http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/125...29-Translation

Ok, sounds like:

• Dark Knight will be buff heavy.
• Buffs costs MP to apply.
• Ranged attacks are MP based.
• Dark Knight actions will change based on which buffs are up. (Sounds like how the active Venom alters Jugulate and Mug)
• Piety may be nice but not necessary for the Dark Knight.

DRK will mostlikely be WAR and PLD hybrid with its own little twist just like those 2 other new jobs, so im not really expecting anything mindblowing when it comes to tanking. Astro has already been kinda confirmed to be a either WHM or SCH depending stance you use that alters your skills same way poisons alters NIN's Jugulate(2 in 1).

Astro also has a card mechanic that allows you to use different buffs, and combine buffs with other buffs, so there is a unique aspect to Astro just as I expect there will be a unique aspect to DRK. I don't think it'll be anything mind blowing, but it'll at least be different than PLD/WAR I imagine.

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Will it also use magic?
Y: For attacking enemies, there will be both single target and AoE (ranged) magic available. Many people think that MP will be considered important to dark knights, but it will be more important to manage the dark power. However, the source of that power is MP, so in that way, MP is important. By the way, within the dark force, there is a system on another level which will further strengthen actions situationally. Tanking with dark knight is not like anything that we've had before.

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This right here makes me think that it will be a Tanking BLM.

Astral - Enmity + Damage (Passive MP usage so you can't use it as a DPS class - i.e. you have to swap to Umbral)

Umbral - MP recovery

Defensive and Offensive skills that use MP and generate Enmity

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So you can sit in Umbral and use Defensive Skill and some low Enmity Skills

But you will have to swap to Astral to "keep" Enmity - but with Limited MP you have to we wary of if you will be able to pop your Big CD's for Defense.

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So this makes me think that it will have both amazing Damage and Defense, but on the flip side, it will have terrible damage/enmity outside of Astral, and will be extremely squishy without using defensive buffs.

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So by stacking Piety you could lengthen your time in the Astral phase while being able to use your arsenal of MP skills, but most likely it will be better to master the timing of each phase.

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Will it also use magic?
Y: For attacking enemies, there will be both single target and AoE (ranged) magic available. Many people think that MP will be considered important to dark knights, but it will be more important to manage the dark power. However, the source of that power is MP, so in that way, MP is important. By the way, within the dark force, there is a system on another level which will further strengthen actions situationally. Tanking with dark knight is not like anything that we've had before.

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IF this is true we can assume that DRK will be similar in that the more "darkness" it has, the stronger it is, similar to wrath stacks for warriors. However I highly doubt that mp will be an extreme issue as I am sure that DRK will have mp regen skills like pld or it may not like warriors and their tp. So its sounds like a more refined Warrior i.e no aoe spamming one move and may actually require more skill like combo splitting and effective cd management to use effectively which I'm all for.

Also the way he worded "within the dark force, there is a system on another level which will further strengthen actions" sounds like an amalgamation of warrior wrath stacks and the monks GL stacks. It sounds like we would be building stacks of some kind and that holding on to it as opposed to how Wrath works where you gain it then use it would be ore beneficial. I get the impression that it will be more like monk's GL and if this is true I'm officially sold on DRK and will be my main in lieu of WAR, which will be my 2nd tank. Sorry PLD but you're cut.

Either way I had thoughts on how DRK would be ever since it was first announced and it sounds very similar to what i had in mind. Though I highly doubt that DRK will have some if not any casting moves since you can't parry/block while casting and that just leaves you open to big hits. As far as a "tanking stance" goes, it will probably be as simple as turning it on to tank or turning it off to dps. I don't think that they would make it more complicated than that given the current direction and the target audience.