I suspect they will handle this by allowing people to skip major steps in a new quest. The better weapon you have will allow for more steps to be skipped.
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02-20-2015, 06:51 AMLadon
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02-23-2015, 06:40 PMAdrian74
I know they have the mania of making all our efforts useless, I know it well... (Relic+1, so, zenith, it's not the same difficulty now that time ago... Atma, animus... Please... Novus, nexus... More of the same... ) Those nerfs alone are for me some kind of hype down already... Imagine to cut down the whole quest process.
If the game progression is just obtain gear, sadly, they should already not be killing it, the effective progression is always similar, doesn't matter the patch, if for obtaining the best gear you have to spend, let's say, 50 hours in the game, (Example), in the next patch it will be 50 hours again, and always the same because they totally kill the previous progress...
I can foresee, sadly, that in the next expansion, someone that joins that first day, has the same chances of obtaining new stuff than me that have been there for a year. In a MMORPG, you can't enter with the mentality of "In a month I'll have same exact gear that those guys that went playing one year :3!" It's just wrong.....
Or am I the wrong? -
02-23-2015, 06:53 PMIllya
WoW-style themepark progression MMOs generally always have gear resets when expansions hit.
If you think about it the other way, the person who joins the first day is probably a new player. New players are good for MMOs, they revitalize populations and keep MMOs from steadily declining until they die. Furthermore WoW has been massively successful because every new expansion brings new players in addition to returning players who might have been un-subbed for a year or longer.
It's completely against the principles of player retention to force them all to do 1 year and 8+ months of old content just to "catch up" with players who have been grinding on the original Relic quest since launch. The new and returning players want to be experiencing the new content, not grinding on old content for weeks or months. Squenix wants to retain new and returning players, not drive them away. That's why WoW resets gear every expansion. It's why FFXIV will have a gear reset when Heavensward is released. Existing Zodiac holders will probably receive a bit of a head start on the new Relic, a pat on the back, and maybe a special title or minion. And they'll get to keep their Zodiacs as vanity weapons. I wouldn't expect more than that unless you enjoy being disappointed. -
02-23-2015, 07:11 PMShiki_Lockhart
This topic again? It is like the 5th or more about same question of relic... before making other go check if exist please.
Does worth starting relic now? Yes. This was already nerfed and you can do it very fast if you want.
Why? If you don't raid or raid it is always better having a weapon 125 than a 115 until you clear T13, specially if you are a DD.
Relic will continue so while you are doubting if you start or not you are wasting your time. If you want do it, if not forget it.
Seems a lot of players are hoping to this not continue. So funny... they will cry again later with the possible new relic for the same reasons (yes I am repeating myself from previous topics... but is the truth.) -
02-23-2015, 07:12 PMThemisI'm pretty sure he said that raid tier weapons will be the best to begin with, with the relic upgrade following behind it. The relic only becomes at least close to best towards the end of the highest raid tier being relevant. We're getting to that point now and with 2.51, the Zodiac weapons will be "at least close to best" depending on how it the stats are allocated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukiko
The same happened when Nexus was added; High Allagan was the best weapon in 2.2, with Novus being very close behind (if spec'd properly), and when Nexus was added during 2.3x, the relic was the best weapon (or at least very close to best).
The only time where this wasn't the case was back when both Allagan and Relic +1 (Zenith) were i90 and there wasn't much difference between the two. That is why SE raised the item level of Allagan weapons to i95; to ensure that they were the better weapons (and thus had gave incentive to collect). The Atma/Animus stages weren't added until after 2.2 when the max item level was raised, and this relic/coil weapon thing became something.
Relic will always be behind raid tier weapons until a certain time after that content becomes less relevant (i.e. the average item level of players is closer to the item level of the raid equipment). -
02-23-2015, 10:54 PMDeathscythe343They have only mentioned that the relic will continue in patch 3.1. And that players whom have the current relic completed will be rewarded in some fashion. That's it. There has been nothing so far that would suggest that the 3.1 relic will be a direct continuation from the current line.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiki_Lockhart
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02-23-2015, 11:33 PMmelflomilConsidering that from lvl 49 to lvl 50 is 500k exp. and before that 48 to 49 is 450k. I would bet that 50 to 51 will be around 550k to 700k and 59 to 60 will be at least a million. As long as the exp grind isn't like chocobos (12 million expat rank 12 is stupid) I'll be fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyce
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02-24-2015, 01:36 AMTanthalus
I've seen a lot of people on here defining what the relic quest is for and to add my 2 cents I haven't really seen anyone look at the big picture here.
The relic quest is designed simply to keep players in content they would otherwise be done with. That's it! Your relic is a gift for you to keep working on so that you keep running dungeon content so that new players will have reasonable que times. Anyone who feels at a major loss for their time devotion should give up their sub and move on because this trend will continue on to the next xpac and so on and so on. It makes perfect logical sense for the devs to add these things and makes sense for us to utilize them but since their not a requirement to play the game it's of no consequence if they move forward and leave the old relics behind. -
02-24-2015, 02:25 AMFated
A lot of poor souls in this topic unfamiliar with how the modern MMORPG expansion works :/.
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02-24-2015, 03:48 AMCraiger
The expansion is coming out very soon, and there is still going to be people working for the next Relic step for a while... I doubt they would make that progress useless for those people.
I have Zodiac, and I plan on grinding the next step as fast as I can, so I'm pretty sure I will have plenty of use for the weapon before the expansion, I know many who are still working on light farm or the dungeon drops from Zodiac part though... either on their main, or their alt(s). And the current Zodiac step came out like 3 months ago...
Fast forward another 3 months, and it's the end of May... Which should be just before the expansion, or even after it.
Like others have mentioned, they have confirmed they are working on something to make it worth it. That does pretty much confirm that you don't need to go through the current relic line to get the new weapons in 3.0 though...
I really hope it's some kind of shortcut for next relic weapons. -
02-24-2015, 04:02 AMZfz
In the interview, this is what was said:
Q: How will the Zodiac Weapon story develop in the future? What's its position in Heavensward?
A: Up to now, players have worked very hard on the Zodiac Weapon story, therefore we do want to avoid saying, "okay please forget everything you did". In Heavensward, because the character level cap is being raised, adventurers would be able to experience further growth themselves, and we would like players to aim at going through new content and obtaining different items. Now, whether it will be the "Zodiac Weapon story", or whether it will be a successor, we plan to start the game of grow-your-weapon in 3.1 again.
Q: When that happens, are the owners of Zodiac Weapons getting some considerations?
A: Yes, of course.
Q: But before that, in 2.51 the Zodiac Weapon gets another power up.
A: In 2.51 if you complete the ultimate form of the Zodiac Weapon, this will remain your strongest weapon until Heavensward is released, so people should be able to find a lot of use for it.
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TL;DR:
Yoshida specifically avoided concluding whether the ZW itself will end or whether it will be continued, but there will be content like the ZW quests in 3.1. People who own the ZW can expect some benefit (though no mention of what form) when that time comes. And lastly the ultimate form of ZW in 2.51 will be the best weapon in the game until 3.0 release. -
02-24-2015, 04:04 AMFranSearaThank you Craiger. I still wanna know " If relic weapons will be useless, then what weapons will relic users be using then??" No one has ever aswered this question....Quote:
Originally Posted by Craiger
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02-24-2015, 04:07 AMDeathscythe343More than likely tomestone weapons. They seem to be the next in line other than raid weapons.Quote:
Originally Posted by FranSeara
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02-24-2015, 04:14 AMTanthalusYou keep saying "relic users" like it's an exclusive club. If you have lvl 50 job chances are good your in some stage of the relic quest.Quote:
Originally Posted by FranSeara
But your question could be answered from your own experiences...did you have a relic weapon at lvl1? At lvl 15? At 30 or 40?
Nope! When Heavensward comes out you'll get grind gear akin to the level of the dungeon requirements. This is standard MMO fare. At 60 the only thing anyone knows is that SE is planning on doing another grow-your-own weapon thing and that's all that's rolled out from the big man's mouth.
Milling for an answer that will make you more comfortable is like shooting the sky hoping to bring down a cloud. It just ain't gonna happen so you'll have to be patient and read the Letters from the Producer. -
02-24-2015, 04:16 AMCraigerI think you should expect it to be like when you first leveled up to 50, unless they want to change things around...Quote:
Originally Posted by FranSeara
Drops from new dungeons, primals and then later from raid (normal and hard mode).
I doubt they are giving up on the relic idea too... because while the grind annoys many, it really helps keeping people busy in the game, and some people (like me), actually enjoy it, not the grind in it self, but it helps keep the content last longer, and I get a great deal of accomplishment once I finish it.
I'm actually expecting there to be another relic quest waiting for us at level 60 -
02-24-2015, 04:55 AMFluffya
A possibility is that Zodiark weapons could be traded for new base weapons while newcomers will have to do a quest for it.
But its just speculations, we will see once Heavenward begin. :) -
02-24-2015, 05:01 AMFranSearaThen you may have answered my question then, I won't be buying the expansion. Thank you, I'll be leaving now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanthalus
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02-24-2015, 05:05 AMCraigerLol, do you only play because of your current relics?Quote:
Originally Posted by FranSeara
When you're 60 (or even earlier), you will be able to get new relics for your jobs, how is that so different from starting a new step with current relic? -
02-24-2015, 05:30 AMFranSearaI dont feel Vets should have to start over again. Just because of some '"catch up" game being played by the Devs. I've earned my stuff and won't pay to be forced to start over. That's just how I feel. Don't let me ruin you're fun with the expansion. I wish you the best of luck!Quote:
Originally Posted by Craiger
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02-24-2015, 06:28 AMIzsha
Option 1. Relics are continued. New quests added. New grindy steps added. More of the same.
Relic vet: I've hit Lv 60! Yay! Time to start a grindy quest to upgrade my zodiac to 60!
New guy: yay I hit level 60! Time to do...tomestone weapon!
Option 2. Zodiac ends. Heaven relic begins. New quest added. New grindy steps added.
Relic vet: yay I'm Lv 60! Time to start a grindy quest for a heaven relic Lv 60!
New guy: yay I'm Lv 60! Time to start a grindy quest for a heaven relic Lv 60!
What do old relic vets do with new expansion? The next relic quest for a Lv 60 version. If that quest adds an extra glow to your current relic or rewards a different model new weapon doesn't matter. If you relied on relics as weapons in the past you can do the same in the future. Your asking what relic people will do. The next quest. It's really simple.
The people who will actually be affected are people without relics. If they start a fresh line they have a chance to jump in. If they dont, they have to do a crap load of remedial content before they could even start a Lv 60 weapon. Relic vets are good to go no matter what. It's irrelivant to us. The non relic folks are the guys that should be holding their breath and praying.
Vets aren't starti ng over. No matter what happens we will have to do another grindy step. Unless you aski ng for zodiac to get a free upgrade to 60. But that's a whole different discussion. -
02-24-2015, 06:37 AMIllyaLMAOQuote:
Originally Posted by FranSeara
See you in a few months! -
02-24-2015, 06:39 AMFranSearaYou wont,count on it. GDYSQuote:
Originally Posted by Illya
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02-24-2015, 07:13 AMFelisDon't forget option 3Quote:
Originally Posted by Izsha
Option 3. Zodiac ends. Heaven relic begins. New quest added. New grindy steps added.
Relic vet: yay I'm Lv 60! Time to exchange my zodiac lv50 for a heaven relic Lv 60! And then upgrade it to Zenith heaven right away.
New guy: yay I'm Lv 60! Time to start a grindy quest for a heaven relic Lv 60! -
02-24-2015, 07:31 AMaisustrongi have an issue with this frequently appearing statementQuote:
Originally Posted by Adrian74
who the hell is going to have drk relic ready day 1 of heaven?
no one.
it wouldnt make any sense at all to require the 50 relic just to start the 60 relic
this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felis
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02-24-2015, 09:52 AMKadenUlmeI think a lot of people feel unreasonably entitled in these situations. It's a classic case of haves v.s. have nots/other reasonable people. People who have a thing want to rationalize the connotative dissonance between the entitlement they feel for having a thing and other peoples logic and rationale.Quote:
Originally Posted by aisustrong
The resolution of this dissonance is either an understanding and respect of a complex issue and the need for balance and temperance in crafting a solution, or "FINE! I DIDN"T WANT TO PLAY WITH YOU ANYWAY!!!!"
I tend to agree with people who resolve dissonant cognition by recognizing broad perspectives and imagining situations complexly. -
02-24-2015, 10:14 AMDualblade
The way I'm seeing it (though, of course, as speculation): They will either have it where a fully upgraded lvl 50 relic will let you skip the first (very grindy most likely, though I would hope its similar to how relics started out to begin with) step, maybe having to only do the last, or last few, steps in the chain. Thus they would go from a lvl 50 relic to lvl 60 a lot faster than new players/new jobs that start out from the starting step.
Another way could be that, depending on how far in you made it, you would skip a certain amount of steps IE A fully completed one would be the above, while one that was at, say, Nexus, would skip most of the steps but still have a few to go. -
02-24-2015, 10:16 AMStormrider
This community is so weird. I can't think of a better statement. There a few discussions/threads about current amount of subscribers. How do you hope to get new subscribers if you cling to a certain progression model. You guys do want more new players? You do understand how that works?
If they keep the progression either they need to leapfrog new players. Or trivialize the original system to the point most of the people complaining would complain anyways. Enough of us have seen this play out in another game. -
02-24-2015, 11:14 AMSapphic
I'll be happy if we can put our present relics in housing for wall decorations :) Would look funky having them out on display.
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02-24-2015, 11:23 AMSarcasmMisser
Out of curiosity what special consideration were legacy users given when 2.0 launched and everyone only had a short quest chain to get a relic? Is there any reason why it should be any different so we don't throw new players under the bus to nurse the ego of the old guard? New players are the lifeblood of this game.
I recently raised an alt and the sheer backlog of quests just for unlocking something as simple as exdr is overwhelming, if there is no reset to some degree in the expansion it just alienates people who haven't been playing since launch. -
02-24-2015, 12:28 PMKaedrianLianginb4 "killing blow of <raidboss> must be dealt by a zodiak weapon"Quote:
Originally Posted by LineageRazor
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02-24-2015, 02:25 PMIllyaThere will be a reset. Anyone who believes otherwise, well I don't know what to tell them. They can keep believing whatever they want to believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser
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02-24-2015, 03:06 PMKinseykinzQuote:
Originally Posted by Felis
Option 4: You do in fact need to do and finish ALL of the 2.0 relic questlines to get the 3.0 weapon started, but the 2.0 questlines will be signifigantly streamlined/gimped to make this easily done. IE ATMA drop rates will be super-increased, Light farming rates will be further increased, and the key items you need as drops will be 'clear the dungeon one time=drop'.
Basically, as long as SE keeps making it so the 'outdated' portion of the questline is not actually a full-out grind and/or subject to huge amounts of RNG, people should be fine with it. I don't want people to be stuck for months in old 2.0 relic progression, but I think they should have the opportunity to 'grow' their weapon too...and I like the idea that your 'Relic' is basically your 'trusty-go to' we have now. Also, as it's only one of many gear options out there, why not let it be the one piece of gear that represents your growth as a player. -
02-24-2015, 03:44 PMKrr
There will probably be a soft reset with numerous QoL/speed perks for users who have already invested into their finished relic.
That or they'll just super-neuter the 2.0 relic quests like others have said, but that seems like a lazy way ou- oh wait this is S-E's content and reward pacing we're talking about. -
02-24-2015, 04:18 PMSessurea
Not useless. I been using my relic the whole time. What kind of dumb....
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02-26-2015, 07:31 PMAdrian74Am I... The unique one who was really desiring to do the atma farm and animus books and the light farm with the new classes to get used to them? T_T...Quote:
Originally Posted by aisustrong
Do the relic with my NIN was awesome, and being one of the first having it nexus when it was only nexus, despite having not so much time was a show of passion! -
02-26-2015, 07:41 PMAdrian74Thank you very much for this useful information, really needed to find someone from a dev source... Well, it's sad info, but, I guess it's what will happens after all... Already have BLM Zeta and WHM/NIN/MNK/lolDRG's nexus... I guess I'll make those nexus Zodiac Zeta first, or try to have them before the expansion comes to see that 'consolation reward' for the next quest... Hoping it is not something made for only having one. If before expansion I have those already, going SCH next, or perhaps WAR, hm..Quote:
Originally Posted by Zfz
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02-26-2015, 09:12 PMruskie
Well in that interview he never outright states one thing or another. "whether it will be the "Zodiac Weapon story", or whether it will be a successor," Unless that's just mistranslated that to me does not in any way state without a shadow of a doubt that a) we don't continue or b) we continue. So the way I see it both options are still open.
The way I could see it done to please both sides of the argument is:
3.1 new grow quest - initial two steps are basic upgrade(zenith level) and stat customization. This would be your buy in if you haven't been doing Zodiac until now. Those that have atleast a novus go to step 3 while those that have more go to 3+step.
I know it's just my dreaming but it solves both sides of the argument in a decent way. -
02-26-2015, 09:30 PMJim_Berry
In FFXI, it would originally take one year minimum to get a base relic before the game was nerfed. At some point, relics were replaced by Empyrean weapons (and gear). Due to player complaints, Square-Enix created weapon trials for the relics to make them be on par with the Empyrean weapons.
However, another update brought more weapons of equal or higher iLvs. With relic holders calling foul play again, they need to figure out what they want. One second, they complained about gear being dated. Next second after new gear arrive, they complain about the time spent to obtain dated gear.
In any case, the new "relic" quest will be like the Empyrean quests of weapons from FFXI. -
02-27-2015, 02:39 AMAdrian74I would be more than happy if so, the more valuable stuff of my relics, even, if I consider animus, really annoying step to do also, it's the novus one, because the money waste, it took me a lot to maximize and personalize it full the relics I have in further novus steps right now! And I still need to fix the accuracy I put in NIN and lolDRG because not enough Crit and Det materia IV.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruskie
It'd be awesome if new relic has a novus-like step that we can skip by having an-already infused weapon. -
02-27-2015, 12:56 PMThunda_Cat_SMASH
Am I the only one hoping for 2 storylines? As in, one for the current weapon, and another one for the 3.0 introduced weapon? I really want a weapon for my nin and drg, but I'd rather not give up my Scholar and Warrior weapons...