Heavensward jobs! yay...no base class? wth..

Classes have been useless since 1.23 and now you want more of them why?

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Originally Posted by Seif

Classes have been useless since 1.23 and now you want more of them why?

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This. Really hoping they ditch them.

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Originally Posted by Eraqus

Just to reply to those who Said"speak English pls".

We r not at School and even if my English is terrible the point of the thread its clear. And we r discussing no matter how is our grammatic, typing etc.

We r here ro chill, hav fun and confronting each other. So pls trolls go away ^^

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Yet another person who throws "troll" around whenever someone upsets them. Being on the internet is no excuse to making yourself look like you have bad spelling. Want to be taken seriously? Spell properly.

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Originally Posted by Eraqus

Just to reply to those who Said"speak English pls".

We r not at School and even if my English is terrible the point of the thread its clear. And we r discussing no matter how is our grammatic, typing etc.

We r here ro chill, hav fun and confronting each other. So pls trolls go away ^^

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Ah, so you missed the point of what school was for.

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Originally Posted by Meier

Where is the source that current classes will still remain in 3.0? :)

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It is the consequence of being still able to play the game after expansion, by all players that did not buy the expansion. They just will not be able to go in new places ur use new classes. It was in last Q&A session about.

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Originally Posted by Seif

Classes have been useless since 1.23 and now you want more of them why?

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I don't want classes to go away. I want classes to be MADE USEFUL and RELEVANT. This game currently has ten "jobs" when it SHOULD have nineteen. Classes should always have been as useful as jobs; players should need to put serious consideration as to whether to put on that Soul Gem or not. As it stands, the "decision" isn't a decision at all.

The class/job system had a lot of interesting potential: Specialization versus diversification through cross-class skills, multiple jobs branching from a single class, and so on. SE pretty much took a giant dump on that potential practically from the get-go, and by all indications has decided to take the easy way out by leaving it behind.

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Originally Posted by Eraqus

Just to reply to those who Said"speak English pls".

We r not at School and even if my English is terrible the point of the thread its clear. And we r discussing no matter how is our grammatic, typing etc.

We r here ro chill, hav fun and confronting each other. So pls trolls go away ^^

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You're on a forum. Use spell check. Those squiggly red lines aren't trying to be your friend.

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Originally Posted by Seif

Classes have been useless since 1.23 and now you want more of them why?

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I never said I wanted more classes.

I said that Current Classes most likely stay in the game while every new Job from here on out will be Job only that does not require classes.

Really it is not that hard to compute that SE may keep the Current classes, being GLA, THA, ACN, ARC, CNJ, MAR, PUG, ROG, and LNC, remain in FF14 while they continue to make new Jobs that do not require Classes like DK, Mach, and Astro.

Hi Deathscythe343,

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

I know SE has mentioned that they would like to move away from the class > job concept for future jobs. I would like to think that, A)this is because it seems like we already have most classes. They are essentially the base roles one would find in just about any game. B) They might be moving to a job 1 + job 2 = new job format. Which seems interesting.

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Does all this imply moving toward the way it's done in Skyrim? If a Skyrim character can carry a weapon S/he can use it.

I think the best bet, though I doubt this will be done by Heavensward, is to just revamp the base classes into full-fledged jobs of their own. They can share similar bases to their advanced jobs, but develop into something more unique post-30. This way they don't have to redo or gut a whole bunch of lore.

I'd like cross class skills to be revamped though. The restrictions really need to be removed. It's one of the only possibilities for variation we have on our character and it's very Final Fantasy. I really would rather the system be given a chance to shine before everyone considers throwing the Squire out with the bathwater.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I don't want classes to go away. I want classes to be MADE USEFUL and RELEVANT. This game currently has ten "jobs" when it SHOULD have nineteen. Classes should always have been as useful as jobs; players should need to put serious consideration as to whether to put on that Soul Gem or not. As it stands, the "decision" isn't a decision at all.

The class/job system had a lot of interesting potential: Specialization versus diversification through cross-class skills, multiple jobs branching from a single class, and so on. SE pretty much took a giant dump on that potential practically from the get-go, and by all indications has decided to take the easy way out by leaving it behind.

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I totally agree with you. If some low-man / solo content was actually harder and more relevant in the game, actually using classes (bringing your own protect, stoneskin, cure, raise on non-healers) might actually make some sense.

That's the angle the game was taking around 1.21 when jobs were first added. You would sacrifice almost all soloability by losing access to sacrifice (regen) and cures, but you'd get a lot more role/group-oriented abilities (more damage on monk, etc.)

As it is currently in 2.5, you can solo perfectly fine on any job, so there's not much point for classes. I don't have high hopes for the game to turn around and become hard, or for classes to have more of a purpose in the future.

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Originally Posted by Intaki

Yes, because locking the most significant aspects of the entire expansion away from new players is exactly the kind of marketing strategy to really get the sub numbers up.

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Isn't that exactly what WoW did when they added death knight? you couldn't just make one unless you already had a character at 60

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Classes are virtually redundant at this point. They did not turn out to be all that better for solo play as they said they would be.

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The classes are like that because Yoshi p moved from that path, this is a core system of 1.0 you could make pseudo jobs with the class system by mixing skills of all classes, in 1.23 they added jobs and had still lots of skills you could grab but was more balanced, the system worked at that moment, you could see the difference and roles easily and still had a lot of skills to mix to personalize your play style, I don't know why they scrapped that, I don't think im the only one that thought that 2.0 was going to have the same system.

So yeah the system doesn't add anything to the game, there's no way you will switch from monk to pugilist at the moment because you will be loosing lots of very good job skills, so as I said in other posts I wouldn't mind if they got rid of all classes but keeping the cross skills in the same way we have, although is wise to say that you don't start as skillful to be called a paladin so gladiator makes sense in a way, classes can bring new jobs in the same path like a gladiator turning into a job that wields 2 swords with traits that make some of its core skills different in a damage dealer approach and maybe could give more than 5 skills in the job quest so you can switch some of the tanking skills for damage dealing types, so it ends up very different. Same goes for archers turning to rangers instead of bard, etc.

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Originally Posted by Mezlabor

Isn't that exactly what WoW did when they added death knight? you couldn't just make one unless you already had a character at 60

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WoW, by the end of BC, was far beyond the point where they needed new players; and in fact the slight bump WotLK provided proved to be the game's peak population before the start of its present slow decline.

FFXIV on the other hand is in a position where it should really be aggressively trying to make the user experience for entirely new players as great and ensnaring as possible. Advertising three new jobs and then completely forbidding new players from trying out the cool knight class they saw on the box is not a good way to make a strong first impression.

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Originally Posted by Intaki

WoW, by the end of BC, was far beyond the point where they needed new players; and in fact the slight bump WotLK provided proved to be the game's peak population before the start of its present slow decline.

FFXIV on the other hand is in a position where it should really be aggressively trying to make the user experience for entirely new players as great and ensnaring as possible. Advertising three new jobs and then completely forbidding new players from trying out the cool knight class they saw on the box is not a good way to make a strong first impression.

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Well the first impression is not the same for all, in XI you had the starting jobs and you had to level warrior to lvl 30 to unlock Dark Knight and I didn't mind leveling warrior because later was very useful as subjob, you should consider that maybe that job starts in a new area so maybe they want you to be in the point of the story where you know why you have to be there, is not new to MMO's having that kind of lock and its more reasonable in a game where you can be all jobs with the same character.

That's why sucked in WoW.

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Originally Posted by Mezlabor

Isn't that exactly what WoW did when they added death knight? you couldn't just make one unless you already had a character at 60

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Well as I said before Yoshi-P announced during the revealing of both DK, Astro, and Mach that the only lock for them will be to unlock the Armory for your character just like Rogues.

As long players have unlocked their Armory they can obtain DK, Astro, and Mach anytime they want as long they can reach the Job Trainer.

Only issue beyond that is to reach the location where their Job Trainer will be which remains unknown for now.

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Originally Posted by Eraqus

Wt do u think folks?

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I thnk u shd lrn t wrt.

j/k

But joke aside, i think the armory and cross-class-skill systems as they are now were doomed right from the start.

It has been said before, and when you think about how every job can only pick a few skills from 2 predefined classes, its pretty much impossible for SE to allow already existing jobs to get any skills from new classes without causing an imbalance. (i.e. NIN: Not a single existing job can pick any of the NIN cross-class-skills. Why? Because they all already have their 2 predefined classes to choose from. They simply cannot allow MNK and LNC to choose from a 3rd class all of a sudden, while all the other jobs are still stuck with their 2.) And this would only get worse over time.

Personally, i like the idea of cross-class/job-skills (yes, even that you have to "work" and level up other classes/jobs for essential skills), but they need to get rid of classes all together, and better sooner than later. Every job should be able to pick skills from any other job, and the only restriction should be if they can use that skill. (i.e. I personally don't see SE allow WHMs to use Blood for Blood or Provoke, but Mantra or Goad could be nice tools in the hands of a WHM.)

As for the quests/story/lore of the existing classes, i would greatly leave them as they are now, but with the exception that when you hit Lv.30 you cannot advance to Lv.31 (XP get locked at 1 XP before Lv.31) unless you do the job quest and permanently become that job. I'm not exactly sure how to go about people who already leveled a class beyond 31 but didn't do the job-quest (maybe remember their XP, but level-sync them back to 30 until they did the quest). IMO, SE shot themselves in the foot with that armory-system, by not thinking ahead when they had the chance with 2.0.

I dont agree to cross skil each job. I dlnt like that a whm uses mantra simply bcoz thats a peculiar monk\pugilist skill. Y u have to pick it up and use it? Instead SE should add skill tree with more skills and maybe a job lvl system that allows u to grow ur skill as u like with skill points. That would make ppl choose different builds abd so the game its not WE R ALL THE SAME but every1 has his own build. More skills pls, and dont point to cross Class skills. That sounds me like lazyness of SE to create new unique skills For each job.
S

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Originally Posted by Kiara1

I hope they just remove class/job. I think it's so silly that we need to level other classes to get the job crystal.

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That will never happen, and rightly so. The system is already in place and that sort of change would mean an almost total re-write of the current cross-class coding. I'd vote no on that. BUT I do support them adding future classes that do not require a cross class requirement like they are doing here in Heavensward. It'll make it appealing to level those classes also. I'm going to be all over that Astrologen. And i am hoping they consider making a male Astrologyn as well so I do not have to roll a new character (so far speculation is that the new healer will be female only because there are no screenshots available of male astrologyns).

Cmon female only AST is a true trolling act from SE. -.- i think thats impossible...

I want to ask. I have readed that to unlock these classes u must unlock armory system For it and to FIND the npc. LOL this really looks like SE have in fact HIDED them. Cmon ppl u look really worried about. There Will be the relative jobs guilds in ishgard or maybe For AST it Will be placed at that zone South to camp dragon head...how it was called...XD it was really long.

But anyway i doubt the fact that this jobs Will be like SECRET or gender related...cmon pls yoshida noooooo

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Originally Posted by SCUBA_Instr

Hi Deathscythe343,
Does all this imply moving toward the way it's done in Skyrim? If a Skyrim character can carry a weapon S/he can use it.

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Not at all. I like the way the jobs are set up. Just an idea of how we may unlock future jobs. Something like BLM + WAR = DRK for instance. Similar to how we get jobs now. Doing things how they do in skyrim would really make a mess of things.

I honestly don't see the new jobs having other jobs as requirements to unlock. Just don't see it going down that way. Pretty sure all that will be required is that you have bought the expansion and can reach the location of each specific npc that triggers the initial unlock quest.

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Originally Posted by Eraqus

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Only lock is the Armory and and finding the Job Trainer.

Beyond that the Advance/Secret Job is just how to describe them since without a Class to advance from there is most likely no Class Quest to Guide the player to the Mach, Astro, and DK Job Trainer like with the current 9 classes so most new players/new characters will have to find the Job Trainer on their own, help from another players, or by random chance due Job Trainers not having their own special Job marks on the Map and outside a building to say "Hey I'm the Job Trainer!". (unless they see the Designer note for 3.0 release which may spoil the location of Mach, Astro, and DK Job trainer.)

And I suppose I am mildly worried about leveling these new jobs. They are coming out at a time when most people, it seems would be leveling from 50-60. If they do start out at level 1 this means that there will be a very large portion of the player base that will not be around in the areas that players would be starting these new jobs.

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

And I suppose I am mildly worried about leveling these new jobs. They are coming out at a time when most people, it seems would be leveling from 50-60. If they do start out at level 1 this means that there will be a very large portion of the player base that will not be around in the areas that players would be starting these new jobs.

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That both a up and down side to it though.

Up side, there may be a slightly balance of players for low level area queues.

Down side, they may be some issues leveling them due to low population in lower level areas.

Of course then there are the people who will leveling DK, Astro, and/or Mach first before hitting the 3.0 storyline.

Either way through should be a certain level of access to leveling DK, Astro, and/or Mach during 3.0 release anyways with player base split between different contents.

I think its time For SE to giv us more details! I really have a huge hype.

What about reversing the job and class structure. You start as a job and at some point you get class quests that provide crossed skills. Revamp the class structure and rename them in to something less specific like..guardian. example: player now starts as a lvl 1 warrior. Then he unlocks guardian quests and starts getting stuff like flash provoke bloodbath etc. Then he starts leveling paladin from level 1 and and he can start using guardian skills from the get go.

This basically means flash and provoke isnt paladin innate but the cross skills itself can have class conditionals to rrplace traits that the jobs used to have. Example: monk nin and drg all share a classing called assault. It provides invig b4b and internal release to all 3. However the b4b has a tooltip that gives drg the better b4b. While this might mean that some jobs might lose out in the things they had due to the dual nature of their previous cross classes but this could also mean they might get things they didnt have.

This way, a new player drk starting at heavensward will be able to play and acquire necessary tanking skills without ever having to look at the old class system and go ???