Wait as Default on Controllers

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Originally Posted by VoltaAsura

It's an additional button press. I don't understand?

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And not everyone like an additional button press, to us it is an unnecessary hand holding that we do not need. Just put a toggle and everyone is happy.

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Originally Posted by VoltaAsura

It's an additional button press. I don't understand?

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It is an additional button press. Just a measly one more, we know, but for the people that didn't actually need to be kiddyproofed, we're now having to deal with the "Wait" button mess. And I say mess because now, I tend to hit Wait and then I have to pull it back up and mess around with it rather than just have a quick and easy "Commence" the way that I used to. Default to yes would be nice for those who want to set it that way.

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Originally Posted by VoltaAsura

It's an additional button press. I don't understand?

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It's an additional button press every single time, when before you had the ease of a single click. I've played the game for a year pressing a single button to commence, and now I have to press two because other people sometimes, occasionally misclick. It's utterly unnecessary for me, and therefore I want the option to not have to adapt to it. That's all.

What I was hoping this wait button would do is not what it does I really wish se would put in a function that would make the duty finder actually wait like when I zone into mordhona and it takes forever. For me to zone it would actually wait so I don't loose my dungoen que for something I cannot control. That is what they really need to implement not some stupid wait function that doesn't actually work.

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Originally Posted by kidvideo

The L1 & R1 buttons make the Cross Hotbar the active window selections, not the Duty pop screen. When the L1 & R1 buttons are not held, the duty window would become active... the X button was to Confirm & the O button was to Wait.

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That is greatly incorrect ...

First of all - once the DF menu pops up in in the foregraound / active and it WILL take X or O as action for DF window. Plus - if you gather you don't have crossbat up most of the time. Finally - many players use toggle / mixed crossbar mode where you don't hold L2 / R2 to have the bar up and in such case any othe window poping up (including DF) will close / inactivate the crossbar and you'll hit button in the DF instead if you're engaged in battle or any other activity. Either way - adding of the confirmation is well welcomed and I personally have no issues with it to default to wait although I appreciate that some player would like to be able to change the default selectin in settings ...

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Originally Posted by VoltaAsura

It's an additional button press. I don't understand?

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As stated in other posts, when you are out of the room, and most likely have your controller in ONE hand and DF pops you could just press X to confirm or O to wait, but not anymore

I'm actually still hitting X only to realized I've just hit wait...

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Originally Posted by Grekumah

Greetings,

There were instances when players were waiting for a queue to pop and during the wait they were engaged in other activities, such as gathering or crafting. If these players were in the middle of an action and the queue popped, there was a chance that there may be an accidental withdrawal from the queue. To alleviate this issue where players may have cancelled their queue progress after waiting, we added the “Wait” button and chose to make it the default selection.

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Accidental withdrawal? How would that happen? The default setting was set to confirm, not withdraw.

But thanks for finally fixing it. I can't count the number of times I happened to hit the X key just at the moment when the window appeared. There was literally no way to avoid that.

Haha, and people are seriously complaining about it. You guys need to get a life. One more button press, the insanity.

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Originally Posted by EZ5902

As stated in other posts, when you are out of the room, and most likely have your controller in ONE hand and DF pops you could just press X to confirm or O to wait, but not anymore

I'm actually still hitting X only to realized I've just hit wait...

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Are you saying that it's too hard for you to adjust to a new automatic behavior? You just have to do it consciously a few times, after that it's just like before.

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Originally Posted by HONK

Are you saying that it's too hard for you to adjust to a new automatic behavior? You just have to do it consciously a few times, after that it's just like before.

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Yes! We are all finding very very difficult! oh no....

Alas, it seems this topic consists of more and more people that do not prefer it.

I'm one of those people who ALWAYS accidentally canceled. These instances were NEVER DURING GATHERING so the current system is super duper awesome and I haven't messed up the registration since 2.5.
Big thanks and PLEASE leave it as it is.

I'm not going to argue whether or not the addition of the Wait function was the right way to go - but something DID need to be done. The fact that players could unintentionally Commence was a pretty clear design flaw. It's not just Gathering jobs that make use of the X button; you use it to target mobs, for instance, and engage auto-attack. Needless to say, targeting and attacking an enemy is not a rare occurrence in this game - particularly if you're farming FATEs with lots of targets.

Or how about the rarer, but extremely unfun case where you're about to talk to the Repair NPC because all of your gear is broken? Only - nope, you're in a dungeon now, and you might as well be naked...

The fact that the Commence window appeared and immediately became active means that players have a good chance of inadvertently entering an instance before they were ready. While this change may inconvenince folks who would like to select commence while afk, it really was the case that something needed to change.

Now, perhaps a better alternative would have been instead to add a one-second or so delay after the Commence window appears before the Commence and Withdraw options become selectable, while still keeping Commence as the default option. That way, folks sitting on the porcelain throne could still mash accept without going into "wait" mode, and players mashing buttons to select mobs or NPCs will have a moment's grace before they're sucked unwillingly into an instance.

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Originally Posted by HONK

Are you saying that it's too hard for you to adjust to a new automatic behavior? You just have to do it consciously a few times, after that it's just like before.

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Because it's a behavior that we never wanted. We are fine with the commence button as it is, but we understand that some players do like the wait button, so we are just suggesting SE to add a toggle where we can choose which button it default to.

Or better yet fix the commence button itself, if the player is ready and in the right class then just bring us into the instance when we click commence. If the player is not ready either they are crafting, not in the right class, gathering, etc or any other things that make it not possible for them to go into the instance, simply make it so when they click commence it automatically becomes wait instead. This would be a better user interface than the current one, which makes it annoying for some people.

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Originally Posted by HEC-

That is greatly incorrect ...

First of all - once the DF menu pops up in in the foregraound / active and it WILL take X or O as action for DF window. Plus - if you gather you don't have crossbat up most of the time. .

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Not incorrect. I'm not referring to gathering. I'm referring to open world content. On a controller you need to hold the cross bar button to have access to your abilities. If the duty window pops, that window is not active unless you are NOT holding the cross bar button.

Also, if you're crafting or gathering you can't accept a duty... so that's not the reason this "wait as default" was added.

if it pops while your not there then your not realy ready finish your toilet buisness and get back to it!
Having it default wait makes it easyer for most players you know cause when you go to the toilet your not ment to take your pad with you.

Hoping a representative reads this, in case the suggestion hasn't already been made, but is it possible that this wait button that has been added(to essentially bump the duty window off screen temporarily) could be given a new functionality? When I saw it, I had hoped that it was giving an option to deny the duty queue, but instead of cancelling it out entirely, merely pushing yourself back in the queue, buying you a few extra minutes to finish whatever activity you may be in the middle of.

Along with the other comments expressed here, such as an option to set your cursor's default to wait or commence, is it possible for a function such as I described to be looked into? It would be a nice addition to the recent changes to the duty queue, and I'm sure something that most players would use at least once.

I don't really understand, the chances of hitting withdraw are still exactly the same, it's still an accidental right direction and accept button press. It's the very same button combination to accidentally withdraw, so nothing really changes, all it does however is make it so accept is now 2 button presses away. Having the reassign venture option default to cancel is annoying too, I understand exactly why it's like that but it's still annoying if you just send stuff on one type of venture.

Why not just default to Commence? If they are busy, the game would prevent Commence from working in the first place. It's pretty hard to accidentally end up in a duty.

I hope this gets fixed soon. I'm keep hitting wait and then timing out because I thought I hit commence.

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Originally Posted by Rin_Azel

Prior to 2.5, hitting Circle accomplished the same thing that 'Wait' does now. You just had to pop open the duty finder queue window to be able to bring it back up.



If you are fighting something, you probably are holding one of the trigger buttons down.. which makes hitting X activate the crossbar ability, even if the duty finder is up.

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if your using toggle as an option, this is not the case.
it will pop and withdraw you while fighting.
it should default to wait , but changeable in settings.

everyone saying "wait" is ridiculous
should understand not everyone plays the way they do.

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Originally Posted by Logo

if your using toggle as an option, this is not the case.
it will pop and withdraw you while fighting.
it should default to wait , but changeable in settings.

everyone saying "wait" is ridiculous
should understand not everyone plays the way they do.

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http://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/f/54...ffc0_50x50.jpg:

I literally have no idea what you are talking about.

Toggle as an option? Instantly withdrawing you while fighting? (You mean circle would do this?)

What ever way this is I don't know any one who plays like this. Circle, by default, lets you "wait" the DF so you can finish what you are doing.

Not to be overly rude but its really on you as a player if you accidentally commenced a duty. It dings and pops. If that wasn't enough "warning" that's really your fault. I have never accidentally commenced a duty or accidentally withdrew. I don't even know how that's possible honestly. You were either in a different Job/Class and couldn't except the Duty, in a cutscene, shop window etc and can't commence the duty, or you were doing something like gardening or fighting and could easily hit circle (unless you play like Logo I guess?) to put it away until you were ready. No one who is pro-wait option has even really explained HOW they accidentally commence/withdraw. Except for saying they are "mashing X", which is again their fault not the systems (they set up the DF and know what to expect) which only explains accidental commences not accidental withdraws.

This "wait" option is unneeded for many of us, and I would just like the option to make it so I don't hit Wait when I never screw up. I don't care if its there, I just don't want to have to deal with it.

before the update I've accidentally hit withdraw while desynthing more times than i'd like to admit >_>; heck. one time i forgot i was queued...tried to summon my choco (got the warning and stopped) then accidentally hit Wait instantly when i queued.

you don't have to be spamming the button for the queue to appear right as you're pressing the X button. (another example of how this mistake has happened, is pressing the X button to target the nearest monster/NPC, i do it all the time. so that too has messed me up before lol)

I may not do this all the time, for the the times it does happen (usually when queuing for something that takes awhile to get, as a dps) i'm glad that it's there.

I'm not aginst adding a method to change the default though~ so long as the default starts on wait

i honestly don't see the logic here. the default selection for the Commence window was "Commence". the ONLY way, without using virtual mouse, you could/currently can accidentally click "Withdraw" is the to push right on our d-pad then confirm. which can occur in the middle of some other activity/action. but i just don't understand how this "Wait" option makes this any less likely to occur.

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Originally Posted by Grekumah

Greetings,

We appreciate your feedback on the addition of the “Wait” button, I will be sure to forward it onto the devs. For now though, I would like to explain why this feature was added.

There were instances when players were waiting for a queue to pop and during the wait they were engaged in other activities, such as gathering or crafting. If these players were in the middle of an action and the queue popped, there was a chance that there may be an accidental withdrawal from the queue. To alleviate this issue where players may have cancelled their queue progress after waiting, we added the “Wait” button and chose to make it the default selection.

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Why didn't they go with making the pop-up window not steal focus?

If you're interacting with a NPC, or retainer, or marketboard, or gathering node, etc when it pops you are unable to confirm until you disengage, but your clicks now go to the pop-up window instead.

Good god, this is actually an issue with people, LOL :D

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

Not to be overly rude but its really on you as a player if you accidentally commenced a duty. It dings and pops. If that wasn't enough "warning" that's really your fault. I have never accidentally commenced a duty or accidentally withdrew. I don't even know how that's possible honestly. You were either in a different Job/Class and couldn't except the Duty, in a cutscene, shop window etc and can't commence the duty, or you were doing something like gardening or fighting and could easily hit circle (unless you play like Logo I guess?) to put it away until you were ready. No one who is pro-wait option has even really explained HOW they accidentally commence/withdraw. Except for saying they are "mashing X", which is again their fault not the systems (they set up the DF and know what to expect) which only explains accidental commences not accidental withdraws.

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Under the old system, when your duty window pops the "Commence" button is defaulted and is immediately selectable. If you're in the process of pressing X and you don't notice this in time (and while people's recognition time varies from individual to individual, I think we can agree that NO ONE's recognition time is faster than a computer's) you will press X and enter the instance, even if you did not intend to. The fact that this has never happened to you, personally, is simply a matter of your personal good fortune, POSSIBLY coupled with a higher-than-average recognition time - not an indication that that the system was a good one. There's also the delay between your brain telling your thumb to press the button, and your muscles actually getting the job done. This, too, is not an instant process. I realize we're talking about fractions of a second, here, but the computer is STILL faster, by many orders of magnitude. There's PLENTY of space in there for a window to pop up.

And, has been noted, X-mashing is not necessary for this to happen. You just have to tap X once, and if you have the misfortune of having the window pop at just that moment, BAM! you're in, ready or not. The new system fixes this, most thoroughly, though arguably not in the best way.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

And, has been noted, X-mashing is not necessary for this to happen. You just have to tap X once, and if you have the misfortune of having the window pop at just that moment, BAM! you're in, ready or not. The new system fixes [changes] this, most thoroughly, though arguably not in the best way.

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Frankly this is a change to the system that as far as I can tell no one was asking for. Until this thread was created I'd never heard of anyone complaining about accidental commences. If that is a problem for someone then fine, give them the 'OPTION' to default to wait. Don't make EVERYONE do it.

First off, to all of you talking about commencing duty while still on a gathering/crafting job: Trust me, you won't get taken into a dungeon by accident while you're still a botanist or leatherworker. /facepalm

I play this game on PS3/PS4 since (re-)launch, and by now the DF "ding" activates some kind of muscle-memory "Am i ready? >> press X / Am i not? >> press O".

After over a year i can't think of more than 2 occasions where i hit commence but wasn't ready, and those were due to almost broken gear, wich, in turn, was 1. due to my own stupidity and 2. is a thing of the past anyways, since i can repair inside a dungeon now.

So, to get into a dungeon by accident, i would have to already be on the right class/job, wich can only be a battle-class. During fights, when holding R2/L2 (to use actions), it kinda negates the ability to hit "commence". For enemy-targeting i mostly use L2+R1 or R2+L1 (feel free to try it, it works really well). And if it really pops the very second i was trying to talk to an NPC... so what? I will stll be right in front of that NPC when i'm done with the dungeon.

But what does happen to me is: I'm queued for duty while i tidy up a room, are in the kitchen or bathroom and hear that all familiar "ding". Now fast, finish this, wash my hands, run back to my room, jump over my couch, hit X on the controller, yay, made it in time to... oh crap! i just hit hold, now to fumble that window back up, go to "commence" and... too late...

It's all about personal preference. And i would personally prefer the cursor to be on "commence" rather than "hold" by default.


But while on the subject of DF, if they do want to improve something, make it so we can hit commence during a NPC-conversation/cutscene or cancel them. As it is now, we can only completely skip the cutscene/conversation or time out the DF. Sure, most cutscenes we can re-watch, but some we can't, and about all normal NPC-conversations (wich often contain valuable info of the story and can be quite long as well) are lost forever if you skip them.

Oh my love.....

Lemme ask where you want the default at, Withdraw? Accept?

If they defaulted on Withdraw then players will accidentally hit with draw and be forced to make the decision to confirm or not.
If they defaulted on Accept then players would be locked into going into a run forcing them to make a decision to stay or get penalized.

"Don't queue for something if you can do the run?"
"Don't organize items in inventories while queued to prevent accidental accept/withdraw?"
"Make sure you're holding Cross Hotbar triggers to prevent accidental accept/withdraw?"
"Don't craft/gather while queued to prevent accidental accept/withdraw?"

You're asking players the above to cater to this nonsense thread request?

This thread was made from ignorance, Yoshi's team does a lot of dumb stuff in this game that is inconsistent with good game design,
but opting to not lock a player into an unexpected window pop is a good choice and the wait option was duly needed.

My tone in this reply simply comes my shock to see this being an issue at all, and I feel that the question of recent generation gamer's lack discipline.
Feel free to express your feedback as is your right, but the consequence of thoughtless requests deliver responses.... like mine?

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Why didn't they go with making the pop-up window not steal focus?

If you're interacting with a NPC, or retainer, or marketboard, or gathering node, etc when it pops you are unable to confirm until you disengage, but your clicks now go to the pop-up window instead.

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This could also be modified to help assist accidental accept/withdraw, whether to place the window as a backdrop and not a focus, or making it just a notice until selected.

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Originally Posted by MyKotoShi

This thread was made from ignorance.

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If it's ignorant to ask for a QOL change that will give us the option to choose where the default is, then ignorance is bliss. ^^

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Originally Posted by MyKotoShi

"Don't queue for something if you can do the run?"

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Which is something people do, pre-Wait button.

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Originally Posted by MyKotoShi

"Don't organize items in inventories while queued to prevent accidental accept/withdraw?"

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Go for it, but half the time if you're organizing inventories, you're doing it from a retainer window that doesn't accept Duty prompts anyway. So moot.

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Originally Posted by MyKotoShi

"Don't craft/gather while queued to prevent accidental accept/withdraw?"

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As people said, this issue isn't even real since you can't accept even while in the wrong class. As for withdraw, that would've happened anyway.

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Originally Posted by MyKotoShi

This thread was made from ignorance.

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That would imply that we didn't know any better. Ignorance is not the word you're looking for here. It's better to say laziness, which still isn't a good enough reason for you to post here in an attempt to call us names.

Your post really was made because you wanted to listen to yourself put down a QoL some people want. Just like the Wait button was put in for some people, some other people want the default button to be different. As I stated before, not all of us need training wheels for our duty prompts. We just want the old way back or a means to default it back to something similar to the previous, one button click commence or withdraw.

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Originally Posted by HEC-

That is greatly incorrect ...

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Actually I miss-typed the buttons... It's R2 & L2, sorry for the confusion. R2 & L2 take precedence over the duty pop window.

Awww, I was hopping this would make it into the hot fix.

I don't play with a controller...

But couldn't they just gray out the buttons for a few seconds after the duty pops, so that you don't hit Commence/Withdraw on accident? Would alleviate the "accidental confirm/withdraws".

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

I really don't get the whole purpose of it, honestly...

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Try reading the thread and you may actually read why. That's tough I guess so I'll say it again. I controller you can be moving through menus and hit the accept button right as the window pops. This happened dozens of times since launch for me and I've heard others complain about it. The wait feature is there to prevent against misclicks. It's not all about you lazy people queuing from another room. Why is this so hard for people to get? One of my static members did this just last night even we we're to enter the fcob. Window to enter popped as he was moving through a menu and he cancelled the queue.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

I've odd my static members did this just last night even we we're to enter the fcob. Window to enter popped as he was moving through a menu and he cancelled the queue.

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You just undermined your own argument though--if this happened just last night, that means it's still possible to misclick, even with "Wait" as the default. So what is the point of even having Wait? It literally does nothing.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Try reading the thread and you may actually read why.

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If 'you' read this thread you'll notice that it's asking for an option to change the default. Not to change the default for everyone. So... why are you against it?

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Originally Posted by Cutie_McSnuggles

If 'you' read this thread you'll notice that it's asking for an option to change the default. Not to change the default for everyone. So... why are you against it?

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If I could set the default to join, I could set my confirm button to turbo, and put a book on it while I wander off and do whatever else. I would much rather have the default as leave my cursor on what I'm doing already.

I've only had one accidental withdraw ever due to the pop up window. I was turning in multiple ixali quests using the turbo button and moving through the inventory to the turn in items. Window popped up while I was hitting the right arrow and had turbo confirm pressed.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Why didn't they go with making the pop-up window not steal focus?

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This would have been a far better solution. What's more, it would be a solution to a number of different windows in addition to just the DF one. (Like accidentally cancelling a trade because you were typing in chat at the time the trade window popped up, or accidentally accepting a teleport because you were doing something else at the time, or accidentally accepting/declining FC/Party/Friend invites, etc.)

Pop-up windows should only appear and make their notification noise when their event is triggered. You should have to manually switch to that window before it gets controller or keyboard focus. That would fix all these problems more effectively than a "Wait" button.

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Originally Posted by Cutie_McSnuggles

Frankly this is a change to the system that as far as I can tell no one was asking for. Until this thread was created I'd never heard of anyone complaining about accidental commences.

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It's certainly not among the more commonly complained about issues, but I have seen complaints about various issues caused by pop-up windows (including the DF one, as well as the others I mentioned above) stealing focus and taking your next button press or keystroke as if it was a response to the pop-up instead of to whatever you'd been in the middle of doing at the time.

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Originally Posted by Rednight

But while on the subject of DF, if they do want to improve something, make it so we can hit commence during a NPC-conversation/cutscene or cancel them. As it is now, we can only completely skip the cutscene/conversation or time out the DF. Sure, most cutscenes we can re-watch, but some we can't, and about all normal NPC-conversations (wich often contain valuable info of the story and can be quite long as well) are lost forever if you skip them.

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Agreed. This is badly needed. We should be able to cancel conversations in the middle and have any related quests treat the conversation as not having been started. That way we could go back and do the conversation another time when we have time for the whole thing.

I actually like having wait as the default. There's been plenty of times in the past where I've accidentally confirmed because I was about to target something and the duty window pops up. Or the times where I'm fiddling with gear and inventory, same story. It's relatively rare compared to how often I use the x button, but happened often enough to be fairly annoying.

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Originally Posted by sarehptar

You just undermined your own argument though--if this happened just last night, that means it's still possible to misclick, even with "Wait" as the default. So what is the point of even having Wait? It literally does nothing.

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The fcob confirmation window doesn't have wait as a default option, well, not in the standard way. It basically gives you a "yes, enter" and a "no, cancel". No undermining here.

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

The fcob confirmation window doesn't have wait as a default option, well, not in the standard way. It basically gives you a "yes, enter" and a "no, cancel". No undermining here.

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Then why is that person bringing that up as an example here? In that case, it's just totally irrelevant to the situation, which is defaulting to wait in places where defaulting to wait actually happens...